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It's been over a month since D-Day, and I want to work on our marriage. My W says she will not stop seeing him. She continues to see him twice a week and stays over there. She doesn't even know if she wants the marriage at this point. Today she told me she is about 5% in on wanting to work things out. A month ago she wanted out completley. Her therapist says she is in no postiion to make any decisions. Am I being so naive to even want to try? I don't know if I can bear another heartbreak if I put in all this effort and she ends up wanting a divorce. Her AP is moving out of state permanently, so should I wait till then to see what happens with us?

Someone wiser than myself will answer you shortly.

Please read up in the healing library here.

I highly suggest you implement a strategy called the 180.

My direct advise may be perceived as a little abrasive at this point and I know a gentler soul will be along to guide you soon.

You have been heard and strength to you.

My W says she will not stop seeing him. She continues to see him twice a week and stays over there. She doesn't even know if she wants the marriage at this point. Today she told me she is about 5% in on wanting to work things out. A month ago she wanted out completley.

It's been over a month since D-Day, and I want to work on our marriage.

I'm very sorry that you're here but what M are you talking about ? right now your M is a sham and your WW is dating her boyfriend right in front of you and everybody else. At this point your ONLY logical option is to file for D and get out of this nightmare, contact a D attorney and have her served without warning and EXPOSE her A with all family and close friends, if D papers and FULL exposure don't shock her back to reality, nothing will, either way you would be in your way out of infidelity, don't forget to get tested for STDs.

She doesn't even know if she wants the marriage at this point.

Umm... it sounds like she does not want to be married to you.

I know this sucks and it hurts. Stop playing nice and file for divorce. Go talk to lawyers and move on with your life.

How could you ever recover from this... she is telling you that she does not want you.

Well you need to not do the pick me dance, that's for sure. It doesn't work.

Tell her she gets her relationship with OM or her relationship with you but not both. You are not responsible for trying to get her to pick you.

Then you have to enforce that. If she keeps having a relationship with OM, YOU need to stop having a relationship with her.

It's very telling that you say you want to work on your relationship. You both need to want to work on it. She seems very ambivalent (at best). You might find when you cut off the relationship, she is magically taken out of the fog and can suddenly decide, probably decisively, what she wants.

I'm not personally in the "shock and awe" camp, but I see the point.

Friend,

Wake up to reality. Trying to save the marriage the way you are probably going at it is comparable to rearrangeing the furniture in a burning house. While the fire rages and without calling the fire department.

Strange thing is that the only way to save a marriage in an ongoing affair is by walking away from it.

The moment you tell your wife something along these lines is the moment you start saving yourself and maybe even your marriage:

“Wife. I love you and would want to reconcile our marriage. However I have realized something worse than losing this marriage, namely sharing you with another man. I do not share my wife. You are totally free to be with OM, go spend time with OM, go out in public with OM BUT NOT AS MY WIFE.

Until and unless you clearly tell me that you want this marriage and confirm that statement with actions I am simply assuming you have chosen your infidelity over our marriage. I am starting the process of terminating our marriage, both the emotional detachment and the legal process. This takes time and there are laws that ensure it will be fair.

I refuse to aid your affair, be quiet about it or finance it. We need to discuss as soon as possible division of finances and what expectations we might have to each other while the termination takes place. “

And then you go make a sandwich or cut your toe-nails. IF she makes any comment along the lines of: I had the affair because you didn’t give me attention your stock answer to ANY issue is:

“I am sorry you feel that way. If we were working on our marriage we might address that issue. But since you have decided to be in infidelity then there isn’t any need to do so” and then go examine the content of your belly-button.

The moment you do this is the moment she realizes she’s losing you.

My W says she will not stop seeing him. She continues to see him twice a week and stays over there. She doesn't even know if she wants the marriage at this point. Today she told me she is about 5% in on wanting to work things out. A month ago she wanted out completley.

Based on what I know, when WW's reach this stage, they will act in very cruel and contradictory ways towards their husbands. They will be quite cold and demeaning, often saying things like "you're boring" "I want out" "I don't know if I ever loved you" etc.

Often it happens that they leave, only to find out that their AP wasn't all he was cracked up to be (of course) and the affair relationship peters out. They also find their post marital life isn't the grand adventure they thought it would be. Many women will eventually find remorse in such situations (always interesting how they come to this conclusion after they ran over their husbands with a mack truck) -- and some will actually try to reconcile with their husbands.

