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Struggling with daughter

Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4

BeyondRage posted 11/27/2019 11:13 AM

LD,

Take what helps you and leave the rest. You do not owe and explanation to everyone who comments.

There comes a point when the 2X4s have to stop and help needs to begin.

Just my opinion.

I will not comment of what you did or hubby has or is doing.

Short term, you have to get that apartment straightened out. This is not a two week separation and not a sprint. No one knows how it will work out regardless of what you do. Ignore these absolute predictions.

Just make sure this damm therapist is better than the last two or walk.They are a dime a dozen

[This message edited by BeyondRage at 11:13 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 11:18 AM

No disrespect? LOL. Okay.

Just so you know, I was one of her biggest supporters, for quite a while, I was her cheerleader. I actually believed her. I stuck up for her. I believed in what she was saying, and I believed her remorse was real. Then it came out that she was lying to everybody. So am I a bit jaded? Probably. I have stayed away from her threads, since the truth came out. I bit my tongue. And honestly, most of my comments on this thread were not even directed towards her. They're directed towards LostGirl, basically saying her husband needs to get over it and respect her, forgive her and love her, for the child. On one hand that might be true. But on the other hand, considering the man is weeks from his second D-Day, it shows an appalling lack of understanding, compassion, and empathy. And, as a betrayed spouse, when I read that? It triggers. Absolutely. It is so incredibly insensitive to the shitshow her husband has been through.

What have you contributed to this thread? Other than to call me out. Oh, that's right. Not a damn thing.

I am still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Which is more than I can say about most people on this board. For good reason. I do think that the child is acting out because of the circumstances she's been thrown into. I think a little bit of leeway might be necessary for the kid right now. A little bit of understanding, for the child that has had her world turned upside down. Does that means she should be allowed to disrespect her mother? No. But I do think that she needs to be parented with discipline, and compassion right now.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:23 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 11:21 AM

And isn't bugger off,basically British slang for telling someone to fuck off?

Seriously? I'd say it back, but I'm pretty sure telling another member to fuck off violates a guideline. Maybe because you used British slang,you will get away with it.

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 11:25 AM

Manishsdad, thank You! I appreciate it.

Please tell your wife, I think of her often,and hope she,and your family, are doing well.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/27/2019 11:25 AM

ManishDad,

No disrespect was intended. And to be honest I had no thought as to if it was a woman or a BS posting - as that really should not make a difference. Women or mothers are not saints to be worshipped. They are people.

All I read was someone posting a lot of accusations and not offering any advice or support. I really could care less about who Hellfire is or the history. How is Hellfire helping in this case?

It is not about supporting LD, per se, it is about seeing someone (Hellfire) dumping on a poster and not being helpful. Maybe I'm wrong. It's great to see you step forward, but I'd rather see Hellfire contribute....I'm at the point in life I don't stand for much BS from people since I have learned not to do the same. All of us waywards are here because we lied and cheated and hurt a lot of people. But we are the waywards that are here trying to do better. 2x4's are always a good thing to make a point, but beating for the sake of beating is not helpful.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/27/2019 11:30 AM

Hellfire,

Didn't mean 'Fuck off', I meant 'go away'.
Apology for my poor choice of words.

BTW - I'm Canadian, not British. And threats of guideline breaches....what are we in elementary school here?

So why not contribute something.....Use that axe you're grinding for some good, or keep it to yourself?

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 11:36 AM

Again,most of my comments were directed towards the sentiment in another poster's post, that her BH needs to get over it.

Reminding LD, as she is getting defensive towards members,because they aren't getting the facts straight, that the reason for that is because of her extensive lies isn't a 2x4. It's a reminder to be more mindful that it's confusing for those of us who have been trying to help her.

I have never said I should be worshipped for being a mother, or a woman.

But I will say nothing I said in this thread,or in any other of the OPs threads, has ever warranted you attacking me. Don't like what I'm saying? Then counter it with what you feel is appropriate advice. Telling me to bugger off, was beyond rude.

This is a very well moderated forum. Instead of telling me to bugger off,you could have asked the mods to see if I'm violating the rules of this forum.

Regardless, I have stayed off her threads. But no more. I do believe she has actually reached real remorse. I believe she is trying. I will return to being her cheerleader. And that will include tough love. Dont like it? Bugger off

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:38 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 11:44 AM

Its not a threat of violsting a guideline. They're in place for a reason.

I'm done with you. I will ask you not to address me again. This threadjack has gone on too long. If you have something to contribute to the topic of this thread,please do. So far, it doesn't seem like it. Maybe quit lecturing me on my posting style,and contribute something helpful.

LD, have you and N discussed a way to handle your daughter's snark? Maybe if the two of you can handle it the same way, she will see that she won't be able to get away with it. I do think she needs to be respectful of you. I also think what she is doing is normal and expected. You and N have known for months that there were problems. She didn't. This is new to her. Love her through it. But don't allow her to be disrespectful. Expressing her feelings is one thing. Being hateful is another.

