rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 07:22 AM

[This message edited by rewritemyending at 9:59 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]

hikingout posted 1/28/2020 08:59 AM

That is good news! I will warn you that I went back and forth on things once I would see something. The withdrawal is powerful and we want to go back into denial. Healing is never a straight line, be patient with yourself and never feel like when you get in the other space that you need to surrender to it. Once I started to see the flickers more and more showed up. Be patient with yourself. Congrats on IC - it's very hard work, but the results will show up if you are consistent and work at it.

JBWD posted 1/28/2020 09:16 AM

Agreed- GREAT news! Realize that even when you start to know/understand why there will be an instinct to use when things get tough or difficult. But knowing that it happened makes it so much clearer.

All that to say- GREAT first step. They don’t always come so easy, so be kind to yourself and walk your path.

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 11:56 AM

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hikingout posted 1/28/2020 12:07 PM

I read many of those things in back when I was in your place. They helped me keep focused on the question that I was ultimately asking - how am I going to get excited about my life? What is sustainable? It was a lot of experimentation and a lot of failing and trying again. Knowing we used a hand ither was an early step but a journey of a thousand miles start with one step. Keep going. Remind yourself when you are pining that’s what you are really pining for is your own self love, your own ability to make yourself happy. You don’t want or need him, you want the good feelings back. This pain is to remind you to not make the good feelings based on external things. It’s tough but so are you.

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 13:13 PM

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MrCleanSlate posted 1/28/2020 13:40 PM

rewritemyending,

I fell hook, line and sinker for it and didn't give a crap who I hurt....even forgot I was married to a certain level. I wanted a piece of that pie and got it.

Join the club with every other wayward in history. (Amazing how some icing sugar makes the shit pie look good)

I made my BW out to be the most insensitive, cold, sexless, bitch of a wife ever.

And my AP was it.

Yeah, she was kind of crazy, divorced, cheated before, on drugs, worried about children's aid coming for her kid, behind on bills, etc. But none of that mattered, because dammit I was getting some good sex and she told me how great I was and that my shit didn't stink and my idea to grow grapes in the arctic was the best ever, and she just hung on every word of mine. I was THE MAN. I MATTERED. Or so I thought. Oh, and by the way, could I help out with the mortgage payment seeing as tax refund is late? Yeah, not so much.

After I got my head out of my massively stretched ass following D-Day it was amazing how my BW and I found so much stuff to do together once we became a couple again. You really never know what you have.

Edit - Or it could be like a friend of mine. She had an exit affair. Found the love of her life. They got married a few years ago. Mind you, her kids, mother, sister and family want nothing to do with her after she declared her love for OM on Valentine's Day and left her xBH and kids so SHE could have the good life. She is still hurting over that years later. And her now adult boys blow off her attempts to communicate all the time.

Selfish much?

[This message edited by MrCleanSlate at 1:47 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 14:08 PM

[This message edited by rewritemyending at 10:02 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]

MrCleanSlate posted 1/28/2020 14:25 PM

I exaggerated a bit about my AP. She was worse. I'm talking rabbit in the pot crazy, go to the police get restraining order crazy. But I didn't see any of that at the time of the A.

My friend that blew up her M with her exit affair has regrets. I have regrets having an A and really always wanting to have the great M I have after R.
Both of those carried a lot of unnecessary pain.

If you're going to do anything, do it above board and out in the open so you can hold your head high later on.

My guilt today is way worse than it was at D-Day.

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 14:29 PM

[This message edited by rewritemyending at 10:02 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]

MrCleanSlate posted 1/28/2020 14:50 PM

If you plan to blow it all up and 'live your dream', then do it without regrets.

You went and had some fun. We waywards all did that. That is the draw, isn't it? Being put on a pedestal. Kind of like being 18 again. When I was 18 my erection would pop up when the bus went over a bump on the road. I really liked taking the bus back then what with all the bumps and the variety of women to look at. Mind you these days I prefer my leather seats in my car. LOL.

