SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Trying to give you different view points. There is something very off in all of this. Some of what she says seems to almost want you to D her.

rambler - And I appreciate it. Can you please elaborate though? I'm really interested in this line of thought. Is it things she said that she should have lied about? Or that maybe this really was an exit affair but POS turned out to be scum so I'm plan B and she's in self-preservation mode?

I loved Biggers advice. She is sick and needs to find out who she is. Will you walk by her side to shine the light to help her heal? As a social worker, what has she done now 3 weeks out to start her healing? Sought more intense IC, On-line workshops, support groups. Denial is not a river in Africa. Plenty of heavy lifting do be done on her part to peel back the onion. Marriage Builders.com has been an invaluable resource. Trust your Gut! Continued prayers for the recovery of your family.

W...your story breaks my heart, and brings me crashing back to a year ago when I learned my H slept with another woman. I respectfully disagree with Rambler...there was nothing special about sex between your wife and OM. It was just sex...dirty, nasty sex! That's why she tried to scrub it off after the first time. It took me a long time to come to the realization that what my H shared with his AP was just sex nothing special. You see, I saved myself for my H to me sex was special not something to be casually given away. I could not understand how he could give away something so special especially after 17 years of marriage to me, and two boys we have together. I waited for him, and never considered giving it to anyone, but my husband. Your W was in fairytale land. She was having sex with him not making love to him. It was dirty...it had to be hidden...she is ashamed of it. You are special...you are the father of her children...she wants to make love to you not have sex with you. She was very quick to point out she wanted to make love to you not have sex. As time goes on she will begin to see how dirty it really was with him...how shameful...so shameful it needed to be hidden. I don't know what the future holds...I'm still struggling after a year. But, never think what they had was special! If it was so special she would have walked the day you found out. No, you are special. He is a user...a dirty user. I just wish your wife, as well as my husband, could have anticipated the absolute agony you endure when your spouse is unfaithful. This is a death, and you will have to grieve it as such. You will go through all the stages of grief just as you did when your father died. Just like I did when my father died when I was 15 years old. Except with this there is no reasonable explanation...no comfort...no answer as to why. This is harder, because the person you loved most ripped your heart out deliberately.

[This message edited by lovehurtz at 11:04 PM, August 24th (Monday)]

The following is my latest installment of trying to diminish the POS/OM in your wife’s eyes:

71) What did you do? Anal. She lost it at that and started saying “I’m such a whore. I’m such a whore.”

72) Did you enjoy it? It was okay. Hurt at first. Despite tons of lube. He wanted it. She made him beg. Fed her ego.

73) How often did you do that with him? Three times. Wasn’t crazy about it but he really was into it. (For the record, I’ve never asked. Not my thing. Kinda feel it’s a one-way street, but to each their own.)

Ask her if she told him that she had never done anal before. My bet is that she did.

Ask your wife so speculate on why the POS/OM was so into anal with her. Why did he beg so desperately?

The answer is that he was desperate to possess her totally. To take her virginity and to outdo you in every way he could imagine. He didn’t care about her pleasure he wanted to out alpha you. She endured pain and used tons of lube to give herself to him. His trophy and bragging rights were more important than her.

I’m with you in that I don’t want anal (i.e. she didn’t deny you) but it was still very disrespectable.

83) Why do you want to have sex with me? I didn’t say sex, I said make love. I want to replace everything I did with POS. To take all that evil and make it beautiful and meaningful. To show you how much I love you. To help you realize he had nothing over you. Nothing that mattered other than my own fantasy. To help you heal.

Sweet tender love is supposed to neutralize the fabulous fu@ks she gave him and her a$$? I think that once you’re in the mood you could use some fabulous f@cks and she can keep her a$$.

80) Did she ever think about him while we were having sex? No. Never. She compartmentalized. Family vs. Fantasy. And vice versa.

She’s still compartmentalizing. Family = Sweet love making ***** Fantasy = Whore fabulous f@ck

EDIT: Thanks kaylor

Just to point out it was walloped's wife who called herself a whore.

