Newest Member: Loyalandbetrayed

Just Found Out :
WS has no idea I know

Topic is Sleeping.
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:54 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Something for a lot further down the road though.

No dude, polygraphs are for RIGHT NOW. They are part and parcel to the only method that works here - shock and awe.

1. She hands over her phone for recovery software immediately. No delays. It's "hand over the phone or GTFO"

2. She writes down a DETAILED WRITTEN timeline - she sits her butt in a chair with pen and paper and writes it down in a matter of a few days. It shouldn't take long and she can at least devote a fraction of the time and energy to this as she did fuckiing around on you.

3. You ask detailed folo up questions to clarify the timeline. PM me and I can send you a voluminous list of questions to ask.

4. You schedule IMMEDIATELY a polygraph after the timeline and after you ask additional questions. The polygraph is to back up the veracity of the timeline.

You will know IMMEDIATELY if there are lies, elisions, omissions in the timeline bc she will balk at doing the polygraph. The polygraph will cost about $500-600 and you can ask 3-4 questions the examiner will help word, with about 90 percent accuracy.

The polygraph is to ensure the veracity of the timeline. But here's what it also does: it is a 'truth will out" tool to ensure that she has told you EVERYTHING you want to know and also is a tool of psychic pressure to make her come clean.

It also -- like the STD test and like having to write down the ugly details of her betrayal and like allowing you to look up all the deleted texts and pics -- drives home just serious this is and just how serious YOU ARE.

The polygraph is not for later. I waited on the polygraph and that ways lies madness. Please listen! Do it in this sequence NOW!

And while she's doing all of this, she should be getting a full STD panel and show you the results.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:57 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4217   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583063
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thatbpguy ( Member #58540) posted at 10:56 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I haven't time to read the whole thread, but you're playing the 'pick me' dance game. Where you're begging her to stay with no accountability or dealing with her actions.

GREAT way to end a marriage! (or relationship)

If you're not mad as heel, hurt to the quick over this then she will be empowered to continue as she sees fit. What kind of a marriage is that?

I am sorry, but I see no hope if you're going to beg her to stay. She needs to beg you to stay. She needs to feel serious remorse, guilt and shame. She needs to work on healing herself as she is a very broken person.

I wish you well, but this doesn't look good. I also suggest an immediate in-house separation- or one of you leaves and see how she works things out to prover herself to you.

ME: BHHer: WWDDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I leftDivorcedRemarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4449   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8583064
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 11:00 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

My WW ranged from Oscar performance melodramatic blubbering on the tear and snot soaked floor begging of forgiveness, self deprecating and loathing to absolute F-You defiance.

Yep. Seen it. Been there. I call it the space alien.

Better harden up fast, friend. You have no idea really what you're dealing with. But you're about to find out. Good luck.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:00 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4217   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583070
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DictumVeritas ( Member #74087) posted at 5:22 AM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

freefalling,

ThatBPGuy was referring to your first post where you wanted to offer R straight of the bat, but you've listened and adjusted your strategy since.

The way you are planning to do things now is not the pick-me-dance and is the correct way to go.

Don't worry, you've got this.

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

posts: 225   ·   registered: Mar. 22nd, 2020   ·   location: South-Africa
id 8583199
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Kaliber ( Member #74046) posted at 9:42 AM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

freefalling:

Sorry, no sources. I'm playing this as close to my chest as possible, and hoping for the best.

however you did say you have good evidence in your original post:

have evidence of everything.

Don't talk to much and keep looking at your watch from time to time, let her do the talking and explain her side.

You need to be careful, she will lie that nothing happened, it's all in your head, she will ask you about your source, and who ever told you is lying. She might attack you that you are insecure and jealous.

You may see a side to your wife you’ve never seen before. It’s quite shocking.

Keep firm, and your answer should be:

You know every thing that has happened and enough for you to move on with your life.

Don't show your cards!

She might ask ask you what you know about the affair and ask for details to prove what you have!

All you have to say is that you have enough information to move on with your life!

If she does or doesn't come clean and confess, just end the confrontation by saying you have an appointment with your lawyer and you are going out to have some privacy when talking to him, and just leave for 20-30 min.

