SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BS has had multiple d-days. I've lied and cheated on multiple occasions. My time line has been written so many times while TT'd and protected myself, the affairs and my APs.

BS talked today about the timelines. Lack of empathy came up in conversation. I struggle with empathy in a big way. I have shown little or no remorse for OBS's, APs or anyone associated with my A's. Some might say that I do not owe others any empathy, especially the AP's. My biggest worry is my not doing the work for myself or BS. I've read lots of books and kind of know a fair bit about affairs, I know what I should do. I'm trying to work on myself and fixing my multiple failings, but sometimes I struggle caring...I just feel numb. I see my BS everyday feeling upset, crying and being desperate for me to heal and fix things. Yet there are days I just want to curl up. I've had lots of opportunities to "do the work" and fail. I want to and I need to. I'm breaking relationships with family too. I know I should contact them, but often don't. I don't want to deal with questions or triggers. When they get hurt by this, I care little and focus on me and my own feelings. Same things happen at work.

I've considered that I am (and been called) a sociopath. I've just read an article on 9 traits and I think I have most if not all of them on some level. I have times when I recognise this and feel remorse and empathy for BS. I start doing the work and then things get hard or I start feeling sorry for myself and I crawl back. I assume this needs a clinical diagnosis.

I know I am a danger to people, especially BS. I'm worried that this is something which cannot be fixed, or needs years of therapy..Years I do not have with BS, with whom I'm very much in last chance saloon.

Have any of you experienced this? How did you fight it?

I have another call with counsellor on Tuesday and this is going to be a topic. I'm concerned about the new IC though as she seems to want to focus on moving forwards and even suggested that we look into the relationship to find a reason for my affairs. I was shocked to hear this and did e-mail her after the session with my concern. She said she can and will help me with the whys and hows. She also said she thinks she came at my counselling from the wrong angle. I will give her another try this week, but will certainly share my concern that she is not right when suggesting a problem in the relationship caused the affair.

I'm worried about my lack of empathy to BS and to other people out there. I've not contacted my parents in weeks to avoid questions and to avoid having to think about who I am and what I have done.

Hi, Bulcy. I'm sorry I missed this over the weekend.

Have you considered going ahead to get testing for a clinical diagnosis? This is outside my wheelhouse, but I have to believe that a genuine desire to fix yourself is the most important step.

I'm curious whether you feel like you're playing us here. You've written some great posts to other members. What emotions do you experience while doing that? Is it all outward facing? Do you feel a connection to the OP, or is it more that you're trying to convince yourself by promoting site wisdom to others?

I've considered that I am (and been called) a sociopath.

I worried the same thing about myself at one point (several points really). As suggested, get a diagnosis, but in the meantime, just be aware that many traits attributed to being a sociopath may also be found in other diagnoses. Look up traits of borderline personality disorder. Or an HSP (highly sensitive personality). Or even just someone mildly antisocial. I, and this is just my personal opinion, don't see you as someone with no empathy in general. I see you as someone who struggles with empathy for your spouse, and that empathy (again, just my opinion) is likely broken due to your own shame and the damage done to her. I honestly believe that if you crawl out from under the shame, you'll find your empathy for your wife neatly folded, just where you left it. Look, a person who is buried in shame is incapable of some things. Empathy is one of them. Self-respect, motivation... things that make you feel good about yourself, aren't available either. I get the sense (IMO) that you are likely also experiencing depression. And to that end, please see an IC and get some meds if needed. They can help clear away some of the "noise" and cobwebs in your head which might contribute to holding on to the shame.

Allow yourself some grace to fail, even over and over. You not giving up says a HELL of a lot more about who you are and what you are capable of, than your failures in the moment do. Tell yourself that when you are feeling hopeless. You may be a cheater, you may be lost in shame, but you are NOT A QUITTER and that is something to hang your hat on. The first of many. Someone who never quits can never fail because they are never done trying. That's a positive. That's respectable. That's decent. That's inspiring. See that in yourself. Tell yourself it's okay to like one damn thing about yourself and be proud of it. Be proud. You're trying.

BTW, a sociopath probably wouldn't give a fuck about his state of mind, winning back the love of his wife, or listening to others on the internet. Just sayin.

Have you considered going ahead to get testing for a clinical diagnosis? This is outside my wheelhouse, but I have to believe that a genuine desire to fix yourself is the most important step.

