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Z,

Our sex life has been less than mediocre because my W is frankly a prude and I have a much higher sex drive

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This seems to be all too common, but I think for very varied reasons.

I would appreciate some input from the women on this too. Many will say that it is because they don't feel appreciated. I think that is really a minority, the main reason is, in my experience, is that a lot of women, ( those that end up being WW's) have learned how to use sex to achieve what they want. Sex is a weapon, or a tool. They don't really know how to have sex for pleasure without another objective.

Those that wander are using sex for power or control, or in my WW's case, to fit into a peer group and work their way around that pecking order. It is more of a compulsion, whether it is for excitement and adrenaline rush, or the attention she gets because of the drama, (what I call the soap opera syndrome), or for some other goal that in their minds justifies the means. The flirting, the lingerie, the extra efforts during sex are just part of this process to achieve their objective. It seems almost competitive in nature to me.

In my case, the word "complusion" seems to fit the best. The innate drive to do this, to take these risks without really processing what was at stake is the flaw, and I have no idea where it comes from. Was it a childhood trama?, a learned behavior growing up? some sort of insecurity or bad self image compensation?

I have my theories in my own case, but the issue is how to turn that around for your benefit, after all, WE want the benefits, not some stranger.

The only way I have found to do this is to have long hard discussion to find the reasons, and to demonstrate how she is reflecting this behavior. Granted I have only had moderate success at this point, but I'm still working on it, and my WW seems to have recognized and understood, at least to some extent.

I try to explain that she simply does not "love" on the same level, it's not a game or a contest, but a deeper level of personal, private intimacy with a committed life partner.

She's beginning to get it,.... I hope.

I hope you get a few responses from some WW's to let me know if any of this makes sense.

(Excuse if this is t/j)

This is totally not a t/j. In fact, you are bringing up some things that make a lot of sense to me. The soap opera syndrome is something I have been dealing with. It seems that, when things are coasting along or perhaps she is not getting enough attention, there is some "drama" like her fucking hair falling out. Maybe I just don't get it because I am not a woman or whatever. I have become pretty numb to it by now. It is like the boy who cried wolf. Nonetheless, she has been through a really tough year. She did have a situation growing up where she was molested by the son of a babysitter - although it wasn't sex in the sense of penetration, it was sexual. She had pretty much repressed that.

When we do talk about sex, she doesn't want anything other than missionary. I want to take my time and explore and let her have multiple O's, but she doesn't want that. It baffles me and perhaps that's a guy thing, but I don't know. I told her that I would love for her to wear lingerie for me - she never has. She said she was saving the lingerie for a "special" moment that never came. I was pretty confused by this and I think she was genuine. She went through the credit card statements and told me that if she had wanted to hide the purchase from me, she could have just used her Victoria's Secret credit card and I would never have known. This shit is mind boggling to me.

If what your wife likes and enjoys out of sex is what she was doing with that other guy, you may have to meet her there if you want her to enjoy sex with you

I have sort of tried this although it is a trigger. I can't grow a beard or a mustache to save my life - I have a baby face. OM looks a lot older - think Patrick Stewart with a goatee. I can grow some stubble although I think I look like a rat and sometimes I'm just too lazy to shave. This was the case the other night and we were kissing and always comments how she doesn't like facial hair. What a trigger....I mean WTF?? Women are a tough nut to crack - pun intended

Nothing like a rugsweep..... I told WW that this was not going to happen for us. We need to process this and figure this out before we can move forward.

I think your heart and head are at odds on this one. Intellectually you know that you need to process this. That's why you're here and why you feel such angst. But emotionally I think you are holding yourself back from being vulnerable with your wife, which is a normal response to fear that you will get hurt again but not helpful towards your end goal.

When I read your story I didn't see a WW who wasn't doing her part. She has read a bunch of books, tried to spice things up with lingerie, initiates conversations, goes to IC, seems remorseful . . . She always asks if you are OK to the point of annoyance. Why does that annoy you? Is she specifically being insensitive or choosing a bad time to do so? Eventually she will stop asking and then what will you do?

Good job on trying to initiate sex . . . if you want to R, then you must participate in a virtuous cycle which means keep making yourself vulnerable and putting yourself out there. I know all too well the feeling of "Well fine, I give up!" when you feel you are being rejected again. But try to give her the benefit of the doubt that with her books and lingerie and questions she is trying, and that not feeling like it one time when she has had a lot of physical stress and worry can get a pass. Every night and we've got a different story.

