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Just Found Out :
Wife had affair with best friend

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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 2:12 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

bry...

Have you read the "healing library"??

Is your wife still in any contact with her BF? (be careful - alot of affairs will go underground at this point).

Has an NC letter been written and sent??

Bufffalo

[This message edited by bufffalo at 10:18 AM, September 25th (Tuesday)]

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
id 6002486
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 brybry75 (original poster new member #36686) posted at 2:39 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

Had to remove some of the detail I put in my story - figured it identifies me a little too much.

Let me say I appreciate ALL the support being offered here. It is good to feel that I can share my experience among peers.

To answer some questions:

Brandon808 - laws work a little different here. D would be a 50/50 split. Plus I don't think I want this.

Can't comment on what WW said - it is what it is...

gonnabe - WW cried when I saw her. I know it doesn't make any difference. Shows some emotion at least (guilt)?

She certainly feels that now.

To answwer your questions...I still love her despite all of this. We are in MC and doing our own IC (I will go into details later) but I find it hard to accept what I have read here and elsewhere - that WW is 100% responsible for her decision...but why make that choice? There were so many other options...for example, just talking to me...

doctor49 - I want my futere to include her. But WW is in a fog where she has suppressed her feelings for me to do what she has done. Will they come back? There are glimpses of it.

Lonelyhusband - MC'or, highly regarded in her field (best we could find), has told me I need to let this go and focus on us reconnecting. There is some remorse though as it comes in waves. I dont want or expect WW to be paralysed by it, just some consistency.

lordhasaplan? - I am sure that there is NC at the moment. He dropped her like a hot potato. The GF is an issue that my WW wont budge on - she is one of the only friends that has stuck by her through this. Dont know what to do here...

lonelyhusband, happyman64 OM is a douche...havent seen him and will not. In fact he has cut all ties with joint friends. Which is fine by me. I feel like such a chump as I trusted the two of them.

I've had thoughts of revenge - I think I could actually get him fired from his job. But what would that serve? Doesnt change what happened? I would just end up hurting his wife and family - there's already been enough pain...

posts: 40   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2012   ·   location: Australia
id 6002531
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doctor49 ( member #15847) posted at 4:34 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

You're the one best able to determine the basis of your future relationship. That said there are some hard issues for you to decide. There are some boundary/breaker issues you will need to decide.

Perhaps the most important is what you need for you. What you need to see and hear, when. Because as I read things you're asking yourself to have considerable faith at this point.

But WW is in a fog where she has suppressed her feelings for me to do what she has done. Will they come back? There are glimpses of it.

They might. Or not. Decide what you need to see and be able to believe. When.

I find it hard to accept what I have read here and elsewhere - that WW is 100% responsible for her decision...but why make that choice? There were so many other options...for example, just talking to me...

You're looking for a rational explanation that may not exist. It's important though to give you some sense of the possible future.

MC'or, highly regarded in her field (best we could find), has told me I need to let this go and focus on us reconnecting.

This is a big ask. And to be honest I don't understand how you can reconnect without some understanding and resolution of the issues that led to the A.

The GF is an issue that my WW wont budge on - she is one of the only friends that has stuck by her through this. Dont know what to do here...

I guess the question for your WW is 'who is more important?' you or her GF.

I'm sorry I haven't answered your questions.........and have asked some more.

posts: 244   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2007
id 6002676
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bufffalo ( member #21854) posted at 4:52 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

but I find it hard to accept what I have read here and elsewhere - that WW is 100% responsible for her decision...but why make that choice?

Dude...you could have been the H from hell...still doesnt warrant getting cheated on....

but why make that choice?

Bry...i dont think this was an "exit affair"....this is what i call a "shits and giggles affair"....she made that choice because it stroked her little ego....the affair made her feel good, she got a "high" from cheating...much like a junkie on crack.

Much like drinking, drugging, spending money, or even jumping out of a good airplane - she got a "rush" from it...affairs are new, forbidden, exciting...and they are bullshit...chemicals that make her feel good are released into the brain...a "high"...followed by a period of depression or sadness.....my FWW had this type of affair...and it stroked her ego, too... I hope in her IC she addresses the reasons why she felt the need to cheat on you in the first place...this is SO important - the reason WHY needs to be addressed.

I know that my FWWs need to cheat had nothing to do with me....i was nothing more than "collateral damage"...a victim..it was NOT about me at all...and i knew it.

Discounting exit affairs (and yours does not appear to be one of these) people like the attention...the "buzz" they get from the AP (affair partner)...