[This message edited by HellFire at 11:46 AM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

LifeDestroyer posted 11/27/2019 11:51 AM

MrCleanSlate, I do appreciate your support. If I wasn't LD, I probably would have said the same thing to Hellfire, BUT I also appreciate her support. I was actually very happy to see her commenting on my thread again. She was right, I really fucked up. In the beginning she wasn't my cheerleader, then she was, then I lied and she was frustrated, then she stopped commenting. I have actually been waiting for her to return. While tough love sucks, I needed hers.


I do know that I need a break from SI. I am not in a good head space right now, mentally and emotionally. Being on here is very hard for me right now. Yes, I caused this, I caused all of the doubting, but right now my brain and everything else can't take it. I have asked N if I can drop our daughter off today because I'm not good and need a minute. She needs a minute where she doesn't have to see her mommy lose it.

Hellfire, I'm glad you believe that I have reached real remorse. I am trying.

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 11:59 AM

I just wanted to say that you asking to drop your daughter off,is a good parenting move. All parents need a break from their kids. Knowing you need time to yourself doesn't make you a bad parent. It shows you're a good mom.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:00 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

gmc94 posted 11/27/2019 12:15 PM

I'm not gonna wade into the one-on-one here, but this

He will tell you that I have always let her walk all over me. He will tell you how frustrated he got with how I handled her or lack there of.
is SUPER telling IMO. I agree with the post about you showed shitty boundaries and your BH needs to see you exercising good ones. Not for him (tho it will help), but for your DD - which will also help you (again all IMO).

Probably some serious projecting here but that quote above could be said about my WH, who spoiled DD rotten from the minute she was born (this does not mean I was a model parent - I wasn't. I was too critical of her and I will live the rest of my life knowing my part in our bad parenting). It was always a bone of contention between us - "frustrated with how [WS] handled her" in an understatement in my house.

I've mentioned before about not becoming a disneyland parent - and from that quote it sounds like you may have been in that boat before dday. I can spend paragraphs and paragraphs about how all of those non boundaries have come to haunt me today, when DD is age 23.

Good boundaries are crucial to parenting... to your DD - even without the A or the S or limbo.

You can kick yourself forever about the A, the TT, the S, etc. I don't see how that helps anything. The measure of one's character isn't necessarily the fuck up - it's how they respond to it. How they take responsibility. How they learn from their bad choices. You are a teacher.. time to learn how to make and enforce boundaries (what do you do with your students?).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:16 PM, November 27th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

hikingout posted 11/27/2019 12:16 PM

LD I am sorry you are having a bad day. I am sure N will enjoy some extra time with your daughter and she will love it as well. I do want to reiterate because I have seen this play out in my own personal life that while compassion for your daughter should be given due to all the changes, you still should be firm with your boundaries with her. Rules and boundaries give children a sense of order and actaually show them you care the way a parent should. . I have seen many a parent indulge them out of guilt. It becomes a runaway train that makes the problem worse.I hope you can find some resources. I know there are a lot of good books on transitional periods for kids.

I hope you get yourself sorted today and can enjoy a nice holiday tomorrow. Take good care.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:16 PM, November 27th (Wednesday)]

MrCleanSlate posted 11/27/2019 13:24 PM

Sorry all.

I thought I was being helpful.

Lostgirl410 posted 11/27/2019 13:43 PM

LD,

I owe you an apology. It has been made clear that I failed in the delivery of my intended message. In my failure, I also managed to trigger some other members pretty heavily. I feel you bore the brunt of it, and I am so very sorry.

To everyone I triggered, I'm sorry for that as well. Please allow me to clarify that "get over it" was NEVER a part of my intended message. I thought I stated more than once that he may not be able to, and that it was his right if he couldn't.

I tend to write like I speak, and sometimes forget the loss of inflection when transitioning from spoken to written word. What was percieved from my post could not have been further from its intention. Again, I apologize.

HellFire posted 11/27/2019 14:04 PM

I can understand that, lost girl. Sometimes it is hard to interpret words, and their meaning. Feelings don't convey well through text,sometimes.

I appreciate the apology, and I accept it. But it's really unnecessary. Sometimes, this site is nothing but a trigger. That's just how it is. And while you did not come out and say you thought he should get over it, that was MY interpretation of what you were saying. Not necessarily what you meant.

Notmine posted 11/27/2019 14:10 PM

I have been an educator for over 20 years and work with some very challenging behaviors.

Yes, your daughter's life has changed and she is trying to come to terms with that, but that does not give her an excuse to be disrespectful. It explains it, but does not excuse it.