71)What did you do? Anal. She lost it at that and started saying “I’m such a whore. I’m such a whore.”

kaylor

[This message edited by Graywolf at 6:47 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

I really don't think this was an exit affair. The night I caught my fiancée with her OM she LEFT! Took off with him that night and I was longforgotten. If that was WW intent then the night Walloped confronted her she would have been totally different. Remember at that point she didn't know OM was a POS. So why would she beg to stay, or let Walloped stay, and ask forgiveness. It's true, she told Walloped some things this weekend that I'm sure were hard as hell to hear. It, I believe, was stated earlier that she may have been so candid to try to get him to divorce her. I read that post from Walloped also. She answered his questions honestly because she knew she had to. She told him things she could have kept her mouth shut about. I was encouraged by how forthcoming she was. Look. I think all I'm trying to say is, everyone here is trying to help. Everyone here is rooting for you. I sure as hell am. But please remember. You were the one sitting in front of her, you could see her facial expressions, her body language, and hear her voice tones. So use us like a general and treat as advisors not mind readers. Oh, and another thing I would like to say before I go. That PLAN B shit really gets under my skin. I was told the same thing when my fiancée split. And it really gave me a bad attitude for a long time. You either are her man or your not. PERIOD! like I said Walloped this is just my humble opinion.

This is all very difficult to read from Walloped, let alone a lot of the derogatory comments about his wife being a whore. What do us women call guys who do this? Cheaters, I think.

Please tone down the negative comments about a human being here and let up on the labels. Nobody fits any one label. And, frankly, Rambler - you are out of line and ramble too much. In all due respect.

The more Wall pours out his heart on here, there are dozens who attack the man and his wife, trying to work this out. I realize that's what we're all wanting to do, but, please be gentle.

OK- my point of view is - PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE THE FAMILY HOME. That is the first advice anybody will give you. Yes, you have to work. Yes, you have kids - but they are older and will help you out. Yes - this will be hard. Yes - you need time to sort out your thoughts. But, once you leave, everything WILL change.

I BEG you - do not leave.

Please make your wife leave. She's the one that has been causing all the pain and she's offered to go.

Thank you for listening. I had good advice when I decided to stay in the home once we went to court.

Real sorry you are here my man

Lets see your wife gave herself to another man allowing him to cum inside her on at least 20 occasions, allowed him to do anal with her, during oral she swallowed his sperm then came home and gave you a big kiss. That is enough shit for a Stephen King horror novel

She only "gave" up her affair after she was caught, basically red handed. Now is so stricken with remorse for what she did. Will do anything. No shit, her faithful partner is somewhat pissed at her actions. So damage control it is.

No excuse or reason in the world would suffice if this were my wife. She was upset that you didn't help enough with the wedding so she allowed some guy to talk her panties off and fucked him 20 plus times. What if you had a real issue in the future, what guarantee do you have that she won't go and fuck someone else.

Her affair partner who she had multiple sessions of unprotected sex was in her words just a fuck buddy. To me that kind of a statement is even worse then just to tell you she fell out of love with you and in love with him. She has admitted that she said she loved him. She did. it did not pan out. You are plan B. She all of a sudden realized that you were the better provider the more stable mate so she has said she is so so sorry and will make it up.

My two cents worth. You're choice which way to go. For me after 26 years I just said fuck this, I don't deserve this shit sandwich and she can go fuck whoever she wants as I am done with her. That's when I started thinking about me not her and her fucked up rationalizations as to why she had the audacity to fuck up what I thought was a fairly decent marriage all to satisfy her carnal urges.

Good luck my man

W, ­

I would like to ask your some questions,­

Is your wife a trigger at this moment? T­he sight of her unleashes mind movies or­ anger? OR you feel better around her?

Have you told your younger kids about th­e Affair? If you are leaving home they w­ould wonder why. IMO in better they know­ from you both than find out other way. ­Also if you are trying 180, they will no­tice the distance between you and your w­ife.

Did you already define the dynamics of y­ou being out home? I mean, if you want t­o do 180 and detach, the minimum contact­ with your WW is a must. Not texting unl­ess is about finances, kids, etc. Also y­our need to get legal advice about being­ out of your own home if you end in a co­urt D battle (I doubt your get to that b­ut your wife already proved she is capab­le of do thing you never thought). Be ve­ry careful.

Regarding the interaction with your kids­ without your wife being there, IMO deve­loping a schedule may help.

Other question, before the affair did yo­u spend time with your kids in a family ­way, I mean family activities including ­all of you, your wife included, or it wa­s you and your kids always? If not the n­ew reality will hit her really hard as i­t will be a taste of what would be like ­to be D.

