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Odonna posted 6/20/2019 08:29 AM

Well, before you decide go back above and read your May 15th and 19th posts. Your entire marriage has been with a selfish narcissistic man. You are still struggling in IC to find out why you let yourself tolerate that all those 32 years. Really read your posts as if they were written by your sister or daughter.

If you let him come what are the odds of slipping right back into a dysfunctional marriage with a man who will not even go to IC? Pretty good I would say.

Maybe it is better to go and put spyware on his computer and a couple VARs in the car and house and see what the mouse does while the cat plays in Mexico?

tushnurse posted 6/20/2019 09:54 AM

I have to agree w/ Odonna, he is doing what he believes he needs to do until you "get over it" then because, he has made no real changes in who he is, he will go right back to being a shitty person, and an unsafe partner.

He can put on the act for a while, and it probably seems great to you, but until he does some real work on who he is at a deep personal level, he isn't going to change. Being nice, and decent isn't the goal of R. Him being a safe partner and a man of integrity is the goal of R.

Remember what our friend Dr Phil says "The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior".

Hurtmyheart posted 6/20/2019 10:29 AM

Scooby, I have to agree with Odonna, I also feel you are still vulnerable and may weaken your resolve to getting well and slip back into a dysfunctional marriage.

This is my one complaint about what I didn't do, I hope this helps you out. I didn't allow enough time to pass so that my WH could find the strength within himself to get healthy on his own before I accepted him back. If I would have insisted he do certain things and prove his follow though to me over a period of time, I wouldn't have suffered so much emotional and psychological pain. Is my WH regretful today what I allowed him to put me through? Yes. But honestly, it really wasn't worth it for me to be his support system as he worked his way back to wellness.

I'm telling you from my own experience, make him work his ass off (alone) to prove his love and change to you. Sorry but change does not happen that quickly. It takes several years (usually with IC, AA or other 12 step programs, maybe church, the list goes on. There are a lot of active choices he can make to show you he truly wants to change).

Allow him to lean on others IRL to help him through this mess he created for himself and his family. There is a huge support system network out there waiting to take him in. Let him find them and this also is where you can help and support him. You can even attend meetings with him. I did. It was a good thing.

Make your WH show you by actively doing these things. If there is any real chance of change, this is where you will begin to see it. I thought I read that your WH has done nothing to help himself up to this point, except maybe quit drinking and not going to the bar's? That is not enough. He will eventually work himself back there when things settle down with you again.

I'm telling you, chances are if you let him back in this early, you may regret it. Talk is cheap, allow your WH to show you through his actions (IC, etc) that he has truly changed. At this point, he is still sweet talking and manipulating you to control you. Ask me how I know?

Because I kept calling my WH out about his wandering eye still lingering, he went back this time for IC and it seems to be working. Healing takes forever and if you choose to heal together with your WH, prepare yourself for a very rough emotional roller coaster ride. And believe me, it isn't for the weak at heart. I am not proud that I stood by my WH during this rough period in his life. This was not my job to do and neither is it yours. At least under the same roof. It also made me question why I was able to put up with so much abuse. I already know why, FOO.

My advice to you and it's only advice-continue down your path as an individual. Go by yourself and enjoy. Unless you invite someone to go to Mexico, other than your WH, go alone. My son and his girlfriend go there all the time. They even drive into Mexico. Do I think it is risky? I do but they say things are changing. Life is a risk, go enjoy.

Allow your WH to work for change. Right now, it seems like he is just talking and doing what he needs to do until things settle back down again. Let him see that you can move forward without him in your life. This may impact him greatly to actually take the steps to change and become the husband and father you've always deserved and without adding additional pain to your heart and soul.

This is not the time to test him when he is out and about with you at the bars. Chances are that he will fail and notice other women. There has not been enough time elapsed or actual change on his part to prepare him for this. As others would say, he will only be white knuckling until he gets you back into a submissive state of mind.

