SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

New here, first post.

Before I even start, and ask my question, I know what needs to be done:

Talk to my Wife, talk to my Pastor, talk to a lawyer. We’ll come back to this.

So, for about a year my wife has been growing apart from me, showing me little love and affection, etc. About a month and a half ago she quit alcohol, started exercising, and changed her diet. A little before this she had begun to get deeply involved with internet self-help spiritual gurus. She didn’t really talk to me about it, but she didn’t hide it either, in fact she left her notebook containing her “homework” on the kitchen table next to her computer. A couple weeks ago, I decided to take a look in the notebook. Apparently one of the things the internet charlatans tell you to do is something called “surrender writing” where you put on some spacy music, light a candle, get out a pen and a piece of paper and let the universe guide your hand. I saw the writing. I felt like I was punched in the gut…page after page it went on…..

My wife is in love with our church Pastor.

At this point I don’t think there is an affair, in fact, he might not even know. But it is clear she is fantasizing about a life with him.

So, obviously the first thing is to talk to my wife, right? Well, we have a big family trip in the couple weeks to take our kids (we have two small children) to see their grandparents (my mom and dad). Knowing my wife, if I confront her, this could blow up and wreck the trip, which would not be fair to my kids and my mom and dad. Also, I’m not sure if I violated any privacy laws by reading a notebook that was left lying on the kitchen table. This where asking a lawyer comes in, but I don’t have the funds to consult a lawyer right now. I could go to the Pastor, but I would like to show him the evidence, which again I am not sure if looking through this stuff (and making copies, if I wanted to) was going to get me in trouble further down the road should things go poorly with our marriage.

I’m totally committed to saving our marriage. In fact, a week ago we agreed to go to marriage counseling after we got back from our vacation…and agreed we would asking the church Pastor. Knowing what I now know, my first inclination was to go a different counseling route, but now I’m actually thinking that going to him for counseling might be revealing.

Anyway, sorry for the long tale. It’s killing me.

Any advice, especially informed opinions about if admitting to looking in the notebook would get me into trouble, are welcome. Like any first thread in a post, there’s more to the story, but we’ll get there….

Most of the time I would say go to the pastor.

Don't do it this time. You can't know how far this has possibly gone. Would he be truly honest with you?

Lay low. Find a good VAR (voice activated recorder) and Velcro it to the bottom of her car seat. You should have whatever evidence you need in a few days.

I wouldn't worry too much about her privacy. You're married, if it's not the bathroom usage, she should have nothing to hide.

Has she ever done anything like this before? Is she secretive with her phone? There are signs, but from what you posted, no definitive proof.

Welcome to SI, glad to meet you, sorry that you had to find us.

Head up to the yellow box, upper left, and check out The Healing Library. In it are links to Abbreviations, the BS FAQ (item #11 of which, The 180, is often recommended here), the WS FAQ, online Articles and (mostly) print Books.

There's a true observation on the site, "you have to be willing to leave the marriage in order to save it." This is a true saying. As long as you are not prepared to completely walk away then you're giving control over outcomes over to your WW (Wayward Wife). If the ultimate loss if the marriage is not on the table then what reason could she possibly have to stop what she's doing? Because she's nice? Based upon evidence, she isn't nice right now and she's got no reason to go back to it.

If you haven't already, you're going to start riding The Emotional Rollercoaster. Your emotions will swing wildly from rage to hate to anger to love to (maybe) crying sadness and horrible loss. This is natural. I repeat myself, this is _natural_. Don't be ashamed. Do keep your hands and feet and head inside the car at all times. Enjoy the ride, it'll be brutal at first and then calm down for a bit. Then it'll get brutal again, but for not as long.

If you want to react appropriately you have to analyze the real situation here. She has feelings for another man. This has impacted her feelings for you. You are in love with her, but she likely isn't in love with you right now. She might still love you, "like a brother." This is what leads to the famous line, "I love you but I'm not in love with you" (ILYBINILWY). Brutal to hear.

She's been detaching for a while. Right now _you_ and her family are _not_ her primary concern. You've become, to her, just like every other man on the planet. She just doesn't really care. You, however, have one disadvantage here - You're "in the way" of her being with (in her mind) the man that she is having feelings for. Since you're a barrier she will, naturally and hurtfully, resent you. Her respect for you will drop and you begging and rushing around trying to save things will make you appear weak in her eyes and she'll resent you even more.

Crazy? Yes. natural flow of events in this situation, Yes again.

We have a fair amount of Christians on this site whose WS (Wandering Spouse) was involved with either a Church leader or another parishioner. You have uncovered the feelings, but you haven't uncovered the whole truth. By the way, take pictures on your phone of her notebook and then email those pictures to some email that she does not have access to. She's likely to go a bit ballistic when you reveal what you know and try to erase all of the evidence and convince you that you're crazy/it wasn't that bad/whatever. That is known as "gaslighting", from the play, "Gaslight".

