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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 12:03 PM on Thursday, July 8th, 2021

With respect to your job performance, see your doctor.

Get help sleeping and dealing with anxiety.

Don't try to tough it out on your own (according to your supervisor its not working).

I'm not suggesting long term meds but a short term treatment plan. Doctors see this all the time.

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8673440
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 ASoreLoser (original poster New Member #78968) posted at 1:45 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

My kids went to my in-laws and would be staying there for a while because my wife couldn't handle taking care of the kids.

I met OBS on friday and I showed her the email that AP sent my wife and she told me that she already saw them. AP apparently showed them to her to prove that "he's changed" or trying to. Then we went to my home so my wife could meet her. It wasn't as dramatic as I thought it would be, my wife made lunch but OBS didn't stay to eat, she was just there to listen to what WW had to say. While WW poured her heart out from what I could tell a well-written apology, the conversation was still cold between them.

OBS was kind enough to reply with a neutral tone. She wasn't mad but still demeaning. OBS told her that while WW had a husband striving for her, she chose to ruin her life with POS OM that was a cheat. OBS asked W if the sex was worth it, and the experience of having an affair worth our 4 kid's stability? OBS said that she doesn't blame WW for OBS's marriage because that was POS OM's fault but she was disgusted at her for the part that she played in it, and WW didn't deserve a man like me. [This is where I got nervous]. OBS told WW that she tried to see what kind of husband I am to be able to sabotage a marriage for POS and that she tried her best to seduce me but it didn't work, and that only proves my dedication to WW [OBS kind of implied that something happened between us]. OBS told WW that despite the fact that WW is an idiot for ruining her life, that she envies WW because she will never experience going through a pregnancy alone and has not yet experienced having a cheating husband. OBS never cussed throughout the conversation but her words left scars on WW and helped heal my wounds.

After that, I called an Uber for OBS she went on her way. When I got back in, I went to the living room and WW just hugged me and cried in my arms for what feels like hours. My shirt was dripping with tears and snot. I had to comfort her. It seems OBS really got through her. She told me she read the books was willing to do anything.

When she composed herself we talked about AP's email and our reply. She threatened AP that she would be taking legal action if he contacts her again. I also reminded WW that if she even ever looks at AP that everything we're doing here is done. WW's also told me that she's found an IC and MC who is the same therapist. She also was negative for STD.

We had sex, multiple times. She wanted to and I wanted to. I guess I needed to re-establish my "ownership" of her, I know it sounds bad but it really is what I feel.

How do I feel? Unsafe and Uncertain. It's like traversing your way at night through the kitchen when the power is out. You can't see anything and you have to carefully use your other senses to navigate your way around. It's doable but it's hard. I have been using my eyes my whole life and now it feels like somebody took them away from me and I had to cop a feel through every crevice to know where I am. In short, lost but surviving.

I too have desires and constantly want to "touch". But I was always able to control myself which puts me at an advantage compared to others. I love the feeling of sex and passion and lust. Earlier before I found out about WW's affair, I was always trying to initiate not exactly sex but intimate moments with my wife with the free time that I have, but it went dry and drier until I forgot how good it felt. I missed it.

I don't see my wife as the enemy anymore. I just feel pity for her. I know I can walk away from this and I'll have control of my own life. Yes, I will take a huge financial hit but it's not everything in life. I'm in no way dependent on my wife, I just trust her to take care of the kids. We both chose for her to be a SAHM. I can walk away and still remarry and there would be no guarantee of anything - only what I make of it, and if my wife is truly what she says she is? I can try and work with that.

I used to see her as this perfect queen that I have to please, but now I see her as a normal person with flaws just like me. I now see her mistakes clearly and I see her trying to right those mistakes. I hope what she is doing is genuine and is not just a front. I am the kind of guy that gives second chances, so why can't I give a second chance to my wife? What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger right? I just hope my wife won't cheat on me again or worse - kill me. I guess we'll know through her actions. I hope she doesn't mistake my kindness as weakness. I can only hope.