I don't know what else to say except that I hope that you are also working on yourself. Without change on both sides, expect to continue down this path of destruction. I would think the eventual goal for you is to have a husband who is true through and through and for you to set your standards of what your expectations are so high that your WH is always running to catch up with you. But, this also requires you to work on yourself.

If you truly love your WH and your WH truly loves you, your marriage can become a beautiful unity. It does take time though, lots of time. The sad part in all of this is that the memories will now always be a part of your marriage but the marriage can become strong again and better than before.

StillLivin posted 6/20/2019 11:42 AM

Wow. Went through your thread and still trying to process everything.
First, no. Why chance ruining your wonderful vacation by adding him to it, even later in the trip? I get it. You want to test him. You can do that on a weekend getaway, once he's earned it over several months time. Let him finish working on himself first.
Second, no, you didn't "deserve" to be treated so shitty. Nobody does. However, I will say that you should expect to be treated bad when you set zero boundaries because bad people do bad things to you if you let them. Deserve and expect are totally different. Over time, you became a volunteer more than a victim. You have your work cut out for you as to why you didnt love yourself enough to walk away after the first affair. Better still, why didnt you walk away because of his selfish shitty treatment of you? I'm not judging, I stayed after some pretty shitty treatment too, and my X was an angel compared to your husband. One of my biggest takeaways was that I should have left the first time he treated me unlike a loving husband who cherished me. It shouldn't have taken him having an affair. My bar was just way too low. I'd say start using your precious time and energy on doing acts of love and kindness for yourself, but you seem to have already caught on. You're going to thoroughly enjoy yourself in your upcoming vacation.
I'm so sorry you're here.
It might help you to make a decision if you make a list. I wrote down everythingack st me he'd ever done that was disrespectful, selfish, or hurt me. Every act. It's been a few years, but I believe it was about 5 pages long before I just stopped. I made my decision once it was in black and white staring back at me. He had not loved me with his actions in a very long time. I deserved better. I tolerated and accepted shit, but I never deserved that. Neither do you.

Ps sorry for the typos, my cat loves to scroll my screen and tap it from time to time.

[This message edited by StillLivin at 11:45 AM, June 20th (Thursday)]

Smashedhrt posted 6/20/2019 12:57 PM

You are 46. You are young and your kids are grown up.
I hope you have a lawyer and clearly understand what you will get in a divorce. Understanding your position is absolutely necessary.

What does he offer to you now? What would you lose by separating from him? Why stay?

I am divorcing my cheating husband. I can never respect him again.

I must add, he is sober, and has been for 5 years. Heís still a narcissist. Sobriety doesnít fix that.

Scoobydoo posted 6/20/2019 13:53 PM

Ok so Iím going to take time in thinking about all of your comments, itís worked for me so far in making decisions since joining SI

Definitely a lot of food for thought

Maybe looking back at my posts is a good start,

Thank you I really do appreciate your opinions,

Hurtmyheart posted 6/20/2019 15:57 PM

Someone else quoted these words on this site and I saved it-

No one changes unless they want to. Not even if you beg them, or even if you shame them. Not even if you reason, use emotion or even tough love. There is only one thing that makes someone change: their own realization that they want to.

Is your WH there yet? I know you love him and it's okay. But he really needs to do the work so that you don't end up going through this horrible mess again. Don't let him off so easily. Show him you mean business and you aren't going to take it anymore.

You are doing so well, Scooby. Keep up the good work. I really believe when all this is said and done, your life will be on the upswing again. And you will be in a better place.

[This message edited by Hurtmyheart at 4:00 PM, June 20th (Thursday)]

Scoobydoo posted 6/21/2019 05:28 AM

Well, before you decide go back above and read your May 15th and 19th posts. Your entire marriage has been with a selfish narcissistic man.

I have to agree w/ Odonna, he is doing what he believes he needs to do until you "get over it" then because, he has made no real changes in who he is, he will go right back to being a shitty person, and an unsafe partner.

