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leftbroken ( Member #53741) posted at 6:19 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Remorse comes in the form of actions and all her actions are not consistent with remorse.

Remorse is offering full transparency and sticking to it. Remorse is begging for a chance at reconciliation. Remorse is showing a full effort to regain your trust. None of these are happening.

Sign the divorce papers and start the clock ticking. Tell her she has until the the divorce goes through to convince you that she wants a second chance otherwise the ball keeps rolling. Remember she filed not you, she wanted the divorce and she is the one that cheated, it’s time you took back the control.

our lives are a novel and we its authors, if you don't like the plot only you can change it.

posts: 115   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2016   ·   location: Calgary, AB
id 8583483
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Tren0R201 ( Member #39633) posted at 6:38 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Yesterday was my 1st 'test'

Her first test was engaging in an affair and sleeping with her boyfriend.

There should be no more tests. She's a grown woman who is still communicating with her boyfriend and as yet is still divorcing you and as yet still not being honest with you.

Tears are placatory and the proof is in the pudding not the tears. She receives messages from him then cries to you? How does that work?

posts: 1772   ·   registered: Jun. 22nd, 2013
id 8583491
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 6:38 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

beenthereinco:

1.) To be discussed this weekend.

2.) Alleged to have occurred. But in order to R, she'll have to do it a 2nd time completely by the SI book (so glad I found this place!)

3.) Last night she expressed desire to view a film on the subject of marital reconciliation with me. Knowing our history, this is typically the 1st step we'd take exploring a new concept together (a movie or documentary about the subject) Will see how that unfolds.

4.) This has already been done, she very recently had her first session and her therapist has reached out to me as well to offer her assistance to us both for marital counseling. This happened one day before D-day and now makes much more sense why she said that.

[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 1:15 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583492
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 6:58 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

LeftBroken: Thank you!

I have never dealt with this type of experience before, don't know what to look for..dont know what to ask, to expect - so I appreciate your help!

I cannot provide word for word transcripts of what is said over the course of events now on its 3rd day heading into a 3 day weekend where much will be discussed.

Neither of us are the beg/grovel types.But we have both brought up the topic of R as a possibility to be discussed. She has expressed desire to earn my forgiveness. And she has done so with enough apparent sincerity to confuse me.

The papers...I have no choice but to sign, otherwise I will default. The idea here is are we going to put a stay (hold) on the proceedings or will allow the divorce to occur.

I have made it very apparent my confidence in a happy life with or without her as I have been preparing myself for either scenario long before I found out about the A.

Tren0: Touche' Thank you for your input! You are right, I don't have much to go with right now - but right now I am not exactly sure where I want to go.

I will have much more clarity by the end of this weekend, especially due to all the info I found here to help guide my way

[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 1:00 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583502
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beenthereinco ( Member #56409) posted at 7:36 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Good luck with all of this over the weekend. I would just caution you that you don't have to make a decision this weekend, Don't put that kind of artificial deadline on yourself. If you need to sign the divorce papers right now that she filed to not put yourself in a disadvantage then by all means sign them.

Find some time to take a break from all of this if you can this weekend. Take a walk, go for a run, workout, something. Don't spend all weekend in some kind of intense discussion non-stop. You won't make good decisions after so much emotion.

posts: 1429   ·   registered: Dec. 13th, 2016
id 8583519
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 8:32 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Thank you so much Beenthereinco!

I definitely planned to pace out our discussions over the 3-day weekend to avoid a massive marathon that burns us out. I already feel a huge emotional hangover from D-day and like you mention, don't feel at the top of my game right now.

And I agree that we shouldn't be putting a deadline on a formal decision, but it would be good to come to a decision if we put a hold on the divorce proceedings or not because the court timeline is firm.

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583547
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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 8:34 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Lots of lengthy emotional discussions that you've lost track of?

