SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I don’t think talking to the parents first is a good idea, they will just warn her. Keep in mind that after D, chances are you won’t be talking to them anymore. You go your way, she goes her way.

Can you repurpose the trip to be for you and some other friend?

Terrible idea to talk to her parents first . She will know everything ten minutes after you get done. Shitcan that idea.

I’m sure the PI and GPS will get you what you need . Ulnless for some reason OM is not available as you don’t know what his plans are

Very smart move blowing this up before any vacations . You are clear on what you want . Get

It done

It may be bad to talk to them first, not knowing if they will truly hold off telling her. I know after things are done I will not be in contact with them much. I will just try to have a conversation with them soon after the confrontation. I just feel I need to talk to them at some point, calmly and respectfully, just to thank them for everything they have done for me. I just feel it's the right thing to do.

Can you repurpose the trip to be for you and some other friend?

Yes, I possibly could. I will have to check into my options.

I feel weird hoping she will cheat on me when I am out of town soon. Just to get some pictures or GPS info. It's an odd thing to hope for, hopefully he is in town and able to meet up.

[This message edited by serenitynow53 at 2:24 PM, September 15th (Tuesday)]

I'm glad you are using the PI. I didn't and it was the biggest mistake I made. I was going to make an overnight business trip which wasn't unusual and backed out. I advise you carry through.

Even if you have enough to file I would want the proof. There were people (daughters, in my case) that I needed them to know it wasn't for a trivial reason that I was divorcing. I wanted more proof. My XWW very convincingly lied to me by commission and omission. Without proof she could lie and make me out to be crazy, full of shit or whatever it would take very convincingly.

I filed and had my XWW served. It was after the separation. We had to be separated for a year to D. There is an at fault D for adultery where I live in Canada but because we didn't separate immediately after I got proof the law says I condoned the adultery. I had to wait a year. It still took 2 years and 7 months to get it done.

The laws where you live, serenity, may be different but it isn't a quick process. I didn't start to heal until we separated.

I highly recommend an IC. 70% of the people betrayed by adultery suffer from PTSD. I got an IC whose practice involved working with people who suffered from PTSD along with marital issues, adultery and was a Christian as I am. A very good investment in myself.

Call her parents (and other relatives and mutual friends) immediately AFTER the confrontation.

I feel weird hoping she will cheat on me when I am out of town soon. Just to get some pictures or GPS info. It's an odd thing to hope for, hopefully he is in town and able to meet up. I just want something other than the audio, which I can't use for anything but for myself, she can't know about it.

I know you need the footage to avoid alimony but if your PI friend doesn't get anything (unlikely) and you still want to confront her before the vacation trip and she denies everything (likely), I don't see anything wrong with you playing the tape for her, after all what is she going to do if you do ? sue you ? how is she going to prove it unless you hand her the VAR/SD card/flash drive? once you play it you could just give it to a trusted friend/relative for safekeeping, heck I've "seen" cases where the OM/OW actually provides the proof to BS (screen shots, pictures, video, recordings, emails, etc.) in an effort to force a decision or after being dumped by the WS out of bitterness/revenge.

The laws where you live, serenity, may be different but it isn't a quick process.

I know it will not be a quick process. We have to be physically separated one year before D can be filed. I want to start this right away if possible though. I don't want to be the one to be forced to move out but I also don't want to stay in this house. Letting her stay here is too easy for her when she caused all of this. But it may just be best for me to leave. I talked to the lawyer and got the process for moving out and making sure my rights are still intact so I don't lose a claim to the house. I will either need to have a non-abandonment agreement or a full separation agreement that goes over the splitting of everything. I think I will likely get the non-abandonment first so we can get separated and go from there.

I don't see anything wrong with you playing the tape for her, after all what is she going to do if you do ? sue you ? how is she going to prove it unless you hand her the VAR/SD card/flash drive?

This is very true. The lawyer said today that audio exactly like this was used in a case he had and nothing came from it against the recorder, it actually helped. He said he did not know of any law enforcement that would charge me with anything and the case would have to go to court for it to become an issue, which that rarely happens. It is likely a grey area in the law since the vehicle it was in is my property as well, I am on the registration, so he said it could be construed as me doing something to my own property.

I would REALLY love to play it when she denies everything.

Ok so when do you plan to serve her or confront her?

