SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If he's been in therapy all these years, then he's been lying through the entire process.

That gives you a very clear sign that bo amount of therapy is going to help him. He prefers his secrets.

You will never be safe with him.

I just skimmed your story but often wonder how much mental health issues are caused or at least exacerbated by having a phoney living in the house gaslighting everyone. The body keeps the score and all that.

All the best and I sincerely hope you and your children can find a way through this to live a wonderful and authentic life away from dishonest people.

[This message edited by VezfromTaz at 11:59 AM, Tuesday, March 26th]

Update: He finally wrote what he claims is a full confession. Eye opening for sure but not surprising given what I had already uncovered. Basically there have been at least 15 separate occasions of extramarital sex, twice with J, once with a woman he met on a trip to Chicago in 2018 and the rest are all sex workers. There would have been more if he was better at picking up women. He also read up on sex addiction and thinks that may be his issue. He was sobbing this morning and saying he wants to kill himself so I told him to ask his therapist for an emergency appt. They met and the therapist wants me to sit in tomorrow. I’m not sure I can get through this if he starts yammering about marriage counseling, Anyway, I appreciate everyone’s input.

First off, I'm so sorry. Infidelity is the worst pain to go through.

Your M didn't cheat - he did. If he spent all the time and energy into your M rather than chasing a new shiny, your relationship would have been stronger. You can tell the therapist that you're not there to discuss MC and will leave the room, put your fingers in your ears and say "La la la la" if it's brought up. Just be prepared to follow through if it does.

Lundy Bancroft wrote a blog about sexual addiction and that people are now using it as an excuse for what they did. And a CSAT (certified sexual addiction therapist) can give the diagnosis. As an aside, SA isn't in the DSM (the diagnosis book that mental health professionals use). Also, don't see his therapist for yourself. It can be a conflict of interest. You each need your own IC, and another one if you do MC.

He needs to work on being a safe partner and not blame anybody else for what he did.

He was sobbing this morning and saying he wants to kill himself

If he threatens suicide again, call 911 and/or the suicide hotline. If he's serious, then they can get him the treatment he needs. If he's doing it to manipulate you, he'll learn not to do that again.

Has he read How To Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair by Linda MacDonald? What is he doing to help you heal?

Thank you Leafields. I did wonder when he was saying he wanted to kill himself if he was being manipulative. For extra insight, I lost my dad to suicide in 1991. He was addicted to drugs and my stepmother was more worried about what other people would think than supporting him in recovery so he never did more than go to a few NA meetings. I know he could have left her if he really wanted to get clean. My point is that if you were trying to get a reaction from me, that is the thing to say. I didn't give it to him. But if it comes up again I will call 911. I will check out the blog you mentioned.

A couple of people have mentioned that book, "How to help your Spouse heal from Your Affair". But here's the thing, he thinks the smallest gesture is a sign that I will forgive him and I'm not ready to make any decisions yet.

If he wants you to consider reconciliation, he would be searching out resources...books,forums,therapy, etc. You shouldn't be finding books for him to read. That's his work.

Considering he's a serial cheater,and it included sex workers, he's continuously risked your life,with no concerns about your safety.

If he really understands how awful his behavior has been, he will do the work, regardless if there is a chance at reconciliation. If his work is dependent upon you staying with him, then he doesn't really want to change.

Tell him to stop asking for forgiveness. Forgiveness is earned, over a long period of time, through honest, consistent, remorseful actions. And, it may never come. Forgiveness isn't a requirement for reconciliation. Many members have stated they have accepted it happened, but will never forgive. That doesn't mean you remain angry,or bitter,or for years you keep this hanging over his head. It simply means his actions were so horrible, they can't be forgiven.

True reconciliation takes years. Literal years.

That he made threats if suicide, with your history, his exceptionally cruel.

It's also a very common tactic with freshly caught WS, who don't want to deal with the consequences of their actions.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:00 PM, Wednesday, March 27th]

Hi Raven,

If you were living in a nice smaller apartment within your financial means, and someone offered you to move into a much bigger house with more disposable income, but at the cost of continual lying and emotional torture…would you take the offer?

Thats your choice right now, just reversed on the starting conditions.

