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Wayward not bothered at all by scenes of adultery

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HappilyMarried1 posted 5/3/2021 17:53 PM

Hey @HCSDI

Not much of anything. However, just yesterday she agreed to attend counseling to learn how to have a discussion with me, and to get advice on how to be more empathetic.

So she agreed, and then this morning told me when her apt. is. This may not sound like much, but it is huge for her. Now maybe the therapist will talk her into D but that's OK...

This is a positive small step I think for her based on what you have said. Hopefully counselor can get her to see how her actions have affected you and your marriage.

BeyondRage posted 5/3/2021 18:35 PM

My first thought is that I shouldn't be talking about it with her, but then again she is a young adult and she might want to know more.

Arent you at all interested in if SHE knows more???? No thought that your daughter witnessed virtually the entire build up, or might have even known your wife was going to bang OM?? This is beyond bizarre.

I have four daughters between 19 and 25. Given the sexual attitudes of the younger generation today, my guess is given what my wife did they would be pissed as hell but would still come down on the side of giving her another chance. Your daughter is either also gaslighting you or was willfully blind to what was going on in front of her for two weeks. And you have no interest.

So to recap, including the trip she cheated on you on, she has now gone on two other extended overnights including grabbing a chunk of cash, and you actually believe that because you know where she is that makes it all OK. Someone else posted that the work training trip was with another MALE . if that is true, and it may not be, you are being truly naive.

You have chosen an MC that has shifted the goal from getting you some peace to holding you accountable for your wife climbing in the sack with another man. Find an MC that is not taking your wifes side in this.

You posted a thread asking if she is more likely to cheat again. How can you possible believe otherwise as far as the odds. She has suffered no consequences, even short term,and may even be being supported by your daughters.

Getting out of infidelity is YOU telling your wife what YOU need to get through this and telling her she is welcome to join you for the ride, but that while you own 50% of the marital problems the cheating is 100% on her. Until you make her believe that that position is not changing you are going to be run over like standing in front of a speeding truck

RocketRaccoon posted 5/3/2021 22:15 PM

I'm still a little hurt though, that WW could not understand why it was a problem for me. She told me that I should be happy for this trip because my daughters & SIL were looking forward to it. She was totally clueless.

Your WS may not be clueless, but has taken you for granted. She knows you will be there regardless of what she does, and as such, does not warrant any thoughts of consideration.

She possibly used that little getaway to run from the issues at home. Between seeing others happy, or dealing with you and your 'negativity', she chose to run towards 'happiness'.

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 5/4/2021 08:29 AM

BeyondRage:

Yes, that's correct, I don't want my daughter (or any of my children) burdened by this drama. And yes, I have no interest in finding out if she knows more. One post somewhere made me think about it a little, that maybe she wants to talk about it but doesn't know how to bring it up to me. I hadn't considered that and so I might start a discussion with her.

Regarding the MC, I believe she fucked up my compass but then again, the MC's client is the marriage relationship, not the husband nor the wife. So whatever is good for the marriage relationship. We fired her (my idea) and even WW noticed the unbalanced treatment and didn't want to be part of it either.

I never said who was doing the training with her, I don't know who reads these threads and can put 2&2 together so I am cautious with details. Imagine your WW was leaving for a month to work on a project with your brother who knows the whole story, and your kids were rotating and staying with them. I wasn't concerned about her cheating, I was more hurt that she didn't care about putting the marriage back together. Like I said, I think the MC fucked up my compass. WW agreed that it was a shitty thing to do.

This seems to come across as unbelievable on this forum (which I kind of get) but I believe her story and I believe she hasn't and still does not lie. If I'm naďve, that's where it is. Other than that is an emotional struggle of just deciding to D and let that drive the motivation. I need to be ready to give up and walk out, and so far I'm not.

