Topic is Sleeping.
UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 9:34 PM on Tuesday, September 8th, 2020
SRC: I am so sorry to hear your story and the suggestion to look for long term R stories is a great idea - thank you!
I am not sure her change of direction is quite so complete. But her going through any of the steps of a remorseful spouse after insisting she wanted a D for the better part of this summer is confusing for me as well.
I can flatter myself and think its a combo of realizing I am a better man than she gave me credit for, that the AP was unlikely to make a meaningful contribution to the children's lives, and a desire to reclaim her (formerly) solid moral compass that she can no longer claim a right to.
she is just trying to keep me soft and confused on her way out. Avoid headaches...whatever
I fully understand how a majority on this site would suggest the latter as more likely. Believe me, I think about it too.
I guess I can never say that I know her as well as I thought I did. But I do know her better than pretty much anyone alive (and vice versa) and....well damn, I have reason to be confused.
I think you are right - I think she did this as an exit A to force a point of no return. But I also think there may have been a 'what have I done?' moment mixed in there somewhere. Or maybe not?
Or maybe it wont matter in the long run because I don't know if I can do this forever and I know my value to this world
I have an IC session in about an hour! Thanks for the encouragement!
ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 9:48 PM on Tuesday, September 8th, 2020
More often than not, the WS and AP talk about D, being together and ♥ live happily ever after ♥ ™ without going through with it.
Usually the change of mind comes when the A is exposed and the Wayward come back to the ugly reality.
It’s a bit more rare that the WS files then wakes up to the reality...
Sometimes the change of mind is because the AP dumps the WS.
Before considering R, you should try to get a complete picture of what happened.
Have you talked with a lawyer yet?
[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:55 PM, September 8th (Tuesday)]
I plan on living forever. So far so good
UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 10:12 PM on Tuesday, September 8th, 2020
Earlier in the thread, when my wife told AP they'd been discovered on D-day his (alleged) immediate reaction was to wash his hands of it and said they were done. She (allegedly) was upset and disappointed he cut and run at the 1st sign of drama.
The next morning he (allegedly) went into damage control apologizing and she (allegedly) broke it off with him as she said she would during the D-day confrontation.
He (allegedly) tried to contact her via text one more time, she did not reply and he has not been in contact since. Phone records support this claim...for what that's worth
I imagine this (if true) plays a role in her (apparently) going through some of the steps of a remorseful spouse.
But she also claims its the way I have handled myself along with a sense of personal disappointment that has got her 'confused' herself
Also earlier in the thread - I discovered that email was a major form of communication for them and unfortunately got plenty of detail from 1st message on. Between that and the way my wife has answered my questions (very frank at times, ugly to hear but at least I think she isn't sugar coating)...I think I have an idea of what happened.
I think the chance they take it deeper underground is 'possible' rather than 'likely' but who knows. If we decide to file a conciliation request and put a stay on the divorce proceedings I will take R to the SI word - VAR in the car and all that jazz
No, I haven't contacted a lawyer (yet) and she filed solo. (she cant afford one and the AP doesn't seem the type to bail her out - maybe the fun and games isn't worth quite all that?)
[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 4:31 PM, September 8th (Tuesday)]
ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 10:48 PM on Tuesday, September 8th, 2020
So a very common scenario is that the WH is in the A for the sex and the WW is in for the compliments, ego boost etc... Upon discovery, the WH dumps the AP (your WW) like a bag of potatoes and the WW Is shocked, shocked that her “true love” dumped her like that.
The thing is... for R, your WW will have to fix whatever is broken in her that allowed this to happen. You need to be convinced that this will never happen again, otherwise why bother?
For R, you’ll need a list of requirements for this to be possible, starting with thumos’ list. What is your list of requirements for you to consider R?
Why don’t you ask her what are her feelings towards the OM?
Also, when you inform the OBS, her reaction will be very telling.
One day at a time...
[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 4:49 PM, September 8th (Tuesday)]
I plan on living forever. So far so good
UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 7:49 PM on Wednesday, September 9th, 2020
SH: The emails I saw from inception through D-day had a lot of detail to be upset about and its tough not to dwell on. But it did seem light on the romance. Like you said, the AP seemed to be in it for a good time and my WW for the attention/validation/distraction.
My wife has been frank in her answers to my questions. Its been tough to hear, but at least I don't think she is sugar-coating things. When I asked her how she felt about AP, if she loved him. She said she was 'beginning to have feelings' but did not love him and maintains things weren't nearly as serious as I feared.
I know..."Don't rely on a known liar to tell you the truth" Its challenging for me.
She is attending IC to help address some underlying issues that contributed to an unhappy marriage prior to the A. She had her 1st session last week, said she loved her therapist and looking forward to continuing.
I also have been attending IC and had a session last night. My therapist has also met my wife so she has a background on us and is aware of the A. Therapist is pleased I found this website and encourages my participation here. But when I expressed concern about some of the 'investigation' tips that many SI members encourage during a R, she had the following to say:
"You cant control people. If she is going to cheat, she is going to find a way to do it. You cant stop that. But eventually these things come to light just like it already did. Cross that bridge if you get there.