Thanks Hellfire and HouseofPlane. You both make good points. We had a phone meeting with H's therapist this morning. He talked about starting marriage counseling in a couple of months and I said that I'm not at all sure I want to bother. I very much felt like he was telling me I don't have a lot of choices so suck it up and deal with it. I asked him why he thinks he is the appropriate person to help H with this considering it has been years of H not engaging with him. I asked if a CSAT wouldn't be more appropriate? He said he has a lot of experience dealing with substance abuse counseling (NOT the same thing) and also process counseling. And that it isn't his fault if H didn't tell him anything. (Um, if you knew he wasn't being communicative, how about asking me to come in instead of just doing nothing?) He did say he could connect me with a betrayal trauma specialist which I agreed to. He sent me her number and said she is waiting for my call. He also made a of point of telling me how bad it is that I kept digging, that I was just retraumatizing myself. I pointed out that the reason I kept digging is because I knew H wasn't telling me the truth. Honestly, I think I was just as hostile to this clown as I am to my husband.

H is going to a Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting on Saturday. So its a start. H is doing a lot of reading and claims to understand now that what he did was abuse. We will see.

He's likely defending your husband because he's your husband's therapist. He has no obligation to you, so he probably believes that you digging is only hurting his client more.

That said, if your husband is hiding things from you, you can't ever rebuild trust, and he should know this.

I was afraid that would happen. I had an idea you were about to be ambushed.

The therapist clearly has zero idea how to deal with infidelity. He is telling your husband you don't have the right to the truth. He is causing so much more harm. I would tell him he has to drop that IC today. He needs to schedule an appointment with a CSAT.

One thing that he said was correct. It is not his fault that your husband never revealed his activities. He was uncommunicative...I'm sure he talked during his appointments. He just chose not to disclose.

That gives you a very good indication as to how serious he is going to be about future therapy.

I also wouldn't call that IC he's given you the number of. You already know his stance on infidelity..no honesty,no transparency, rugsweeping. He knows how his collegue handles infidelity. Find your own IC.

You were right to say no to MC. He has a ton of work to do,should you attempt reconciliation. Months of IC is needed. Several months.

Also..make no mistake. Your husband knew full well what his therapist was going to tell you. He knew you would basically be told to shut up.

I truly think a separation would help you. If he is serious about R, he will do the work, regardless of the living situation. And it will help you detach.

It's good that you're angry. It will help you find clarity.

Do not share this site with him. This is your safe place.

Many new bs make that mistake. They see the benefit of this site, and think it will help their ws "get it." Typically, the freshly caught ws will use the site against the bs. Or, they read about what they should be doing, and fake it,to manipulate their bs isn't thinking they're remorseful.

New bs want to believe they're the exception. They very, very rarely are.

Thanks everyone for the advice. It is comforting. Today has been a difficult day. I slept for 4 hours last night-been awake since 2am. I had to come to work today since one of my good friends is retiring and today was her party. It has been tough trying to hold my sh*t together in a crowded room but the day is almost over. I started looking online for an IC (not the one that H's therapist recommended) and haven't had much luck yet with one who takes insurance and is accepting new patients. But I assume that is the same everywhere these days.

I did get together with our mutual friend (K) last night and we cleared the air. He had no idea about any of my husband's other extracurriculars other than the one time in California that he was horrified about. He felt terrible but didn't want to tell me unless I asked him. I can't blame him for that. It almost never goes well for the friend who tells a BS that their WS is a cheater.

I will not agree to meet with H and his therapist again unless there is something that I need to communicate.

Just know that I appreciate being able to come on here and vent.

[This message edited by Raven35 at 8:49 PM, Wednesday, March 27th]

He also made a of point of telling me how bad it is that I kept digging, that I was just retraumatizing myself.

Really, being with your husband means constantly retraumatizing yourself.

Why do you keep digging? You say it is to get "the truth" but what good is that truth?

I asked myself that question before I dig. It doesn’t mean that I don’t dig, but it does mean that I’m at least more aware of what’s going on in my head.

HouseofPlane,

Your words are so true! Being with him is retraumatizing myself.