Regarding about your getting out and her­ worries about you get a little revenge,­ I believe that she feels / knows that i­s losing you. She believes that any inte­raction you may have with another female­ in aromatic way will drastically reduce­ her chance to get you into R. IMO a RA ­besides all the negative consequences, t­hat are a lot btw, gives to the BS a ego­ boost, the chance to feel that the grow­n has been levered (unfortunately not ju­st in the excitement and fun but in the ­guilt, shame, ect), the feel desired and­ important to someone else, etc. IMO thi­s is not your case as your WW, as I beli­eve, she never sexually rejected you, ta­lked back to you in a rude way, etc, in ­a nut shell you didn’t notice a things a­bout her affair.

I strongly believe she won’t contact OM ­as she is going to face a bit more of he­r affair outcome. Of course I may be mis­taken but I am betting on you getting R ­as she is doing so far the right things.­ We will see.

IMO a very important thing about 180’ is­ try to be happy, I know it sound ridicu­lous right now but at least try to enjoy­ yourself, try weight lifting if you are­ not into it, get into a new hobby, met ­new people, etc. As I point out before, ­I don’t believe you are into a RA but if­ you start going out, just with friends ­to have a good time, and get some attent­ion from the ladies you may feel an ego ­boost. I am not saying that you need to ­pursuit, just try to enjoy it if it is n­ot a trigger.

Last thing, this is going to hit your ki­ds really hard ( I am not saying you sho­uldn’t get out, I am the living proof th­at is better to come from a broken home ­than to live in one) so try to talk to t­hem about how are they feeling individua­lly. Reassure them that you will always be there and that you both love them ver­y much and let them know that your wife ­feeling that lead her to have the affair­ have nothing to do with them. Better no­t to enter in detail about how your WW w­as feeling before and during her affair,­ tired of being a mom all the time, etc.­ They don’t need to know this as this wa­s part of her rationalization to allow h­erself do what she did.

Well IMO you both have a lot to work on ­to make your separation productive.

Good luck­

Just to point out it was walloped's wife who called herself a whore.

71)What did you do? Anal. She lost it at that and started saying “I’m such a whore. I’m such a whore.”

I teared up and got nauseous while reading the post. I had a take a break and do something else as I felt so gutted just by reading the details. I cannot imagine what you are personally going through.

So your wife is one of those upper middle class women who had an affair because she "deserved" a lover and an affair away from the busy life of her family. And just like the stereotype, she had no proper reason. And considering the details, it wasn't an affair. It was a parallel relationship. And it wouldn't have ended had she not been caught. She would have blindsided with you a separation after a few months saying that she fell out of love for you. That she loves you and but not in love with you. She would have moved out(or rather you would have) while making you jump through hoops while exploring the relationship with the other guy.Everything other than her words point to the same conclusion.

Just trying to analyse the details is pissing me off. She told him she loved him.

76)Did you ever tell him you loved him? Yes.

77)During sex? Yes.

78)Other times? Yes.

Even looking back at the text trying to quote it makes me want to puke!!! If she told him she loved him but did not mean it, how is it different from the I love you's she told you. She told you that she loved you before thee affair. She probably told you she loved you during the affair. She told the OM she loved him. And now she tells you again that she loves you.. At this point, the stock value of her "love" is so low that it would actually be insulting be told that she loves someone.

17)What did you tell him during the first phone call after I confronted you? She was in a panic. Told him my brother saw them. And that I found emails. He was happy about it. Her world had come to an end and he was happy. Said they could now be together in the open. She should leave and go with him. She told him he’s crazy. She never wanted that. She told him she loved him and if he loved her he’d let her go. That she loves me and her family and she could never leave them. She told him she’d always remember him. That he was special (she broke down – couldn’t believe what a fool she was). That he made me feel so special, and wanted, and loved and she’ll always treasure that. He kept trying to convince her, she begged him to let her trying to save her marriage. She begged. He simply said they’ll talk more. Hence all the other calls that week. And the one the following week.

Can you not see it? She will always treasure it. The social stigma of leaving you will be much worse if gets with him..The backlash from her family and her kids and you(she cares in some capacity) will be much worse and will be difficult to continue the relationship.

So he will always be her soulmate that missed out because she had to make the sacrifice her love for family. . She is back with you because it is the "right " thing to do by her family. Not for you. You matter little

Had you not caught the affair, she would have definitely left you with some kind of bullshit justification in her head. She told him she loved him. She told him she'd always remember him. The first week she was making justifications and looking for excuses to leave you until her sister slapped her back into reality(or rather she was scared into realizing what she would be losing).

