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k8la posted 3/14/2019 09:14 AM

"He who cares the least about a relationship has the most power." - Chinese Proverb

He is counting on your life-long investment in the marriage and your family to allow him to continue being the man who cheated on you.

Your marriage cannot survive that destructive man.

He must change, heart and soul. And that requires remorse and recognition that he has done something so egregious as to cause his own world to implode.

Even though you don't want to take the step to file for divorce, there is no way back to a marriage that is whole and healthy with the man you have before you now. Filing for divorce with the intent to separate your life completely from this toxic man is the only thing that will save your life, and possibly save him from himself. He will either wake up or continue his path to self-destruction for the remainder of his life. You can't save him from himself.

Scoobydoo posted 3/14/2019 16:42 PM

Sadly it looks like itís heading in the direction of a D,
he sent me flowers at work today to say sorry...which I didnít thank him for! however when I returned from work he literally said he wonít move out of the bedroom as distance between us isnít the answer...heís currently in our bed & iv moved into the spare room.
His response was ďIím gonna move out if u wonít work at this togetherĒ followed up with ďI want to go away at the end of the monthĒ (bike racing) he doesnít race, he goes with MY cousin & uncleĒ again I said that was a very big boundary for me as I donít trust him.
He thinks because itís 2 yrs (actually 16 months since I seen the videos) I should be ďover it already & moving onĒ
Heís threatened to move out before numerous times...until I end up caving to his ways

Why canít he c what heís done & continues to do to us,

Itís hard not to dissect ourselves when youíre told constantly over the years that itís your fault when things go wrong

Banging my head against a brick wall here...🤦‍♀️

tushnurse posted 3/15/2019 07:35 AM

(((Scooby)))

This isn't for the weak.
Please remember to not listen to the words he speaks You know they are lies. Therefore they are meaningless.

He chooses to blame you rather than look at himself and the pain he has caused. Or do the work to heal his shit.
He wants you to sweep it under the rug, so he can go out and do it again.

See an attorney and figure out what D looks like for you financially.
Take some time to make your new yours.
Right now he is talking out both sides of his mouth. He isn't sure what to do, because you have never done this. Stick to your convictions. You are in the right.

Try to remember he isn't doing the work because he is a selfish broken man. It has NOTHING to do with you and the kind of person you are.

MamaDragon posted 3/15/2019 10:27 AM

next time he wants to know if you want him to move out, ask him if he needs help packing.

Tell him the only way you are willing to work on things are if he gives you 100% access to all electronic devices and social media to include email, texts, messenger etc.

From what you have said regarding him not going anywhere without you - that all PA might be over - the emotional ones *might* be there. It might be worth working through your triggers. It took me a good 5 years before I didn't trigger all the time, and even now I sometimes get one. Working with MC and IC has helped though.

Good luck and big hugs

k94ever posted 3/15/2019 11:07 AM

Scooby you are married to a man-child and it's pretty obvious he has no intention of changing.

He's "nicing you" until such time he feels you are securely back in your place of being the oblivious house wife and then he will start cheating again.

I know this because I lived it.

Sign up and attend IC for YOU!!!! Start putting yourself FIRST.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. But you will survive it.

k9

annanew posted 3/15/2019 11:57 AM

Your WH is one of those types that is just not going to get it until you file for D.

So, file for D. Don't overthink it. If you need too, make a list of everything you've told us here. He's simply not going to come around on his own to this, and you can't do it for him. D might wake him up. It might not. But he's not going to wake up without it.

His behavior is horrible, I don't think you are fully seeing it for what it is. The reason you don't see it is that you've had years of conditioning. It's completely horrible that he would blame YOU for not giving him enough attention when you were pregnant and giving birth to TWINS. He has the maturity and self-centeredness of a teenager. I'm betting you felt bad and have had sex with him a ton more than you wanted to during your marriage. Or if not sex then appeasing him in other ways and babying him.

trustedg posted 3/15/2019 12:14 PM

Ugh, Scooby.

what the hell is wrong with me that he can't want to make it work with/or for me??
Please realize that the problem is not you, it is him! He is a serial cheater, liar, a cheat, basically a disgusting man (screwing a young girl at a stag party, come on!).
"Iím gonna move out if u wonít work at this togetherĒ
Ha! He has done NO WORK, doesn't sound like he is ready to do the work now. Let him leave. See an attorney.
he doesnít race, he goes with MY cousin & uncle
Expose him to your family.
Itís hard not to dissect ourselves when youíre told constantly over the years that itís your fault when things go wrong
So true, but the time to stop that is now.