JBWD posted 1/28/2020 15:02 PM

First off- The having it all BUT a husband who appreciates x, y, or z... Things to consider: At one point you decided you loved this man and took the effort to make promises that are remarkable. If you think back to that time, does it affect how you view these claims? I say that because all of the intervening LIFE that becomes a rationalization for a lot of us, can be viewed as an excuse. I think you could find that those walls you attribute to him? Might not have been built by his hands alone. And consequently to look at that as reason to give up requires AT LEAST the time to see it for what it is.

R isn’t for everyone but you at least need to have a clear picture of your hand in some of the unaddressed past if you’re ever going to find the healthy relationship you describe.

Re: divorce I’m likely the worst spirit guide ever for such matters. BW JUST got a job this week which was what she was waiting for to set conditions for mediation and divorce. So the surprises, I couldn’t tell ya. The D forum might have info if you have specific questions...

ETA: Tipping point was me still being led by the nose by selfish emotions. We were barely a month into trial separation and she was clearly softening when I knew I had to tell her that I’d continued contact with AP for months afterwards.

[This message edited by JBWD at 3:05 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 15:10 PM

[This message edited by rewritemyending at 10:05 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 15:16 PM

[This message edited by rewritemyending at 10:06 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]

MrCleanSlate posted 1/28/2020 15:55 PM

We all have to smile, even in the face of absurdity

hikingout posted 1/28/2020 15:59 PM

rewritemyending,

I am running a very successful small company and have for almost 20 years, there are wonderful people to work with I have many outside groups I belong to. I have a side business with my husband. I have a beautiful home, take wonderful vacations, and have 3 children who have grown into outstanding adults. So, accomplishments and outward things don't always speak to our self worth or love. It's not that I am not a passionate person who had no outside endeavors.-

The way I was in my relationship - I did not have the kinds of boundaries and a healthy look at deserving love for who I am. Only what I could do, so I hustled for love. I don't think that's what you did, but I think you accepted a relationship you weren't happy with for a long time, that to itself means you were not acting in self love to try and bring the effort forth to fix it or nix it. In fact, it sounds like you were actually pretty toxic to your husband in your own way and that you were equally responsible for the ultimate demise of the relationship. Someone who loves themselves doesn't hurt others, they are compassionate and empathetic. Our love and respect for ourselves is the foundation of our relationships and in navigating our relationships.

I also think that there is a huge difference in a person who we romanticize to be who we hope they are, and how a relationship that has no responsibilities feels in the face of a long term one. Love is about putting effort into other people. We experience love the most in that effort we expend rather than what we get in return. In an affair, we are far more the type of person who is looking for someone else to make us happy.

I don't know if you have a self love issue, but it does sound like you are not fulfilled where it matters. Rather than taking your share of the responsibility of that you are escaping your reality with fantasy. Self love might not be your why, but I have not met many WS that wasn't the case for.

A lot of times instead of acting in vulnerability in our close relationships we end up acting in transactional ways. We look for this to give that. That's not love. Often the issue with being afraid to be vulnerable is there are pieces of our past, whether they are trauma or other mounting issues that have taught us to be self protective. I think at some point your relationship with your husband became transactional. Both acting in pride rather than turning together. There is no way that is built up with the AP yet. But, any relationship you move towards is going to end up that way because you are half of the equation.

I would assess that anyone who acts outside of their integrity, who would destroy other people or their family, or would cheat instead of working out their current situation in either fixing it or divorcing does not have their own best interests at heart. You are not loving someone that you do not have their best interests at heart. That's why I know when I had an affair I didn't love anyone - my husband, myself or the AP.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:01 PM, January 28th (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 1/28/2020 16:08 PM

I may not be meant to be married at all... to anyone.

I will also add that was my conclusion at one point. That I didn't want to be married at all...to anyone...

I think get your therapy for a while and then start thinking about outcomes. I am not convinced that you can not have a better marriage with this man you are married to if you decide that is what you want. It will just require a lot of hard work to get it where it needs to go.

The problem with affairs is they are smoke and mirrors. True love is not the high feelings. True love happens after the high feelings wear off and the work sets in. Getting that straight is important because no relationship keeps the new care feeling for the long term...you instead have to learn to appreciate the much smaller things between you and celebrate them. Long term marriage that feels happy is mindset in which you look through the lens of appreciation rather than the lens of what have you done for me lately.