I also feel you are still vulnerable and may weaken your resolve to getting well and slip back into a dysfunctional marriage.

First, no. Why chance ruining your wonderful vacation by adding him to it, even later in the trip? I get it. You want to test him. You can do that on a weekend getaway, once he's earned it over several months time

But he really needs to do the work so that you don't end up going through this horrible mess again. Don't let him off so easily. Show him you mean business and you aren't going to take it anymore.

Your WH behaviour change is still very new. Sure it looks good now, the question is will it stick when life settles, when temptation is there and you arenít.

I read & reread my threads, including some other threads I have wrote on, the funny thing is I only stopped myself doing this a few weeks ago...I won't be stopping anytime soon AGAIN, I need to keep reminding myself how bad its been!

Amazing nights sleep & very intense IC this morning

Your right, your all absolutely RIGHT!!!

WTH was I even thinking!!!

I knew in my heart it was to soon, I really DID, No-one changes this fast without whiplash, Therapist said thats what I have...WH has given me whiplash, to many changes in so little time

He is working hard in IC (I do know this) but its still to soon to know if he will change.

Also I need to remind myself it doesn't matter what he's doing, just what I'm doing.

I am working hard in IC, I guess I've had a little slip recently as my therapist pointed out to me this morning,
I have had no feelings of hopium up until recently, for some reason it just appeared out of nowhere leading me to half changing my mind about taking him on MY trip.

Thankfully with your collective wisdom on here & my IC I'm feeling more with it,

OMG I don't know what happened, I'm so pissed at myself, I'm so bloody upset with myself that I let this happen!!

I don't want him there, I don't want to make memories with him in Mexico, damn I hardly want him in the same room as me let alone time together on holiday!!!

The jury is in

MY decision is final


I'm truly grateful for helping me make the best decision for me & my self healing.

edited due to my dog

[This message edited by Scoobydoo at 5:32 AM, June 21st (Friday)]

tushnurse posted 6/21/2019 07:05 AM

Stop beating yourself up.
There is nothing wrong with being hopeful, but you have to use caution.

It takes time, and time filled w/ consistent action to know he really is in it for the long haul, and truly committed to changing his broken ass.

Enjoy your trip to Mexico!!!!

KatieKat posted 6/21/2019 10:01 AM

All your SI pals are cheering for you! Good work and have a blast in Mexico!

Hurtmyheart posted 6/22/2019 16:10 PM

Also I need to remind myself it doesn't matter what he's doing, just what I'm doing.

Actually it does matter what he is doing, if he is working to change, or not.

This statement is one thing I didn't like about Alanon because not making my husbands actions my business is what got me into trouble in the first place. He ran his own show. Lol People would tell me what my WH was doing was his business, not mine. That is not true! I've changed many people's thoughts on this statement. It's complete BS.

If you knew that your WH was going back to the bar's and having his same old behaviors, you would be done with him, right? So what your WH is doing is your business. From this day forward if you so choose R, remember this. That is why waywards are encouraged to give up all access to accounts, phone privacy, location, ect. If at anytime you ask him what he is doing or ask for his phone or anything, if your WH is completely honest and faithful to you and is true to you, he would gladly hand it over or let you know where he is or has gone. If you think about it, this is where your issues in your marriage began, allowing too much freedom and no boundries or accountability. Well, of course also rugsweeping his cheating with another woman and two of your best friends. That is so terrible!

I am glad you are going alone, Scooby. I feel that this will be a wakeup call for your WH and it will also show him that you are not afraid to live your life out alone, without him. Nope, he won't be able to manipulate and control you this time because you are you own person, an individual that deserves the utmost love and respect.

I also hope your WH has gotten on his knee's multiple times by now and cried to you and told you how sorry he is and tells you he is willing to do anything to make it right with you. If this is the case and as the BS, you tell him what you expect and want from him everyday for the rest of your life. No more secrets, no more lies, complete transparency, at your beck and call, an open book from this day forward. You have access to everything he does. There shouldn't be secrets in a marriage anyway. Complete transparency and honesty from the both of you.