As for asking myself why do I keep digging-that's good advice. Actually, after the meeting with the therapist I had decided I wouldn't keep digging because what is the point? Then yesterday I reread the timeline he created for me and realized that there is all of this extramarital sexual activity up through 2019. Then a gap for the pandemic (lots of porn but no prostitutes). Then he was on dating sites that he claims he never met up with anyone from, just online stuff (which I am not minimizing). But for the entirety of 2022 and the first half of 2023 his timeline is just, "flirted with so and so at the bar". "Tried to get something going but was unsuccessful."

And that REALLY doesn't ring true. I think he thinks that if he admitted to the nameless sex workers that I would stop digging because I wouldn't be able to find anything. So I think there were actual OW. Especially since he deleted his google history for that same time period.

Does it really matter in the long run? Probably not. But if there is any chance that I might want to R, (and right now I am not making any decisions), then I WOULD need to know that.

Just to add to the difficulty of the disentangling process: I mentioned in my initial post that I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease in March 2020. Well it attacked my kidneys and put me into Acute Renal Failure. I had to go on dialysis and was added to the transplant list in January 2021. Because both of my kids and one of my sisters have mental health issues, none of them are candidates to be a living donor. My husband applied and we went through the evaluation process. And my husband is actually a match so was approved to donate one of his kidneys to me. While that was happening, my kidney function unexpectedly started to improve. I have been off dialysis since June 2021. However, I still have damaged kidneys and am monitored closely. My doctor is the Asst. Chief of Transplant at Massachusetts General Hospital and he has NEVER seen this. So its a miracle right? Only there is always the possibility that they could fail again so I am still on the transplant list, just in a pause status.

So the thought had been that if it did happen again, as long as my H was still in good health, that he would donate. And he is still saying he would no matter what happens. But all of this is just too much to wrap my head around.

I tried to quit digging but until his story made sense it was impossible for me. My old therapist told me the same thing. That I needed to stop digging. I don’t think that’s the answer. When he admitted to his first and latest affair it just didn’t make sense that he had not done this before. I think like your WH he selfishly did not want to tell me fearing I would leave and not consider reconciliation. I only had the whole story with a polygraph unfortunately. If your intuition is not making sense then you are not at peace and it will continue to make you uneasy. I am completely at peace with knowing everything at this point. There is a big difference in that feeling.
I agree with trying to separate if you can. I wish that I would have and I’m still considering it. I was anxious around him for so long. I know I had a trauma response just being around him for a very long time. He now has been consistent in actions, therapy, and a good partner but I feel nothing for him. I’m trying to wait it out and see if my feelings change I want my kids to have a whole family. I wish I would have given myself a few months on my own at some point in the last couple years and I may still do that.

I just saw your post about your kidney failure. Wow that’s difficult and does complicate matters a bit. I would hope that he would still be there for you regardless. You still need to heal and do what is best for you in the relationship. It’s doubly difficult when you have a health issue and your spouse is stabbing you in the back. During his last affair I was struggling with our very mentally ill child and he was stabbing me in the back. It’s heartbreaking. I’ll be thinking of you and I know all of these discoveries are so painful.

Saltishealing,

Thank you. It is so helpful to talk to people who have been through this. I wouldn't even begin to know how to pursue a polygraph. I will look into that.

I am trying to figure out how to work out a separation that is actually workable but the only solution I can see is him moving down to our finished basement, which isn't much of a separation. Housing costs are through the roof where we live. His mother is in the process of being evicted and trying to get into senior public housing. His father moved into his girlfriend's house to save money. One of his brothers lives in a camping trailer parked on the property of his bosses construction company. And his other brother MIGHT possibly let him crash there but we only have one car and the brother lives 25 minutes in the opposite direction from both of our jobs.

So anyway, its an ugly mess. And I'm sorry for what you went through. How awful!

Hi folks,

I don't know whether it is more appropriate to post this as a free standing post but will try this. I have a consultation appt. this afternoon with a new IC. I am not sure what questions I should be asking her in terms of her experience with betrayal trauma. Anyone have any suggestions? I don't want to miss something that might be a big red flag and end up wasting my time with someone.

Thanks!