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I posted about my NPD daughter in Off Topic a bit ago...was so upset, I totally forgot about this thread.

Anyone else here with this awful situation?

I saw IC yesterday and he said since she is using the 2 grandchildren as "pawns", to ignore her and keep sending cards/candy/letters/gifts to the girls via the paternal grandmother who has no idea that DD is this way -- since she is so sweet & charming.

I miss not being able to see or talk to the kids, 3 and 9, and this is tearing up her father/ex as well.

After my D, I cannot believe DD is doing this all because we wanted to see financial doc about money we trusted her with. She's been stalling for nearly 8 years now.

I cannot take much more pain. My son was killed so she is my only child left.

(((dreamlife))),

I suggested you come here because the people here understand NPD (as best as a normal person can) and people who've never dealt with it just can't comprehend and might give advice that would work if you were dealing with a NORMAL person, but will usually have the opposite effect with someone with NPD.

You trusted her with some money? What if it's gone? There's a strong possibility that it's gone. NPD mindset is: "What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine." With that said, would you be willing to drop it in order to see the grands? Or maybe you can work something out with the paternal grands to invite you over when the kids are there?

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 4:52 PM, August 20th (Wednesday)]

It may or not be gone and as IC said, it will always be something else cropping up. Then the cycle will begin anew.

Relatives who know her well have gradually been distancing, too.

She is toxic.

My first ex did not want to "upset" her (it was mostly his $) but she has lied so much we do not know what to believe anymore.

And being our last/only child, we had planned to leave everything to her anyway.

Hi - I'm new to this thread but wanted to add a thought. Have you considered leaving everything you have in a trust fund for your grand children? Something that is set up in a way that your toxic daughter can not get her hands on it? I'm so sorry that you have to go through so much pain :-(

Yes, I have.

The oldest girl is highly sensitive and I can already see how DD is dominating her & bullying v the youngest who has a very brash outgoing manner.

The girls will have no problems with $ in their future and I also have some other causes, charities, etc., lined up.

Dreamlife,

My inlaws are in a similar situation with my xh. Although he has a sister living several states away. He isn't the only child.

What outcome would you like to see?

Are you looking for an accounting of funds? Are you looking for a relationship with your grandkids and daughter?

My answers depend on the outcome you're seeking.

I'm new to this forum and not really sure this is an okay story to post, but I just HAD to share what just happened.

I've been in General and S/D so my story of rugsweeping is out there. We were having one last ditch conversation to see if we can R, but file S papers which would be ready to go should it not work. My idea, as I'm still such a co-d. Anyway his big issue is never speaking about his A's or lies again. I told him I wouldn't do that but I would be willing to compromise. That put it on him so it was out of his control. He started to get red. After a few more absurd things he said that in the past would have confused me, I was clear thinking and was able to calmly refute the sense of what he was saying. He got redder. On three occasions he got up and said it's over. Then sat down again.

As I watched and listened to him I could actually see his narcissism come spilling out. The more sense I made, the angrier he got. I talked about healing myself through a recovery program that's he's been in for 3 months, I talked about being excited to finally put some of my co-d issues aside, and about getting to a place to be happy. He was crimson by that time and told me "I hear you talking about you, what you want, what you need, but (and he was shouting) you didn't mention me at all. It's all about you! You are so SELFISH!"

It hit me like a ton of bricks. I was actually watching his dysfunction in action. Him calling me selfish? He's the king of selfish. So I let him rant about my selfishness, blaming me, telling ME I blame shift, and on and on. He let me have it. And I took it. When he was done, I looked at him remorsefully and told him I could understand how it seemed selfish. I apologized because I assumed he knew my self improvement would be for the betterment of US together in R. And I recited him back to him when he said 25 years ago in regards to his career 'what's best for me is what's best for our family'.

He got such a look of what I don't know, but I've never seen it before. He got up, said it's over and said its too hard to make it work cause he's tired. I said okay and we both left the room.

Did I truly witness what I thought I did?

Wow I'm sorry. I was so anxious to post my story that I didn't realize the gigantic t/j. My sincere apology!

Mods can you move my post where it belongs. Thanks for your patience with me lately.

Brentwood, from my POV you are 100% fine posting here, and welcome! This is a general NPD group.

Yes, I do think you indeed witnessed what you witnessed. I believe you.

Narcissists are kings of projection. So what they know about themselves, but are unwilling to confront directly within themselves, they project on to others. Hence why you were accused of being selfish!

Your H's final reaction reminds me of how my father deals with a truth of his behavior shown to him. He literally shuts down, as if he didn't hear you.

No logic can explain NPDs. Thry cannot be reasoned with.

(((((Brentwood)))))

Brentwood,

Sweetie, you're post is fine exactly where it is. We normally have several 'conversations' going at once. Kind of like a ball bouncing thru the thread.

I think you just saw the NPD mask shifting/falling away.

You're healing, and growing. He's stuck at about 5 emotionally.

The clarity is so freeing.

Hugs, and Welcome to the Tribe.

K

Need to vent

Shortly after dday I went into WH's phone and blocked a couple people in his facebook account. He found out, got mad and locked his phone. He has ALWAYS had an issue with privacy and thinks that his phone is HIS and I shouldn't be in it at all. I didntn want to bring up his locked phone because I didn't want to cause a fight. This morning after he got into the shower, his alarm on his phone started going off. I shut it off and realized this would be a good excuse to bring up his locked phone. So I waited until I got to work and texted him saying "I went to shut off your alarm this morning and noticed that your phone was locked. What a punch in the gut and a slap in the face". His response was "you're just mad because you cant go through my texts or choose who my facebook friends are. Poor you". To him it is a power thing. He might not necessarily have anything to hide, but it is a control issue. I wanted to fire back with a bitch comment like "I just found out less than two months ago that you fucked someone and then continued talking to her for the next 3 years....and YOU think it's ok to lock your phone?" I didn't say anything because he wouldn't get it.

