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Wayward Side :
Web cams

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 Bulcy (original poster member #74034) posted at 10:21 AM on Monday, September 19th, 2022

Hi,

I have admitted to using webcams and that I once masturbated to a couple having sex. I of course see using webcams as infidelity and masturbation too. A discussion this morning with BS about the number of sexual partners I have had, I excluded the web cam couple as although I masturbated, I do not see this as a physical act of sex. Therefore I excluded this from my count.

Again, I've not excluded this from my infidelity but do not see it as an act of physical sex. For me this is hand jobs, oral and penetrative. I understand there is a sexual nature to this, but struggle to accept it as physical sex. My thoughts would be if I were a virgin and I went online and masturbated to a web cam couple, would I have lost my virginity?

It is possibly semantics and hey maybe I should accept and not worry. It is something I have fixated on though.

Am I wrong in thinking it's not an act of physical sex?

WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, Jan 21 and 2022

posts: 223   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8755946
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 5:05 PM on Monday, September 19th, 2022

Maybe a better way to look at this is from another angle.

Perhaps it would be best to drop the semantics. Whether it was sex or not, it was participation in sexual behavior with someone outside the M. It's part and parcel of the whole wayward experience.

Was it done in secret? It sounds like it. Keeping secrets like these (ie: malicious secrets that would harm your BS- not talking about your sister getting pregnant and not wanting to share widely, or maybe a surprise bday party for BW) is definitely a NO for recovery.

It's the secret world that us WS's create that is the insidious toxic drag on our M. The little bubble of our A didn't come the first time we kept secrets. I know for mine (and my H's in the most recent case), there became an isolated little special relationship that was "just friends" outside our M. Or the secret fantasy life created to escape the negativity in our M.

Why didn't you share the webcam and masturbation? Likely a shame thing. If you're too ashamed to share, that's something to lean into and SHARE. Shame is the root of my avoidance and fear is a second one. Getting both out into the light is key for developing trust and paving the path to intimacy in the M. If you find yourself ashamed of your behavior, ask for your BW's help in stopping it. She likely doesn't like that you're doing that, but would likely feel safer knowing that you don't like it either.

Creating safety and openness is your first priority right now.

Forget the semantics... focus on the root.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 839   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8756005
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 1:57 AM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2022

Cam sex is different than watching porn. There is a live person(s) on the other end of the camera, and you are touching yourself and telling them what to do, and they are doing much the same. It's about as close to physical sex as you can get without actually touching.

But that's not really the point, is it? Nor is what we think about it. The only opinion that really matters in this particular case is hers, because she's the one being hurt by it. You could call it a ham sandwich if you like, but if it is hurting her... well that's the main point that needs to be addressed.

This is where "read between the lines" comes into play. My wife and I actually had a little tension this weekend. It started out with her wanting to go out and do something, and I wanted to wait and go later. This didn't sit well with her, and she was unhappy about it. Then she mentioned that I gave her a "dirty look" when she asked about going out. Then she told me I didn't acknowledge some changes she made for me lately. And the hits just kept on coming. Eventually, I had to ask her what was going on?

The thing is, she was venting a lot of her frustrations at me, but the things she was venting about were really just minor irritations. Nothing worthy of starting an argument about. This led me to my next thought... the things she was complaining about, weren't the actual problem. The actual problem wasn't being voiced. That's where some empathy and understanding come in.

I can't remember my exact reply to her, but I said something along the lines of, "So, what I'm REALLY hearing you say is that you are feeling unappreciated and also feeling that you are giving more to the relationship than you are getting back." Which was exactly what she was feeling. It was important that we got there, because if I had simply focused on what was being said, it probably would have gotten worse quickly. I would have started to try and appease her by doing what she wanted to even if I didn't, and my face would make it clear that I didn't want to, and then she would feel as if I'm manipulating her by placating her, and placating her would piss her off more, not make her feel heard and cared about. Do you understand what I'm saying? This is a trap most Waywards fall into. We keep trying to "do what makes them happy" and in doing so, showing that we actually only care about ourselves and stopping the negativity towards us, and not actually caring about their feelings and needs. BS's don't need or want you to make them happy. They want honesty, and integrity, and any sign of actual self-respect that you may have. They don't want their asses kissed, they want a relationship, and they want feel that they exist in that relationship.

Your infidelity lasted for so long, involved so many different incidents, and was lied about (and is still facing some TT) so much, that your wife's brain is on high-bullshit-alert at all times. You could say that it is sunny outside, and she'd need to question if it really is sunny, or pouring rain, because she's can't believe a word you say without verifying it, sometimes over and over. She's a detective now. She asks the same questions over and over because she's looking for lies, looking for changing stories, looking for anything inconsistent or unbelievable. She doesn't want to do this, but our brains think otherwise.

Anyway, my advice is, don't get hung up on the details here. The cybersex itself probably wouldn't be such a big deal if nothing else had happened, but that's not the case. It's not what you did, or how you did it, it's just one more reminder that you and she don't even agree on what "cheating" is, and that must make things seem hopeless to her. It's okay that you didn't see it that way at the time... you can't go back and change that so don't waste effort on it. Rather, she needs to hear that you see it NOW. That you regret it now. She needs to feel that you'd actually feel badly about doing it if it happened today. By arguing about the semantics of it, she probably feels that you are protecting yourself. You probably are.

As usual, I want to remind you that, even though it's still hard, you are asking the right questions and making the effort Bulcy. Don't give up, okay? Keep fighting the good fight. Part of how we show our spouses that we really intent to change is by never giving up, no matter what. Do that, and no matter what the outcome, you'll know you did everything you could.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1309   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8756130
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 Bulcy (original poster member #74034) posted at 1:41 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

Thanks for the replies.

I think my fixation was on the "physical". I understand there are different types of infidelity crossing many areas outside of sex or intimacy with another person. Financial infidelity for example. I'm not sure why this invoked such a strong reaction. I was being defensive certainly and minimising in ways.

I see now that no matter what the infidelity or how I view it, it does not really matter. The important thing is how BS sees it.

Defensive behaviour and minimising have been and continue to be a huge problem for me to overcome.

WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, Jan 21 and 2022

posts: 223   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8756502
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