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goalong ( member #57352) posted at 8:40 PM on Sunday, June 27th, 2021

Feel sorry for your WW. Unlike many WWs she is agreeing to everything, may be to save herself. She sounds naïve and someone who can be rather easily persuaded. She (and apparently the POS unless he did not care) had no clue that phone and social media contacts can be tapped. She is all beaten up. I think further shouting at her and laying more conditions will serve no purpose. What you may want to do is check whether she fully complies with all your demands and conditions that she said she will do. For example whether she continue to keep contact with OM.

In the introduction you said you normally have a busy schedule and you sometimes have no time for family time. You also said sometime you do not feel like being romantic with WW. If it happened mostly only when you you want, your WW may have developed resentment. Also sometimes it happened that SAHWs develop an inferiority complex and they develop relationships where they feel they are superior. This is not to say that what she did is your fault but to speculate on how sometime the mind work. Also it seems like from what you said the POS is a landlord and may have free time on his hand. Judging by how he reacted it is better to keep an eye on him

posts: 773   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2017   ·   location: USA
id 8670419
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 9:01 PM on Sunday, June 27th, 2021

She told me that I can do what I want just not leave her. I was surprised actually because she offers me unlimited sex and that I can cheat on her. I was taken aback and I just said I'll think about it. Anyone has ever encountered this?

There are a ton of threads here where a newly caught WW offers the BH a hall pass. If you think about it, it's really fucked up. Does she actually care that little about your marriage? In the end, it's just wayward thinking, projected onto you. She wants to stop feeling bad, so she offers you a way to come down to her level.

The experience generally is that it can't possibly work to "even" things out. First, if you announce that you're going out to seek some side pussy, it won't be an illicit, thrilling adventure. Second, men generally don't have the easy availability of sex that women do. Think about it. How many available women do you think there are in the world whose idea of a good time is some NSA sex with a middle aged married man who only wants the sex for revenge on his wife? Not exactly an aphrodisiac. Thus, to get sex, you'll likely need to build an emotional relationship with another woman. How is that going to work while you remain married and living with your wife? You gonna bring your girlfriend home? Ask the wife to go out for the evening, "and, er, honey, don't forget to flip all of our family photos over so my girlfriend doesn't figure out I'm married."

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:53 PM, June 27th (Sunday)]

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8670427
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ChamomileTea ( member #53574) posted at 12:57 AM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

Does her compliance mean repentance?

Nope. All it means is that she doesn't want to lose her home deal. Frankly, there aren't many healthy women who would put up with that kind of chest-thumping tone. WW's are often quite desperate though. I, for example, am NOT a WW.. so if my H had come at me with "#10 Intimacy" you can bet your ass he'd never see "#23 Affection" again. It sounds so coercive and rapey.

So, the fact that she's not profoundly offended by the tone of those demands tells you that she's in WW survival mode.

There's just no straight path to R. And it's not that your list of demands doesn't have some good points. But boundaries are about what we can tolerate in our lives. They're not rules for a grown ass woman to follow. If you can take those points and make them into BOUNDARY STATEMENTS which describe YOU, then you're not issuing edicts like you're her dad. ie. "I will not tolerate a secretive spouse. I live my life in openness and sharing and I expect the same from my mate." You see how that works? Now, it's about you and what you're looking for from a woman who purports to want to be your domestic partner for the rest of her life.

While it's true that R needs to be on your terms and not on hers, if you become dictatorial, all you can be sure of is that she has her own reasons to comply. Those reasons may (or may not) have anything warm and emotional to say about you. You haven't left room for that, so anything you observe will simply be compliance. The last thing you want to do is to introduce a authoritarian/parental dynamic into your marriage because you'll never know what's REAL and what isn't. She's not a child and you're not her dad. She needs to take grown-up responsibility for what she did and she needs to look at you with empathy, not anxiety.

On the plus side, you came out strong and that's a good thing in the beginning. So, these points above are fairly small beans, but if you do decide to go forward in R, your tone is going to need to reflect who YOU are because what you want ultimately is to make a real connection with your spouse. You need to be who you are, not who a bunch of guys on the internet think you should be.