This is not your fault.
Stop letting him abuse you.

Scoobydoo posted 3/15/2019 13:38 PM

OMG, I want to ask 'have you met my husband to each & everyone of you as you ALL know him so well'...I truly never realised how common & how predictable WS's actually behave.
I spent time today with my DIL (I consider her a friend as well as family) She's been waiting patiently for the penny to drop for me, as I said I moved out on the 3rd DD moved back after a week as he'd threatened to move away or take other drastic actions, I thought I was protecting my kids when I moved back...I now see I was wrong as we've been Rug sweeping ever since, she pointed out to me today that yes like you have all reached the same conclusion my H is definitely a man child, add to the mix he has extremely good ways of manipulation on myself & situations. again quite hard to take!

Trustedg
I have exposed him to my family (apart from my Dad Aunt & Uncle, they are definitelyold skool & would'nt forgive him...I love spending time with them & with all my family together) so thats not really an option for me until I know the only move forward is a D, all our friends know (he has lost a few of his friends) mostly my friends have kept out of it as he can be a bit of a bully (again manipulative in situations)
but others (mine & his) have voiced there opinions in great fashion.

Tushnurse
I found my voice telling him I was going to be tested & seeking legal advice (done today) I know I can survive without his income now!!
however I have to wait for testing as dc's don't actually do it here in our area it has to be an actual STD clinic (waiting list for that) but I'm on it.
He's not going to the race now as I actually believe he's scared (not sure how much difference it will make) but he's definitely worried this is it.
Our Eldest & youngest son have told him in no uncertain terms this is his fault stop trying to blame mum I didn't expect this turn of events so fast so I feel slightly blindsided,
he normally sulks for days when anything happens but this side of him rarely makes an appearance,

MamaDragon

love your style lol
I have access to his phone (everything is on there) but getting it from his hand or ear is nearly impossible, however he no longer has a personal email we now share mine,

At what point do u accept he wants to change? how do I deal with it all? I can be strong (I am strong normally) but being detached & cold I am struggling with, I love cuddles, snuggling up, kisses, sex, any affection tbh...how do I stop myself wanting/needing or craving it?


Again from the bottom of my heart I thank each & every 1 of you for taking the time to read my posts & to actually invest in a response when clearly everyone here has there own things to deal with,

I truly am very grateful x

[This message edited by Scoobydoo at 1:41 PM, March 15th (Friday)]

tushnurse posted 3/15/2019 13:45 PM

I found my voice telling him I was going to be tested & seeking legal advice

Stop giving him your playbook.

I know it's hard 22 years of sharing everything but right now you are telling the enemy your plans. I am Pro R and have R'd w/ my WS, but I also have been through this and seen it enough to know that if you tell him your next move he will dance around it. Instead demand what you want of him and be ready for consequences if he doesn't do what you ask.

MamaDragon posted 3/15/2019 14:17 PM

lol I always make sure to warn folks that I'm a bit vindictive when I give advice - I'm working on the whole scorched earth thing when I'm wronged...I'm not where I'd like to be yet. It does serve me well sometimes though!

it is hard to say at what point you accept that he has changed - Tushnurse hit it on the head though - you need to be very vocal on what *YOU* want. Instead of being nice, throw down the gauntlet and tell him exactly how you want him treating you, what you will expect and what you won't accept. Give him time limits for his phone usage if you are together and around family. At my house, phones at the table is a no-no and if caught, I get to peruse the device to my hearts content. lol I've read interesting conversations from my kids. In a way, you have to set boundaries and repercussion's if he doesn't follow through.

In IC and MC, you learn how to set up better communication between you two. You learn how to figure out what you want, what you expect and what you will do if it happens again. **If you have the right therapist, you can learn a lot so if your first one doesn't mesh well with you find another one.

Have you read up on the 180? Sometimes a modified plan helps bring the family back together - plus the folks here have amazing advice, most are not violent like me

MamaDragon posted 3/15/2019 14:20 PM

and good on the no email thing! Wish I had implemented that with mine but well, it's been quite a while since my WH was caught - and I still have access to everything. That won't ever change. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice? Shame on me and hopefully you are wearing flame retardant undies!

WorstClubEver posted 3/15/2019 15:23 PM

((Scooby))

It sounds like you are taking in the wonderful advice you are getting here, that's very good. Stay with it.