I also hope you encourage him to go to AA. I started to read through your posts again but it got kind of hard to read. Esp. the part where you said that he has a big personality and is known at the local pubs. Not cool. He was supposed to be a husband and family man.

[This message edited by Hurtmyheart at 10:13 PM, June 30th (Sunday)]

Scoobydoo posted 6/23/2019 03:56 AM

Before you read this post please know itís not pretty!!!

Itís been a bit of a strange weekend,

So I Told him Friday he wonít be joining me, he was upset but said he understood, pretty surprised he didnít kick off tbh.
Just said to have a great time, to be safe & if I needed him for anything he was just a 10hr flight away!

As itís my birthday today I went out on an arranged girls night on Friday that my BFF set up for me, was absolutely amazing catching up with loads of old friends I donít see very often,

Every time Iíve previously gone out he has gone out too, he has never been able to stay in if I havenít been there,
I rang my youngest son to pick me up (heís always the family taxi as he doesnít drink & loves making sure everyone is safe after a night out) but he wasnít the 1 to get me it was my WH, now trust me this never happens EVER...i was pretty stunned but he just said ďyou keep saying itís actions not words so maybe now you can see I am changingĒ
Got home went to our separate bedrooms & that was that!

read with caution please!!!

Now last night Ďweí had a mutual friends 50th birthday (very special to us both) so we both went, not together but separately, most if not all the people there we are friends with or know them pretty well, again Ďheí didnít drink as he drove to the venue, I was standing at the bar at 1 point with an old friend just chatting when she kind of dropped a bomb on me...
Obviously there hasnít been a big announcement but more & more people know weíre having difficulties,
Anyway weíre just chatting & people watching when she said ďso finally your seeing him for who he isĒ
I chuckled a little & said yeh you could say that,
Another friend then joined us as we continued chatting, reminiscing mostly good times till C (1st friend) started talking about a particular night, I couldnít remember, she said ďYou know the night, it was when Ďheí knocked you clean out when he broke your noseĒ
I didnít have a bloody clue what she was talking about I couldnít remember anything about it, after more chatting & then finding Ďhimí to ask him wtf she was talking about with her along side me as she was convinced he would lie to me, he couldnít lie while she was there as her & a couple other friends had witnessed the whole thing about 10 yrs ago,
(The morning after this particular night I had woken up in the hospital with a broken nose split lip & a bitten tongue after having multiple epileptic fits, I just presumed I had 1 of my episodes & just got on with things when I was discharged)
ĎHeí told me last night it wasnít quite like that...he had hit me so hard it knocked me out cold, thatís when I then had continuous fits enough to be hospitalised, I hadnít actually bought it up to friends as I was embarrassed that Iíd had fits at this party (or so I thought)
turns out he had done this, he never told me what had led to my seizures that night, I couldnít remember anything about it & still donít!! He didnít want to own his shit, he was a coward & blamed my fits on my injuries saying I had hit my face when I had fallen.
Iím reeling today...Iím in utter shock!! I mean WTF

Now today Iím having a family BBQ for my birthday, I have all
my kids & GC, my dad & his partner along with my aunt & uncle, I have to pretend today for the sake of them that Iím ok when in fact Iím not,


Sorry to anyone I upset with this revelation but I need it out, I need to get it out there,

Iím fucking angry!!

Cooley2here posted 6/23/2019 05:00 AM

In the UK he can still be charged. In the US it is called assault and battery. I think you need to consult your attorney about having him charged.

Scoobydoo posted 6/23/2019 06:07 AM


In all honesty I wonít do that because it would absolutely destroy my family, it would split my whole family wide open & im really not up for that

I appreciate your opinion but I just canít do that, my family really have been through enough, my boys would be so upset not only that it happened but add in the lies, deceit & cowardice from Ďhimí in keeping me oblivious, it would obliterate all relationships between them & their dad, also as they were all teens then they would be absolutely gutted they hadnít protected me in some way, even though I would never of asked them to!!