Giving choices is a great idea and allows the child to feel some sort control over their destiny. However, the boundary must be established first and consequences implemented if the boundary is not respected. There are behaviors where choices are appropriate and there are dealbreakers. Disrespect, for me, is a dealbreaker. If you are disrespectful, you will not get what you want and there will be an immediate consequence.

If I were dealing with this, I would tell her that it is not ok to say ".....", because it does not feel respectful. It is important for people to treat each other with respect. If you are disrespectful to people in this house, then there will be a consequence. You will lose privileges that you enjoy, like (time doing whatever she really enjoys, i.e., tv, tablet, etc.) or something else that you enjoy doing. There will be no discussion about this. When you are able to speak respectfully to people, we can talk about what it is that is bothering you. I understand that things are confusing for you now and that you feel angry and sad, but I need you to know that I love you and want what is best for you. It is best for you if you do not treat others with disrespect.

The trick to this is is how it is implemented. It is important to be calm and 100% consistent. If you are not consistent in implementing the consequence, then your daughter will learn that you are not serious about it. If she is disrespectful, explain what you did not like, remind her of the rule and implement the consequence immediately. Crying, screaming, etc., should be ignored. Do not argue or bargain. She needs to learn that histrionics do not work and that there is no negotiation. When she is calm and treating you in a better way, she can have the item or activity back. Be prepared. In order to extinguish a behavior, it will get worse before it gets better.

If your daughter is disrespectful when you are out, she can be removed for a time out in the car or taken home immediately. My daughter once had a melt-down in the KFC. She was told that her behavior was not acceptable, the food was thrown out, and she went home to have peanut butter for dinner. I never had this happen in a restaurant again.

It is about making the behavior unrewarding. If it is more rewarding to do the right thing, then that is what children will do.

landclark posted 11/27/2019 16:21 PM

There comes a point when the 2X4s have to stop and help needs to begin.

I agree with this. (The following is NOT directed at any one person, for those who will think this song is about them.)

I think too many people are emotionally invested in this couple and are therefore incapable of offering any helpful advice at this point. I can see why, truly, I did the same thing, but I feel like by continuing to read her posts they’re looking to be triggered. That no matter what she says or does, they will just attack her. Then she responds, they get madder, and then before you know it everybody’s mad. I feel like any response from her that is anything but “Oh my gosh, you’re so right about everything.” gets a lashing.

I guess my long winded point is if you’re not able to offer objective advice or feedback, maybe you shouldn’t be here commenting.

LD, I hope you’re able to navigate the latest struggles with your daughter. I have no useful advice for you. My son can also be disrespectful to me. I’ve been told they do it to those they feel safest with. Ha. Good times.

I would also suggest using the stop sign on your posts from now on. I know you haven’t wanted to do that, but until people can disconnect from your story a bit it might be best.

Zugzwang posted 11/27/2019 16:59 PM

I have been afraid to post about it because of some poster like you who would either say I'm lying about it or that I deserve it.

Honestly, this is part of the reasons why you cheated. Fear. Of what? Honest replies making you think and holding you accountable? Fear of people getting it wrong? So what if we do? We are strangers. Why even worry so much about that? Why would anyone say you deserve it? What about that makes you so fearful that you would think about taking the easy way out? Getting it wrong always makes me wonder. When new posters come here they think they met their soul mate and their BS are these mean ball and chains keeping them from happiness. That we get it wrong. Then a month later they are begging for help to keep their BS which they have always loved . So yes, getting it wrong is usually taken with a grain of salt because WS can read between the lines and see what those that are still working on the deeper issues don't.

Hellfire, I think your posts are spot on. When a BS spouts the truths from a BS perspective it isn't dumping, it is reality. Most likely a nicer one than their own BS is thinking right now. She wasn't accusing, she was offering perspective IMO. Raw, but hey so what- sometimes that is needed and there were plenty of posters that were more compassionate with softer gloves.

Kid gloves have to stop at some point because some WS like myself hate to see other WS swimming in their own shit. APs encourage complacency and commiserating.

OP wouldn't get defensive if she owned more of her impact on her family in a different way. Again not likely to be totally there since she is only shortly out from DDay2 which was put in place by her choice to be selfish for some time at an attempt to protect herself from her the reactions to her actions. Not consequences but the outcome of choosing wrong and easy for so long. It is important she stops seeing this as punishment or consequences but the actual outcome due to her choices. Cause and effect. If she is getting defensive with strangers, is it possible she is getting defensive with her husband and daughter.