She might also promise to never do this again and just let it go, known as "rugsweeping." Things swept under the rug grow and fester in the dark and come out years later all sharp teeth and big fangs and cruel claws. Don't rugsweep.

Frankly, my best advice to you would be to go over to the Pastor's house, with proof, and sit Pastor and his wife down and show your evidence and tell your story. This gets at least Pastor's wife on alert that another woman wants her man. Pastor should, again frankly, recuse himself from counseling on this since he'll be appearing to your wife as some sort of Knight In Shining Armor, trying valiantly to save a marriage that she no longer wants.

Go read The 180 (item 11 in the BS FAQ in The Healing Library). It is for _you_ to detach a bit so that you can more accurately assess and deal with the situation.

Good luck. On this site (( )) are hugs and I do the fist bump }{. Have a fist bump }{

Welcome brother, sorry you're here.

Please take advantage of The Healing Library, linked in the yellow box in the top left corner.

I tend to agree with the above, don't go to the pastor just yet.

Check your phone call and text log, as well as her social media and email accounts for any communication with him.

When you do decide to speak to him, make sure that both he and his wife are there together while you share your concerns.

Providing the pastor is not involved here, I would ask for a referal for another counselor.

It is time to sleuth.

She may just be articulating a crush. That is actually a very very healthy thing to do given she has the self-control to not work on it.

With that said, take pictures of EVERYTHING.

A couple things.

First, thanks for everything. My hands are shaking its so heard to type, but thanks.

Recording conversations in my state, with one party not knowing they are being recorded, is illegal. What good is this evidence if I can't admit to having it?

The Pastor is not married, he's recently separated.

I am pretty sure there is no affair, and he does not know. I say that because the latest page of writing in her notebook, written last night, indicates that she wants to tell him how she feels.

I fully intend to go to the Pastor after our vacation, but again, I'm nervous about bringing him the evidence in case I've done something illegal in getting that evidence (and yes I took high quality digital photos of each page, and emailed them to myself on an account she does not have access to, so the dates can be proven).

Again, thanks for the support. I'll do the background reading.......

The Pastor is not married, he's recently separated.

Call his wife. There's a public story why they are separated and then there's a private story.

The best way to make this crap wither and die is to expose to the parties involved. Also consider, for later, telling her family.

Yikes, I was on the side of it just being fantasy until I read that the pastor is recently separated. It could be totally unrelated or it could be VERY related to what your wife wrote. I was on the side of wait and observe. Now I'm on the side of start investigating this right now. Don't tip your hand yet. Investigate and gather evidence before you confront.

As for legality, who gives a crap. Is she gonna call the cops on you for investigating her possible cheating? No. This is not a court of law, this is your marriage, your life. The evidence is for you not a judge.

I would edit my above suggestion, -but- it has been a short time and you might not notice the change, so...

Really re-think about the calling his wife thing. I suggested it because the Pastor might have a history of this, or he might have noticed the way that your wife is fawning over him, or his wife might have noticed yours fawning over him, or...

If it is in fact a fact that she hasn't told him yet, though... I'm not sure what telling Pastor's wife would accomplish. It would certainly expose this to the light of day (a good thing).

There are positives and negatives here. Let's all think and discuss with this group.

A separated pastor...HUGE red flag the size of Kansas.

Do NOT let her go near him again for any reason, ever.

Again you have nothing to worry about concerning privacy, get copies of picture of that notebook ASAP! While it may be illegal to record, generally there is no need for concern if it's for your own personal use...obviously it could not be used in court but if it's just for you to find the truth, do it.

Again, check your phone records, her social media and email if possible.

I wish you all the best, and you are lucky that you found out that your wife has a crush on the pastor, and you saw some notable changes in her.

However, I agree with Sharkman, she might just articulate a crush and as long as she keeps within her boundaries and keeps no contact with the pastor then there might not be an actual problem, she might just get and want to get over it, hence the writing.

So, what do you do? As many said, you do some research on the pastor, why did he divorce? You keep an extra eye on your wife. And you install boundaries, meaning that you and your wife will move to another church with another pastor, and you go on a vacation with your wife as soon as possible to remove yourself and her from the area. You agree with her 'no phones' during holiday, so we can have maximum attention for each other. And most important, you talk to her, for instance say 'Well, I noticed that you really like pastor-guy not?, what is up?, do you value our marriage and God?, if so then...'.

One thing on the evidence gathering. You don't need to prove this in a court of law. At this stage you need to find out what's going on in your life. What your wife is doing definitely affects you right now.

