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Despite books and articles we've read, podcasts and videos listened to and watched, my WH keeps insisting that since he "stopped everything" that should be enough for me to forgive him and move on and everything between us should be fine now. He seems to not know what else to do despite all we've learned about repair, amends, reconciliation. And that "just stopping" isn't enough. He seems convinced just stopping is enough and doesn't know what else I want and seems to think all our problems and lack of ability to just get back to normal and have a happy relationship again are all my fault. Despite all we've learned he seems to not really believe betrayal trauma is real as he thinks all my feelings and behaviors, triggers, etc are all me just...I don't know...being mean and difficult and annoying on purpose or something? Like when I'm hurt and upset and confused I'm actually just being shitty on purpose to hurt him, not actually hurt and upset and experiencing a trauma response. I started therapy with a trauma informed therapist weeks ago, I keep asking him to go see someone too. So far he hasn't. He hasn't been doing much learning on his own about my side of things or actually fixing the relationship, most has been facilitated by me. He refuses to go back over any of the resources I've given or look on his own or talk to anyone. I keep saying yes he's stopped but there's so much more we need to do. Says he explained why things happened (blames all on childhood trauma, or says all was my fault for not being his perfect fantasy partner all the time, no accountability for any of his choices and actions, no care really for how all this hurt and affected me and our lives, seems to think a lot of things were entirely justified, and some things refused to change or even see why I'm upset about them, like some public evidence of things he's done). I'm at a complete loss. Fighting nearly nonstop for years. Crying almost everyday. Things between us just keep getting worse. He keeps treating me worse and caring about me less. And keeps telling me it's been years, he stopped "everything", so why am I still upset? Why haven't I got over it? Why don't I want to kiss and cuddle him and go back to normal and pretend this never happened. That "just stopping" should be enough and the fact that I haven't magically gotten over it after a few years means to him that I'm doing all this on purpose to hurt him (like when I'm triggered or ask questions or don't trust him or don't want to be intimate) and all of this is my fault. He wants me to just tell him what I want and what to do. I said we read and watched so many things that explained this, what I'm going through and what will help the relationship. All the betrayal trauma stuff describes my behavior exactly but he seems to refuse to believe I'm not just "being difficult on purpose to hurt him" and that I'm actually the problem and he basically did nothing wrong besides the behaviors he stopped and since he stopped I guess that means I'm no longer allowed to feel bad about them? He said no he stopped, if that wasn't good enough what's step 2? I told him to go back over things we've read and watched, resources I've shared, look on his own, talk to someone. He kept saying no I have to tell him what is step 2 and he'll do step 2. I told him part of the problem is I can't just tell you what to do and how to behave and then you do it, you have to actually grow and learn and change and take initiative and show me you actually care and understand. And I've already shared tons of resources with you. He just kept asking what I want, what's step 2? I don't know what else to say or what to do. Can anyone help? Relate? Advice? Anything?

It seems to me you're telling him what step 2 is, and he's choosing to not do it.

😔😭

I'm sorry for my short, abrupt post, but in a nutshell that's how it reads to me. You're telling him what you'd like to see, the he turns around and says "what do you want from me?" right?

You're asking that he take accountability and take the lead on what we generally call "doing the work." It's not a specific checklist of do action A, then action B, etc. It's a whole set of new behaviors demonstrating that he understands the trauma he inflicted on you and that he's working to be a safe partner who would never do it again.

I have a hard time believing he dove into all of the reading and videos on this subject and doesn't understand that betrayal trauma is real trauma. The general rule of thumb here is that it takes 2 to 5 years to recover from infidelity, and that's when both partners do the work and really want it to happen. I've seen that time table repeated by many licensed counselors as well. I've seen it described as worse than the death of a loved one, topped only by the loss of a child. PTSD symptoms are common. It's real trauma.

When was your d day? How long ago was it, and did you get the whole truth, or did he trickle truth you over time? Every new revelation is a new d day and resets the clock on your healing.

For him to minimize and play down what your going through is a red flag. Most of the literature and videos I've seen have all said that's a huge no-no. He shouldn't be doing that.

You've told him to go back over resources you've given or talk to anyone on his own, he refuses, the has the nerve to ask what you want him to do as if you haven't given him anything? If you had a friend telling you this same story, what would you think? What would you say to your friend?

Look, it's not necessarily all gloom and doom. Assuming he's being honest and has stopped all cheating that's a good start, but you need more than that, and he needs to take it seriously. A truly remorseful spouse is willing to do whatever it takes to fix what they broke. Does that describe your husband?

I'm so sorry you've found yourself here, but this is a good group of folks who understand what you're going through. Check out some of the articles in the healing library. You can find it in one of the drop downs at the top. Check out the 180. It sounds like you might want to consider employing that if he's not willing to work with you. This deflecting and blaming you for not getting over it is a pretty big issue.

Stick around and keep posting. Ask any questions or even just vent if you need to. This is the place for it. Again, I'm so sorry you've found a need for a place like this, but most of us know and understand exactly what you're going through. Hang in there. More people will be along to add to your thread.

Sometimes R is for rugsweeping.

If your M or relationship is bad, the only one keeping you in it is you. If you aren't willing to lose it, you'll never repair.

Hi iink,

Sorry you are here with us , but glad you are reaching out for help.