Thanks everyone for being so welcoming. What warm comments you all made. I swear I don't know what I'd do right now if I weren't being supported here.

It's truly amazing to me how a narcissist functions. I swear when I leave my house each day my IQ goes up 20 points. Once, years ago, we were moving cross country and were each driving a car. We were making a 10 day vacation out of it to see all the sights each state has to offer. My H had gotten my car serviced prior to the trip. I told him before we left that the car didn't seem to be running right. He told me there couldn't be anything wrong with it cause HE took care of getting it ready for the trip. Three days into it, I kept telling him the car wasn't running right. He actually told me "you must be driving it wrong." Okay, I'd been driving decades at that point, but okay, I guess I WAS driving it wrong. Until I switched cars with him. THEN there was something wrong it. So instead of spending the day at Mt. Rushmore, we spent it at the car repair. We got to see the Mt. for 30 minutes before it got dark.

This is just one of thousands of examples. As I think of them now, each is more absurd than the next. I USED to be smart. I moved my kids and home 9 times over 20 years. My kids are the most incredible people I know. Well adjusted, well educated, talented, smart, kind, happily married, have dozens of friends. Not bad for two kids brought up by such a STUPID woman!

I've been chipped away at for 34 years. Before that I was raised by a bully of a mother who is exactly like my H. I guess that's why I married him. Time to work harder in therapy so my next "Prince Charming" doesn't fool me.

Brentwood, I just started reading a book called When Your Perfect Partner Goes Perfectly Wrong. I am enjoying it so far and has brought me some great insight.

Did you say that you are filing or just separating?

Brentwood,

I joke that I married my mom and dated my dad. XH is NPD,so is mom. XSO is either another (lesser) flavor of NPD or very KISA, my dad and he share traits.

I say it in jest, but its true.

It is amazing how quickly we recognize that we married our "parents" once we start getting healthy.

Which makes sense because that was our "normal" and what made us feel "safe".

I have court this Wednesday, I am afraid because I literally have everything to go for full custody and I know DEEP down inside that would be best for our kids BUT I am afraid of the long term damage to our kids.

I am not so afraid of the "Wrath" because well he keeps reacting and I have gotten used to it so I expect it but I still don't want to embark on this trip.

He had been refusing to provide his new address(he moved in with his "fiancee" of 4mos in July and kept demanding visitation. Yesterday he finally provided his address 3 minutes before visition pickup time, showed up and started calling my house and demanding I send kids out.

I See it was all a ploy so he could prove to the court I was withholding visitation and he could be the good guy.

I will be asking for a continuance in court so I can subpeona the fiancee, she will not get to sit in the shadows while trying to destroy my children. She is merely a tool in his dysfunction and they deserve each other but I have to take the mentality to leave no "stragglers" behind.

I need all the prayers and good chakra vibes so i can keep my focus. I also need a good paralegal to help me package things for court.

Anyone willing to help walk me through this?

I can't offer anything other than my hugs and support. The fact that you're even able to do what you're doing is astounding to me. I'd be in a fetal position. You rock!

This is rich- had to go to court to file the subpeona for the gf/fiancée and EXNPD filed for contempt on the 17th. Last weekend that I denied him visitation. He hasn't served me- yet he saw me twice since then.

Always trying to "surprise us" sad clown, I already knew he was going to try that trick. Yes, I will let him tie the noose himself when he explains why he didn't provide his new address.

Definitely lacking frontal cerebral activity.

Poor fiancée if she really is in dark over the court crap, since her fiancée loves surprises, I am going to surprise her with the subpeona. :) SUPRISE- u been served.

How awful sad that ur 5month engagement will cause the court to prove what a neglectful "parent" she is to her own son. Their schmoopie love will be worth it- or at least her getting her green card..

Kajaem~ sent you a PM.

I swear when I leave my house each day my IQ goes up 20 points.

Welcome (((Brentwood))) & (((PIP)))

I remember seeing that crazy-behavior, the nonsensical acting out, with its word salad accompaniment, and my mind seemed to *hum* to itself, within - to separate me from the appearance, to keep me safe from falling for what was clearly an act.

Good actors, because they believe their put-upon cloak, their fiction, their persona, their disguise.

The *hum* was my finally seeing through it...and I realized I was witnessing an arrested 13-year-old.

Whatever *age* you're witnessing (that they "arrested") - it helps you understand, and feel more certain and secure...after all, can you and I not deal fairly effectively with children? Sure, tantruming children, sometimes scary as hell, and even dangerous...

...it's good to know you had nothing to do with that disorder, that toxic, evil, broken crap existed before you, and you've just been *managing it* all these years.

It's good to see that, and put it down, let go, and leave the sad child trapped in an adult's body.

NC!

(((dreamy)))!

Thanks jj for your insights. For me it's as if the floodgates of wisdom regarding his behavior have opened up.

It's so much easier to see him as a wounded, arrested, whatever, as opposed to the unremorseful selfish WH that he is. He insists at the top of his lungs that there's nothing 'deep or complicated' about the reasons for his A other than he was angry at me for all the years that I was mean to him. I finally am seeing him differently, more compassionately than I have since this whole thing happened because I have been witnessing his dysfunction and reacting to it in a totally calmer way which is very disarming to him. I see the struggle for him to control his tantrum knowing he has no good excuse to throw one. It's very educational to watch.

I just have to be careful not to confuse my compassion with my co-d, that's why I need to hear from my support system here at SI.