Your wife may even think that they were in love, soulmates, "he understands me" etc, etc....more bullshit. Of course she'll feel that way....its her way of justifying her behavior....they never want to realize that they were nothing more than a "notch" on the OMs belt.

One thing you have done that will speed up the exiting of your wife from this fog induced thinking, is that her OM kicked her to the curb right after his wife found out of the affair....if they were truely soulmates - she'd have filed for divorce and never looked back. Most affairs will die upon exposure....like mushrooms, they die in the sunlight with the removal of the bullshit that they feed upon.....

She will attempt to blame you for her behavior - we call this "blameshifting"....yes, until she accepts this affair as her fault - she will blame you....the WSs will even rewrite the maritial history to make it easier for them to accept what they have done to you, themselves and their marriage.

In 25 words or less..."this is NOT your fault".

Keep us posted....

Bufffalo

DDay 9/25/2008

BH-me

posts: 6172   ·   registered: Dec. 1st, 2008   ·   location: Texas
id 6002699
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nuance ( member #28793) posted at 4:54 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

Her GF gotta go...

Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

posts: 1381   ·   registered: Jun. 14th, 2010   ·   location: California
id 6002702
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joe blow ( member #17349) posted at 5:12 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

You might want to consider getting a second opinion from a different marriage counselor. That kind of advice is completely unrealistic for your timeframe. Even if the counselor is the best in the field, he might not be the best for your marriage.

posts: 62   ·   registered: Dec. 10th, 2007
id 6002725
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 brybry75 (original poster new member #36686) posted at 6:06 AM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

Much like drinking, drugging, spending money, or even jumping out of a good airplane -she got a "rush" from it...affairs are new, forbidden, exciting...and they are bullshit...chemicals that make her feel good are released into the brain...a "high"...followed by a period of depression or sadness.....my FWW had this type of affair...and it stroked her ego, too... I hope in her IC she addresses the reasons why she felt the need to cheat on you in the first place...this is SO important - the reason WHY needs to be addressed.

WW is doing her own counselling (as am I) and this is the crux of the sessions - but this is also where I have an issue. Her counsellor wants the best for her (which I do) but it may not be me...so am I supposed to wait around for this? I originally put a timeline on this but have been advised by the MC that this is unrealistic as I am looking for a feeling (WW is in love with me) as opposed to behaviour (committing to MC and working on our marriage - which she has agreed). I feel I have already had given up so much ground that why should I change this deadline...but I also want to give us a chance...

Other question - the high comes after - so WW made that decision "not affected"...no excuse, right? Man that hurts.

Your wife may even think that they were in love, soulmates, "he understands me" etc, etc....more bullshit. Of course she'll feel that way....it’s her way of justifying her behaviour....they never want to realize that they were nothing more than a "notch" on the OMs belt.

One thing you have done that will speed up the exiting of your wife from this fog induced thinking, is that her OM kicked her to the curb right after his wife found out of the affair....if they were truly soulmates - she'd have filed for divorce and never looked back. Most affairs will die upon exposure....like mushrooms, they die in the sunlight with the removal of the bullshit that they feed upon.....

Exactly what has happened...pretty hard to take when I never stopped caring for her.

So what happens now...? Say we work things out but I just have to accept what's happened...I know that is also what I have been told at MC. I know there is no way to undo what's been done and I don't want to punish her (what would suffice). But there are no repercussions? And if so what would stop her from doing it again? Her "love" for me didn't...

posts: 40   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2012   ·   location: Australia
id 6002769
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PhoenixReborn ( member #22135) posted at 1:59 PM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

Hello

If you decide to R, I recommend that you make sure she is std free and not pregnant to OM before committing to R.

Also, given she did sexual things with OM that she never did with you, is she willing to do all those things with you? (especially if she denied it with you in the past)

IMO there can never be secrets or sexual things the WS has done with OM that is not done with BS in R.

That could lead to resentment and is grossly unfair and cruel.

PR

Me - XBF 40 (Fiance)
Her - XWF (who cares)
# Always trust your Gut - I didn't and am now regretting it. #
-Only give up when you won't regret giving up.-

posts: 1125   ·   registered: Dec. 22nd, 2008   ·   location: Australia
id 6002989
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lordhasaplan? ( member #30079) posted at 2:13 PM on Tuesday, September 4th, 2012

lordhasaplan? - I am sure that there is NC at the moment. He dropped her like a hot potato. The GF is an issue that my WW wont budge on - she is one of the only friends that has stuck by her through this. Dont know what to do here...