I do think she's doing the work, not as clear, not as perfect, and not as precise but she puts in the effort. If I were to judge her progress, it definitely needs improvement. But so far she lets me guide her through what I need. She is making mistakes along the way, but she is also eager to correct them. As far as I know, she has given me all the information I need. I now have seen her in her "rock bottom", which triggers my white night personality. So far, the only problem we have was the contact with AP and she seems to understand and agree on how inexcusable and inappropriate that is. I have assured her that if she ever disrespects me like that again that I would "find myself another woman to be a step-mom to our kids while she goes to be with that cheating POS". That scared the living shit out of her. It gives me hope.

Most people would tell me that WW is faking it and I should run the other way. Maybe they are right, maybe not. One thing for sure is, I owe my kids to try, and that in itself is enough reason why. I am now trying to accept what happened, this is my life and if the person who mattered the most in my life, can hurt me more than anyone ever could, then so be it, "to err is human, forgive divine.". Even if it doesn't work out, then truly I will have my closure.

The affair? still feels like it happened yesterday. But me? I feel like I have gained 10 years of experience from emotional turmoil which made me a little jaded but capable.

I admittedly have my own contributions to the downfall of my marriage, I am not going to deny that I could've done this or that. But I also understand that my wife's affair is entirely hers and I hold no responsibility for that - if my wife wants to fix it then sure, she can try. I won't make it easy though.

I'm still on the divorce train, but I'll be honest, I'm rooting for my wife to make shit right again, but if she can't, then there's nothing we can do but go our separate ways.

Some of you might think that I'm letting my WW off easy, but this is what is currently on my mind. I want to be transparent to you guys.

OBS called me today to check up on how WW took it. I thanked OBS for putting me in a good light but I told her that telling WW of our interaction was unnecessary and would possibly hurt both of us and take out our moral high ground. OBS reassured me that it was absolutely necessary to tell WW that and WW needed to know that to wake her up. We caught up on AP, he is still kicked out. OBS told me that she could take AP to the cleaners even though it is a no-fault state because AP is an alcoholic and she could argue to take the kids full time, hence more child support and alimony payments. I invited OBS for dinner at my place but she declined. I hope her the best and to stay in touch. I told her that I may not ever be in a place in my life to understand what she is going through but I am there for her. She thanked me.

WW and I have agreed that I would stay at my apartment Mon-Thurs and go home Fri-Sat. We would go slow while respecting her need to make it up to me and my need to have space.

If there's any typo, I hope you can sort them out.

[This message edited by ASoreLoser at 8:24 AM, July 10th (Saturday)]

posts: 25   ·   registered: Jun. 18th, 2021
id 8674232
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jb3199 ( Member #27673) posted at 2:07 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

It's nice to have a little positive direction in a world of disaster, isn't it? Like you, I'm hoping that your WW is serious about trying to right her wrongs. It is not often that an OBS would ever give their AP the time of day to apologize. I am very impressed with her strength as her world is falling apart around her. It sounds like her words, and demeanor, were exactly what your WW needed to hear.

If you want to attempt reconciliation, then that is your choice to make. Time will tell if your WW is up to the task. But for certain, remember this:

One thing for sure is, I owe my kids to try, and that in itself is enough reason why.

You absolutely, 100%, do not owe anyone an attempt to reconcile. What you owe your children is the best parent and role model that you can be. If that role is a father that still wants to be with their mother after a massive betrayal, who says that it still can't be positive? Their father can show them, with a partner worthy of a second chance, that grace and compassion can still be combined with strength and character.

BH-50s
WW-50s
2 boys
Married 28yrs.(together over 30yrs.)

All work and no play has just cost me my wife--Gary Puckett
D-Day(s): Enough
Accepting that I can/may end this marriage 7/2/14

posts: 3818   ·   registered: Feb. 21st, 2010   ·   location: northeast
id 8674234
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 2:56 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

Words are great but actions count.

posts: 6616   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8674242
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 3:37 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

WW and I have agreed that I would stay at my apartment Mon-Thurs and go home Fri-Sat. We would go slow while respecting her need to make it up to me and my need to have space.

Perfect time for you to reflect on what you want. Better think long term.

There are no guarantees either way. Is this something you can live with/accept long term. It may dissipate but will never fully go away.