She needs to believe that you know every thing and you are so confident that you already have a lawyer!

If she comes clean, then ask for a full detailed time-line of the affair and it has to match exactly what you know, any lies it will be over.

I wish you luck buddy.

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

posts: 145   ·   registered: Mar. 13th, 2020   ·   location: Germany
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Buffer ( Member #71664) posted at 10:27 AM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Just be a ice man, cool calm and try to not get too flustered when she blames you and C for forcing her to the man who she hired to mentor her and her business.

Oops hope that doesn’t get out after the confrontation. That her POS sleeps with his clients on the side.

One day at a time.

Buffer

posts: 1191   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
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Bigger ( Guide #8354) posted at 12:06 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

The confrontation is simply to let her know that you are aware of her affair.

There won’t be any life-altering decision made or taken at that confrontation. At best a direction or indication. It might lead to her making some promise to end it, but frankly that promise won’t hold any weight. It takes a couple of days for the trauma to wear off and to create something akin to a normal environment to even start discussing the future.

If you follow my boilerplate you will see that I’m not suggesting you try to solve your problems in the confrontation. It’s simply stating you know and that for now you are behaving in all ways as if she’s decided to remain in infidelity. Once you have confronted you step back and see how the bricks fall.

One of the best ways to deal with crisis-situations is by responding in an unexpected manner. Your WW expects you to be angry – so be calm and collected. I know you are having an affair, and this is my response [follow boilerplate text]. I’m making a tuna-sandwich – want one?

A typical-in-90%-of-all-cases then confrontation is followed by accusations and justification. SHE WILL BLAME YOU. That’s why you use the stock answers I suggested. I don’t get the problem some have with using “sorry” in a sentence. Back in my days as a cop I was courteous and polite to all – even when I closed the cell door on them. It’s about getting results and not about winning petty arguments. Your WW will be expecting an argument, door-slamming and crying. She needs that to help verify why she “had” to cheat. You being calm and collected removes all that from her.

Arguments will only move the focus off the real issue. This is not the time to discuss if you weren’t attentive enough. This is not the time to discuss her unhappiness. This is the time you let her know that you are aware of her affair and that you do not share your wife. That if she wants the marriage, she needs to let you clearly know and then show you with actions over the next days and weeks.

------------

To simplify the process ahead then I like to suggest you decide your destination is to get out of infidelity. We generally agree that there are two ways to get out of infidelity. If you like, then two paths you can walk along to get to your destination. You can divorce and once you have removed yourself from your marriage and the WS you reach your destination. You can reconcile and if you and WS walk that path then eventually you reach the destination.

To reconcile both WS and BS need to commit to it. There is no way only one person in a marriage can reconcile the marriage. Remember: one spouse can not reconcile the marriage. If she decides to remain in infidelity – either with your knowledge or secretly – then the path of reconciliation is completely closed.

To divorce only one person needs to want to divorce. No matter how much one might want the marriage then if the other wants D then D is inevitable.

Fortunately for those that aren’t decided the two paths run parallel for quite some time, and you are allowed to change paths. Just keep in mind that if R is closed you still need to keep momentum.

Irrespective of R or D you need to understand what divorce looks like. Irrespective of R or D you expose. Irrespective of R or D you need to start your personal healing.

This gives you some time. You can outline your determination to get out of infidelity and if your WW shows with action as well as words that she’s really committed to reconciliation then we can guide you on the next steps. But even in best-case scenarios that’s some days ahead.

-------

I don’t agree with Thumos that a poly is for now.

A poly is only relevant if you want to reconcile. If you want to go that path and your WW does so too then the poly is used at a certain point to confirm if she trusts you enough to be truthful. IMHO a poly is a one-off test that helps you determine if your WW is reconciliation material. If you go that path, then the “truth” takes some time to come out. There are tweaks and nuances – some accidental and some intentional – that take time to get into daylight.

As part of R conditions you demand the truth. It takes time. The answers she gives now will create new questions. The answers she gives now will change. Some significantly. It’s better to set a date where you think you have asked all the major important questions and she claims she’s given the true answers. A poly then tells you if that’s true or not.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

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thirtyyearsmore ( New Member #70589) posted at 12:44 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Just want to echo everyone else's advice. Just might add don't over think this. She cheated. You are informing her you know.