Its up to you. The point is, what will you stand for? I know it was difficult in the wake of the affair for me. But at 3 months out, I just made my demands. Told her this is the way my marriage is going to be with or without her. She stumbled once, 2 weeks later. I packed her shit and sent her packing. Within 24 hours I had a snot bubble out the nose, Mascara runnin’, I am such a fool, at my door. With a 10 page written document about everything that happened in her affair and a written agreement to meet all my expectations in a marriage. That was 2 + years ago. She has wavered since. You see you get to set the ground rules on how you will be treated, what you will accept. I know it’s hard. I am bumping a boundaries thread I wrote some time ago. Take a peek it has alot of great info in it.

Draw a line in the sand. She doesn’t get to choose, you do. You lay your demands on the table and let her meet them. If she doesn’t , send her packing..... Sometimes it’s the one thing that pulls their head out of the sand, when they realize they can’t manage this process, they are not in control, and you don’t need them.

LHAP?

BS- Me (45)
D-day: 5/18/10, lies and TT till (11/26/10).
Currently in R.
Don't carry others crap. It's your job to fix yourself, not your spouse.

posts: 2106   ·   registered: Nov. 10th, 2010
id 6003004
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 brybry75 (original poster new member #36686) posted at 9:28 AM on Wednesday, September 5th, 2012

For all those that have suggested I check the "Healing Library" - thank you! It is a great resource.

WW has been fully "checked over" for diseases...what a statement to have to type about someone you have loved for 22 years...

We have anniversary dates coming up late this year - (we...well at least I used to) celebrate wedding Ann as well as the day we met. I feel that neither of these are worth anything anymore. Especially when AP was "met" the day after one...no respect at all.

I have mentioned this to WW and she wants to celebrate - not to let the AP take this away from us...and from her!

Your the one that took it away...from us and me...

(Sorry - just venting)

posts: 40   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2012   ·   location: Australia
id 6004554
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m334455 ( member #26893) posted at 10:55 AM on Wednesday, September 5th, 2012

Actions brybry. It's weird, you just don't know which ones are going to make an impression.

One day, maybe 6 or 7 months after Dday my WH came home in a super-pissy mood and was snapping at me and the kids; I told him that whatever had his panties in a bunch we weren't his punching bags and we'd had a nice day and didn't need it ruined by his crap. I put the babies in the stroller and shoes on the big kids and said we were going to the park and then for ice cream and I stayed at the park with them until it was dark and THEN took them for ice cream ...

There's a point -- it made a HUGE impression on him. He was still upset when we got back and said "I can see you're just going to do whatever you want" and I told him "We can all do whatever we want. Your children and I are going to have a happy, peaceful, pleasant, loving and fun life. We would like for you to be part of it, but if you choose not to, we're going to be loving and happy and peaceful and pleasant and fun anyway."

I don't know why that got through to him when lists of demands, etc. did not. But it did. We went through a lot of boundary battles before that, but that's when it started to really sink in.

So, actions. Don't just say, I want X, Y, Z, do something different too.

BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

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id 6004571
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standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 2:22 AM on Thursday, September 6th, 2012

You are getting a lot of good advice, but you are real new to this discovery.

Get yourself a notebook, don't let your wife have access to it, and journal your questions, your issues, your anger, etc, etc.

Come to this site to get feedback on emotions, reactions, issues that arise.

Take information from both to use in MC or your own IC.

The first few months are a filtering and sifting process as you get lied to and told the truth, in varying rations of shit that you have to swallow in one form or another.

However, there is one thing for sure. Your wife is more fucked up than you realize and your friend was never your friend and the GF was never your friend either. Does this make them evil? No, but it certainly makes them people you can't ever trust around you or your family again.

One more thing, the sex issue, well it may be hard to deal with but sex that they had (things that they did that you and she never did) may reflect a history of sex abuse. She may have been ashamed to do them with you and in your presence as a "faithful husband" but in the affair the whole thing is shameful and "nasty" or "dirty" in the mind of the WS. Yet, the affair is the most "dirty" terrible boundary to cross, having crossed that boundary everything else seems less shameful and "nasty" or "dirty" and people will literally do almost anything the OM or OW wants.

Yeah, it's a fucked up way of thinking about sex, but people who have affairs aren't using reality based thinking when it happens. Their sex is usually not as great as it sounds and when the fog lifts they look back and realize it wasn't so great. But, we as BS's have a hard time believing it, because "it must have been great, or they wouldn't have done this to me for lousy sex".

Yet, my WS was never able to have an orgasm with the OM, despite having "wild and crazy" sex. They were just being wild and crazy, and having sex in one place that could have led to both of them being arrested...which would have led to who knows what fallout. Yeah, it was crazy, and we are never going to do what they did...because I'm not going to risk going to jail and leaving my children unattended to (my wife did risk that) and I'm not doing anything that would hurt my wife or lead us to lose our home and life where we have worked (my wife did all of that).