In reference to her offer of a "hall pass"... yeah, we hear that from WW's quite a bit. This too is an indicator of desperation. The problem with taking her up on it though is that it cleans the slate. At that point, you're BOTH guilty of breaking your vows and she feels like it's unfair for you to make further demands upon her. When you think about WHY people cheat, it's easy to see that it's a character issue. There's something inside the cheater which is capable of saying "yes!" to cheating and lies. So, in order to go forward you need her to fix her broken character. Once you've evened the score though, you're as dirty as she is and she doesn't deel like she has to do the horribly humbling, internally intrusive work to figure her shit out. It's not that WW's aren't jealous; most are. But they're so afraid losing their home situation, that they're willing to take the hit. It's a trap, albeit not a malicious one. It's not like WW's are comparing notes or something. Desperation is the motivation.

posts: 4530   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016
id 8670486
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 1:15 AM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

ASoreLoser,

ChamomileTea just nailed it. Your wife is desperate and regrets being exposed as an adulterer and potentially losing her family/lifestyle. She is NOT remorseful. She needs to dig deep with IC and learn why she made those awful CHOICES (not mistakes) to lie, betray her vows/family/spouse, and behave in an immoral and despicable manner. Understanding that, she can then begin to determine how to not make similar choices in the future. Lastly, and more importantly, she needs to begin empathizing with the pain and emptiness she caused inside you and help you heal. Once she does that, she can be considered remorseful. Not before.

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 7:16 PM, June 27th (Sunday)]

posts: 219   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8670493
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guvensiz ( member #75858) posted at 2:28 AM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

She was crying the whole time begging me to come to talk that we could fix this mistake and we shouldn't jeopardize our kid's future.

This was not a mistake, it was a choice she made of her own will, over and over again.

There wasn't "we" when she was fucking that POS. And now you are partner in crime of jeopardizing the future of children. Actually, not her, it's you, who wants a divorce. Fucking other man doesn't count.

There is nothing in their textings that says she loves you. She just says she won't let the life she's used to be destroyed.

"it didn't mean anything".

Yes, sure, but they were telling each other what it did mean.

She told me that I can do what I want just not leave her. I was surprised actually because she offers me unlimited sex and that I can cheat on her.

Initially, I was disgusted by the idea but as I was thinking on it more, it has some downsides and upsides.

Yes, it's disgusting.

First of all, cheating is not something that is within the knowledge and consent of the spouse.

She wants to ease her conscience and equate her position with you. So she's doing this for herself, not for you.

It looks like she's giving you a favor, but what's the alternative; doing whatever you want with whoever you want as a free single man.

posts: 480   ·   registered: Nov. 14th, 2020
id 8670507
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beb252 ( member #78948) posted at 4:15 AM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

"it didn't mean anything".

Yeah, judging from their conversation when they say to each other that they're each other's 'the one that got away', clearly it means something. She only said that because they got caught. I still can't get over the fact that POSOM went to your house. That's way way way overboard. He knows all along that he's in the wrong side of things and he still has the courage to go to your house? Did you file a trespassing case for him? Clearly he's not invited to your house and he trespassed physically and he trespassed into your marriage.

posts: 378   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2021
id 8670534
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Buffer ( member #71664) posted at 12:17 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

Brother it is a long road you are on and you have yet to take the first step. Your moods most likely will swing from anger, betrayal, hurt, pity, depression, to lusting for her. To can’t stand to be under the same roof.

But what is the main reason she she has changed her stance to happily ever after with her dream boat POS; to I want to stay with my BS?

To go through the endless questions about everything you feel the need to know. Then rehashing them as the answers just don’t make sense.

What ever you decide ,well kudos to you. But just don’t change your basic principles for her. Have you wanted a open marriage? If the answer is no then how will it help you to get over her betrayal? At the end of the day all we have are our principles. Don’t sacrifice them so she can justify her actions.

Life is hard enough with one partner.

One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1192   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8670581
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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 1:12 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

ASL, your WW proposed to allow you to have a RA to "settle the score" so to speak, however, you having sex with her knowledge and "approval" is not the same as her lying and cheating behind your back for months. It is also a terrible idea. It will only complicate things. Do you want to have an open M? Because that is effectively what you would be doing. If you want to have other sex partners (doesn't seem to be one of your goals, but I don't know), then D your WW and do so as a single man. Remember, your children will be watching you and your WW, and they will learn how to treat their romantic partners from you.

Keep focusing on yourself and your kids. You should read up on the 180 and disengage with your WW for a while. The physical separation will probably help, and allow you to look at the situation rationally, and make better decisions without your emotions getting control of you.