And until you exposed him to her that he was a married lying scumbag, she was fully in the mode of 'two soulmates separated by fate'.

She doesn't love. She feels guilty. She knows you for a couple of decades, so she hates hurting you. But she doesn't love you. The details tell you how deep the affair was. It wasn't just a physical lust thing.

Sorry, my post is disjointed and probably doesn't make any sense. I go back to quote some text and then I read some other shitty details and forget the context..

[This message edited by kimichi at 6:45 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

And she is not exactly lying because she is lying to herself first.

yeah, he fed her ego my ass. She enjoyed the sex and she initiated it.

rambler - And I appreciate it. Can you please elaborate though? I'm really interested in this line of thought. Is it things she said that she should have lied about? Or that maybe this really was an exit affair but POS turned out to be scum so I'm plan B and she's in self-preservation mode?

I'll chime in. she doesn't know jackshit about what the fuck she is talking about. She is in self preservation mode and is just talking out of her ass. She might be telling the truth according to her but as you might have already guessed, she is in no position to judge that with the best intentions. Remember how she justified the affair to herself..So she is giving you half truths and rationalizations that she thinks are the truth. hence the inconsistencies.

Also, when you say you will verify everything with a polygraph, I am not sure if you can do that.. You cannot give the polygrapher the same 104 questions and make him ask her. As I understand, they will reduce the questions to quite a few(5-10 range) and the questions cannot be specific. I hope someone with a personal polygraph experience can share their experience.

[This message edited by kimichi at 3:24 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

If you need to move out for a while to clear your head then do it. Right now this is primarily about YOU. What you need to heal, what you need to get healthy, what you need period. If you can't see the forest for the trees, get above the trees.

She is going to have to put on her big girl panties and deal with it. If being alone for a few weeks causes her to contact the POS, knowing the consequences, then so be it.

If she is that fragile, then how could you depend on her in the future if something bad happens? I mean a real bad thing. Not this bullshit excuse of "you did not help enough with the wedding, so I helped myself to some strange penis". Or whatever she tells herself so she can sleep at night.

On a lighter note, if you and your brother like stand up comedy I have a suggestion. YouTube: Brian Regan "I walked on the Moon". Very funny guy. Makes everyday things hilarious. Nothing blue and does not get into relationship stuff. So no triggers.

You had a crap weekend, to say the least. Take care, get some sleep. Remember you have value in and of yourself. What she did is no reflection on that. You can sleep well knowing that your integrity is intact.

One more thing about the revenge thing

She was very nervous with her next question and then asked if I viewed this as a separation and was I planning on taking revenge on her and then she started really crying. I said no. I never had any interest in doing that with anyone but her.

So, if you separate from her and have sex with other women, she think that is revenge on her ? She cannot think about anything beyond the context of how it affects her ? Maybe you haven't realized how fake and selfish she has become over the years as you were totally in love with her. Her affair wasn't a small mistake or error in judgement. She would lounge around his apartment nude. Just how comfortable do you have to be to do that.

And when you said that you never had any interest in doing that with anyone, it probably came as incredibly weak to your wife. For a faithful loving spouse, that is the best thing you can tell them but to someone who had a several months intimate affair with another man, it will be incredibly weak. She knows you haven't been with anyone other than her sexually and thinks she is probably the best you can do. But she, she can do better. No wonder she has men fighting over her, right ? (Not exactly in the black and white terms I am using)

I think you have to make a point that you can do fine without her. That you are choosing to be with her, not because you have no other choice.

Her affair partner is a good memory in her life that you will never be able to take away. Some bridges of Madison County shit!! She is Meryl Streep, he is the Clint Eastwood and you are the chump husband(in her eyes) that she is sacrificing her true love for.

[This message edited by kimichi at 3:46 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

wall said

rambler - And I appreciate it. Can you please elaborate though? I'm really interested in this line of thought. Is it things she said that she should have lied about? Or that maybe this really was an exit affair but POS turned out to be scum so I'm plan B and she's in self-preservation mode?

I'll try to answer what is off for me.

Your wife had a very typical affair right out of the Cheater's Handbook. She was on an upward trajectory,the relationship was not on a downward spiral. She said she was getting tired of it but if you plot it out her actions dictate otherwise. Sex frequency increased and she was now crossing lines like holding hands in public.

If you follow the linear progression of most cheaters in this state then in a few months you would have gotten the "I love you but I don't love you" speech.

Nobody is saying that would have happened, but it 'feels' like that this is where it was going. She may have not left you, but that likely would have been because of the children.