Be vigilant. See what is versus what you want to see.

posts: 6616   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8674261
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Marz ( Member #60895) posted at 3:39 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

You absolutely, 100%, do not owe anyone an attempt to reconcile.

Correct. Being a martyr is a thankless task and long term won’t get you a thing.

posts: 6616   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2017
id 8674264
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thatbpguy ( Member #58540) posted at 3:43 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

Most people would tell me that WW is faking it and I should run the other way. Maybe they are right, maybe not.

I would hope not. Only you can determine if she is being truly genuine and then act according on it. I hope things work out between you, I really do.

ME: BHHer: WWDDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I leftDivorcedRemarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4452   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8674267
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 3:57 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

Most people would tell me that WW is faking it and I should run the other way.

I don't think we will tell you she's faking it. Most WW’s aren't sociopaths (although enough of them are, or are deeply narcissistic enough to give any BH significant pause).

So her emotions are more than likely genuine.

What I WILL tell you is to be VERY careful just now. Be VERY cautious:

1. Think hard about KISA (knight in shining armor)

2. Read up on the difference between regret vs remorse - a common phenomenon in wayward spouses. One is feeling sorry for themselves, the other is authentic “metanoia.”

3. Be careful with hysterical bonding

4. Be careful around love and sex bombing.

5. Be aware of how WW’s use tears to manipulate. I am not generalizing here, and most FWW’s and women here will agree that far too many WW’s use tears as a tool of manipulation. The sobbing jags can be both genuine sadness (for herself) and manipulation at the same time.

Just a few thoughts.

I will also tell you that reconciliation, or the attempt to R, is a long and draining slog. You have no idea what you're signing up for. With divorce you know exactly what you're going to get.

If the current me could go back four years and warn the DDAY me, I would be telling myself to harden the fuck up, file for divorce and move on. Now, that's only my personal perspective.

I would urge you to really read the reconciliation forum. Read how many people are in false R, sorta kinda R, limbo, or come back years later full of regret they tried. Read about BH’s who are bending over backwards to try to please women who sound like real monsters.

You will also read genuine R stories that sound absolutely wonderful. These seem to involve WS’s who are exceptionally remorseful, truthful and authentic.

You will also read stories where people seem to be engaging in a lot of happy clappy talk to try to convince themselves they are in some kind of “restored” marriage. (I always wonder how one could claim a precious shattered vase someone deliberately dashed on the floor that is glued back together could ever be as good as it was before).

Then go over and read the divorce and separation forun. Read the “fears vs reality” thread.

Spend some time thinking deeply on this before plunging ahead with R.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:16 AM, July 10th (Saturday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4227   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8674270
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goalong ( Member #57352) posted at 4:15 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

When one is holding an acute grudge, it is weighing on his / her mind even when one is not thinking about it. That can affect other things like job performance. The developments you described may have eased that burden. What has happened you cannot un do. Going forward you can make decision one way or the other without being angry and frustrated.

posts: 772   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2017   ·   location: USA
id 8674279
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MickeyBill2016 ( Member #56459) posted at 4:48 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

How long has it been, a month since DDay?

Right now she is still in the trying to save what she ruined, agreeing to do anything, the proof will be in 6-12 months and if she becomes frustrated and asks "why can't you just move on?".

And you are in charge of the direction the R will take if you choose that path, it has to be a team effort.

She has quickly flipped the script from making hundreds of decisions to cheat, like the fake therapy/babysitting and now she wants to be the perfect wife.

I didn't catch if the OM was a random guy or an old flame...if a former love this may be a one time affair, if he was a guy from work or other random it could happen again in 5-10-15 years...

Good luck!

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 11:31 AM, July 10th (Saturday)]

9 years married.
13 years divorced.

posts: 1176   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2016   ·   location: West of the 405 North of the Mexican border
id 8674294
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Justaguy61 ( New Member #75431) posted at 5:15 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

More and more I am being convinced that the correct action following betrayal is divorce. R can be attempted AFTER divorce if in fact that is desired. The consequence of divorce is huge and clearly demonstrates to the cheater that their "mistake" has destroyed what once was.

posts: 50   ·   registered: Sep. 14th, 2020
id 8674298
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 5:33 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

Watch out for “little lost girl in the woods” syndrome as something in the bag of tricks your WW may resort to next.

