SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After reading a ton of your posts... I have no idea why you thought this of yourself. Really no offense intended but that just seems like a failure of introspection.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. Often times people think of themselves differently than they really are, and they make predictions about what they would do in a given situation without having experienced every nuance of the situation. It's just like when many BS say, going into a relationship, "If my partner ever cheated on me, I would divorce them." And then they build attachment to this person and intertwine their lives, and then after DDay suddenly they're doing the pick me dance, or contemplating reconciliation, or trying to force true reconciliation with a WS that isn't an active participant in the necessary process. So when I hear someone say "I could never cheat" or "I am incapable of infidelity," I question how they can be so sure, so certain they have no "sleeper issues" that would be activated in every situation (and combination of situations) that could possibly arise, and confident that they're not failing to introspect as I did... I'm gonna let it go though. Working on not correcting every imprecise use of language I perceive...I am pleased that people seem more open to considering the "perfect storm" idea though.

You were trying to hold yourself to a standard of monogamy that you literally did not value or fundamentally understand. I'm not saying sleeper issues didn't play a role but that's a monumental difference between you and others.

I understand monogamy just fine. I don't require it from my partner because the idea of him seeing or sleeping other people simply does not produce the jealousy/anxiety/pain/etc. that it does in most other people, so I don't see any reason to impose the same restrictions that monogamous couples do, especially if interactions with others would make him happier. (There are some rules, of course, for safety purposes.) I don't think this trait makes me incapable of fidelity, nor is it a 1-1 correlation between other ENM people's non-monogamy and ability to remain faithful.

Therefore, it stands to reason that people with a completely different set of core values will find it much easier not to cheat. For someone who genuinely values fidelity, monogamy isn't a restrictive rule they have to white-knuckle their way through; it is an intrinsic part of how they love and respect their partner. They don't cheat because doing so would violently clash with who they are at their core.

You're dragging me back into the debate :p but I would say I value my husband, his well-being and happiness, and the integrity of my family immensely. So much of my identity is wrapped up in being a wife and a mother; that's part of who I am. But those values weren't enough to keep me from doing what I did when the perfect storm rolled in. A refrain we hear on SI is that infidelity is a betrayal of oneself as much as it is a betrayal of the spouse.

But that's the last I'm going to say on the matter!!!

[This message edited by GotTheMorbs at 8:46 PM, Wednesday, June 17th]

Morbs I don’t want to sidetrack the survey here but it’s a point that is important for me and I think I got a good insight into that from a lot of direct experience.

We are neither monogamous or polygamous by default. The instinct pulls us towards monogamy because is the best possible survival strategy for us and our offspring.

If we can’t get it we are opportunistically polygamous, because is the fail safe to not securing a safe ideal partner.

Our energy is limited and connections are energy demanding.

That’s why a secure relationship is nourishing and fulfilling, allowing us to live longer, healthier and is the biggest predictor for a successful offspring and their survival.

Promiscuity is costly you have to disperse energy and it becomes selfish and transactional.

You can pick one strategy over the other, but coexistence of both dooms for failure.

I cut it here because I reject self illuding narratives trying to fit dedication with selfishness in the same room (because they are polar opposite), which are so popular recently in the mainstream.

No matter how many believe in a story, that doesn’t make it true. Evidence and logic are still valid, I can’t believe the earth is flat because is trendy (risking to kick the hornet nest here, but you get my drift).

This is a different topic, if it comes up I’ll be happy to tackle it.

In topic, I think relationships have 2 influencing each other willingly or not. This doesn’t change choices and agency but it is plausible that there are elements that may create a perfect storm with our weaknesses.

Discovery of the BS side, a bit unsung, might bring insight. Or not. We will see.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 10:22 PM, Wednesday, June 17th]

.I am pleased that people seem more open to considering the "perfect storm" idea though.

Excuse the threadjack…

I know you are saying this more from anyone can cheat perspective. But either the anyone can cheat or the perfect storm narrative isn’t really a good why.

I mean this as just a way of keeping you from settling on something here that is not helpful to your recovery because I do think I have seen a fair share of minimizations in your posts and I thought of some ways this relates that may help me say something more clearly. Because minimizations are to control perceptions but they are unhelpful in being honest with ourselves. Right now the pain of someone perceptions may be greater for you than the excavation itself? Not sure that’s just a question to hold.

First, I think a perfect storm is so rare it happens once or less in a lifetime. I do not say this because I think one type of cheating is better than another - I don’t believe that at all. And maybe that’s the part you might think about because If you think that relates to your situation think that’s a minimizing thing to believe if you have had multiple affairs. (And maybe you weren’t saying that, but I think there is enough validity to continue because I think I may have some things that maybe helpful to put in perspective even in if my framing of this is slightly off.)

And I am not shaming you at all in the difference. I could have gone on and had more affairs as well,I have proven myself capable of cheating.

I do know you had storms that formed you. So I do not want to minimize that either.

