SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I need some explanation, and I think some very clear and very direct answers no matter how painful.

Earlier today my BS told me that the AP had had strong feelings for me, and would even have left her partner for me.

This set off a very catastrophic chain of thoughts in my head and now I cannot stop thinking about her, especially about how I might have a chance to go back to her if my wife ends up divorcing me.

I desperately want to get these thoughts out of my head, but every time I try another one appears and I get good feelings and thoughts and all in all going back to the AP feels like a need.

I realize that it would be stupid and shallow and shortsighted and cruel, and undue months of very intense work and growth. But it is stuck in my head and will not leave.

My question is, is this affair fog? And if so what do I do about it? I am seeing my IC tomorrow but I need some very hard truths from you guys right now.

Yeah. It's the fog. The affair is a drug. It isn't the person you are craving. It's the feelings you had when you interacted with them. For me those feelings came from using AP as a mirror and interacting with him kept the good feelings flowing and kept my sense of self-worth bolstered. But at a price. I had to lie to my BS, I had to hide who I really was and what I was doing. I had to deep six my integrity. I had to do all kinds of mental gymnastics in order to square "I'm a good person" and "I'm a liar/cheater". I was inauthentic. No one saw the real me. Even me.

Like you I had a hard time giving up the notion that AP and I could somehow have a future if things didn't work out with BS. I sat on the fence for about 5 months after D-day, technically NC but refusing to send a letter to say this is permanently over. It took one of those messengers from the Universe for me to realize that the choice was not BS or AP. It was mental health or not mental health.

My D-day was in early June 2015, and it was late June before I told AP that I needed to be NC with him for at least 6 months while BS and I tried to figure out if we could work things out. My plan was if BS and I decided to give reconciliation a try I would send the NC letter. I desperately did not want to blow up the AP bridge, rather I wanted him waiting around in case things didn't work out with BS. Months went by and I didn't write the letter. I had given myself until the end of the year and the deadline was getting closer and closer. My indecision caused BS so much additional pain and it was causing me huge anxiety as well. And then one day I got clarity.

It was the day before Thanksgiving and I had been into town to pick up a few things for the feast and decided on the spur of the moment to stop off at one of my old thinking spots. It was a cliff overlooking the ocean in the neighborhood where I was living when I first met BS. I got out of my car and was enjoying warm sun and cool breeze off the ocean and started talking to an older man who was also there enjoying the view and the weather. I made the comment about what a nice day it was and said "This is why we live here" and he said that he no longer did, he had lived in that neighborhood a while ago but after his divorce moved to a town inland. He was there visiting his daughter. I said I was sorry about his divorce and he said that he wasn't, that his wife had wanted to have a boyfriend at the same time she was married to him and he just wasn't okay with that. "Hmmm" I thought, "sounds like me". So I started paying attention a little more closely. I was still thinking that I might run off with AP after all and I was looking for a way that I could leave BS and not be the bad guy, leaving him in a permanently broken state. I was looking to escape guilt.

I asked the man how he got past it, and how long it took him to be okay. He told me that he had turned to God and God helped him get through it. He said it took a few years but that he was completely over it now, that he had lady friends that he dated and that he liked his life now. As we were talking I was feeling more and more optimistic about AP and I living happily ever after. And then I asked him, "what about your wife, is she still with the boyfriend?" And that's when the Universe put the hammer down. "Oh, no" he said, "she's 3 or 4 relationships down the road from that...I don't think she's ever going to be happy."

And just like that, I decided.

AP was not and was never going to be the road to happiness for me. I really wish I could say at that point I was concerned about BS's well-being but I wasn't. I only knew that I did not want to be that guy's wife in 10 years. I knew that the only shot I had at being happy and mentally healthy was working things out with BS or going it alone. I knew that AP was not and would never be the mental health choice. I went home and wrote the letter right then. It was 3 months before I could write one that was satisfactory to both BS and me, so I didn't send it until March but it was that day in November that I let AP go for good.

I have been in the grip of the fog. I understand exactly how you feel. And I can tell you that what you feel for AP will change. In the early days like you, I pined. I think of him now and I cringe over what I almost did, over what I almost gave up.

I'm going to bump a post for you called "Maia's Withdrawal Survival Guide". She went through withdrawal about as bad as anyone can and she came out alright on the other side and you can too.

Proceed with conviction and valor.

Best to you from a fellow EvolvingSoul.