This may be causing a trigger for you so I'll stop, but you get the hint. You WILL need to reconcile these "what ifs" with yourself if there is any hope of reconciling.

I do think you're being fair to her by moving out. She gave you some hard truths that, reading some of the recent messages, are deal breakers for many. She lived up to her word (devalued word but word nonetheless) so you owe it to her to grab some space to chew on things. Using these new facts against her would not be productive and just because she did something doesn't mean you ever need to dismiss your own honor.

Talking to her more at this point is useless anyhow. You have all of the facts to allow you to make a decision.

One last thing I'll say is that she is describing her emotional relationship with him accurately but is rug sweeping how it feels in relativity now. I do not feel she is doing this on purpose, but that she's still lying to herself. I say this only because she's made some difficult steps and I hate penalizing her for giving all that she could, at this stage of the aftermath.

53)Was he better than me? No. But it was different. It was more exciting. New. It made her enjoy it more. She was powerful and she loved how it made her feel about herself during. She controlled him during.

54)So, what was so different? She was free. She would lounge around the apartment nude. Drink coffee or eat that way. She could never do that at home. She was like a different person. In a beautiful apartment in Manhattan. No worries. No bills. No kids, no me (that hit her). Just hanging around naked with a man who literally drooled over her.

Ask her what is stopping you from doing the same thing ? Have a different relationship with another woman who did not cheat on him. If she found it so enjoyable, why should she stop you from having the same experience.

Except her words, at no point do her actions are of someone that loved you.

[This message edited by kimichi at 6:37 AM, August 25th (Tuesday)]

Walloped...

You have a PM

Walloped,

I've been lurking and following your saga.

I just wanted to tell you that I feel for you.

I also wanted to reaffirm that whatever happens it is your choice and yours alone.

This is your life...and you don't have to decide your future today or even tomorrow....and you can change your mind a million times....and believe me you will.

Your life...your future...your choice

She still lied a few things, there is no evidence, never will be, and I'm not sure if it is the type you can polygraph. One example, the last call at the sister's house - more was to it than she told you about that call. Likely she called him. She had wanted to call him desperately, she probably did. For "closure." Not to tell him she always will love him, instead to tell him she can't believe he treated her so badly, also she wanted to hear from him that he still wanted her badly, she still wanted that one last "validation." I feel pretty strongly that there is more to this. Think about it in context with how badly she wanted to talk to him the day before, how she could have talked easily with SIL's house knowing you would never know.

So why did she tell you about it at all to you? Answer is because she is at heart a truthful person, and it is easier for her to lie if she mixes in some truth with it. Anyway, this might be the only still lying that possibly could polygraph for, the other lies are about her feelings for the other man. She will have thought about leaving you to be with him, she did some comparisons between you and other man and you won, much more to it than she has told you about it so far. My wife was so much like yours. I don't think the lies are significant, but she is still holding back on a small amount, mostly I think because it is hard to look at herself.

Separation is a bad idea. You have to help repair this thing, and it hurts and it's tough, but if you leave you will feel better and you won't come back, you won't want to come back. That's my opinion, not based on any experiences I've seen with myself or others.

I wanted to call it quits too but I decided to work through it for the kids. I loved my wife, but if there were no kids, I would have walked away pretty easily. Prior to the affair I would have put myself on fire for my wife, I would have laid down my life for her, but I am not a fool, she obviously did not feel the same for me, and I would not and have not felt that same way since. I am happy I stayed, I still love her, but I love myself more than her, and before I think I loved her more than myself. It's all just a feeling inside, it's not like you can measure it.

Anyway, I feel a lot similar in situation, circumstance and even personality, and I think separation probably leads to an end of the marriage. eventually. Maybe that's what should happen.

My wife also spent a decent amount of money to other man.

Juvenile infatuation, that is true, BUT ... I have not fallen "in love" since I got married with my wife as a young man. Maybe that "juvenile infatuation" IS truth of "in love" that just needs time to gel; maybe if you were to meet another woman, the only way to start is with "infatuation." Other man looked like he had good qualities, your wife saw that, she got infatuated, felt "in love," and it was in process of gelling into true love.

What if other man was not already married, if he wasn't such a POS snake? Like I posted earlier, timing and "luck" (I don't feel lucky) (meaning "luck" that other man was such a POS) have a lot to do with her wanting to reconcile. She probably doesn't even feel that way, but I do.