This is my term for a common WW gambit (in fact some are still trying it years later here on SI) in which the WW portrays themselves as the victim of a manipulative playa or predator... Or they dump into the stew FOO (family of origin) sex abuse (or vague nonspecific allusions to it) as a reason they failed to keep their panties on in the presence of other men.

This allows a WW to avoid accountability and really it's just another more complex version of “I made a mistake” or “it just happened” - my favourite lines bc I always picture a wayward wife doing a slapstick movie pratfall and landing accidentally spread legged on another man’s junk.

Your wife is a grown woman, not a child. She wasn't lost in the woods. She lied and lied and lied countless times to you. She exposed you to life threatening diseases. She looked right at you and still lied. She brought a shady man into your lives who showed up at your home and tried to beat you up.

Be very careful about accepting either of these narratives or a combination thereof. If you accept it, it will probably bring temporary relief. But years later it will come back to haunt you as your mind clears and you realize you were conned.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:37 AM, July 10th (Saturday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4227   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8674300
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ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 6:20 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

Some of you might think that I'm letting my WW off easy, but this is what is currently on my mind. I want to be transparent to you guys.

Yours is the only opinion that counts. No one else has to live your life or raise your four children.

Frankly, I don't like your WW. I find her to be childish and self-centered. And I don't think she's fit to raise those babies without your stabilizing presence. So yeah... if you can stomach her long enough to see whether she's capable of making changes and also to give your Littles time to get big enough to defend themselves, I think you've got a good plan.

I really don't have any sympathy whatsoever for an OW who claims she needs to apologize to the BW. That's typically about making herself feel better, not really for the ones she's injured. I feel really sorry for the OBS, but she chose to allow it, so whatever. At this point though, I do think you need to back off and get some NC with her as well as the AP. Unless there's broken contact, it's best to move on.

posts: 4520   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8674312
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clouds777 ( Member #72442) posted at 6:55 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

I do think she is getting off too easy and I do think that is exactly what she expected. She did not go NC. She went to comfort the other man instead of you. She didn't even respect you enough after you found out not to contact him. She was selfish enough to expect a meeting with the OBS (which I cannot believe the OBS would agree to).

These are the actions of a woman who knew her tears (that are for herself, not you) would soften you.

From her actions, I am pretty sure she thinks you would never leave her or give her any consequences. Especially because you are a good person who wants to take care of the kids. She went to great lengths to use your resources to deceive you and did not care about the consequences to you or her children, until there might be an end to her gravy train and freedom.

She is sorry she got caught. She is sorry her lifestyle might change. She is sorry this makes her look bad. There is no way she is (yet) sorry for the pain she has caused or, she wouldn't have done the things she did after d day.

Now that you have gone full KISA on her and she got you to have sex with her, I would guess she is feeling pretty smug that she was right and you will take her back if she is pitiful enough. But at the same time, I can see why you would not want her parenting your kids part time alone. She is immature with extremely poor judgement with a healthy dose of entitlement.

I would strongly advise you to work with your lawyer on a favorable to you "golden parachute" divorce and/or post nup. Something that will actually hold up. If she is actually remorseful, she won't take you for everything, which I think is what you fear. She can agree to it now whether you file now, or in the future, or never. She should be getting a job immediately so that if you divorce her, she does have her own income.

Honestly, I would advise you to move forward with divorce now because her behavior during that process with tell you a lot about her now rather than later. That was your plan anyway, why not keep going? There is no reason she cannot continue to work towards reconciliation if thats what you both want. Waiting to make a real decision also makes sense, but get her to agree to the divorce/post nup favorable to you now, if you need it.

As others have said, watch for her actions long term. Tears are easy and mean absolutely nothing except that she is feeling sorry for herself. She is obviously very good at manipulating you.