Clearly, your WW has shown you that she thinks she can lure you back with sex. You may want to tell her to back off for a while and you will let her know if and when you are ready. YOU need to be in control, for your own well being.

posts: 1516   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 8670591
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MorbidCuriosity ( new member #74928) posted at 4:44 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

In your wife's case OP I think it is best to go through with the divorce and start from there. Everything you relayed from her mouth and her actions make it seem like she wants to stay in this for HERSELF because she is unemployed and wants to keep the lifestyle and status quo.

It takes a LOONG time to R so don't fall back into it so quick. Make her live like she is not dependent on you. Make her work for it. Then see how it goes. YOu are in this for the long run my friend

posts: 49   ·   registered: Jul. 19th, 2020
id 8670633
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 4:55 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

It didn’t mean anything!

Best response to this for me is always:

It does to me!!

And convey that the fact that she did something so hurtful to you and it doesn’t mean anything to her shows you how uncaring she is toward you.

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3176   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8670636
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 7:57 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

My wife told him that her family is erupting and that they never should've let things get this far and to never speak to her again.

Why was your wife so respectful to him? Is she afraid of him?

He's a stupid, selfish, entitled ass with no empathy for others. He intentionally humiliated her husband (making it more difficult to R); and could have traumatized her kids(or crippled her husband) by confronting you at home.

IMO her last text should have been dripping with anger, outrage, and ended with a: I hate you.

posts: 2413   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8670666
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 8:09 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

IMO you may benefit from maintaining a daily journal as a record of what is said and done between you two - and how it makes you feel.

I also suggest you speak with your attorney about a post nup that covers child custody or contains any reference to her cheating again.

It's my understanding (I'm not a lawyer) that neither the infidelity clause or custody clause is enforceable (i.e., family court always has the final say with kids).

posts: 2413   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8670667
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 8:23 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

To discourage further drama begging & tears), I suggest you inform your wife:

1 - whatever regret or emotions (or tears) an adulterer experiences, the victim's pain is 1,000 times more intense.

2 - that (based on her lies and deceitful behavior) she is now (in your eyes) a 'liar'. She will be viewed as a liar until she can prove she's trustworthy. That you no longer give her the benefit of the doubt or trust anything she says or promises.

3- Tears, begging, self hate comments, are not evidence of her being trustworthy and instead are now viewed as an attempt to get your sympathy (manipulate you).

4 - sex bombing is not evidence of love or affection but rather it's being used as a tool to manipulate you into overlooking that she destroyed her marriage (which will take you guys years to rebuild).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 5:52 AM, June 29th (Tuesday)]

posts: 2413   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8670673
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 8:24 PM on Monday, June 28th, 2021

ASoreLoser,

With respect to the pre-nup, I would recommend you NOT reference infidelity as a trigger. Rather, a divorce for any reason should be the trigger. Assuming a pre-nup is recommended/enforceable in your state by your legal team, you should bake in more flexibility. What if your wife fails to move forward with all the requirements for reconciliation you establish? What if you find over time that you just cannot be happy in the marriage given what she has done? Having a pre-nup triggered by a divorce (for whatever reason) is more advantageous to you.

posts: 219   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8670674
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babypuke ( member #56585) posted at 3:20 PM on Tuesday, June 29th, 2021

Strength! You are in the next phase now, she has the divorce papers and her affair with OM is being undermined, the affair and AP now no longer are the fantasy and fun but she is starting to feel and experiencing the negative consequences.

Important here is that she would consider a) the affair a 'bad thing', but also b) would consider the AP a 'bad person', if you can get her to start to hate the guy even the better, and c) her own wayward behavior 'bad behavior'. By not only denoting the 'affair' as bad, but also the 'person' and the 'behavior', you open multiple fronts and make things more overwhelming but also more tangible to her.

Accordingly by now may feel you are getting back in control again and that she becomes/appears more cooperative.

I was surprised actually because she offers me unlimited sex and that I can cheat on her. I was taken aback and I just said I'll think about it. Anyone has ever encountered this? What did you guys do?