So, keep that in mind, just because they did it doesn't mean anything more than that they did it. Your wife is clearly messed up around sex, after all she had an affair.

FBH - Me - Betrayal in late 30's (now much older)
FWS - Her - Affair in late 30's (now much older )
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled BUT!

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 brybry75 (original poster new member #36686) posted at 3:55 AM on Thursday, September 6th, 2012

Standinghere - thanks for your advice. There is no sexual abuse but definitely FoO issues that she is dealing with...again I feel how does that relate to her conscious decision to betray me?

The sex thing is an issue for me I must admit - she and I were our firsts for everything up to that point. Now that has changed. It was something I cherished as it was unique to us. That's gone now.

I suppose I miss that innocence we had...something we should still have.

When I found out - I wasn't told but discovered a chat log - the AP and WW conspired to say it was only one time...like that would make a difference or change the outcome. It wasn't until I sent the log to WW that she came clean. That said it took days for her to answer questions honestly - she was lying and in damage control before.

The sex question I asked and got answered hurt but not as much as finding an email to WW GF that was sent 3 days after D-day...where all WW could talk about was AP in romantic terms that she has not used on me in decades.

After this I started to let go...I was mentally in the process of destroying the once valid mind image I had of my WW and starting to build another, more accurate but less idolized one. There were a few days there where I was completely disconnected from her and honestly thought about ending the relationship.

WW refused to leave the house (we separated for about 6-7 weeks but she moved back in to work on things) even when I asked...which at least shows some level of commitment I suppose.

Just had a thought today - on the weekend I had a scheduled appt and came home to find WW having a shower - it was in the morning. She got upset when I asked how she was doing and started crying...telling me that she was sorry, that she didn't want me to leave her, that she didn't know how to make it up to me. This is different to what she would do during the A but...what if she is seeing him again? Am I paranoid? Am I a chump? When, if at all, can I trust the woman I gave my heart to foe years and then crushed it without mercy?

(Sorry for the last line - I wear my heart on my sleeve)

posts: 40   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2012   ·   location: Australia
id 6006121
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Brandon808 ( member #35619) posted at 4:04 AM on Thursday, September 6th, 2012

First of all you never have to apologize to any of us on SI for "wearing your heart on your sleeve". Really.

From what your posts about WW I understand your concerns that she broke down crying. Did you discuss with her with your fears? You certainly have every right to.

I hate it for you. You didn't deserve any of this.

posts: 4634   ·   registered: May. 20th, 2012
id 6006137
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nuance ( member #28793) posted at 4:48 AM on Thursday, September 6th, 2012

Trust but verify. Voice activated recorder + keylogger should help you.

Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

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id 6006198
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 brybry75 (original poster new member #36686) posted at 9:39 PM on Monday, September 10th, 2012

WW and I have been away on a weekend together...during which nearly every comment she makes I want to say "why don't you go f&%$y friend". I don't but it is what I really want to say.

I feel like a mess...what the hell am I doing playing happy couples? The reality is she not only f&#& one of my friends for a year and a half but she fell for him.

Shouldn't I just pull the pin and call it a day? We have no kids (apparently her IC and WW have agreed that the affair was yet another delaying tactic to stop this) and WW didn't care about me or our relationship history so why should I?

How am I ever supposed to forgive this? Why should I even try?

Seriously - what kind of person does this to another? Certainly not the one I fell in love with years ago...

posts: 40   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2012   ·   location: Australia
id 6012950
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Brandon808 ( member #35619) posted at 9:57 PM on Monday, September 10th, 2012

If she "fell for him" then why is she with you? Is she trying to R? Is she rugsweeping? Is it false R?

Many WS "fall for" their AP's only to defog later and wonder later "WTF was I thinking?".

Shouldn't I just pull the pin and call it a day?

That's your call. When you're truly Done only you can know it.

apparently her IC and WW have agreed that the affair was yet another delaying tactic to stop this

A delaying tactic to stop ending the M? That's a very strange way to delay it imho. It sounds like IC is defining the A as an exit-A yet WW is still with you.

I wonder about the IC's ability to help your WW. WW may have been unhappy in the M but having an A never solves it and only makes it worse.

It boils down to what you want (R or D) and what is she able to do (true remorse/R or D). It takes two.

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crisp ( member #34236) posted at 10:12 PM on Monday, September 10th, 2012

I think he meant the delaying tactic had to do with starting a kid family.