[This message edited by EvolvingSoul at 1:56 AM, February 12th (Monday)]

I don’t know I think it wouldn’t matter WHO it was long as you didn’t have to be alone.

Hi Stonelotus,

First, I commend you for your honesty. The fight with logic waywards sometimes experience early on is a struggle. You want to force certain feelings to come and certain ones to stop, it's really hard. And, hard to admit outloud to folks. Here are some thoughts:

First, I think this triggered you because early on we take a beating, we feel guilty, we watch our significant other go through so many emotions, and sometimes they seem like they hate us. This is normal of course, but when we already did this because our self esteem is in the gutter and we don't really have healthy built-in self worth these little "ego kibbles" you get are a hit for the addiction.

Second, I think Root hit it on the head, you are scared and don't want to end up alone.

I also think that our obsessions pre-dday lie in our affair partners. We have traded any healthy hobbies or obsessions. So, to find something to do with the time is key. If you don't replace it with healthier hobbies or interests, you still have the time on your hands that you used to and our natural tendency is to fall back into the though patterns.

Last, I think it's important that you find enough courage to find a new dream to dream. One that includes your spouse.

It boils down to fear...you fear you miss your other chances at happiness, you fear your spouse will never forgive you, you fear you will never be happy in the relationship, you fear feeling like crap the way you do now...forever. You fear failing. I think we all fear the failing more than anything else.

I think you are at a cusp of being able to work through those things because you at least are trying to fight your way from feeling this way.

Set intentions.

Intentionally commit.

Intentionally show love, empathy, and kindness to your wife.

Intentionally seek out hobbies or other things that fill your soul.

Intentionally work to love yourself.

Intentionally commit to being mentally healthy.

It's not going to happen overnight. I will also remind you that you said you had no real feelings towards the AP. I believe that was true. What you seek is someone to have those feelings towards you because you want to be filled up. How can YOU fill your empty vessel?

Believe me, this last question is the one that I work on every day now. People should enhance your life, not make it.

I am still cheering you on. Keep going.

Thank you everyone who posted here, it really helped me get through today.

Evolvingsoul,

It was the day before Thanksgiving and I had been into town to pick up a few things for the feast and decided on the spur of the moment to stop off at one of my old thinking spots. It was a cliff overlooking the ocean in the neighborhood where I was living when I first met BS. I got out of my car and was enjoying warm sun and cool breeze off the ocean and started talking to an older man who was also there enjoying the view and the weather. I made the comment about what a nice day it was and said "This is why we live here" and he said that he no longer did, he had lived in that neighborhood a while ago but after his divorce moved to a town inland. He was there visiting his daughter. I said I was sorry about his divorce and he said that he wasn't, that his wife had wanted to have a boyfriend at the same time she was married to him and he just wasn't okay with that. "Hmmm" I thought, "sounds like me". So I started paying attention a little more closely. I was still thinking that I might run off with AP after all and I was looking for a way that I could leave BS and not be the bad guy, leaving him in a permanently broken state. I was looking to escape guilt.

I asked the man how he got past it, and how long it took him to be okay. He told me that he had turned to God and God helped him get through it. He said it took a few years but that he was completely over it now, that he had lady friends that he dated and that he liked his life now. As we were talking I was feeling more and more optimistic about AP and I living happily ever after. And then I asked him, "what about your wife, is she still with the boyfriend?" And that's when the Universe put the hammer down. "Oh, no" he said, "she's 3 or 4 relationships down the road from that...I don't think she's ever going to be happy."

And just like that, I decided.

AP was not and was never going to be the road to happiness for me. I really wish I could say at that point I was concerned about BS's well-being but I wasn't. I only knew that I did not want to be that guy's wife in 10 years. I knew that the only shot I had at being happy and mentally healthy was working things out with BS or going it alone. I knew that AP was not and would never be the mental health choice. I went home and wrote the letter right then. It was 3 months before I could write one that was satisfactory to both BS and me, so I didn't send it until March but it was that day in November that I let AP go for good.

I really liked this story, a moment of clarity can really do a whole lot to set one on to the right path to healing. I wish hearing other peoples moments of clarity would trigger them in ourselves, I had to look harder to find mine.

Root,

I don’t know I think it wouldn’t matter WHO it was long as you didn’t have to be alone.

Is exactly right, right now I'm cut off physically and emotionally from my wife. I'm not safe right now so we need that distance but it caused, and still is causing me to go down a spiral of wanting that sort of attachment I'm missing, the sort of intimacy I'm craving. I've just been handling that sudden drop very badly.