Its true that she needs to re-earn your trust. But if you feel you need to reduce yourself to 'crazy' in the meantime just so that you can feel you can trust her again - you probably shouldn't stay in the relationship."
And I agree with her. I'd rather be divorced than a paranoid BS constantly worried about where my wife is, who she is with, acting sneaky and spying on her, etc. I don't think I can live that way. Gives me more food for thought.
As to terms of a potential R - I essentially cut/paste much of it from the R articles on this website so it should be familiar to any of the regulars here.
After the 3 day weekend we had and the IC session last night, I wanted to take a break from the emo stuff and avoided any heavy discussion.
Had some QT with the kids. Interactions with my wife continue the slow/steady improvement since D-day. Playful banter and affection are beginning to appear again. The smile on one of the kid's face when they saw that told me that I am fighting the good fight.
....one day at a time
Thank you all so much!
faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 9:46 PM on Wednesday, September 9th, 2020
Good luck to you, I hope you find happiness.
Your therapist is just wrong unless she was advising you to get out of the relationship.
Knowledge is power and simply trusting your wife is just leaving you at her mercy, and that is what you did already.
The majority of therapists really don't know shit about cheating, they repeat conventional platitudes that don't really help you move in a positive direction.
Things may come to light, they may not, it may come to light in 20 years leaving you broken and distraught.
Maybe nothing is happening but you are still wracked by doubt and suspicion.
I don't encourage spying just during reconciliation but as soon as possible.
If you just "don't want to know", that is certainly a valid choice but it may eat at you.
Constant doubt sucks
what cheating does to you sucks
It all sucks.
But, if you feel like you can move forward, then I admire you and I wish you good luck.
src9043 ( Member #75367) posted at 10:22 PM on Wednesday, September 9th, 2020
I reread your opening statement. You state that you have been married four years to this person and the seven children are your stepchildren. If this is correct, you really don't have a ton invested in this marriage at this point. It's amazing she found a husband to take on seven children. She should have kissed your feet every night for that yet she filed for divorce and had an affair. I quit reading most of the posts and just wanted to jump in for a reality check. I would strongly consider divorce at this point if I were you. I am sure there is much more to your relationship, financial situation and other factors that you have not mentioned. That might way on my decision to stay. But, unless you can handle living with the affair for the rest of your life, why bother putting yourself through the trauma of always being suspicious of her actions. You just don't have that much invested. It hurts, but the hurt is mild compared to a lifetime of possible deceit and worry. I wish you the best, don't be a chump like I was.
ShutterHappy ( Member #64318) posted at 10:43 PM on Wednesday, September 9th, 2020
Have you contacted the OBS yet?
As for your WW feelings of being played, it does happen quite often BUT...
Imagine you WW takes $50000 from your retirement account to buy a new car to an old HS friend without telling you. She figures you’ll never notice so no harm done. Then it turns out her friend kept the money for herself, her friend played your WW.
Whether your WW was scammed or not, she took the money either way.
Imagine that the AP is single and was genuinely in love with your WW. It doesn’t make it “better”.
Your WW introduced a 3rd party in your marriage for her own selfish reasons, without caring how much this would hurt you and your children.
Maybe the AP is a player. But there are tons of players looking for married women out there. Your WW A might be over, but what about the next player that comes around? What if she meets a non-player genuinely in love with her? What then?
Your WW will need to convince you that she fixed whatever is broken in her and will become a safe partner.
She said she was developing feelings for the AP. She was probably in love with him and was ready to divorce you to be with him.
What are her feelings now? Hopefully she’s disgusted by him.
When your marriage was not great, you did some introspection and improved yourself. Your WW’s reaction? She has an A and the hell with everybody else.
Do you have a list of requirements that has to be met before you consider R?
I plan on living forever. So far so good
UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 11:39 PM on Wednesday, September 9th, 2020
Hey there faithfulman,
I fully understand why many of you recommend spying. However, if we are going to move forward it will be without bitterness or paranoia complicating matters. And while that concept may be difficult to understand by some, or viewed as naïve by others - I simply do not feel it would serve me well. I need to live true to my personal principals and convictions 1st and foremost.
Certainly will have my eyes wider open, and if she burns me again...shame on me. I will launch without hesitation learning my lesson that no one on this green Earth deserves a 2nd chance in life. And that would be truly unfortunate conclusion to arrive at. But it would be her loss!
If I don't think I can move forward without the bitterness and paranoia haunting my every day and find myself debating my own principals...then that's that, I wont proceed. And its still her loss!
But - pro or con - as much as it hurts, I refuse to allow this incident to scar me for life. I refuse to carry this burden any farther than I must. I will take a deep dive on the matter and spend the time and diligence to process it to the best of my ability - and once I am done with that and find my closure (pro or con), I will put it behind me where it belongs and move forward to a happy life with or without her.
UnhappyDaddy (original poster New Member #75323) posted at 12:07 AM on Thursday, September 10th, 2020
SRC - no, not 7 stepchildren lol. 2 are mine from prior relationship and one we had together.
I am invested into this relationship to enough degree that I will not make a hasty decision either way.