Keep in mind that this won’t be easy. You have been with her a long time. A lot of us BS hate and love our WS at the same time. We imagine that we confront with a sense of justice and vindication and it turns out watching our WS crumble is very hard.

OTOH, she could just deflect all blame, get pissed and leave.

Do it play it for her!

Then get to explain.

One day at a time

[This message edited by Buffer at 1:44 AM, September 12th (Saturday)]

Definitely don’t confront her....yet.

It’s worth so much more to serve them when they are not expecting it. It will be of great satisfaction for you, just to see the look on her face.

Hold your tongue, don’t do what I did, I had it all planned out to serve him when he had no idea, but I couldn’t take it anymore, he did something that set me off and that was that.

You seem pretty confident that you can control yourself until you expose, but, I bet she knows by how you are acting something is off.

Definitely don’t confront her....yet.

You seem pretty confident that you can control yourself until you expose, but, I bet she knows by how you are acting something is off.

I am not confronting yet. I am giving the PI time to gather a bit more. I have been acting completely normal, at least I think I have. She always calls me out on my weird/bad moods when they happen and she hasn't. I have continued making jokes, giving kisses, forcing a good mood. But I know I can't keep it up much longer.

Hi @serenitynow53, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this situation in your marriage and I know how painful betrayal can be. I hope you don't mind me asking but are you 100% sure your wife is cheating on you? Has she cheated on you in the past? Why do you feel divorce is your only option and no chance of even considering counseling or R? Did you stop loving her the minute you found out what you heard. Why did you not just confront them in the car? I know this is a lot of questions and it's ok if you don't want to consider them.

I guess from my own life and marriage experience, I'm always rooting for marriages to be reconciled and feel that divorce should always be the very last option when all other options have been explored and the relationship is beyond redeeming.

I know you're hurting and angry at this moment but I do want to encourage you not to feel that you have to rush and make any major decisions. You are certainly deserving of love that can be trusted, so I pray you can find some light at the end of this situation.

are you 100% sure your wife is cheating on you? Has she cheated on you in the past? Why do you feel divorce is your only option and no chance of even considering counseling or R? Did you stop loving her the minute you found out what you heard. Why did you not just confront them in the car?

I don't mind answering questions. There are many things people consider as "cheating", everybody has their own standard as to what that phrase encompasses for them. For me, I want trust, loyalty, honesty, and devotion. The minute she formed a relationship with another man that she hid from me and lied to me about, whether it is emotional or physical, betrayed everything I expect from someone and everything that I devote my life to giving to others. I don't think she has cheated in the past, but I don't know that for 100% certainty, there has never been anything like this that I have found out or pursued because she never gave me reason to and I trusted her completely.

I don't know that I stopped loving her when I found out. We have had a great marriage and together for a long time, so there will always be some deep down feelings there. What did stop and I don't think I will ever get back, is my trust in her being honest and faithful. I know myself well enough to know that I can never get past that and never trust her again. I do not want to live my life like that, constantly wondering or feeling the need to be suspicious, knowing the lies she has told me and what she has done behind my back and conspiring with others. Some people may be able to get past it and reconcile and be happy... I know I am not one of those people.

I did not see them in the car and was not there, but I know for a fact that it did happen. There was no opportunity to confront.

serenitynow53,

I don't think many people understand Black or White people like me and yourself. Though there are grey areas in some aspects of life, there is no room for it in others.

Infidelity is your Black or White area, a PA is mine. There is no fixing a PA for me, it doesn't matter if she would spend the rest of her life on her knees begging for forgiveness every second, the damage is done and I want nothing more to do with her. This has been and still is my stance as far as a PA is concerned.

I fully understand that stance and it's totally valid for people with these convictions.

I think BellaLee asks some relevant questions.

This site has a sadly high number of betrayed husbands that came here determined to divorce because of their wife’s affair and are still here years later in the same marriage, same wife and maybe the only real change is the affair might be over. Usually hidden behind some excuse of staying for the kids, not affording a divorce or not wanting to lose all their assets. It’s what I call inactive infidelity, sort of like the alcoholic that remains dry on willpower alone, but still keeps a bottle in the house (just in case).

This site also has had numerous posters that come here determined their wives are cheating. I was one of those. I had some behavioral evidence and circumstantial evidence. If I had taken the advice offered here (and on another site) at face-value I would be divorced, for the wrong reason.