Hikingout,

Set intentions.

Intentionally commit.

Intentionally show love, empathy, and kindness to your wife.

Intentionally seek out hobbies or other things that fill your soul.

Intentionally work to love yourself.

Intentionally commit to being mentally healthy.

This is, near word for word what my IC said to me. And by word for word I mean we dug down a lot deeper into it using a lot of the psychological terms. Ego state, vulnerable child, maladaptive schemas. The works. Between what I've been reading, what you and the others have been saying, my IC finally helped me tie it all together right now.

I am still trying to handle things like a child. I want things to be easy, and I want them to be handed to me. I do not want the AP, I want the love and affection the AP gives me because my inner vulnerable child doesn't want to be alone, and my adolescent child is saying that everything will be okay if I just go back to her. She'll take me. It's that easy.

It's not, and the adult part of me, or rather the part of me I want to be adult needs to become more assertive, to make make sure I can see past that little cotton candy bridge that would be going back to the AP.

Right now, I need resources that will help me deal with my delusions and combating this euphoric recall, but I think I finally have the clarity to really start the work on combating this.

Or at the very least I have a handhold to start trying to yank myself up out of this.

Now is the time for effort right? An adult doesn't stop at the moment of clarity and declare it done, and adult doubles down on the work and uses that moment of clarity to build something way stronger. Time to be an adult.

Hi again StoneLotus,

I really liked this story, a moment of clarity can really do a whole lot to set one on to the right path to healing. I wish hearing other peoples moments of clarity would trigger them in ourselves, I had to look harder to find mine.

Well you just never know. I guess I'm a "sign from the Universe" kind of person and it's possible that when the moment comes the Universe will have a sign for you. They can come from some pretty unlikely places. The key is to be paying attention, I think, and open to it when it comes.

It sounds like you're doing some pretty good work in IC. I think some people have their emotional development arrest at some point. Mine did so at about age 18-19. When I look at my choices and thought processes until several months after D-day, in the context of a late-maturing teenage girl they make sense. I remember BS saying disparagingly (I thought) "You've been acting like a teenager!" It took quite a lot of work before I was able to absolutely agree that he was right.

One thing that seemed to help me bear coming to terms with my terrible choices of the past was the knowledge that my behavior was changing, even if my thinking was still wobbly. Don't give that up. You've established NC. Stay the course. It will get easier, I promise. There is a certain amount of withdrawal that you just have to get through. When your brain starts trying to run those neural patterns for the feelings you had during the affair you're going to experience craving. Don't cave. It gets better. You can acknowledge that the craving exists, spend some time with examining it as a feeling without attaching story or meaning to it. And refrain from acting on it. It will pass in a short time and the act of refraining will bolster your integrity and change your brain wiring a little. It's an incremental process, one neuron at a time, brother. It's slow but it happens.

Strength and healing to you from a fellow EvolvingSoul.

SL,

I really appreciate your honesty in posting here- not always easy to do. You have already received a lot of good advice and support. Gently, you need to start taking care of your own needs. It sounds like most of us former Waywards, you have let your happiness and emotional well being hinge on what you get from others.

You are at a difficult place, it was the most difficult time of my life. Like you I had very little support, mostly due to us keeping it private. I survived from IC to IC appt for about a year. There were days I would survive moment to moment telling myself I was ok in that moment and I could go forward.

Keep to a schedule-parent, work, cook, clean, exercise, get outside, read or listen to audiobooks about affairs, relationships, shame, self help-they will all have some lilltle bit of the truth that you will need to heal.

Finally, what you do now is CRITICALLY important if you want to maybe even be given the option to R with your BS.

Stay NC-you already know it is not about the AP. The AP will not save you. You have to save yourself now and hopefully be given the opportunity to help BS heal, if that is her desire. You will assasinate your own character even more if you contact the AP now. Lots of us have stayed NC-you can too- one moment at a time.

NO TT. It causes enormous pain to BS. My TT lasted about a week but my BH was so crushed by it, I was able to see that and knew I had to unload it all then.

Take care of your own needs. Do not expect BS to help you. BS are shell shocked from the nuclear bomb of discovery. And while learning to do this, support BS in what she needs.

Tell the truth. Don’t lie. Kindly tell the truth.