Yes I was offered this, but did not accept the offer for multiple reasons. First of all, I did not want to lose the moral high ground, you need that to make change happen. Further, it would not have been my own voluntary choice, but a byproduct of having been cheated upon. Furthermore, as another member here already mentioned, the wayward wife would go off every night with another guy, while men have it more difficult in finding a willing partner thus things would be uneven and unequal (and thus a root for problems). Also, me having sex with another person does not make any repairs. Also, I did not enter the closed relationship to have an open relationship, thus having an open relationship would highly likely have been not something that I would have wanted anyway. It is a LANDMINE.

AP asked if my wife and I were separating. And to that my wife said, "I won't let that happen".

She says she does not want to seperate but still I found this disturbing to read. She did let the infidelity happen and thus is the cause of this all, but does not truly admit it to herself? But foremost, apparently her attitude is still that she is the one who makes the decisions in, and what happens to, your relationship with her, as seen from a power struggle perspective, she still thinks she can do anything she wants to you and the relationship (even if it would cost some fake tears and acting remorseful). A truly remorseful WW would be crying at your feet and begging you for a new chance, but also and foremost would be doing everything to make YOU feel safe and good (e.g., breaking all contact with OM, hating the guy) and be in full despair and in complete loss of hope, and giving you all power. Her statement reflects that she still is the boss? Is she?

I finally had the courage to tell my supervisor and he was generous enough to give me a paid day off.

Great that your supervisor reacted in this way, the people around you want to know how things are with you, and are often more willing to help and comfort than one would expect, and by sharing the good times but also the bad things, which is your every right because it is what happens in your life, you can also show those people that your bond with them is sincere and that deepens, and contributes, to the quality of the social relationships.

Strength, step by step, and best wishes.

posts: 342   ·   registered: Dec. 28th, 2016
id 8670902
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 ASoreLoser (original poster new member #78968) posted at 4:32 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

We were supposed to have a talk about the affair this coming weekend. I have given her a chance to make it right only to find out that she is still in contact with AP. Despite my brawl with him last week and her begging and promises upon d-day, she is still talking to him and comforting him with his divorce. She is still keeping him at bay. She thinks she has me fooled. She doesn't know I have access to her phone and not only her texts.

I feel like a b-grade consolation prize. I guess were pushing through a divorce.

posts: 25   ·   registered: Jun. 18th, 2021
id 8671396
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Butforthegrace ( member #63264) posted at 4:39 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

I said it before: the AP will soon be single. Shes using crocodile tears to fend you off until she gets her ducks in a row.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

posts: 3771   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2018   ·   location: Midwest
id 8671397
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src9043 ( member #75367) posted at 4:44 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

So sorry for what you are going through. Be done with her. What a traitorous lying skank. Simply disgusting. Move on quickly.

posts: 417   ·   registered: Sep. 7th, 2020
id 8671401
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BlueRaspberry ( member #76065) posted at 4:51 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

ASoreLoser,

She is horrible - what a duplicitous pile of crap.

The last thing you need is to finance her new life with the AP. Talk to your lawyer about options to protect yourself financially. It's fine to provide for your kids, but alimony that funds the wife and AP is unacceptable. If she had time for an affair, she has time to get a job. She doesn't know you are aware of her discussions with the AP so perhaps this weekend you can discuss her getting a job to make amends and offset costs. If you can get a divorce settlement that just includes child support and not alimony (at least not perpetual or until your kids get into school), that would be ideal. Perhaps you could pitch the possibility of getting back together after the divorce to forge a new marriage once she has met all your previous requests - that might entice her to accept a more advantageous settlement for you...

Do not let her know you can monitor her texts and/or calls. This is valuable intelligence.

[This message edited by BlueRaspberry at 11:08 PM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

posts: 219   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2020
id 8671402
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ShutterHappy ( member #64318) posted at 5:09 AM on Thursday, July 1st, 2021

I feel like a b-grade consolation prize.

I understand but you’re not. One constant here on SI is that cheaters make stupid decisions. Your STBXWW is on a path to self destruction.

However, You should focus on what is the best outcome for you and your children now.

One day at a time… it will get better

ETA: reviewing your story, there was the “using the kids to get you home”, the there was the “agreeing to your conditions, including NC, then contacting Philip to comfort him”…. She seems quite manipulative.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 11:21 PM, June 30th (Wednesday)]

Me: BH
Divorced, remarried.
I plan on living forever. So far so good

posts: 1438   ·   registered: Jun. 30th, 2018   ·   location: In my house
id 8671406
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