[This message edited by clouds777 at 12:55 PM, July 10th (Saturday)]

posts: 127   ·   registered: Jan. 1st, 2020
id 8674319
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ChamomileTea ( Member #53574) posted at 7:10 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

I would strongly advise you to work with your lawyer on a favorable to you "golden parachute" divorce and/or post nup. Something that will actually hold up. If she is actually remorseful, she won't take you for everything, which I think is what you fear. She can agree to it now whether you file now, or in the future, or never. She should be getting a job immediately so that if you divorce her, she does have her own income.

Definitely agreed with this ^^^^. You would be wise to use this time to protect yourself and your assets, just in case your WW doesn't make good on her changes. Once a SAHM(D) has cheated, they need to get back into the workforce and earn as much as they're able. We never know how we're going to feel later on down the pike. The healing process is a long one, and sometimes, the love doesn't survive the betrayal. You might look at her in five years, and maybe she's done well in recovery and maybe she hasn't, but either way, you just don't love her enough to look at her face every day. Better to be ready, just in case.

posts: 4520   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8674320
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BlueRaspberry ( Member #76065) posted at 7:18 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

I would strongly advise you to work with your lawyer on a favorable to you "golden parachute" divorce and/or post nup. Something that will actually hold up. If she is actually remorseful, she won't take you for everything, which I think is what you fear. She can agree to it now whether you file now, or in the future, or never. She should be getting a job immediately so that if you divorce her, she does have her own income.

This^^^^^^

posts: 218   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8674321
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SpaceGhost0007 ( Member #46539) posted at 9:50 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

You should do whatever you think is best for you.

Having said that I am amazed how many times I see women that are married get caught screwing other men. After getting caught they start crying... A lot and the husband melts because of the crying.

Women can cry like they can breathe it comes very easy. Its no wonder they make the determination that even if caught they can get out of trouble. Why shouldn’t they chance the affair they can cry their way out of it.

Also how many times does the BS tell them no contact and so many other threats they do not follow through on. I am starting to understand why so many cheat knowing there’s no consequences.

Back to you OP I wish you the best of luck.

posts: 144   ·   registered: Jan. 28th, 2015
id 8674343
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beb252 ( Member #78948) posted at 11:58 PM on Saturday, July 10th, 2021

ASL,

It's good to know that you're in a better place now. I believe you're still more aligned to D than R. But be wary of your WW's actions. Be firm that having sex doesn't mean an automatic route for R. You should tell that to her to avoid giving her false hope. Don't get too attached to the love bombs and unlimited sex which your WW is doing right now. She could have done it before but she chose to give it to POSOM instead. Now she's out of the affair fog but you should still continue to be in control. Don't ever let her on the driver's seat as you may return to the same scenario as before.

You can't blame OBS for what she did, in fact, she helped you a lot by saying you're the better guy than her POS WH. Now your WW is starting to realize that she's losing the one who's clearly better on all aspects.

OBS is in a bad place and I suggest you continue helping her out. Although it's not your duty but I feel pity on her behalf. She's been in this predicament longer than you do.

All the best!

posts: 376   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8674365
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gr8ful ( Member #58180) posted at 1:37 AM on Sunday, July 11th, 2021

Very sorry I’m late to reply on this, but from CT:

if my H had come at me with "#10 Intimacy" you can bet your ass he'd never see "#23 Affection" again. It sounds so coercive and rapey

Am I the only one to feel disgusted the BH was accused of being "coercive and rapey" ?? Can someone tell me why it’s perfectly fine to say these kinds of things to a BS on the JFO forum? I know CT is revered around here, but seriously folks. The OP CLEARLY said she didn’t have to do ANYTHING and could walk away any time she wants.

But yet, BS is "coercive and rapey". Just…. damn.

posts: 82   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8674375
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fareast ( Member #61555) posted at 2:06 AM on Sunday, July 11th, 2021

I don't think you are being too easy on her in this instance. I do agree with Chamomile Tea that she has acted immature and self centered. Reading between the lines, perhaps you and others put her on a pedestal. That is never a good place to put your life partner. The OBS delivered her message well. Your WW has hit rock bottom. Now you will see if the woman you married has the strength to face herself and build herself back up, and become a better partner. Good luck.

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 2795   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8674381
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