I don't see this is as much of a value proposition for husbands. Marriage is a very dicey deal for men to begin with. If a wife has torn her own house down with her own hands in this way, marriage becomes an even more dubious proposition for a man.

I recommend you stop waiting around for her to pull her head out of her ass, file for D and move on.

Right now, you are unfortunately communicating weakness and only reinforcing for her the false rationalizations she has developed in her own mind about you and the marriage. You're telling her yes, she was right, you're not for her, and this marriage is not for her.

If you stop playing the game and simply move on, you'll find yourself in a much better position no matter what happens.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:18 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

Bigger, said it better than I could. Sometimes you have to risk losing your M, to have a chance to save it. Either way you are out of infidelity. Get tested for STD’s. Read in the healing library. Expose their A to his OBS. Sorry you are going through this. Good luck.

Bigger nailed it.

I'm sorry she did this to you. And, I am glad you found us because the marriage you used to have was murdered by your WS.

It's been over a month since D-Day, and I want to work on our marriage. My W says she will not stop seeing him. She continues to see him twice a week and stays over there.

This is flat-out emotional abuse.

At this point, over a month out, you are allowing her to abuse you.

Do you have children with this person?

If you do, they are being emotionally abused as well.

If you don’t have children then fantastic - meaning there are no children being put through this life-altering trauma by some parents selfish bullshit.

Look, normally I would try to see something that would give some small sense of hope for your marriage and family but I simply don’t see anything at all.

5% in wanting to work things out, really?

Read what you wrote, read it again, and then read it again.

Imagine you were reading some one else’s story.

I can tell you from experience that there is no “working things out” with someone like this.

This is sadistic selfishness.

The 5% in is just a small bone thrown at you to distract you.

What you really need to work on is getting yourself (and especially your children if you have) away from her shitty world of betrayal and cruel selfishness.

A person like this does not become generous, loving, and kind, but know that what she is doing and how she is acting has nothing to do with you or your marriage.

It’s who she is and she was this way long before you met her.

She’s just decided to drop the facade because she doesn’t feel you are supplying her with validation anymore so she doesn’t care how cruel her betrayal is to you.

Trust me, there is a far better world out there outside of the shitshow you are in now.

Right now, you are on the Jerry Springer Show with her.

Get yourself off the stage.

For some reason when the cheater knows the betrayed spouse wants to reconcile they use it against them. It’s like a mentality of “I don’t know what I (the cheater) wants but I have no problem making you my plan B and hanging around until I decide“.

If you allow yourself to be the plan B now, you will be walked on fir the rest of your marriage. Because the cheater knows you are desperate. And they expect the betrayed spouse to always be the doormat in the marriage.

Sorry to have to tell you this. Unfortunately it’s a me aspect of cheating you don’t see in every marriage but it always leads enough we refer to it as “plan B” or the “pick-me dance”.

It’s part of the fictitious “cheaters manual” we refer to here at SI. The cheater behavioral pattern is typical and predictable.

Stop this now! Brother she is eating the cake and doing nothing but using you as a door mat.

Start the hard 180. Get tested for STDs and STIs, as well as speaking to a lawyer.

Shine a light on the A, expose it to all. Does the OM have a spouse, wife or significant other?

How did you discover her A?

She is just stringing you along.

Man get out of infidelity, she has moved on.

One day at a time

Buffer

Thank you so much for all of your advice and support. I’m completely confused and every time I see her I fall into her trap. It’s so hard for me to let her go, but I will take everyone’s advice and decide the best decision. I believe everyone is right and using my power to enforce her to make a decision. I do have two beautiful girls with her ages 2 and 5. It’s so difficult to decide what the right decision will be especially for my girls. When we speak she sucks me back in thinking there will a future. I need to re-evaluate everything and decide what the best route for me will be.

[This message edited by hnguyen610 at 9:35 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

She’s just decided to drop the facade because she doesn’t feel you are supplying her with validation anymore so she doesn’t care how cruel her betrayal is to you.

Read this again.

I have been saying for a long time that most cheaters adopt masks and costumes in their late teens and early twenties. It gets harder and harder to maintain the mask. eventually the mask slips. This is who she is — not who you thought she was.