I'd say lay low and keep an eye and ear (VAR) out for trouble. As Sharkman and others have said, maybe its just a little fantasy story over a infatuation brought on by the spiritual internet crap.

Don't tip your hand yet, and NEVER reveal your sources. Research the pastors history as a precaution.

I am assuming the W does not know you have read this. And btw, quit worrying about recording or reading private stuff from your wife, it's not like you are going to need this in court.

I'd start by " just happening to talk to her about anything while she doing the online mumbo jumbo, and ask what she's looking at, engage in a conversation about it, what brought this on, what issues is she trying to address, etc.

Prepare in you mind how you present a few questions, then listen carefully to the answers she gives, and even closer to what she doesn't say. Don;t let her brush it off. It's an opportunity to discuss deeper problems that you (we,as married folks) rarely ever do anymore.

You need more information about where she is in this thing before you make a move too early.

In reply to your question about what good recordings would be - They would give you the truth. Admissible or not, you would know when you ask her a question what the truth is. Therefore, you could know when and if she's lying to you.

If you do that do not reveal your source(s), that'll encourage her to find away around your source.

Definitely keep her away from this pastor. I don't want to be insulting to your wife but if she's falling for the hooey online then she's definitely susceptible to being duped by a religious leader into a sexual relationship. It happens all the time to the more naive among us. As leader of your family, and seemingly the less naive of the two of you, you need to watch from crap like this and put a stop to it. I'd put a stop to this online horsesh*t she's falling for too. Nothing good will come from it.

My wife was also sleeping with a separated pastor. His story to her was that his wife wanted to separate so she could focus on being a better mother....

Huh?!?

I called his ex and she said they had separated because he screwed anything that moved. Get her side before you talk to him.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 9:57 AM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

I've found just as much infidelity happens in churches and with pastors as anywhere else. Sad, but it is what it is.

Stay quiet and get your sleuthing pants on. You want to know what you are facing before you make any moves. Act normal and NEVER REVEAL YOUR SOURCES if you end up in confrontation.

Further, if you are upgrading the boundaries, which you should do, and she is affected by stuff from the internet via her notebook, why not secretly pull the plug out of the internet (sorry, internet is down, contacting the helpdesk - not)?

If your wife is a person who gets infatuated easily, and is looking up stories that are influencing her or your marriage in a bad way, that is a recipe for disaster.

Just to say, my ex was also a person who was easily influenced by others and she could become passionate about things including ideas and lifestyles that I would have preferred to have kept out of the door, if you understand what I mean. Of course, everyone is allowed to explore and try out new things in this world, but if it includes spiritual gurus etc. and can be potentially harmful to others (e.g., the marriage) then my alarm bells start to ring...

In this context, I even considered installing a scrambler in our house to block all ingoing telephone and internet communications, to up the boundaries, but found out that that is illegal in the country where I live.

How long are you married? And can you not just go to another church?

With many lawyers the first consult is free. Look into that in your area.

Also the VAR is not for public consumption. It is only for your own use. Adds to your private knowledge of what is going on and helps answer - is she talking to anyone about this? are there any "friends" encouraging her to go for it?

I find it hard to believe that she would write she is in love with him if they do not interact personally and in private. Otherwise it is just a fantasy.

I agree that you should consider "sleuthing" a bit more to find out if your wife is having any inappropriate contact/conversations with the Pastor. If she has not, might I suggest you do a google search on the term "limerance". I'd not heard of this term until a few years ago, and once I read up on it I realized that I have myself had a few limerant episodes over the years.

I have a different take than some here. In all likelihood, I think your wife may be having a limerant episode and has focused on this Pastor. She will probably be horrified by your discovery of her notebook (btw, it was in your house in plain view, in no way did you violate any law).

If you are able to rule out that your wife and the pastor have any inappropriate contact, I'd frankly have a talk with her. Without getting mad, tell her you saw her writings and realize she has feelings for the pastor. Ask her if she's acted on them (you should know the answer hopefully by then), and what this means. She should understand that these feelings are likely rooted in fantasy, much like a teenage crush. That's what it is. You may be able to break her out of the fog of this, but IMO the best things you can do are: 1. switch churches so she doesn't have contact with the pastor (seeing your limerant object, if that's what this is, is what keeps it going), and 2. don't see the pastor for counseling.

Frankly, if your wife hasn't confided her feelings to the pastor, I certainly wouldn't let him know! Given that he's newly separated, this could plant an idea in his head he'd never have had otherwise.

Just another viewpoint from a woman who has had a few limerant episodes over my years (PS, I've never been a WS, either emotionally or otherwise, these crushes were always one-sided and never confided).

[This message edited by HelpingHand at 12:00 PM, June 22nd (Thursday)]