BeyondRage posted 5/4/2021 13:28 PM

HCSD

Do you really believe that your daughter is in no way already involved in this drama. From your description of your wife’s story this hook up built up over two weeks , the entire time of which your daughter had to be present and notice this guy hanging around. And I’m sure your daughter is intelligent enough not to be absolutely clueless as to what was happening.
This has nothing to do with divorce right now. What is does have to do with is if your wife’s confession was influenced by your daughter knowing and not by all of the wonderful character qualities you are espousing for her. If your daughter had ANY inkling then she is already involved whether you like it or not .
And your wife’s refusal to stop ignoring your pain may be because she’s ok with your daughter so what you think doesn’t matter . Your position would make total sense IF your wife was on a trip with a girlfriend. But your daughter was in proximity the entire time . And for heavens sake she’s not a twelve year old. A strange guy around all the time not hitting on her but hitting on her mother and you think she’s not impacted or involved. Wake up man .
Your actions scream of fear and denial. You sure you don’t want to know because the truth might not be what you want to hear???
You keep saying you’re not ready to divorce. But it seems you’re pretty sure your wife will be if she doesn’t get her way.
You are going to new therapist. Since this was primarily your idea I suggest you tell this therapist it will be a one session meeting if you hear anything other then her being pressed to give you answers to what you want.
Your marriage is not the issue here. Your wife fucking another man is .
There is another saying here that is often repeated . And that is
“ You must be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it”
Those that ignore that don’t do too well here on outcomes

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 5/4/2021 16:22 PM

BeyondRage:

Please do this for me, I'm going to restate what I read you saying, and ask you to verify that I've got it right, and if there is anything missing:

#1 If it were you, you would talk to my daughter to get her version of events, what she saw, how my wife was acting.

#2 If it were you, you would find out if my wife told me before my daughter did.

BeyondRage posted 5/4/2021 16:53 PM

Please do this for me, I'm going to restate what I read you

saying, and ask you to verify that I've got it right, and if there is anything missing:

#1 If it were you, you would talk to my daughter to get her version of events, what she saw, how my wife was acting.

#2 If it were you, you would find out if my wife told me before my daughter did.


In answer to your questions, if it were me, unless you are convinced that your daughter is clueless, , I would for sure want to know
(1) if she was aware there was flirting going on between this guy and your wife.
(2) did she stay anything to her mother about it And if so what.
(3) and on the night that she spent with him was your daughter totally unaware where she was , who she was with, and what time she arrived back in the room.

Your adult daughter is not going to be traumatized by any of this

In answer to your second question, if it were me that would also be a big deal. You have given an lot of credit to your wife for confessing. Her actions and behavior show exactly the opposite and if your read all of the comments again from everyone on all of your threads, the overwhelming majority most likely agree with that statement .

By finding the truth about what your daughter knew, and how she reacted, it might actually help you verify that your wife actually confessed over her own guilt. If it were me, given her gaslighting and blaming you for a lot of it, I would not bet my 401K that at least part of her confession rational had nothing to do with the fact your daughter knew at least something.

The reason you appear to some to be in denial is because I believe most dads would be at least a little disappointed if their daughter knew that their Mom fucked another man and kept you in the dark. I would sure as hell want to at least know that.

There are a bunch of strangers that have all been in your shoes to some degree. When most of them come to the same conclusions given that they have all been down this road, the group is usually not too often totally wrong.

You are playing what is called the pick me game. I know you think you are not because she is telling you where she is.
She hasn’t told you his name, where he lives , or I missed it and apologize to you if that is the case.

You are being told to suck it up, get over it, and that is not a recipe for a happy and successful reconciliation. However, until she believes that, you will be chasing your tail.

And lastly if I were you, I’d sure be wondering if she ever did this before. If she fucked a guy whose name she doesn’t know after two weeks of hanging out I’d be not too certain I’d believe it never happened before without your daughter around. Very few women, unless boozed up, will hook up with someone they know nothing about. Maybe you know this info.

No one here is rushing you to divorce. Probably 90% of the BH here would have answered a survey that infidelity was a definite deal breaker. But most, not all, of the BH here did not divorce immediately. But yorur wife’s actions, and actions are all that count, are not giving you a great chance to see her long term in the same light and trust her. Trust comes with truth and communication, not activating Find My I phone, which can be circumvented easily.

guvensiz posted 5/4/2021 17:10 PM

Your daughter is already involved in this somehow. You should listen to what happened by talking her with the appropriate words. Your WW knows how much she saw what happened and may have limited the story to what she knows. She may have wanted to avoid a possible conversation between you and your daughter by saying that she will tell you too. Therefore, you should talk to your daughter about what she saw and what your WW told her.

I think you should know the whole truth, but all that aside, I think the main thing to worry about is not whether her A with the AP will continue, but what your WW is capable of. This really can be a ONS and AP doesn't really mean anything to her. But this recklessness and unempathy of your WW shows that she can easily do the same with any others.
I live in a touristic country and I know how common and easily this type of A's can be experienced, especially between young men and middle-aged women. Most are limited by the duration of the vacation, but on another vacation there are always other men ready for it.
This is something about her moral boundaries.