Not in any serious capacity. I mentioned it this week in counselling and it is something we will be looking into further next week. I'm not entirely sure what I will do with the information should a diagnosis prove positive. I don't want to think of anything like this as an excuse. I think it is why I'm resistant to it.

I'm curious whether you feel like you're playing us here. You've written some great posts to other members. What emotions do you experience while doing that? Is it all outward facing? Do you feel a connection to the OP, or is it more that you're trying to convince yourself by promoting site wisdom to others?

Some interesting questions here. When I read the OP, I often do feel a connection with the poster. I see their errors and feel their struggle. I see them making the same errors I did. That for me is something that I've only just realised. I do feel they are errors I made, but in reality they are errors I still make and make a lot of the time. I've focused on the things I feel I'm doing right and only focus on the negative when this is pointed out to me. I assume this is some form of self preservation or a way of making me feel better in the shit storm I've created. So, I guess it's both inward and outward. I've not posted on threads at times when I'm a little more focused on my own failings or my BS's pain as I feel like a hypocrite. It is very hard telling someone to do something that you're struggling to do yourself.

With regards to "playing you". When I first joined the site I did so because I was after answers. Discussions with BS were not going well, because of my lies and omissions, my TT, my anger etc. I came on here to seek advice and unfortunately also answers others have given to their BS which I could use as my own. I did not come with entirely good faith but did see others doing the same and saw them getting a serious 2x4. Then I reached out for help on how to discover my whys, ignoring the advice of get myself fixed first/at the same time. I wanted to have quick answers which would get this mess over and done with. I'm now seeing that this is also not the basis of genuine R. I have to discover my whys myself and by doing the work needed. Advise on here can point me in the right direction, but cannot do the work for me. I sincerely apologise for having had that attitude. Especially given the support given to me.

I offer my opinion on here, and will do more often. Both to help the OP and to help me. I feel that helping others and thinking about their affairs MAY help me in mine. A light bulb moment if you like. I try to point out in my posts that I am not there (not getting it) and that I feel I'm not in a position to offer advice. Also, I will try not to post something which has already been said and try and pass this off as my own. I hope I'm not doing this. I suspect I have posted in the past to help convince myself we're/I@m further down the road to R that we are. Blowing smoke up my own arse maybe?!? This does and should be pointed out by my BS and you guys.

I worried the same thing about myself at one point (several points really). As suggested, get a diagnosis, but in the meantime, just be aware that many traits attributed to being a sociopath may also be found in other diagnoses. Look up traits of borderline personality disorder. Or an HSP (highly sensitive personality). Or even just someone mildly antisocial.

Yes, this rings entirely true to me. My lack of empathy, focus, poor communication etc could be for any reason. As you suggest, it could be anything.

I see you as someone who struggles with empathy for your spouse, and that empathy (again, just my opinion) is likely broken due to your own shame and the damage done to her. I honestly believe that if you crawl out from under the shame, you'll find your empathy for your wife neatly folded, just where you left it.

I worry that when I do finally crawl from the shame spirals....from under my rock, the upset is going to hit me like a train. Not a reason to stay hiding, but a fear none the less.

I will keep going.

Thanks DD for the supportive messages. They're appreciated if sometimes undeserved. Time to push that rock out of the way and work harder.

I don't want to think of anything like this as an excuse. I think it is why I'm resistant to it.

Or, let's flip this around, not knowing could be the excuse. If you don't have specific information about the obstacles you need to overcome, then you don't know where and how to start. Then all you do is shrug listlessly and wait for a motivational lightning bolt to hit you.

I do feel they are errors I made, but in reality they are errors I still make and make a lot of the time.

Yup yup yup. This is me, too. Wayward thinking encompasses a lot more than cheating. Cheating is, in fact, usually just a symptom. I don't mean to minimize the gravity of the offense in saying that, but it's one manifestation of a total broken package that includes lying, compartmentalization, conflict avoidance, entitlement, self-justification, and seeking validation to offset self-doubt. We continue along in those grooves we've worn even if we end the affair. If you don't break down those behaviors and follow them back to their roots, then all you've really done is learn that the juice of the A isn't worth the squeeze. You don't develop empathy or become a healthier person that way.

I've focused on the things I feel I'm doing right and only focus on the negative when this is pointed out to me.