I’m so sorry hnguyen610, but your WW is stringing you along just in case. She spends overnights with her AP?? She’s already gone.

It's been over a month since D-Day, and I want to work on our marriage.

Sorry friend, there is.no marriage to work on. That requires 2 people who want to be married to each other.

A month ago she wanted out completley. Her therapist says she is in no postiion to make any decisions.

For the community and for you - yet another example a shitty therapist with a lack of moral character.

Don't rely on your wife's therapist to talk any sense into her.

As I have said so many times, a therapist will in no way morally guide or hold accountable a cheater who isn't willing to hold themselves accountable.

She continues to see him twice a week and stays over there.

Of course it is hard when your spouse is the one who has already detached - but ask yourself - why do you want this sleazebag's leftovers? He is literally leaving her to you after he is finished!

He is taking what he wants from your wife, she goes home to the household you contribute to and rubs your nose in it.

And dude, I hate to say it, but the fact you're trying to "work on your marriage" while she is openly fucking another man and shitting on your heart is incredibly unattractive and repelling to a woman.

It communicates weakness. Women don't dig that.

Tell her if she wants to go, there is the door, but please sign these divorce papers first.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 10:27 PM, August 22nd (Saturday)]

I believe everyone is right and using my power to enforce her to make a decision

Rethink this.... It is not about trying to make her make a decision. That is the wrong focus. FOCUS on what you want. Do you want to be with someone who cheats or not?

Dont try to control or manipulate her. If you are willing to share her with another man, then you have what you want.

If not, then dont tell her to make a decision. You kick her out and file for divorce.

Start collecting information and record her daily habits... when this goes to court it will help you.

using my power to enforce her to make a decision

This is not about her making a decision.

What she decides should be irrelevant to you.

This is purely your decision.

Do you and your daughters want to continue to stay in her world of infidelity and abuse, or do you want your daughters to watch you be a strong, moral figure in their lives and move on to a healthy and authentic way of living?

Mind you, your daughters are watching and they are learning from this.

Watching you being treated with contempt and abuse by your wife is teaching them that, in the future, it is acceptable to be treated like that in their relationships.

I have two sons and they were also very young when their mother decided to act like an inconceivably selfish, backstabbing asshole who treated me like utter shit.

I knew I would be divorcing her right away but yes, it is difficult to think about the pain your kids will go through.

Ultimately, they will be better off, even if they spend only half the time with you, living in an environment where there are no lies, secrets, deceit, and abuse around them.

At least while they are with you, they will know honesty, trust, loyalty, and love.

They will eventually come to know their mother’s betrayal but they will also know the safety and authenticity of the environment you can provide them.

There is nothing to leave up to your wife - this all about what is best for you and your daughters now.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 12:17 AM, August 23rd (Sunday)]

It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with an unrepentant wife who is actively cheating. It has never been done.

Until your wife stops seeing the other man, apologizes to you and your whole family, and gives you a detailed timeline of her betrayal, then your marriage is dead.

Do not give her ultimatums. Put all of her clothes, makeup, and personal items into garbage bags and put her crap in the street. She can go live with family or her boyfriend, but not the husband and family she is actively betraying.

She needs to stop lying and cheating before any discussion of her coming home can even begin.

Remember, she can do everything right from now on and you can still choose to divorce her. Personal growth on her part does not obligate you to take her back.

Personally, I would file for divorce on Monday and tell your wife she has until the divorce is final to convince YOU she is worthy of having YOU as her husband. She has already proven she is unworthy of being your wife.

It is utterly IMPOSSIBLE to reconcile with an unrepentant wife who is actively cheating. It has never been done.

Until your wife stops seeing the other man, apologizes to you and your whole family, and gives you a detailed timeline of her betrayal, then your marriage is dead.

Do not give her ultimatums. Put all of her clothes, makeup, and personal items into garbage bags and put her crap in the street. She can go live with family or her boyfriend, but not the husband and family she is actively betraying.

She needs to stop lying and cheating before any discussion of her coming home can even begin.

Remember, she can do everything right from now on and you can still choose to divorce her. Personal growth on her part does not obligate you to take her back.

Personally, I would file for divorce on Monday and tell your wife she has until the divorce is final to convince YOU she is worthy of having YOU as her husband. She has already proven she is unworthy of being your wife.