Endeavor to persevere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csEzTwKemwY

posts: 654   ·   registered: Dec. 17th, 2011   ·   location: NE US
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standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 2:21 AM on Tuesday, September 11th, 2012

Warning, this is a long response.

There is no sexual abuse but definitely FoO issues that she is dealing with...

You don't know this yet. Unfortunately, you don't really know much at this point and that is the way of things. Several months or a year or more of MC and her getting IC and you may know enough to know that those FOO issues are not also sex abuse issues. I do this work professionally, and my personal record of hidden sexual abuse with a client is 60 years, and her husband didn't have a clue.

again I feel how does that relate to her conscious decision to betray me?

It isn't so much a conscious "decision to betray you" as it is "a conscious decision to do something to herself that also constitutes a betrayal of the marriage and spouse". This is not a semantic thing, it is fucked up thinking, in a person who is dealing with their underlying issues in a destructive manner. This may be hard to read, or even understand, but oftentimes the WS isn't thinking of the BS at all because you have become so unimportant at the moment. After the high of the sex act, in the aftermath, then comes the crying, the self anger, the realization of what really has happened i.e. "I've betrayed my spouse".

The sex thing is an issue for me I must admit - she and I were our firsts for everything up to that point. Now that has changed. It was something I cherished as it was unique to us. That's gone now.

Something honestly more substantial and worthwhile has to replace that. Truthfully, and anyone reading who wants to bash me on this feel free to bash away, "firsts" in sex is not that unique. The most unique thing is "lasts" in the acts, where someone finds someone that they decide to spend their life with and never stray. That, unfortunately for the marriage and marital partner, may be the spouse they betrayed and came back to. Sometimes that return takes place after a decade or more, sometimes it is a week or a month or less.

That said it took days for her to answer questions honestly - she was lying and in damage control before.

Hard to take, I know, I put up with lies for 9 years after the affair my wife had. In MC she lied so much that the counselor must have thought I was over-reacting to things. Lying is a form of protection, she is protecting something. It may be the affair partner, it may be her marriage, it may be you, it may be her ego, it may be many things, or all things, but that lying has to break down before she can truly recover and before you and she can reconcile. It will soon be 2 years since my wife broke down and stopped lying, and it came in a flood.

where all WW could talk about was AP in romantic terms that she has not used on me in decades.

All that was fantasy fog talk. Immature BS talk. He was a cheater, she was a cheater, they were destroying two families, and abusing their marital partners sexually...and affairs are a form of sexual abuse, make no mistake, which a number of counselors and authorities agree on this. Try this on for size when you think of this, because this is what it is.

Romantic WS's talking to each other in these situations are like Hitler and Stalin telling each other what "great leaders" (great lovers and friends) they are and congratulating each other and being great pals at the beginning of WW II, joining together to destroy Poland (destroy two marriages and fuck over their closest associates...their spouses) and several other countries. Later the US and Allies (the betrayed spouses) find out about it, but defeating the Germany/Japan/Italy (the affair root) is actually paramount and Stalin (your wayward spouse...for sake of argument...the other WS can be Hitler) comes back into the fold (rejoins the marriage). You reading it later, is like Eisenhower reading their private communications and saying "wait a minute, Stalin (your wife) never talked like this to me" and having to decide to swallow it in the interests of saving the world (the marriage) from destruction.

Yeah, Hitler and Stalin were two really fucked up people and destroyed their countries.

telling me that she was sorry, that she didn't want me to leave her, that she didn't know how to make it up to me.

Finally, she is saying something that really makes sense. She doesn't know, and she can't know, she has to work, and work, and work, and work, and work, on herself and the marriage, not on you, to try to save the marriage if she can, to figure out how to make it up to you, if it can be done. She may not be able to make it up to you. The marriage may end. Without hard work it will either end, or go on in worse shape than before.

Hope that helps with making sense of things.

FBH - Me - Betrayal in late 30's (now much older)
FWS - Her - Affair in late 30's (now much older )
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled BUT!

posts: 1684   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2012   ·   location: USA
id 6013275
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standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 2:23 AM on Tuesday, September 11th, 2012

Now, just briefly...

MC'or, highly regarded in her field (best we could find), has told me I need to let this go and focus on us reconnecting.

She's right, but you don't let go just yet. You let go when you are ready, and when full disclosure and true, not superficial or false, intimacy has been reestablished, and when true reconciliation work has begun by the WS.

You also don't let go all at once.

FBH - Me - Betrayal in late 30's (now much older)
FWS - Her - Affair in late 30's (now much older )
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled BUT!

posts: 1684   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2012   ·   location: USA
id 6013278
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