One thing I wanted to point out is that your WH has not had 3 A's. He's had 3 A's that you know about and can prove. There's always more.

WH has fed you a lot of obvious lies. You have him on video having sex. And he says it was a one-night-stand?? Doubtful. How many women are willing to let themselves be videoed during their first sexual encounter with a stranger?? Just about...none. He was in contact with her already, likely had already met with her and had sex with her multiple times prior to the occasion he chose to memorialize on his phone (how classy ).

My guess is, if you knew the whole truth about all of the cheating he has actually done, you would be running for the door. Not that what you've described isn't a lot. I'm just saying that when R-worthy spouses start doing the work and getting honest (or when the BS takes them for a polygraph), a LOT more comes out than what the BS could prove and what the WS originally admitted to. "3 meet-ups and a kiss" turns into "50 meet-ups and 12 sessions of sex." "One one-night stand" turns into "an 18-month affair with countless sexual encounters, 'I love you's and plans to run away together."

So take everything he's been willing to admit to (which sounds like the bare possible minimum he would have to admit to based on hard evidence you have in hand) as the tip of the iceberg. Because that's all it is.

And I know that really sucks for you. Along with the rest of this horrible shit show that he's forced you into. But it's essential you have your eyes wide open at this time, which means never taking what he says he's done as anything close to the full truth.

At what point do u accept he wants to change?

The ONLY way you accept that he wants to change is:

1) He admits to you he knows he's broken and needs to fix himself before he can be the H you need and deserve.

2) He books himself IC, goes, and shows that he is learning about himself and changing old habits/ patterns.

3) He takes initiative to give you full transparency, offering to let you see his phone and all devices, and giving you all his passwords.

4) He is completely non-defensive about his cheating and makes statements to you that indicate he is holding himself fully accountable for his A's, not referring to them as "mistakes" or reminding you "it's in the past" etc.

5) He treats your pain with empathy and understanding, is willing to listen to you talk about how his infidelity has affected you, and seems genuinely curious and concerned to know what you are thinking and feeling. He NEVER makes references to how you should "get over it" or "leave it in the past." He is patient, and allows you the time you need to process and heal.

6) He keeps up with all of the above, lovingly and consistently, for 2-5 years while you rebuild your M...and then shows you the new man he has become, for life.

Those are the steps to change you can trust in a WS. If he can't do #1, R is dead at the door.

how do I deal with it all? I can be strong (I am strong normally) but being detached & cold I am struggling with, I love cuddles, snuggling up, kisses, sex, any affection tbh...how do I stop myself wanting/needing or craving it?

Pair-bonding and attachment are powerful things. It's biological.

There is a depressing experiment called "Harlow's Monkey Experiment." It's about mothers and infants, but biologically this is very similar to pair-bonding (as you do with your spouse). Basically, an infant monkey is deprived of its mother, and then offered them a piece of terry cloth in her place. In the absence of mom, the monkey cuddles with the terry cloth, and uses it to soothe themselves.

Right now, your WH is that bit of terry cloth. The man you married and loved (or thought he was) is no longer, and this is all that is left. There is nothing in him that you need, or is helping you, any more. But you still have the urge to cuddle with the scrap of cloth he has become, to soothe yourself. It's completely normal. EVERY BS goes through that feeling.

But you can start by bringing this analogy to mind every time you feel the urge to run to him, cuddle, etc. Remind yourself: "That is not the man I love. That is just a scrap of cloth, pretending to be him."

And then find ways to soothe and comfort and love yourself. Be the love you need.

Scoobydoo posted 3/15/2019 15:30 PM

I told him abt the solicitor & dcís after Iíd been...he knew the std testing was on the cards this whole time as iv never been quiet, neither has our friends...heís been worried bc the children have said if Iíve caught anything from him they will be mad as hell (theyíre reactions will be off the charts) he doesnít actually know Iím waiting for an appointment! He can wait just like me 😉
I have spoken to him abt the solicitors advice ( he canít hold money over me anymore as I will manage) yay score 1 for me
Not really a score for me but itís a weight of my shoulders,

He thinks Iím talking to someone online now as Iím using words & doings things that are ďunusualĒ for me...ummm I may have used the word ďserial cheatĒ mentioned in this thread!!
Again thank you for all ur feedback x

Scoobydoo posted 3/15/2019 16:21 PM

WorseClubEver


Holy Mac...no band aid huh,
I do Agree with you though, he's drip fed me information (depending on what I already knew or what I have seen,
think its besides the point now if it was a one nighter or a full affair..damage has been done!