Make your actions follow your words. You can say I love you, I’m sorry a thousand to most BS and if your actions don’t agree with what you have been saying, you are likely killing your opportunity to R. You have just lived a huge lie, betrayed your BS and your own commitments to the relationship. Anything that even has the hint of a lie or betrayal will wound your BS again.

Listen to BS. it is no longer about you as you will be taking care of your own needs in healthy ways but your BS will need you to listen to maybe regain some trust.

Slow down. Be thoughtful in your words and actions. That helped me a lot. My family would even get impatient with me at times, but that is what I had to do to be honest and “police” my own words and actions.

You can do this. Sending strength.

This set off a very catastrophic chain of thoughts in my head and now I cannot stop thinking about her, especially about how I might have a chance to go back to her if my wife ends up divorcing me.

Really man? You would end up with a woman like that? The type of woman that hurt your wife and marriage so much that your wife would divorce you over? You are that needy for attention and to have someone in your life? I don't think this is an affair fog. I just think you want to be desired and wanted. Regretful and no where near remorseful. I know this is harsh, but maybe that will help you see this AP for who she is. The woman is not someone you should be in a relationship with ever. Period. Not to mention you shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone at this point till you are good on your own.

It sounds like you're doing some pretty good work in IC. I think some people have their emotional development arrest at some point. Mine did so at about age 18-19. When I look at my choices and thought processes until several months after D-day, in the context of a late-maturing teenage girl they make sense. I remember BS saying disparagingly (I thought) "You've been acting like a teenager!" It took quite a lot of work before I was able to absolutely agree that he was right.

EvolvingSoul, this is absolutely correct, this is what every resource and the IC has been telling me. I have basically never grown up. 26 years old and I'm still thinking like a dumb 16-something. All hormones and "got mine"s. It's bad.

SadLady, I am working on that, I'm not only being truthful but I am doing best to own up directly about my own mistakes (which are still unfortunately very frequent) I'm being honest with her even when it hurts and terrifies me. I'm still depressed to the point of pain but honesty and the road to her wanting to reconnect with me is really going a long way in helping me stay focused and on this.

Zugzwang...man I really wanted to put off posting this, but running from it never does anything more than make it worse. I'm going to face this.

Really man? You would end up with a woman like that? The type of woman that hurt your wife and marriage so much that your wife would divorce you over? You are that needy for attention and to have someone in your life? I don't think this is an affair fog. I just think you want to be desired and wanted. Regretful and no where near remorseful. I know this is harsh, but maybe that will help you see this AP for who she is. The woman is not someone you should be in a relationship with ever. Period. Not to mention you shouldn't be in a relationship with anyone at this point till you are good on your own.

You're not only correct, you are even more correct than you think you are. These thoughts I was having before I got some measure of control over them (it's not a lot yet) included fantasies of me actually trying to fix my AP partner.

Yeah, I'm going to say that again just so everyone is clear and I cannot run from the fact. Not only was I fantasizing about going back to the woman who helped me hurt my wife and my family so much, but I was also having fantasies of somehow fixing her so it would be okay.

That goes way beyond just being needy and selfish, that's full on disgusting, chauvinistic pig, every man your mom ever warned you about selfish bullshit.

Typing this out and reminding myself that I had those thoughts is how I am keeping my mind on the fact that I am broken, unsafe, and in need of serious self care and a lifetimes worth of growing up.

Those thoughts are me. I thought those. I own that. Hopefully change follows.

I get the fixing thing. We called it being a KISA. I was the same way. Had my affairs with the same type of needy women. Learned getting my self worth from my needy mother. Do things for her and I got her version of love. It was the only way my mother showed affection. The way I learned self worth. As a teen and 20something year old I had the same type of relationships that filled the same needs and dynamics. Then I got tired of that shit and married a strong independent woman that was opposite of that and my mother plus APs. Somewhere during my late 30s, mid-life crisis-I wanted and needed that KISA fix because I didn't feel like I was filling that hole (didn't realize then how unhealthy that hole was) with my wife. The things my wife needed from me required adult work. Being a good responsible partner. Helping with the housework and kiddos. My lazy immature ass wasn't willing to do that. Doing simple shit on my terms was better at the time. A few BS phrases and words. Giving advice and not having anyone question me or hold me accountable. Just spit the same shit back uncontested and didn't require me to grow or hold me accountable to BS.

I get everything you said. Been there and done that. Cake eating because we were selfish and not maturing at the rate a healthy adult does.