But- a perfect storm would be-totally out of character, and for example the person was having all of the following at once: an existential crisis, the marriage was feeling bad enough to want to leave and live at one of your rentals, your last kid was leaving for college and you are experiencing empty nest, and you were getting ready to leave an executive level position at a company you had been at for 16 years, you are also moving and the year leading up to it your husband started a new business and you were working 16-18 hour days 7 days a week and feeling like you were not doing well at any of it.

This is why I say perfect storm. It does not excuse a bit of what I did. But it served as a reckoning period where I absolutely had to question all my life choices, how I was conducting it, how I was going to navigate not ever getting out of this pain I was in. The perfect storm will send you directly to rock bottom and you know you have no choice you can’t move forward until you clear the debris.

I am not telling you that you weren’t in pain, I believe you were in a lot of pain. As much or more pain than me. The difference is, if the first time you cheated didn’t stop you, then you didn’t hit rock bottom so the onset of this issue is not the perfect storm the onset has been more gradual or patterned than that. And I just hope you will recognize that not because I want you to feel shame, but because I want you to truly heal and to do so you must remain honest with yourself.

The problem with trying to just settle the issue is you don’t find and eradicate that thing that has been holding you back without truly identifying it.

I think you must be making progress because you have learned to be much more cooperative in trying to understand things people say. So you must be doing the work. Just don’t try and settle on something because the more curious you can be the more you will lean into the things that serve you best.

You are worthy of being your best self, and I hope that’s the part you settle on. If you can lean into believing that, continuing the excavation path will be easier. I don’t want you to hang onto the perfect storm theory because it skews your whys.

In fact even though I know my affair has a good chance to qualify as that, I still did the excavation of how I helped create it. And I learned honestly that I had actually most of the responsibility.

I people pleased and should have had boundaries over my time and rest.

I had buried a lot of trauma that I had to unearth and heal.

I didn’t have the communication skills or the maturity to effectively communicate my needs. In fact, I expected him to know my needs.

I could have staggered all the changes we were making.

I could have asked for marriage counseling.

I should have better boundaries with coworkers.

I needed to work on my integrity.

I had to stop letting others have control over my emotions, worth, or any part of my wellbeing. I was responsible for my happiness just as I was responsible for my misery.

I said all that because I think sometimes ws don’t know what to look for or are scared of what you will find. But underneath all of it, perfect storm, multiple affairs, ONS, etc—-is our relationship with ourselves. It’s not scary if you can make that correlation because the traits that you have that made these things possible aren’t that you are the root of all evil. They were simply possible because you have things you can work on. When you isolate them none of them are damning. You can see my list above it isn’t.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:10 PM, Wednesday, June 17th]

BackfromtheStorm
BS here. Some traits I have:

- The most obvious one.. Loyalty.

- Introspective and respectful to nearly everyone. Looking back now I'm realizing that I was too nice. Too accommodating, and too flexible. I should have stood up for myself more. Especially with her.

- I'm learning that I'm likely co-dependent, I think a lot of BS's share this trait.

- I think a lot of BS's are protective and giving of their time. I also share this trait. I used to spend a lot of time trying to protect our family from external threats. I never even considered that the worst threat to our family could come from WITHIN. Now I have chilled out a lot in that area. Whatever comes comes. I'll do my best with what I have if something happens.

I used to spend a lot of time helping friends and family. Moving, fixing things, research, etc. Now I mostly focus on me and what I need to do.

- I too have been rather strict with myself and with others. I have a strong moral code that tends to be a little too black and white. I think that tends to drive people away. It did in my case. I have learned to care less, and allow people to just be themselves. At least thats what I'm trying to do .Though when it comes to infidelity my strictness has increased significantly. I had no idea how destructive it is. Now I know and I have very little tolerance for it obviously. I hope I don't find out someone I know is cheating.. because I'm very likely to tell the person they are cheating on, relationship be dammed.

- I used to take it personally when people were rude. Now I realize that everyone is going through their own struggle. In my case I would walk around, smile, interact with people, and on the inside I was in absolute agony, on the verge of breaking down at any time. Holding up a facade so others wouldn't see the depths of the pain I was in. It's not a weight I think they should bear. So now I give people more leeway for possibly having a hard time, and also care much less if they are jerks.

- Poor self esteem/self worth? Yes. I have always struggled with self worth, and when my wife cheated I had just gone through one of the lowest points in my life. I was just starting to come out of it, and I guess thats when the "perfect storm" hit her. I had no idea how much lower the floor could go, or how much emotional pain I was capable of enduring until now.

- External validation? Not really. I mean I like it when I get validation of course, but I've always been naturally resistant to peer pressure, or people pleasing. I sometimes feel bad for salesmen who come to my door to sell me something because if I'm not interested, there is literally nothing they can do to convince me no matter how good they are. When people try to peer pressure me they are always disappointed no matter how many of them there are. I guess I'm stubborn that way.