LD you TT. You realizes what you were doing and you chose to give your husband the right to make an informed decision. You put your fear aside and you thought about him. That is remorse. Keep working. The holidays can be tuff for anyone. I see it for my wife. She too is a teacher. Enjoy the break. Find something for yourself. Find a way to break through your fears and get the confidence you need to make a real change. Hobby. Bucket list. Go make some memories with your daughter. Talk to your husband and decide what you want to tell her to make this easier for her. We told our daughter and she was 5 going on 6. It was the best decision we made. Daddy cheated on Mommy. When you make a promise and commit it is wrong. Mommy is giving me the grace to fix it. I will work hard to make amends. Mommy taught her about forgiveness. Think about what that means to you both. Forgiveness. Tell your daughter if you want that Daddy gave that grace and you were still to lost to see it.

If you are a teacher then you could probably spot what is and isn't normal 5 year old behaviors. Really think hard about what she is mimicing from you both. She is 5, you have plenty of time to fix this. Get some strength from that. Feel good you took the right and hard path. It really is the little things that add up.

skerzoid posted 12/3/2019 21:00 PM

LD:

Lifelong (and I mean LONG) educator and coach.

I taught and coached my own kids. You have to get over being her Mother and start being her teacher and coach.

You are responsible for brining her up and you cannot let your love for her make you weak.

I treated my kids as my students. Would you let your students talk to you disrespectfully? I think not. You have to treat her in the same manner.

By the way, in school, I made my kids call me Mr. Skerzoid or Coach. It got to be a habit and they would call me that at home.

Seriously, treat her as you would one of your students.

Pippin posted 12/4/2019 07:49 AM

Hi LD, I didn't read the whole thread, just your initial post and the first few, so apologies if this is repetitive.

I think that you are looking for an immediate positive response from your daughter, whether it's events (LD: "let's go to the park!" DD: "no, I hate the park!"), or objects (LD: "would a new toy make you happy?" DD: "yes! gimme that! I mean no, you are terrible!" or "let's have pizza for dinner, last night we had pizza and you were happy." DD: "no! I hate pizza!") or interactions with you (LD: "come sit on my lap and snuggle." DD: "no! I don't like you!"). She's probably learned that if doesn't respond in the way that you want, you will keep offering and keep offering, looking for that positive response from her. That's what you call spoiling. What she has learned is that she has lots of power. That's what kids are built to figure out and it's normal - where do I have agency? Where do I have control? Where do I not have control? Kids should have a reasonable amount of autonomy and power and self expression based on their ages. You are giving her too much power over your interactions with her and over your emotional response.

Does this remind you of interactions from you past? Didn't you have this dynamic with your mother? Over and over, you made the effort to make your mother happy and it never worked. You tried and tried and tried and then gave up, hopeless. And does it remind you of the interactions with the AP? No matter what you did, you made him happy, or at least he pretended to be happy, because then he got what he wanted (sex, and his own ego stroking). It must have felt like an incredible relief to you. In your head you were a bad mother, bad wife, bad teacher, unattractive woman, bad person, but here was this one place where you got instant positive feedback, constantly, every time you looked for it. The relief from the relentless internal attacks that you perpetrate on yourself is addictive.

Back to your daughter. You are BUILT to look for positive feedback, not get it, and keep trying until you give up and feel hopeless. Your mother did that to you. Those neural pathways are deep grooves for you and it all feels very real, like if you get a negative response from DD you really are a bad mother and your world is unsafe. How do you interrupt this pattern?

When you are calm, make a list of what it looks like to be a good mother. A good mother is interested in what her child is interested in. A good mother provides a stable and predictable structure. A good mother allows her child to express her feelings and experience and validates them. Etc. It might take you a while to write it all out, and you could get feedback from people you trust. It's probably a good exercise for you to do.

Then, the next time she has a temper tantrum, and you feel like a terrible mother, go into another room, use your calming/cortisol clearing techniques (deep breathing, imagery, yoga poses, prayer, whatever works for you), and look over your list. Go down it like a checklist and remind yourself that although she is fussing, you are being a good mother. The feelings of being a bad mother WON'T GO AWAY, at least not at first, and probably never. They'll diminish eventually and you'll be able to step outside of them and recognize them as feelings and not reality. In the meantime, you can manage the feelings from a more developed part of your brain instead of just reacting.

I have been honest with her and have told her that when she acts like that it really hurts me.

I know parents who tell children how the child's actions make them feel and truthfully, I don't like that approach. I think it's very important that children are helped to notice the reactions of other people to their behavior ("when you said that angry thing to that other child on the playground, that child looked scared."). But I don't think a child should have control over their parent's emotions. So I would suggest NOT telling her that she has hurt your feelings. How about this: tell her when she is saying those angry things that she needs to go to her angry place and say them. Give her a spot where she can say angry things and then when she is done saying them she can leave the spot. When my kids went through their inevitable mischievous cursing phases I'd tell them that those are dirty words and they could go in the bathroom to say them and they needed to come out of the bathroom with a clean mouth. They would go to the bathroom, sometimes not so voluntarily, and curse at the top of their lungs, hoping I would hear and react. I'd manage my own reactions away from them. Better than giving them power over me.

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