Maybe you are married to a horrific man who has done horrific things, I don't get the sense of that from what you wrote. Sounds more like you have both put up with a lot of things and made concessions neither of you wanted to and didn't elect to communicate effectively over any of it? I apologize if I am wrong, but that's the picture I have gotten from you so far. You have concocted your husband is the enemy here as part of your justification for having the affair. It will take a while for that layer of the onion to expose itself.

BluesPower posted 1/28/2020 16:22 PM

So let me glean a little more from you while it's still free... the whole self love thing just doesn't speak to me ...yet. I actually know exactly what makes me happy and am actively doing those things both personally and professionally. I have tons of things that get me excited about my future and am fearlessly implementing these things. I wake up everyday with exciting projects and goals and missions that involve friends and adventures that don't hurt anyone else or use questionable ethics. What I don't have is a spouse who sees and admires this side of me or partners with me in any of them. In fact he stonewalls, shuts my ideas down and makes it harder for me. What happened was out of the blue, my AP noticed all these sides to me and admired them... in fact put me on a pedestal and worshipped them to a point of fantasy. I was so thirsty for and so disconnected from my spouse, that I fell hook, line and sinker for it and didn't give a crap who I hurt....even forgot I was married to a certain level. I wanted a piece of that pie and got it. And now I know it's out there and don't want to not have it (someone who admires and has these same sides as myself and wants to partner with me). I just don't want him to be married.

I know that you are trying I get that. And please understand that I am not trying to be mean...

When you say that AP saw and admired all the cool things about you... Wow are you really that naïve.

Look, as a former POS, no he did not admire all your great qualities... He used it as an opening. He could see that Hubby was not with your (Flag Number 1), you were probably giving the look at me vibe (Flag Number 2) and when he met you he just loved to hear you talk and you let him (Flag Number 3)...

I will stop there, you know how it ended.

You got the be his next side piece...

I am so ashamed of the things I used to do, I was disgusting...

rewritemyending - Do you honestly believe the things that you write like this. Can you not see what and why he "Admired" you????

And I am not saying that you may be hot, and cute, and bubbly, and everything under the sun... In the end you were a side piece...

Zugzwang posted 1/28/2020 16:56 PM

Also, how do you know if you love yourself enough? I actually wonder if I love myself too much.

Are you sure about that? If you loved yourself, wouldn't you have demanded more self respect and not cheated? I mean, that is about the most disrespectful thing we could do to ourselves. If you loved yourself, would you need other people to make you happy? If you loved yourself, wouldn't you have loved and respected yourself enough to have divorced years ago when your husband refused to meet your demands/wants/needs?

You are still using the marriage as the excuse as to why you cheated. If the marriage was that bad, then why didn't you divorce. So...when you really look at it...even if you wanted to blame the marriage...the real truth is that you wouldn't do the honorable and right thing and divorce...making it still all about you and not the marriage. Your coping skills. Your problem solving skills. Or if it applies as you said, being a coward because you are too afraid to divorce. That isn't a marriage thing or the marriages fault or even your husband's fault. That is yours.

I bet it isn't him you are even missing. It is you. You are using your husband and the marriage as a scapegoat. You miss who you became when you were having an affair. You miss the freedom. You miss behaving like you were single. So, divorce then. Get IC. Work on having to need other people to the point you would do this to yourself and others.

So, 3 years of no touch, no intimacy, no partnership? Can the marriage be saved? No. Not without him knowing what you did. Simply because nothing has changed in 3 years with what he knows now. Why would it be any different?

Just to go on what was stated above. I had two emotional affairs and no. I don't know a damn thing or admire anything about my APs, even though at the time I said I did. I really didn't see them. I saw my mirror image reflected at me through their eyes. I just liked having someone sit in my shit with me without holding me accountable. They didn't matter even if at the time I said they did. Hell, I couldn't even tell you their eye colors. All I really remember is that they were like me. You are enamored with your mirror image in someone else.

rewritemyending posted 1/28/2020 21:18 PM

[This message edited by rewritemyending at 10:04 PM, January 30th (Thursday)]