Consider starting a journal of each convo.

posts: 2408   ·   registered: Jul. 22nd, 2018   ·   location: DC
id 8583550
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oldtruck ( Member #62540) posted at 9:04 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

you need to spell out clearly and calmly that she failed to tell

you when the OM breaks NC.

you having to ask her if the OM broke NC is not the same as

her volunteering to tell you as soon as breaking NC happens.

that she cannot delete any messages or voice mails from the

OM until read, hear them. also a way for you to gather proof

to show the OM wife.

a PI will be able to get you the OMW contact information.

maybe an OM FB page will help you find OMW contact info

posts: 1383   ·   registered: Feb. 2nd, 2018
id 8583558
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 9:12 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

She offered to disclose AP contact attempts on D-day when she said the A would be ended. Yesterday was my 1st 'test' and she sorta failed because she didn't volunteer, and while her replies matched the pattern I thought I saw, without evidence of what was said because the message was deleted...I cannot be sure what really happened. I do see record there was no response, but that could simply be because she picked up her work phone and dialed him directly.

She didn't sorta fail, she absolutely failed.

The test was to disclose, not match a pattern you observe from spying on her.

She didn't disclose.

Further, deleting anything is additional lying and hiding.

Its hard for me to understand how she can manufacture such tears and the look in her eyes when she cries them. How can I verify she has authentic remorse for me and our family and not just crying out of guilt/shame she got caught?

Tears are not an indication of remorse whatsoever. Tears are easy for somebody who has been busted doing something that is so incredibly wrong, betraying her husband and her vows.

That doesn't mean the tears are "fake", it just means they are self-serving bullshit that you should try your best to ignore.

Tell me who is really crying, at least on the inside - you or her?

My wife told me she wanted to watch a movie about a married couple's reconiliation with me. I agreed to watch the film with her, but not tonight

Careful - such material is usually of the nature of: "The cheater feels bad (now that they are caught), and they really didn't mean no harm, and they were conflicted, but she/he had her reasons. So now that they know they done wrong, betrayed spouse, please commence to rugsweeping and eating a shit sandwich."

Facts:

• Your wife cheated on you

• She did not confess, she was caught

• It was an exit affair, and she was going to divorce you leaving you in the dark about her betrayal.

• She is still in contact with the other man

• She has not met the bare minimums of what she volunteered she would do as a safe partner

• She is jumping into "reconciliation stuff" without having done shit as far as true reconciliation actions.

And that is what it is - her actions - that tell you whether or not she is "authentic" and even then you will never truly know.

Unless you take your spying to the next level dude.

Anyway, the more important question than her remorse and authenticity is can you live with her after what she has done? Will you still want her once you find out the real dirty details, what she said, what she did, how she deceived you and betrayed your family?

You don't even know if this is her only time doing this.

You need to know more.

And then, all the recovery, reconciliation etc. - should you decide to grant her the chance - that stuff takes years to find its way and cement itself.

You can try hard for years and just decide: "Nope, fuck this."

And by the way, that is your right. In fact, that is what she did, without even telling you.

Good luck brother. Spy. I know you are resisting it, but spying is how you will know what's what.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 3:20 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

posts: 872   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8583562
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:43 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Robert: There has been so much discussion so far since D-day...its been exhausting. A journal is a great idea to help keep track - meeting notes or something. I also thought about doing my best to limit discussion on heavy topic to an hour or so and then take a break of some kind. I do not want to be grinding on this the next 36hrs straight! lol

OldTruck: Thank you for your comment. I have yet to spell out any NC requirements because I have yet to commit to a reconciliation at this point and we haven't discussed such details. (I am still learning about all the things that go along with a real R attempt)

She is the one in damage control mode right now. I am not sure why she bothers if her mind is already made. I don't know why she got offended when I expressed I wasn't sure how serious she'd be about a potential R. She is sending me a lot of mixed messages which in and of itself is maddening.

I do know who the AP is. I wonder if his OBS would be willing to reimburse me for some of the PI expense? haha

Ugh...

Faithfulman - I truly appreciate your stark reality!

Yes, I was curious if this movie she wanted to see romanticizes the situation with good ol unrealistic Hollywood treatment. I will be sure to mention the points you made if the film takes that turn.

She hasn't really 'jumped into reconciliation stuff' just yet. She offered to end the A, she offered to disclose (and then failed to do so), she has apologized countless times at this point, expressed a desire to earn forgiveness, got emotional when I doubted her sincerity at the idea of a R.

