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Newest Member: formerlywayward

General :
Esther Perel

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 Dontwanttogiveup (original poster member #60432) posted at 2:06 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

My WH has been watching her talks. What do you all think of her?

Me-BS/WS 49
Him-WH 49
LTA for 1 year, 3 other women before that but not LT
Dday-Aug 21st 2017
M 15 years
3 children together 15,12,11

posts: 61   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2017   ·   location: Indiana
id 7985973
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deephurt ( member #48243) posted at 2:13 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

I have listened to a few podcasts. I am not a fan. She romanticizes affairs and provides semi excusable behaviour to the wayward.

me-BW
him-WH


so far successfully in R

posts: 3775   ·   registered: Jun. 13th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 7985978
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Northerngal ( member #45481) posted at 2:15 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

Not a huge fan. I'm in the Sue Johnson school of EFT, which talks about the importance of connection, and I think Perel contradicts that. Deceit is not connecting.

I also think her credentials are wonky and if she looked like a shriveled up old thing instead of a sophisticated euro with an accent she wouldn't get the press or attention. She's like the Ann Coulter of affairs.

Just my opinion.

posts: 748   ·   registered: Nov. 3rd, 2014
id 7985981
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woundedbear ( member #52257) posted at 2:31 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

I think it is important to look at her from her approach. She seems to be focused on attraction, so she looks at affairs from the standpoint of why they are attractive. What needs and wants fueled them. It makes EP look like she in in favor of affairs because she explains why they are attractive.

When you are a BS who is hurt, that may be all you hear (why it was attractive), but when you listen closer, she is clear that affairs are destructive and traumatic, and that there are better ways of meeting those "needs" within the marriage and in other ways that do not include affairs.

I know there are people who despise her because she does not look at the affair as a binary proposition of right and wrong. Instead her approach is why was it attractive. If they were not so attractive, none of us would be here. So by looking at the whys, many of us BS think, "why are you not condemning affairs?" She does, but not in a way where we feel vindicated.

Others think she is giving the betrayer a pass, my fWW would tell you quite the opposite. Her experience watching her talks and reading laid her bare...all the justifications pointed back to fWW, and her poor coping skills with getting older, dealing with everyday disappointments and being a mature person, and pointed at her trying to escape and be a 20 year old again. In the end, she saw the A as humiliating and shameful.

Like with anything here on SI or that you read about infidelity, you should take what you need and leave the rest. I don't agree with all she has to say, but some of it is spot on, and from a different approach than most who work with infidelity, so it makes her stuff worthwhile for me.

Me BS (58) FWW (58) DDay 3/10/2015 Married 36 years, together 40 2 kids, both grown.

posts: 286   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 7985992
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 2:54 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

She talks like a WS. She's a fool.

Me: FBSHim: FWSKids: 23 & 27 Married for 32 years now, was 16 at the time.D-Day Sept 26 2008R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 20399   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 7986013
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 Dontwanttogiveup (original poster member #60432) posted at 3:16 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

Woundedbear

I agree with what you are saying. My WH says listening to her has helped him tremendously. More than any therapist. He needs to understand the WHY of the A. He told me this morning he needs to focus on me. It is hard to hear some of what she says as the BS but she also talkes about how destructive and hurtful the A is. If it helps him and our marriage then I am all for it.

Me-BS/WS 49
Him-WH 49
LTA for 1 year, 3 other women before that but not LT
Dday-Aug 21st 2017
M 15 years
3 children together 15,12,11

posts: 61   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2017   ·   location: Indiana
id 7986036
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 Dontwanttogiveup (original poster member #60432) posted at 3:37 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

Woundedbear

I agree with what you are saying. My WH says listening to her has helped him tremendously. More than any therapist. He needs to understand the WHY of the A. He told me this morning he needs to focus on me. It is hard to hear some of what she says as the BS but she also talkes about how destructive and hurtful the A is. If it helps him and our marriage then I am all for it.

Me-BS/WS 49
Him-WH 49
LTA for 1 year, 3 other women before that but not LT
Dday-Aug 21st 2017
M 15 years
3 children together 15,12,11

posts: 61   ·   registered: Aug. 31st, 2017   ·   location: Indiana
id 7986070
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Hephaestus2 ( member #60769) posted at 9:38 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

Esther Perel makes many interesting points about relationships and about infidelity. She is more intelligent, knowledgeable, insightful, and perceptive than many of the authors who claim to be "relationship experts".

Some of the criticisms of Perel's articles are unwarranted. On survivinginfidelity.com and on other webistes, Perel is criticized for "justifiying affairs", which is not accurate. This criticism probably arises because Perel is focused on trying to understand why people have affairs. For some people, particularly betrayed spouses who have recently discovered their partners affairs, any attempt to understand the perspective of an unfaithful partner is regarded with suspicion or outright hostility. Understandably, explaining infidelity feels like yet another betrayal. For some people, it won't matter how many times Perel writes that as a marital therapist she has witnessed the devastation caused by infidelity in hundreds of couples. As Perel points out repeatedly, there is a big difference between trying to understand why people have affairs and justifying them.

Some of the criticism of Perel's recent article about why people have affairs (in The Atlantic, October 2017) has a political dimension. Some people regard Perel's attempts to understand infidelity as a sign that she is yet another intellectual, wishy washy liberal. Any attempt to understand the motives of philanderers, serial killers, or scofflaws is in fact coddling evildoers. The only appropriate response to criminal behavior is condemnation. Similarly, the only appropriate response to infidelity is to attribute it to the sins of selfishness, immaturity, and dishonesty.

Perel anticipates many of the criticisms of her refusal to condemn affairs or the unfaithful. She knows that she will be labelled amoral or pro-affair. She knows that some people will assume that she approves of deception or betrayal.

Perel is no fool. She does not subscribe to the theory that an affair is always a symptom of a symptom of a bad marrage. She understands the impact of infidelity all too well. She knows that when it comes to affairs "few events in the life of a couple, except illness and death, carry such devastating force". She knows that "the maelstrom of emotions unleashed in the wake of an affair can be so overwhelming that many psychologists turn to the field of trauma to explain the symptoms: obsessive rumination, hypervigilance, numbness and dissociation, inexplicable rages, uncontrollable panic." She understands that forbidden love is utopian and that relationships that begin as extramarital affairs are very unlikely to endure. She knows what divorce attorneys know: "infidelity has become one of the prime motives for divorce in the West".

I do have some questions for Perel. For example, why is Perel so interested in "meaning"? Why is she so interested in "the meaning of affairs"? Why is it so important to understand "the meaning of the affair" for the unfaithful partner? Why does Perel believe that affairs often reflect a "crisis of meaning", a "crisis of identity", or an "existential crisis" in the life of the unfaithful partner? As the daughter of two holocaust survivors, it seems likely that she has read Viktor Frankl. Does her perspective arise out of existential psychotherapy or humanist psychology? What evidence does she have that infidelity is often the consequence of an "existential crisis"? How do other "relationship experts" view her ideas about relationships and infidelity? Are her ideas supported by academic psychologists? Is there any research that supports her ideas?

posts: 291   ·   registered: Sep. 25th, 2017   ·   location: Texas
id 7986418
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 9:49 PM on Friday, September 29th, 2017

Not a fan.

BH(me)72(now); XWW 64; M 42 yrsDDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW 4 years; "dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, liesSeparated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4720   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 7986422
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