That feeling of trust you mention: Each and every BS here on this site has experienced that going out the window. Sad thing is that in our NEXT relationship (be it with the same spouse or a new person) chances are we never experience the blind trust we lost. It’s best replaced with trust but verify, even when couples reconcile.

What made you place a VAR in her vehicle? Why do you have a recording?

What if you discover there is no affair? [I caught my wife secretly communicating with a guy, 2 outgoing calls, a message to him to call her and then one incoming call. Turned out she was hiring a personal trainer for me as a birthday present. Caught her on VAR talking to him, nearly shat my pants in fear of what might be on that recording before I pressed play…]

Would it make any difference if you caught her “early”? As in kissing and making out but no “sex”?

The advice offered varies depending on the goal you seek.

If you are determined to divorce the advice should be based on getting you the best resolution for divorce as possible. In certain situations that might lead to some conflict in what is “right” and in what is “best”. For example: If we were dealing with a workplace affair and exposure could lead to job-loss then we might agree that the “right” think is to expose, but the “best” thing for divorce is that the WS still has an income.

If you are decided on divorce, then these are my suggestions:

If your PI friend isn’t clear on the level and quality of evidence needed for court and infidelity-based divorce, then EITHER:

1) Your state is one of the several that still mentions infidelity as a factor in the division of assets, but in reality it has no impact whatsoever. This is actually quite common.

2) He is a crap PI so I would find a new one. If infidelity really impacted divorce then I would venture that this type of case would be at least half his workload. Infidelity is a lot more rampant than industrial espionage or runaway kids.

Don’t shotgun-search for an attorney. You don’t phone 10 random attorneys searching for one that might represent you. Do some research. Probably know someone that has divorced lately: ask them how they rate their attorney. Be selective.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the conflict of interest. I think we tend to overestimate what is needed to eliminate a firm from representing us.

Once you have the attorney then get info on the impact of infidelity and the level of evidence needed.

If you are still unclear on R or D then I would suggest slightly different things. Main thing though is to know how and why infidelity could impact D.

What about talking to her parents before her? I have a great relationship with them and there is mutual respect there. We are more friends than in-laws. I know they will choose her over me, being their daughter, but I owe it to them to get my story to them and explain where I am coming from. It may be tough after the confrontation to do so. It would be immediately before confronting spouse and they would, I believe, respect me to not call her before I can talk to her. Bad idea?

I think it's a great idea. Let them know the marriage has ended due to adultery. Let them know how much you have appreciated their friendship.... And ask them to not contact your WW until you talk to her. Do this before she can manipulate them.

I want to expand a tad on something Bigger said,

If you are still unclear on R or D then I would suggest slightly different things. Main thing though is to know how and why infidelity could impact D.

If I had a dollar for every poster who stated shortly after dday it was D and no other choice, yet stayed... or those who wanted to word things out with their WS but ended up D.... yep, I'd be retired.

And it was the same with me. I swore to myself I would never lose the love of my life, but it ended in D.

I think making up one's mind ahead of time and refuse to reconsider out of pride... usually end up sorry for their unbending choice. It also clouds their judgement as the process plays out. One never knows how the WS will respond. They may be indifferent when the BS wants to work it out. They may be genuinely remorseful and humbled and beg to work it out when the BS had already decided on D...

I mean, I like how you are approaching in gathering evidence (as much for yourself and to find more truth). I also like the idea of talking to her parents first so they get your side prior to being potentially lied to by their daughter. They can call 'bullshit' on her when she lies to them and they further see your side.

Just take all of this one easy step at a time and let it play out as it will without any preconceived decisions.

Serenity, as to talking to her parents, it’s unfair to expect them to keep that to themselves, even if it’s only for a few hours. You could plan on making them your first call or visit after the confrontation, but who knows what kind of shape you’ll be in. You may not be able to express how much they’ve meant to you in the way that you wish to in that moment.

An option might be to write them an email. You can hit send right before, during, or directly after. You can always follow up in person.

All this talk about her parents…

If this was a game of Chess, it would be like discussing the end-game before even deciding who is black and who is white and playing the first move.

Start with Step 1:

CLEAR legal advice on if and how infidelity factors in divorce. You can do this online if you want, you could get this at the initial free consultation (even if you never again meet this attorney), you could possibly find a fathers-rights advocacy group in your state with a hotline…

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT IMMEDIATE FACTOR.

It beats discussions on when and how to leave town, tracking her vehicle (is it legal?), talking to parents…

The answer to Step 1 will determine the next actions.