Don't give give any information on how you know.

Pay close attention to whether she continues to lie and gaslight you.

Never reveal everything up front.

The ratio of her talking and your talking should be about 80/20. She's the one that needs to do the explaining.

Also record the interaction if possible without her knowing. You'll regret it later when the backtracking starts.

Good luck.

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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 9:41 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

OK, it's done.

I haven't offered reconcilliation, and I have managed to pull the truth from her. I have set some boundaries and she has suggested some too, which we have refined. I have been very clear that the marriage is over, and we are going for a divorce at this point.

It's too much to process right now, but I managed to stay cool, calm and detached. I did not yell or lose my patience, and allowed her fantasy world to crumble under it's own weight.

It's astonishing to see just how delusional someone can be. Even when I told her I knew the truth, she lied. I've never seen this before.

I have sent her to stay away from the home as I cannot trust her, and I think that really hit her hard. So I'm now alone in our house, and the silence is deafening.

So much to digest and think about, but for now a cup of tea, and some rest is in order.

Thankyou again to everyone who helped. I don't think I would have been able to get through today without all of the advice and thoughtful comments in this topic.

Technical question: Do I just continue this thread with updates, or should I start another in a different forum? Or do I start a new thread in this forum? I'm looking for advice on next steps, and I have questions about verifying boundary compliance etc...

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id 8583576
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Mrhealed ( Member #46868) posted at 9:53 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Good job!!

One question

Did you tell OM girlfriend??

"Infidelity is not a victimless offense. If she cheats on me, then I am a victim. If she intentionally cheats on me then I am an intended victim." by DoneGone

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DictumVeritas ( Member #74087) posted at 9:56 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

freefaller,

That was tough and only the first hurdle. Did she at least express regret?

Yes, you keep updating this thread. It's easier to keep everything together, both for you and those who want to offer support or read up on your progress.

Tonight is going to be hard. Please avoid alcohol. If you have a sleeping tablet, I'd recommend you take one to help you sleep.

Tomorrow being Saturday, try to keep your hands busy. Manual labor, exercise a hobby. If possible have a friend or family member you can confide in around for at least part of the day.

Strength to you and well done. You are taking the first steps on your road out of infidelity.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 4:07 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

posts: 225   ·   registered: Mar. 22nd, 2020   ·   location: South-Africa
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:02 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

What boundary did she propose?

Did you notify the OM's girlfriend?

Your wife will warn him immediately that she's been caught.

It's very difficult to accept that you can't control R (if that's what you decide) because you can't control her.

You can only control yourself (and D is 100% within your control).

You did everything correctly.

She is not the girl you married.

Be civil but guarded, do not trust anything she says. She is no longer your friend or confidant.

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8583587
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:06 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

I suggest you stay in this forum until you file for divorce (and then move to the divorce forum).

If R becomes an option, move to the R forum.

You're probably replaying the confrontation in your head. It's normal.

Feel free to: share, ask for advice or our reaction, or to just vent. It helps.

See your doctor for help sleeping and dealing with anger/anxiety (they've seen this before and know exactly what you need).

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 4:06 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:09 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Even when I told her I knew the truth, she lied. I've never seen this before.

Her reaction is very typical. Your wife is a typical adulterer. I don't say that to be mean - but make you aware.

posts: 2409   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:22 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

The reaction sounds a lot like the space alien phenomenon I talked about before. That's why I said you didn't quite know what you were dealing with before the exposure. Now you do.

Have you told her family? I recommend it. I also hope you haven't waited to tell the OM's girlfriend.

Exposure tends to make the cockroaches scatter.

I don't understand the reference to her setting boundaries on you - that sounds like you are falling prey to her false equivalencies, but maybe you can lay out a little more detail when you have time.

I don’t agree with Thumos that a poly is for now.

A poly is only relevant if you want to reconcile. If you want to go that path and your WW does so too then the poly is used at a certain point to confirm if she trusts you enough to be truthful.

I agree with Bigger about the polygraph. I thought you wanted to explore R. A polygraph is for R. If you think you know enough and want a D, then by all means move forward with that with all alacrity.