Itís just not worth the heart ache

Iíll bring it up with my IC this week, Iím going to get an earlier appointment instead of waiting till Friday.
I donít want to spin anymore than I have already since last night.

Cooley2here posted 6/23/2019 07:47 AM

Family lies. They are so powerful. Look at the absolute destruction this man has done to your life. It reminds me of the time a woman in her 30s told me that she had been molested by a family member. Her parents believed her but begged her to keep it to herself or it would destroy the family. From the time she was 10 years old until she was 32 she had never told a soul. Guess what her life has been like.
Iím not going to encourage you to do anything thatís going to harm your family. I just hope you divorce him and not look at him ever again because he sounds like an absolute bastard.

nekonamida posted 6/23/2019 07:59 AM

Scooby, what he did is atrocious. And even if he's on his best behavior now, you are in danger as long as you stay with him. You could have died that night. If he does it again, you may not make it out alive.

Right now behaving is easy for him. He's only had to do it for a couple of months. He's not going to be so kind and accommodating when you are still dealing with this years out. It takes 2 - 5 years to heal and possibly longer for you with this new terrible revelation. He's already sounding a little fed up with how you're treating him. There's no way he can keep up the charade.

Do you think he's being honest with his IC about the physical abuse?

cocoplus5nuts posted 6/23/2019 08:02 AM


This is so horrible! I haven't been following this whole thread, so sorry if this has been addressed. Is there any way to get him out of your house? Or, could you leave? You are in a dangerous situation. Who knows what he might do once he realizes that his love bombing isn't going to work. I'm afraid for you. ((Hugs))

Odonna posted 6/23/2019 10:16 AM


Not only did you learn the truth of your injury years ago, but you learned some other things:

1. He hit you in front of others.
2. He lied to you about falling on your face.
3. He let you feel embarrassed for having a seizure.
4. He hid the truth for a decade.

Is the person who could do those things a person you even want to say ďhelloĒ to in the grocery store let alone have in your life?

I know your first instinct is to keep these truths from your kids and family, but really, why? You should not keep his secrets. You were an unwitting partner in his deception but no longer; from now on if you keep his secrets you are protecting him when you should be protecting yourself and others FROM him.

Is he banned from your party today? I hope so.

After your party, which I hope is a total blast, tell him that HE has to tell everyone what he did. The story is already circulating as the two friends you talked to at the party know and will be taking about it with others. Your family will hear about it at some point. So tell him that his actions now must be to take responsibility for what he did and to accept the consequences. That is the only way he might possibly salvage his relationships.

Also, was he dead drunk when he hit you? I bet he was. You have said he often drinks to far excess at parties even though he is not a daily drinker. Alcoholism takes various forms you know. He should also announce to all your family that he has a problem and is going to go to AA.

And Al-Anon will really help you!!

Now enjoy your party and then STAND UP FOR YOU!

Shockedmom posted 6/23/2019 10:28 AM

Your anger is righteous. He assaulted you and then lied to you about it for ages. Honestly, I am shocked your friends never brought it up and worried for your safety after that incident.

I understand that keeping your kids in the dark about this is for their peace of mind. Your WH should start anger management and other intense therapy which hopefully will lead towards owning his crime (yes, it was a crime).

Sending you hugs and the strength to get through today.

Please get some counseling to deal with this new trauma. You have been hurt so deeply that you need the care.

tushnurse posted 6/23/2019 10:53 AM

Thos would beva dealbreaker for me.

Please try not to own shame in this. He allowed you to sustain a head injury and blame it on something else. This is really a dangerous action that could have led to a very different outcome if you had sustained a brain bleed.

Hang in there honey. Even more reason to go on your trip alone. Time to find you.

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