RocketRaccoon posted 5/4/2021 22:09 PM

Yes, that's correct, I don't want my daughter (or any of my children) burdened by this drama. And yes, I have no interest in finding out if she knows more. One post somewhere made me think about it a little, that maybe she wants to talk about it but doesn't know how to bring it up to me. I hadn't considered that and so I might start a discussion with her.

I believe it was my initial posting.

IMHO it would be good to sit down and have a talk with your daughter. Make it about her feelings and thoughts. DO NOT interrogate her about what she knows. She will tell you if she wants to.

I lieu of a professional counsellor, your role in the talk is to help guide her through the storm that she might be facing because of what she knows.

It really does not matter what she show or does not know. What matters is that you are there for her, and that she knows she can count on you.

If she vomits all she knows about her mother's affair to you, well and good. If not, then give her the support she might need.

Robert22205https posted 5/5/2021 09:27 AM

I fully admit that I mistreated her. Never physical but I know my behaviors were very damaging. I own all of my horrible behaviors to which I have no excuse.

Can you provide examples of your abusive behavior that your wife equates as being equally damaging/hurtful as adultery?

Did she cite specific instances of your abusive behavior as her justification to commit adultery?

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 10:15 AM, May 5th (Wednesday)]

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 5/12/2021 17:59 PM

Can you provide examples of your abusive behavior that your wife equates as being equally damaging/hurtful as adultery?

They are back up in the thread but she has never said "equally damaging" or "hurtful", she kind of implied it but was careful to avoid a direct comparison as I was offended as hell when she corrected me and said we don't need an "affair recovery" rather a "marriage recovery."

Did she cite specific instances of your abusive behavior as her justification to commit adultery?

No, but again her words wouldn't be justification, rather what she would do is get defensive if I needed something from her, for example if I wanted to get away and talk she has said things like "Why the sudden interest? Where was this concern for the marriage when I was hurting?" and shit like that.

Note that in the past couple weeks I have decided that we're not in R. I will say that I'm pursuing R and she isn't ready, she's just along for the ride.

I had an initial session with a new IC who I think is going to be a good advocate. He validated a lot of what I've been feeling, and while he didn't go so far as to say we're not in R, he did say that it is not likely to succeed without some changes from her, and knows how the research supports it.

With his help over the next few weeks I feel good I'll have a move forward plan. I also started an online blog to document my journey (I can give the link on PM request) I don't know who would discover it let alone read it, but it is somewhat cathartic to share a journal to the public.

asc1226 posted 5/13/2021 06:16 AM

Sent you a pm

asc1226 posted 5/13/2021 09:42 AM

HCSDI,
I attempted to leave this comment on your journal page but it doesn’t seem to be posting.
Have you checked out her counselor? If they approach infidelity with the unmet needs model they may end up validating your WW’s rugsweeping tendencies.

HowCouldSheDoIt posted 5/13/2021 16:46 PM

Have you checked out her counselor? If they approach infidelity with the unmet needs model they may end up validating your WW’s rugsweeping tendencies.

No, I have no idea who her counselor is, I know she's a woman, and that's all I know.

And really, it isn't something I can control. It was my request that she sees an IC, but for all I know she's pissed about it, and instead of improving her abilities of empathy, she's asked the IC to help strengthen her so she can D.

I'm feeling a detachment of outcome here, and between meeting this new IC, my own journaling efforts, and the WW continued passive indifference I'm feeling quite a bit less anxious about the future.

sisoon posted 5/13/2021 19:32 PM

Again (I think), you can set requirements. There are 2 points in doing so.

First, if you discuss your requirements, your W can agree to meet them, and you start R.

She can reject them, in which case you split, knowing that you don't fit together

She can negotiate modifications in your requirements, which you can accept or reject. If you accept, you start R; if you reject her mods, you split.

Second, if you agree to start R, you both monitor performance.

If the reqs are met, R proceeds. If they're not met, you either adjust or split.

One requirement I suggest is 'IC with a goal of changing from cheater to good partner.'

You both monitor how she's doing an adjust as you go along.

src9043 posted 5/16/2021 18:51 PM

As I mentioned to you previously, I believe her ONS was designed, either consciously or unconsciously to shoot a cannonball across your bow. If you think she is preparing for divorce, my advice is to strike first. I'd be hopping mad if I were you. She sounds like she has little regret for the ONS at this point.

[This message edited by src9043 at 12:26 AM, May 17th (Monday)]

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