I would like to thank everyone for responding to my post. I appreciate it.
I will respond individually below:
sisoon
I think your comment is good advice!
My reco is to define the R that you want in measurable, observable terms, to prepare yourself to call an end to R, and to confront your W with your concerns.
This is the difficult part I guess. Or at least I'm having a hard time coming up with what R should look like.
This0Is0Fine
Your wife is doing the "haphazard but well intended" method of reconciliation also referred to as "detain and torture".
You could be right. However she never says anything like "You should be over this by now", or "I said I was sorry!", she just resists me whenever I ask for things.
The rely-on-my-own-judgment approach usually magnifies the pain and leads to a more drawn out blood-letting of the marriage until it dies.
She isn't really doing the rely-on-my-own-judgement thing since she is in IC. It might actually be worse though since I don't think her IC is someone who knows much about how to address infidelity. She has had her read two Ester Perel books, and said my wife "did the right thing" early on when she protected the feelings of her affair partner at my expense.
Unfortunately her IC is an area I have zero control over; so I will just have to accept it whether I like her or not.
Notsogreatexpectations
It's difficult to convey enough information in a single post to paint a clear enough picture without writing a book. I know her pretty well (or at least I thought it I did before the affair), and to me it seems like she is having remorse based on her attitude and her actions.
I made some of the same mistakes that I think you are making. You jumped to R before you had gathered enough facts, but you know that. Second, you are trying to make your WW change. Brother, you can only change you. She will change if she wants to.
This is good advice. I need to focus on myself, and be clear with what I want to see from her.
OhItsYou
The bad things in your list to me, are really bad.
Yeah I agree. It's causing me a lot of concern. However like I said above it might look worse than it is because it's difficult to convey enough information in a couple of posts to get a clear picture of whats going on. Also I forget important facts (sorry).
For example I forgot to mention that she was the one who told me about the affair in the first place. That told me that she did want to reconcile in the beginning which was part of the reason I worked so hard to fix things. She could have kept it a secret and let me find out in other (worse) ways if she didn't care about reconciliation.
She was also the one to suggest IC and MC, and found a couple of our MC's and signed us up for them.
Consequences are important
I think this is very true, and the big mistake I made early on. But what to do about it right now is less clear. Especially when she seems to be willing to R except for the resistance to all my suggestions that is...
RocketRaccoon
Hmmm. looks like you are putting the cart before the horse, in that you are deciding to R from the get-go, rather than taking a step back to assess the situation holistically, where you can then make sound choices/decisions on which pathway to take, R or D. You are only taking all the actions that you think you need to head towards R.
I 100% agree. In my shocked and confused state I made many mistakes. And I'm sure I will continue making them, hopefully less though.
When you have to spoon-feed a reluctant party, they will probably just go along with what you want, just to make you happy and save themselves grief. This course of actions seems to stem from your desperate need to R and not consider any other pathways.
This is part of the reason I made this post in the first place. I'm concerned that in a year or two our marriage will actually fail because of whatever is driving her to resist my efforts.
You are trying to push your WW towards R, and she may or may not want R, so both your end-goals are not matching, which keeps you in limbo.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I think she is into R as long as I can "take responsibility for my part in the rift in our marriage".
She told her best friend early on, that she is willing to try for R as long as I am willing to change. What!? OMG.
The1stWife
From experience I can tell you after my H’s first affair he never admitted to, he had no remorse. And that just made it easier to have a 2nd affair. I rugswept the first affair and made a huge mistake!
After his second affair I was dragging him into R and doing all the heavy lifting. What was he doing? Continuing to cheat. He did next to nothing on his own — just like your wife.
I wouldn't say she is doing nothing. She is doing some stuff, thats why I feel like it's a kind of limbo. She is doing stuff, but also resisting. However this is exactly what I'm afraid of. I can't allow rug sweeping to happen, because we will end up in this same place years later. Especially since she seems to be wanting me to change, implying that if I don't she is out.
hikingout
I think your advice is very balanced, and I appreciate that it's coming from a former WS.
As a ws who honestly probably did worse than your wife in the first six months after dday, I can share a few insights that I think are true for people who have had limerant affairs. Given what you said, that’s what your wife had.
This is again why I feel like I'm in limbo. I don't think she is doing terribly. I have definitely heard much worse stories, that I personally wouldn't be able to work through. So I am grateful she is at least doing this much relative to those stories I've heard.
I agree with the others who said your wife is not yet remorseful. For a while, regret, guilt, shame all are so big it’s hard to let in the rest. Remorse is when they have full empathy over what they did to you. It took me probably 8-10 months for that to start sinking in.
This appears to be the consensus... I guess I'll have to put some more thought to it to see what is really going on.
My advice to you is to focus on yourself, what you need, what you want, and pursue your own healing. We have a saying here about letting go of the outcome of the marriage. Unless you know you are ready to divorce, it’s best to try and detach a lot. Stop trying to pull the mule, so to speak. You will exhaust yourself and the mule will still move at it’s own pace.
This is also good advice, and lines up with the other comments above.
My only issue with the wait and see approach that several people have suggested, is that it seems like my wife wants to sweep things under the rug, and there is no way I'm on board for that. So I'm trying to find a way that I can ensure this is not happening. A way of seeing her making progress to become a safer partner. A way to get out of this strange limbo I feel like I'm in.
Like if she was an alcoholic I would expect her to avoid alcohol, and also attend 12 step meetings. How do I do that with an affair? She says she is working on things with her IC (who I am not a huge fan of), but that is all private and she doesn't talk about what they talk about or do. So I have her continuing to resist me, and saying that she is working on herself. But on the outside all I can see is the resistance, and I just have to "trust" that she is really doing the necessary work inside of herself.
I keep flip flopping between "it's going to work, we are going to be able to fix our relationship!", and "we are just delaying the inevitable, and she isn't really wanting to reconcile". It's exhausting.
[This message edited by Theevent at 4:18 PM, Friday, November 15th]