SH: No I haven't contacted the OBS yet. I know who the AP is, but I still need to locate OBS. I don't think they are married so its an OSO (significant other).
Yes, you are right - I was working on the marriage and she went out of her way to kill it. I harbor a lot of anger about that and she has expressed embarrassment and apologized that she didn't respond to our problems in a more enlightened and dignified manner like I had. (not saying I am a perfect person, but we are both kinda shocked at how well I have handled myself during this trial. Its nice to be working from the high ground!)
But the idea my wife is an easy target for any player to come along....I am not quite so certain about that. At the very least, I wont be tripping out over it.
I am not sure either of us is in any position to speak with authority on her emotional state....if she was in love with AP or not. But she does claim to be disgusted with both him as well as herself.
To consider the R? Yes, she must renounce the A and seek counseling to address her contributions to a failing marriage. She has (allegedly) moved on from the A, seems to be focusing back on our household - and has attended her 1st IC session. So those boxes have been checked.
I still have just over a week before I must file a response to the courts. I have two of them ready to go;
1.) To seek conciliation services and pause the proceedings.
2.) Agree that marriage is not repairable and move forward with divorce.
Not sure which one I will submit just yet.
But every day since D-day has been better than the one before it. If that continues, I will likely go with option 1. Which in our state only buys 60 business days more time to see how realistic an R attempt might be.
I see another thread here where a BS is still chasing after an unrepentant WW who joyously rub her A in his face. Fortunately that is not quite my situation. I have a WW who seems to be coming out of the fog and behaving like a remorseful spouse.
This board is naturally skeptical which I can appreciate to help me keep grounded and thinking.
[This message edited by UnhappyDaddy at 6:29 PM, September 9th (Wednesday)]
src9043 ( Member #75367) posted at 1:07 AM on Thursday, September 10th, 2020
The child situation does complicate matters. I wish you good luck whatever you decide.
oldtruck ( Member #62540) posted at 2:19 AM on Thursday, September 10th, 2020
UD, it is not about spying, it is about verifying that there is
NC between your WW and her OM.
this is the building block for repairing the broken trust.
Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 2:23 AM on Thursday, September 10th, 2020
You haven't been married that long, it's "easier" to cut your losses now and protect yourself, so my suggestion is to D but if you think R is a possibility and you want to explore it, If I was you I would still D and demote her to live in girlfriend and keep finances separate or FWB if you want to live in a separate house, but you don't necessarily have to stay married or have to re-marry to R, this is just another option that would protect you at least financially going forward and if things don't work out, "easier" to part ways at that point.
After THOUSANDS of cases, the collective wisdom of SI has stood the test of time, be cautious an consider it every step of the way, eyes wide open going forward, you don't want to waste a decade (or even longer) to find out you were being cheated all along, she's now a proven cheater and a liar and there's no magic formula to get past this quickly, it takes years of painful and hard effort to R (with no guarantees), yes we've "seen it" happened before here on SI and in other forums before.
Buffer ( Member #71664) posted at 3:17 AM on Thursday, September 10th, 2020
Sounds like you are in a good head space. Keep looking after #1 that being you and the children.
You made a very good analogy of the feelings like a lava lamp. But keep that anger demon in it's box.
I always say take your time about D or R. Presently D is going ahead, you need to sign and counter her proposal with a document sighted by a lawyer.
Please don't be her plan B.
She wanted out, had you served. If the AP won't leave his partner then she will be a single mother with five children on a rotational bases between two fathers. Not shaming or anything but she won't be much of a catch. She may be a great person, but I believe she isn’t a good wife or mother. She had options but chose the selfish ones.
One day at a time.
[This message edited by Buffer at 2:54 AM, September 10th (Thursday)]
Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 6:26 AM on Thursday, September 24th, 2020
As is true of domestic violence (and adultery is a form of domestic violence) it’s not a bad relationship that causes adultery. It’s adultery that causes bad relationships. We wouldn’t say that half of all marriages are bad, yet our divorce rate is 50 percent. I don’t think you should take the burden of the marriage before adultery on your shoulders. Truthfully after adultery the rose colored glasses come off and an adulterer’s flaws are thrown into sharper relief.
So those boxes have been checked.
As time goes by you will see that this is a nonlinear process and checking boxes is a less useful paradigm for how to measure progress.
waiting around for a WW to “get it” in drips and drabs is a form of puffing away at the hopium pipe. If shouldn’t take a moderately intelligent person that long. If it does, patience is certainly not required. The fog is a fictional concept.
Your WW A might be over, but what about the next player that comes around? What if she meets a non-player genuinely in love with her? What then?
I do think the domestic violence lens is a good way to view this. If an abusive husband hasn’t genuinely confronted and rooted out what allowed him to punch his wife in the face, it’s likely he will do it again no matter how “sorry” he may feel. Same here. If your WW hasn’t figured out why she needs her holes filled (pun intended) by third parties, she’s likely to seek out this false affirmation again.
[This message edited by Thumos at 12:35 AM, September 24th (Thursday)]
"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."
BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20
Topic is Sleeping.