I don't understand why she is bothering with all of this stuff. When we discuss things this weekend and she gets an idea what kind of transparency and effort will be required to R - we'll see how she reacts....which will tell me all I need to know.

And she has also expressed concern that I will not be able to love or trust her quite the same ever again...that I may try hard only to quit....that I may retaliate....that I may hold it over her head forever, etc.

And...I cant say none of that is possible. I am in uncharted waters!

(thank you for helping provide a map!)

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583577
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notanotherchance ( Member #46677) posted at 10:24 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

And she has also expressed concern that I will not be able to love or trust her quite the same ever again...that I may try hard only to quit....that I may retaliate....that I may hold it over her head forever, etc.

A truly remorseful spouse who realizes exactly what is at stake and will do anything to gain trust would not think about poor little me, her effort would be all in and hope for the gift of R and to rebuild the M. If it doesn't work out then she has no one to blame but herself.

Myself i would just D. If in the future you decide to get back with the person who stabbed you in the back then you can start new albeit with an asterik next to their name.

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 4:27 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

posts: 582   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2015   ·   location: Overseas
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:39 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

It is amazing the regularity with which betrayed husbands come here to tell us of their discovery and then immediately note that their WW's were played by predators and that they as BH's must shoulder the blame for the marriage being on the rocks.

Really amazing how often this happens. And how inaccurate it is.

Also amazing how often a SOP like a VAR is recommended and immediately rejected. VARs are one of the few tools you have to gather the actual truth if you choose to reconcile.

Other things that are likely to be recommended (please don't reject them):

1. A written detailed timeline of the affair from her. Simultaneously, she hands over her phone to you for retrieval of deleted texts and photos with recovery software.

2. A polygraph to test the veracity of the timeline and whether there are other lies.

3. An IMMEDIATE STD panel for you and for her.

4. Expose this to her direct family immediately.

5. Stop waiting for her to tell the AP anything else. NO MORE CONTACT! Regardless of R or D, this should happen if she has ANY remorse at all in her. If not, then the affair continues. Count on it.

6. You tell the OBS immediately. Don't delay another day!

7. Back away from offering reconciliation now. She needs to earn this through consistent actions and demonstrated changes. Don't fall into hysterical bonding with her. This is easier said than done, and I'm one to talk. But I have the benefit of hindsight, and I'm telling you: Don't do it.

8. She reads and implements EVERYTHING in the book "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda McDonald

9. Whatever therapist she's seeing pales in comparison to what I would suggest, which is seeing a betrayal trauma specialist who will hold her feet to the fire. These specialists know exactly how to deal with infidelity. Most other counselors don't and screw up things worse, especially marital counselors (they're the worst).

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583603
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:42 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

You can try hard for years and just decide: "Nope, fuck this."

And listen to this too. There's really no timeline on your pain. I'm approaching the 4-year mark of an attempted reconciliation with my WW and told her 4 weeks ago I want a divorce. I saw an attorney this week to understand my options and demystify the process.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583606
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:46 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

And she has also expressed concern that I will not be able to love or trust her quite the same ever again...that I may try hard only to quit....that I may retaliate....that I may hold it over her head forever, etc.

This is almost exactly what I heard from my WW on D-Day and the weeks after. "I'm afraid you won't be able to get past this." "I should never have admitted it." "Please let's just be kind" (when I hadn't done anything at all, not even raised my voice) "Please stop looking at me that way" (I would look in a nearby mirror and see merely that my face was calm and impassive).

WS's project themselves out, their ugliness and darkness.

Anyway, guess what? Unfortunately she's right that you'll never be able to look at her the same way, love her the same way, or trust her the same way again. That's gone now. That's what she threw away. It is possible, I believe, in some cases to reconcile. I don't want to dissuade you from that if you want to try. Just count the cost and really understand what you're signing up for. It's not ever going to be the same. The shadow will remain.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583608
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:50 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

She has in one sense already done you a favor. If you count the cost and realize that reconciliation simply isn't for you (and it isn't for a lot of people), she's already started the ball rolling on D. You can just move forward with what she already kickstarted.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583610
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:53 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

oldtruck - I need to find a way to contact the OBS or even knew who she was.