It sounds like you're both trying, and that counts for something. I encourage you to hang in there and when your heart seizes up with fear or feelings of rejection, try to take a step toward her instead of away. Try to notice the ways she is stepping toward you and evaluate objectively if she's really rejecting you or if it's something understandable.

This may be totally crazy, but what if *you* buy her some lingerie? I see two people who really want to be intimate and have a better sex life but are having trouble figuring out how to get there. I say keep throwing darts and see what sticks.

I want to take my time and explore and let her have multiple O's, but she doesn't want that. It baffles me and perhaps that's a guy thing, but I don't know. I told her that I would love for her to wear lingerie for me - she never has. She said she was saving the lingerie for a "special" moment that never came.

Oh, I could have written that one.

For some reason, these type of women can't seem to allow themselves to enjoy their husbands. Maybe it's because there is no real reward in their mind. They aren't winning anything new, they aren't getting that sense of "look at me, look at what I did", because they already have you and your attention and it doesn't present a challenge to that screwed up thought process. I have found that flattery, begging, encouragement only seems to make it worse.

The only thing that has a worked to some extent, ( still in mid-experiment with this one) is to have a serious conversation, framed about why she refuses to fully enjoy the deeper level of passion she is missing. You have to find a way to tap into that competitive need for approval, but from you, not someone else.

Challenge her, dare her. Maybe she's the type that you have to tell her she can't do something, just to get her to prove you wrong. Pick your angle.

Tease her into being verbal during sex. " You can't do it, can you?" usually gets her self conscious, then laughing, then a half-hearted attempt at moaning. "Louder, the neighbors want to hear too", and tell her how good it is, how good it feels, just to keep her going and pushing her comfort zone around you. Bring a little tantric sex ideas into it.

Tell her a particular lingerie doesn't appeal to you, then have her pick something out with her, keep pushing.

I think you get the idea. It's a lot of work on our part and you need to get creative and use her weakness against her.

Wednesday are naked massage night.

Dare her to be naked for 15 minutes every evening.

Maybe a boudoir photo shoot?

I need more ideas too, c'mon people, help a brother out here.

Well written sw

Good job on trying to initiate sex . . . if you want to R, then you must participate in a virtuous cycle which means keep making yourself vulnerable and putting yourself out there. I know all too well the feeling of "Well fine, I give up!" when you feel you are being rejected again. But try to give her the benefit of the doubt that with her books and lingerie and questions she is trying, and that not feeling like it one time when she has had a lot of physical stress and worry can get a pass. Every night and we've got a different story

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I always initiate and now she is much more open to it. However, I feel like she is acting and only doing it because she "has" to.

Twisted - great suggestions....I will have to keep shooting the darts

Have you considered a sex therapist for your intimacy issues?

You might find it helpful in the long run while attempting R.

My fWW and I were on the opposite sides of this...I was really checked out in my depression funk and was not meeting her needs emotionally or physically...so as part of our R I had to find ways to really push my sex drive into gear.

It took a little time and patience on her part but I got things going finally and now we are on the same page sexually...and it makes life a LOT better.

Give it time, while actively seeking solutions to the known issues. A therapist may also help uncover other issues and help with them.

I assume you want R, so why not go the extra mile to be sure you can, and to show your WW that you mean business in regards to the future of your M.

Seems weird she has lingerie you've never seen and claims to have had it for a while. Sounds like crap I was saying while actively lying to my H.

She sent you links after asking what you like after you asked her about it - sounds like covering up a trail to me.

Not enough alone but enough to go down the question road.

If you're not totally in recon with all of the characteristics of it, I'd ask HER about her inconsistencies and see what you find out - press issues - ask hard questions. Your reactions aren't the problem here to me - her behavior is.

Edited to add - I've read none of your backstory so my post is fwiw.....

[This message edited by gonnabegr8 at 1:06 PM, July 7th (Friday)]

This is the same wayward wife that first tried to convince you that you were 'confused' about some details and when it didn't work then said she was 'confused'?

Also the same wayward wife that could not come up with a rationale explanation for why a message from the OP was opened and answered?

Now the chain of events is you find new secret lingerie that is out of character for her that happens to coincide with an out of town business trip... when confronted about it the lingerie is disposed of and that is followed up by an over the top dramatic meltdown...

It could all just be happenstance but given the context of how it all is happening I kind of agree with gonnabegr8... this sounds very suspicious. You might want to be a little more one alert...