Also relatable. I've described this as "At least I" syndrome. In my case, it was "at least I confessed, at least I ended the affair voluntarily, at least I only had sex once, at least I stopped lying." It's bad enough that I wanted some kind of medal for that, but even worse, I hadn't actually earned it. All of those accolades were massive fucking whoppers I told myself. I confessed but seriously minimized the extent of the PA/EA. I refused to go NC and traumatized my BH with months of ongoing "just friends" contact. I defined "sex" in my head to an incredibly narrow window that excused weeks of interactions that went right up to the edge of the line. And the last one, the lying -- I was actively engaged in massive trickle truth even as I patted myself on the back for my honesty. The only "at least I" that was accurate was that I never cheated again, but my BH was nonetheless still married to a wayward. I hadn't given him honesty and agency, and there are many people on this site who would argue that the affair didn't end until I did that.

I wanted to have quick answers which would get this mess over and done with.

That's very common, too. But you're still here, which is much less common, and I find that very encouraging.

Also, I will try not to post something which has already been said and try and pass this off as my own.

None of us invented the wheel here. My personal journey is mine, and the way I convey what I've learned is specific to my own circumstances, but a lot of what I write is distilled from what other WS taught me. Don't feel like you should apologize for doing the same. We need to keep passing down the torch.

Bulcy, I appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. I am very empathetic and sensitive and my struggle was having so many emotions and not knowing how to deal with them and then just shutting them down. My whole life. Cause that seems like the easier thing to do. But obviously that produces major issues later. Maybe there is some aspect of that going on with you. I’m a new WS here so don’t have much input, but thank you for sharing. There are a few affirmations/quotes that I read routinely. Here’s one that I was reminded of when reading your story and the helpful responses from everyone…"I will not give up until I have tried everything. And when I have tried everything I will look for other ways to try." I hope you have a good day.

Or, let's flip this around, not knowing could be the excuse. If you don't have specific information about the obstacles you need to overcome, then you don't know where and how to start. Then all you do is shrug listlessly and wait for a motivational lightning bolt to hit you.

I've been there and don't want to go back. I have sent the report to IC and she is sending me some information on improving EIQ.

Yup yup yup. This is me, too. Wayward thinking encompasses a lot more than cheating. Cheating is, in fact, usually just a symptom. I don't mean to minimize the gravity of the offense in saying that, but it's one manifestation of a total broken package that includes lying, compartmentalization, conflict avoidance, entitlement, self-justification, and seeking validation to offset self-doubt. We continue along in those grooves we've worn even if we end the affair. If you don't break down those behaviors and follow them back to their roots, then all you've really done is learn that the juice of the A isn't worth the squeeze. You don't develop empathy or become a healthier person that way.

Thanks. Understand, break and stay from the behaviours. I'm trying to find empathy and emotional well being. I know it's there, I've found it in the past and it hurt. Doing the digging and letting the oncoming train containing my past behaviours hit me needs to happen.

Also relatable. I've described this as "At least I" syndrome. In my case, it was "at least I confessed, at least I ended the affair voluntarily, at least I only had sex once, at least I stopped lying." It's bad enough that I wanted some kind of medal for that, but even worse, I hadn't actually earned it. All of those accolades were massive fucking whoppers I told myself. I confessed but seriously minimized the extent of the PA/EA. I refused to go NC and traumatized my BH with months of ongoing "just friends" contact. I defined "sex" in my head to an incredibly narrow window that excused weeks of interactions that went right up to the edge of the line. And the last one, the lying -- I was actively engaged in massive trickle truth even as I patted myself on the back for my honesty. The only "at least I" that was accurate was that I never cheated again, but my BH was nonetheless still married to a wayward. I hadn't given him honesty and agency, and there are many people on this site who would argue that the affair didn't end until I did that.

Yeah, I hear you. I got so angry when I was told "You've done nothing to prove you're doing the work, getting it or changing" I would say/think. WTF!!!?!?! I've ended the affair, I'm in NC, You have access to my mails and phone, I tell you where I am and who I'm with at all times etc etc etc....All this while still lying about the affairs, minimising, alowing former IC to tell me how well I was doing. I did not get it. Even with the affair "over" and in NC, by not being there for BS and doing the wayward things above then the affair is not over.

None of us invented the wheel here. My personal journey is mine, and the way I convey what I've learned is specific to my own circumstances, but a lot of what I write is distilled from what other WS taught me. Don't feel like you should apologize for doing the same. We need to keep passing down the torch.

A good point. I just feel a hypocrite advising people to do the things I haven't/didn't.