I would disclose if I knew I had solid contact info. There is no way the AP is going to get out of this drama free! Hell NO!

There's an easy way to get this information:

"Wife, tell me the OM's name and contact information right fucking now or we are done."

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583613
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 11:00 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Very solid gameplan Thumos. That's a heck of list you got there. I am not sure if I can do all that....

I feel so exhausted today. At this stage...after everything I did to provide for this house, and when things got rocky, to change things around...I don't know how much more I have to give.

Regardless of everything - its labor day weekend. We got 3 days in a row together for better or worse.

I have never been in this type of situation before & I am so glad to have found this resource to help me better prepared to identify fact from fiction

For me....the cost of a potential R. The stability of critical stages in life for 7 children. 6 from prior relationships do not have the greatest of situations at the other homes. WE were supposed to be the stable house - I busted my ass to provide a large enough home in the best schooling district for these kids because otherwise they would never have the opportunity - never

I know - "you don't do it for the kids". But...7 of them?!? Its a blended family yes - but they all met very young, always got along, and have tight sibling bonds/attachments with one another. Genuine love and and enjoyment of one another! Mom - come home and join the party! WTF??

I have worked from home full time for over 10 years - for better or worse, I am the primary caretaker for ALL of them! I never thought I'd be Mr.Mom & primary breadwinner...stay home dad for 7 kids - but it happened - and its never easy, but its wonderful - or at least it was - and I feel a tremendous sense of obligation to fight for them to the last minute...to the last drop of blood I have to give them.

And when the whistle blows (either way) - I'll retire to the locker room proud of my effort and ready to win again.

Sorry for the rant - but it was good to vent

[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 5:29 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583617
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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 11:14 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Brother, it sucks. You have to be very careful and resolute, particularly in the early stages, and with this long weekend, all kinds of tactics will likely be thrown at you.

Thumos mentioned one that I forgot: "Hysterical Bonding" AKA "Pussy Bombing" which in turn lulls you into the "Pussy Coma".

(Thumos is too nice and refined of a fellow to say it like I do.)

Cheaters all seem to follow the same uncanny script. For female cheaters, the pussy bomb is like an instinctual reaction to shut down the anger of the betrayed husband - and it really seems to work, at least in the short term.

Smartest (And probably the hardest)thing you can do is take sex off the table. Sleep in different rooms.

As for that movie, read about or preview it yourself. Then TELL HER you will or won't watch it. (By the way , I say don't watch it, what the fuck does a movie have to do with anything?)

Don't get sucked into any bullshit. You need to drive the agenda of what you will do and accept.

Your wife? Some people disagree with what my philosophy is: She needs to do what you tell her to do, plus she needs to simply do the right things. (Others say she needs to figure out "what to do" all by herself)

These are simple, common sense behaviors and actions, that you should not have to tell her, but for cheaters, these seem to be like learning an alien language.

Good luck brother, come back and ask for any help you need to parry the array of tactics which are sure to come your way.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 5:15 PM, September 4th (Friday)]

posts: 872   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2018
id 8583623
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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 11:22 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Ditto on the p-bombing

I know you’re exhausted. It’s an exhaustion you’ve likely never felt. We all know what it feels like and we feel that pain and bone weariness with you. I’m very sorry.

This weekend is the perfect time for her to begin writing down the timeline and to hand over her phone. those are easy things she can do right now. She can devote a fraction of time to writing down a timeline for you as she did to the MONTHS of deception and lies and sex.

And it should be DETAILED. Don’t forget that part. No one page bullshit.

She can also download How to Help Your Spouse as a kindle book in a matter of seconds from Amazon and start reading it and take notes. It’s a very short quick book that outlines a very effective plan.

You could also go to Bestbuy this weekend and procure a few VARs. We can help with the details. Whatever the latest $50-60 range Sony model is what you want, with some cheap ear plugs you can clip off to plug them in to prevent audible playback on accident.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

posts: 4214   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8583626
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 UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 11:24 PM on Friday, September 4th, 2020

Oh no...there will be no sex at all. I don't think anything is more emasculating and ED inducing than this.

She hasn't had an STD check - the fact she even needs one....argh

posts: 39   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2020
id 8583628
Topic is Sleeping.
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