Don't give her a moment to catch her breath. She doesn't deserve it. She certainly had no such consideration for you.

In any case, I would not give much time at all to outline the truth for you. One of the biggest mistakes I made was giving my WW all the time in the world. She either steps up or doesn't. It's not complicated. If she doesn't and pretty damn quick, it's GTFO (but this shock and awe really only works in the initial stages).

Hope you have as restful a weekend as possible.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4217   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583594
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:24 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

It's astonishing to see just how delusional someone can be. Even when I told her I knew the truth, she lied. I've never seen this before.

You will continue to be astonished at the stone cold liars they can be and how manipulative and self-serving they can be. You haven't seen the half of it yet, unfortunately.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4217   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583595
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keptmyword ( Member #35526) posted at 10:41 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

It's astonishing to see just how delusional someone can be. Even when I told her I knew the truth, she lied. I've never seen this before.

It is indeed astonishing to see, but it is not uncommon.

Like you, I had red-handed evidence that completely and unquestionably exposed the truth.

When I confronted my XWW, she denied and lied, and denied and lied some more.

Your wife, like my XWW, has been lying to you to avoid the consequences of behavior she knows is horribly wrong.

You were the very person who was never supposed to find out - but you did.

You were the very person she made the greatest vows to that she was supposed to protect over any other - she instead committed the ultimate betrayal.

She solemnly vowed to you that she would be honest and that, more than any other, you could bestow your unquestioned trust in her - and she willingly betrayed that sacred trust.

She wanted to avoid all the accountability of her behavior and now, forced back to reality, she is forced to face it.

Most people like this will resort to lying, even after getting caught, because it is easier than facing the ugly reality that their behavior created.

When the returns on lying diminish, then the blame shifting and excuses will likely come - be prepared.

My XWW, like your wife, also had a “friend” who supported, condoned, encouraged, and helped facilitate her affair and keep it a secret from me and our kids.

My XWW’s shitty “friend” was also having her own affair at the same time and my XWW was likely helping her as well.

Be advised, your wife is highly likely going to be spending much time with this “C” person because she will be offering your wife a buffet of comforting excuses and bullshit as to why all of this is your fault and that none of what she did would have happened if it wasn’t for you.

Any and all blame she attempts to foist on you or your marriage should be immediately, absolutely, and forcefully rejected.

Know this: NONE of what she has been doing has anything to do with you or your marriage - nothing.

Don’t even begin to discuss or debate anything sounding like an excuse or blaming you - just shut it down immediately.

I hope she is one of the very rare ones here that has a “what have I done?” epiphany quickly, comes completely clean and honest and is willing to move mountains to rebuild what she has destroyed.

It has nothing to do with you.

Filed for and proceeded with divorce.

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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 11:23 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

It's astonishing to see just how delusional someone can be. Even when I told her I knew the truth, she lied. I've never seen this before.

True story - cheaters lying when caught red-handed is about as common as it gets.

Cheaters are basically walking stereotypes. They do the same shit over and over. You can basically set your watch by their behavior.

Technical question: Do I just continue this thread with updates, or should I start another in a different forum? Or do I start a new thread in this forum? I'm looking for advice on next steps, and I have questions about verifying boundary compliance etc...

You're gonna have to learn how to spy properly if you really want to verify that she is keeping to the boundaries that you require of her.

If you are truly game to know what she is doing, ask and I will tell you how.

What are you waiting for? Expose the sack of shit cheater she was messing with to his wife!

posts: 873   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8583627
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Butforthegrace ( Member #63264) posted at 1:56 AM on Saturday, September 5th, 2020

Most posters find it most helpful to simply continue in this thread. It maintains continuity.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

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ramius ( Member #44750) posted at 2:18 AM on Saturday, September 5th, 2020

It's astonishing to see just how delusional someone can be. Even when I told her I knew the truth, she lied. I've never seen this before.

Cheaters make such good liars because many actually believe what they are saying. The rationalization hamster runs on its wheel at 500mph. Thus they believe their own bullshit.

Glad you are getting out.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1604   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
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Topic is Sleeping.
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