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Can you make yourself value something you don’t?

I don’t value honesty in and of itself. I just don’t. It’s hardly ever served me better than convenient lies have. It’s been really helpful in covering my butt and getting me what I want.

And if I’m being totally honest, sometimes lying is fun. Sometimes it’s fun to pretend that the truth is something it’s not, and to play that out in real life. To be someone you’re not, even if only for a little while. Sometimes it’s like a game to see if you can win someone over, or gain social status. Sometimes it’s like a little riddle: "How do I get out of this, with maximal benefit to me?" Like, I listen to true crime podcasts often, and I try to figure out— and I can’t stress this enough: HYPOTHETICALLY— how I would go about escaping the law if I were to murder someone, daydreaming about every little contingency, savoring the puzzle…Not that I would ever kill anybody, of course!

But it’s not good to be a dishonest person, especially if you’re trying to R&R from infidelity and remain married. Especially if your dishonesty hurts other people. So here I am, trying to become a more honest person, if only in behavior, not because I inherently value honesty. And I think that would be fine… except for the fact that’s not what BH wants. He wants me to become more honest because I value it, and it’s the right thing to be and all that, not just because I fear the end of our marriage and I want him to trust me again. Not just because I want him to feel safe and to heal…

But I don’t. That’s not me. I value him, and I value our marriage, and I value our (mostly) intact family and the stability it offers our daughter, and a bunch of other tangible things that require me to be honest. But I don’t value honesty. The closest I can imagine myself getting is getting a little *ding!* of serotonin from doing the honest thing, even if my first instinct is to be dishonest, and then patting myself on the back and thinking how proud BH would (should?) be of me, and calculating how many imaginary trust points that earns me… Isn’t that totally fucked up? I don't see me feeling proud of myself for choosing honesty; I think I'm more prone to feeling stupid for electing to disadvantage myself, except for the fact that it's done in the name of love.

Is there a way to make me value it? Can you make yourself value things that you don’t?

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I don’t know if I can ever be this ideal spouse that BH wants, who has the same values as him and never feels temptation. I don’t know if I’ll ever be enough… but I’ll fucking die trying to be, if I have to.

[This message edited by DayByDay96 at 11:25 PM, Monday, October 13th]

Let me ask you this, do you value when others give you honesty? Or do you just expect them to lie and play games with you?

To me, true intimacy requires vulnerability as well as authenticity. It’s showing up who you are, where you are, allowing yourself to be fully be seen. True connection is often what we seek but with an internal road map that does not often include these things.

I think most people have been dishonest in their lives about something, but the ideas you express about playing with them are a bit concerning and may need explored further in IC.

Personally, I have shared that as I shed some of the ways I learned to cope we’re unhealthy. And as I discovered why I do things it helped me to be more intentional in shifting some of my values and ways moving through things. I had issues with honesty as a young person, and had cleared that up before getting married. I liked myself way better. When I had an affair, the shame of returning to those behaviors was something I had to wade through. I do not believe I ever saw it as fun, I saw it as I needed to hide who I am.

Again, not sure if you relate or that’s helpful but a shift in values is not something you can force. It’s something you have to see the value in and then change the behavior noticing how much better one feels.

Let me ask you this, do you value when others give you honesty? Or do you just expect them to lie and play games with you?

I was thinking about that yesterday, and decided that I only value honesty from others if a) I’m aware of whether they chose honesty vs dishonesty, and b) it disadvantages me… Like, hypothetically if I was getting ready to go out, and I asked my H if what I was wearing was okay, and he really thought it was kind of meh or even hideous, but what he says to me is that I look gorgeous and he sweeps me up in an embrace, and then we go out and have the night of our lives… is that not better than feeling like shit about my ability to dress fashionably and changing outfits 20 times and making us late and still be self-conscious while we’re out and about? I think so, as long as I don’t find out that he thought the outfit was ugly afterwards. It really depends.

What if I don’t like myself any better, or feel like life if better, when I start behaving more honestly? What if it’s always about being the kind of person BH wants me to be?

Is it okay to do the right thing for selfish reasons? As a means to an end, not as any genuine value shift?

My experience with change is that it happens when the pain of not changing is greater than the pain it takes to make the change.

I generally think anyone in an intimate relationship who values true connection can see the benefit of honesty in their lives. Being authentically you and speaking your truths and still being loved and understood feels good.

I can’t imagine having a great life while no one around you can believe a word you say is sustainable, healthy, or of any advantage.

I also do not see how being in a relationship where you don’t desire that person to see you or understand you is satisfying. Intimacy doesn’t have room for lies.

So maybe it’s more about finding what you do desire. Would you say you would like to have a deep connection with someone?

You value your husband’s companionship, but if there is a deeper connection there is more there to protect than a partnership, it’s something you are more emotionally invested in. Lack of honesty, lack of the need for monogamy, there is nothing wrong with not valuing these things, everyone has a different system of values and beliefs. But it’s important for you to decide if you truly don’t value those things or if you are disassociating because of things in your past that has taught you to keep people at a distance. For me, it was that. I met a new version of myself as I uncovered my motivations.

Personally as someone who can wear the bs hat, I will say that no if my husband said he will just change what I want like a chameleon in our relationship but doesn’t feel those values for himself, I would not consider him a safe person to reconcile with. Generally speaking, behaviors are guided by our values and thoughts. Committing to a behavior you don’t believe in is not something that will last.

I will point out, that if you are willing to be honest with him about you lacking this in your value system I would say you have no real issue with being honest. That is a tough thing to admit to someone who has no reason to trust you at this point. So I find your position to be a bit confusing. Most ws would probably not admit to feeling that way or know that so early out of the gate. So I feel a little bit maybe the issue isn’t that at all, it’s something deeper that could be uncovered in IC.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:37 PM, Wednesday, October 15th]

Hi DayByDay96, Belated welcome to SI.

hikingout said:

you are disassociating because of things in your past that has taught you to keep people at a distance. For me, it was that. I met a new version of myself as I uncovered my motivations.,

This was my experience also. I assumed that how I thought about relationships and my own values within them was fixed, it was just "how I'm wired." I could not conceive of thinking or feeling differently. I had very little self respect and remember uttering the phrase "I just really don't mind if other people use me for sexual gratification" to my therapist pretty early in the process. And I remember with crystal clarity the day I was sitting in my car waiting for the left turn arrow to come on and realizing, "Wait...I think I actually do mind..." as tears spilled over. I don't know how much time passed between those two events but I think it was at least a few years.

The point is, you are likely holding on to ways of thinking that have helped you throughout your life to stay defended against shame, blame and criticism. It takes time to identify them and start to unwind them. "I don't value honesty" might very well be one of them. Were I you I would start trying to untangle that knot. You listed a bunch of ways that you have seen the value of dishonesty. What are some practical examples of the downside? Also, what is your relationship to integrity? Do you value it?

Proceed with conviction and valor.

Welcome again from this EvolvingSoul.