I have spoken to numerous friends over the last few days so they are all aware of whats happening at this present time...funny how none of them were shocked. I have a really good support system surrounding me (work, family & friends)

That piece of cloth...more like a rag now, its no longer soft & cuddly for me, so I think I'll pass lol

Its early days but I won't hold my breath for him doing any of the 1 to 6 steps for me or himself.

Its late evening here now & he's just thrown his dummy out the pram because we're sleeping separately again, however I'm sticking to MY guns & I've claimed my bed for the night...GO ME

Trust me I'm sure there will be more yo-yo'ing before its clear what lies ahead for us,
however for me I'm going to continue to gain strength, self respect, & smile a hell of a lot more

thank you again x


Tripletrouble posted 3/15/2019 16:47 PM

Scooby you are doing great at taking the advice given here and putting yourself in the right place to move forward. Letís talk a moment about what you can expect as your WH starts to experience some shock and awe. He has lived as a cheater always, and for the first time he is getting some consequences. Expect some strong reactions. I predict two, and they will vacillate. The first is known as hoovering. He is going to amp up the nice. Gift giving, flowers, lovey cards. Wipe your butt with these things. The other behavior will be some tantruming. Much in the way a small child will escalate the screaming when they hear no, he will push back on his new boundaries.

WhatElseToDo posted 3/15/2019 16:56 PM

he's just thrown his dummy out the pram

This quote is gold!

Scooby, I love to see you taking your power back. How does it feel? Keep sticking to your guns. Here's the thing about infidelity: if you want to get out of it, something has to change. Either he has to change, or you do - ideally both, but you don't need his permission to take back your life. And frankly, husbands like that are dead weight. Time for him to put his big boy boxers on, or get out of the way!

Scoobydoo posted 3/17/2019 04:37 AM

Just a quick update...the last 2/3 days have been filled with either angry statements or depressive sulking, feeling slightly guilty for doing this now instead of before (when it came to light) either way I feel I shouldnít give in!
The more he sulks the bigger I feel..is that normal or wrong?
He reached out to our youngest son to test the waters with me, (this is the son he made delete all the evidence of his betrayal ie all pictures & videos he made) our son had to witness this firsthand to do this! ASS####!!! Anyway I had to be pretty ruthless & blunt with him, our son is a fixer which his dad was counting on, NOT ANYMORE!

I donít know if thereís a timeline for this type of thing so I presume Iíll just go with the flow.
My H is definitely a man that doesnít have a full tool box on a job, it will take him a long time to work out what he has to do to TRY & fix himself or us.

Your advice & support is appreciated in so many ways,
If I had been doing this on my own I wouldíve given in by now (itís why Iím back in this s###storm again)

This week will be the real test as in his eyes Iíve made my point...now itís time to get back to normal 🤦‍♀️

Scoobydoo posted 3/17/2019 05:17 AM

Also wanted to add I spent time with my best friend yesterday after our GS's birthday party (he kept a slight distance from all of us together), I didn't ask for permission to visit her I TOLD him, the first thing he said was don't tell her whats going on with us atm...lol like he has control of my emotions, actions, or decisions, bloody man is delusional, what I equaled to a working marriage for both of us was in fact me being Manipulated & emotionally blackmailed,

These may be small steps in others eyes but trust me when I say these are pretty big steps for me.

WhatElseToDo,

believe me its not the first time myself, my dad, our children have used that analogy in regards to him & his tantrums, so much so his friends actually use it to,
either his dummy or his toys are always being thrown around lol

MamaDragon posted 3/18/2019 14:18 PM

Scooby - how are you doing?

In my head I can see your WH going "RUH RO"

Keep on feeling "bigger" because you are rocking on and keeping your head held high.

You are doing great, don't bow down to him. You got your b*tch boots on, stomp 'em!

(hugs)

Hurtmyheart posted 3/18/2019 15:42 PM

As I was reading your post Scooby, at first I felt you were being too nice to your WH and he was taking advantage of and bulldozing you over with his niceness, lies, manipulation and control tactics, just as I also allowed my WH do to me!

But now I'm seeing a strength rising within you, arising and you taking control of your life! This is exactly what needs to happen!!!

Great job, Scooby!

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