I don't have much advice to give you other to say that you aren't alone. My wife is doing something very similar though not as extreme.

He seems to not know what else to do despite all we've learned about repair, amends, reconciliation.

He wants me to just tell him what I want and what to do.

Just last week (we are two years out from D-day) she complained that I keep not telling her what to do even though I have literally written her at least ten letters talking about what I need, asked her to read several books, shared dozens of videos, and articles. It seems like rather than being dumb and not understanding what is requested, she disagrees with what I'm asking for, or is unwilling to go that route. Sounds like your husband is walking a similar path.

Often I find it hard to articulate what exactly I need, and hesitate to prescribe anything for fear that it's just going to become a checklist item for her. Something she can check off and say "see I did what you want!".

In reality I want to see an attitude change, not a specific list of items. I want to see her showing humility, and really looking deep within herself at what wen't wrong, and addressing those causes. Those are the kinds of things that will show me she has made genuine change, and help my nervous system calm down. I'm betting thats what you really want as well.

I would say the following items should be included in step #2 at a minimum:

- Individual therapy with a specialized therapist to look into why he made those choices.
- Consistent actions to help you feel safe and supported
- Understanding betrayal trauma - I read a book the other day called On the Other Side of Pain by Beth Fischer that explained this pretty well.

One thing I've learned here is that it's not possible to force someone to work on themselves, and trying only hurts you. They have to want to do it. You can communicate what you need, but ultimately it's up to them. If they choose not to, you will have to decide how long to wait to see if they change their mind.

blames all on childhood trauma, or says all was my fault for not being his perfect fantasy partner all the time, no accountability for any of his choices and actions, no care really for how all this hurt and affected me and our lives, seems to think a lot of things were entirely justified, and some things refused to change or even see why I'm upset about them, like some public evidence of things he's done

This is SOO common that if it were a different subject it might be funny. Don't accept any blame whatsoever for his poor choices, and don't allow him to continue blaming you.. Nothing you did or did not do caused him to betray you. This is 100% on him, and has nothing to do with you or your relationship. It has everything to do with his poor character and bad coping mechanisms.

Infidelity is sexual and emotional abuse.

The scars it leaves on your nervous system share a lot of similarities with sexual violence like rape.

Accountability wise you won’t get any justice for the trauma you suffered, he knows that and doesn’t care.

Imagine a different scenario of abuse: a rapist telling his victim "I stopped. So we are good now. Get over it"

What your reaction would be to that situation?

Now you suffered a different kind of sexual and emotional abuse, but the trauma you carry wounded the same pathways . As any abuse victim what you want is to heal from your trauma and remove yourself from the grip of your abuser.

Since differently from the violent type of sexual abuse you can’t have your abuser removed from your vicinity, you only have 2 options: leave or protect yourself with iron boundaries.

That is called the hard 180. Read about it.

Like many abuse victims your nervous system tries to make sense and find empathy and help in your abuser. It doesn’t make sense but it happens often if you can’t physically escape their presence (which is always the best option at least initially).

Psyche is often counterintuitive, you can read of what trauma does, how victims react to it. Long term effects usually include very different outcomes: either you heal, become an abuser yourself and replicate what was done to you, or you stay stuck in limbo for life.

Here we help people to find their way to heal. Because only you can heal yourself, other can help you navigate your path and above all listen to your voice.

Because you have been violated in your most intimate core and identity. You want to scream and cry but you feel alone, exploited and abandoned.

Abused.

You have been heard.
This is a thing that will help you to find your strength again, you’ll see in time.

Now about the asshole (your cheating asshole partner hereinafter identified as "asshole"):

He doesn’t give a fuck. He doesn’t feel remorse or guilt. He caused the instability and now he feels uncomfortable that he’s been found guilty.
So you and your pain are a mirror showing his ego what a pile of shit of a person he is. And his ego can’t handle that.

Rather than realizing that he is the villain he wants that reflection to go away, so he can keep pretending to be a decent human being, not a disgustingly stupid manlet.
This is called shame, it’s not guilt, is not empathy. Is selfish self commiseration.

He violated you for a dopamine ego boost and now he feels bad about himself.

He doesn’t care about you, he is still in the deep of the affair fog. Lives a fantasy and performs the role of a man who he is not.

He know the shit he pulled off, but he is too weak to own it and this means he cannot even feel sorry.

In your mind you are still dehumanized. Not a person, just a role in his fantasy story, so get in line girl, don’t bother the hero with your blabbering. I need you as a utility, got no time for your emotional nonsense.

Fuck. This.

This is your husband now.

He is not lovable, he is not a partner, as we properly called him, he is the asshole.
The only thing that assholes understand is consequence.

Hard 180. You put yourself first, start acting like he is out of the picture. Treat him like that. Like he deserves.

This they always understand.
Wether he will come around and wake the hell up from his dopamine drugged dream, pulling his head out of his asshole, is another story.

People can change, if they have the balls to do it.

Right now he is not changed at all.
We know the script, happens every time.
I tell you more: he didn’t stop. He paused at best, flying low until he has managed and gaslighted you enough so he can resume and double down on infidelity.

He is not changed, not yet.
The asshole is still the Asshole.

You are not being apologized, you are being managed.

Hard 180 and boundaries hard as steel.
We are here for you, keep posting.

You have been heard girl.