SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Not sure where to put this.
I’ve caught my husband messaging other women many times.
The first time this happened he was sexting an ex fling of his, who sent me screenshots of their chat via facebook (how I discovered it all). I am going to call her A.
It then became a cycle that like once a year i would find out he was inappropriately messaging someone (not A, just random people). He would cry. Beg for forgiveness. Go to therapy. He then changed his sim, said he would start again.
Then things settled down and we were at the towns fiestas where we live (I live in Spain).
A few weeks passed and I got the urge to check his phone. I looked and there was a conversation with A. I couldn’t quite believe it as I presumed she was long gone. In this conversation, they were saying how good it was to see each other at the fiestas. They weren’t sexual but there were clearly enjoying catching up and chatting. Every couple days or so one of them would message ‘hi, how are you?’ And they would chat.
I was livid. I showed the messages to him and he told me ‘I haven’t done anything’. First thing to leave his mouth. He kept it from me that he was messaging her, which to me is something. I was fuming. I also discovered he had a secret instagram account which he coincidentally couldn’t remember the password to, and was liking her photos of her in underwear.
We somehow carry on.
Then he is sitting on the sofa next to me sexting another woman!! I asked who he was messaging and he quickly closed the conversation down and got all shifty. He finally confessed…but I had to wrestle his phone off him.
I didn’t fully forgive him after that time. I had my guard up and I knew at this point I can’t trust him but we have kids, so I wanted to make it work. I went to therapy and also told him what I need from him to trust him (no secrets, no lying, open communication).
Fast forward, on Sunday I discovered that A got back in touch with him and he had engaged and spoken to her, asking how she is. And then deleted that conversation and messaged her a couple of days later to ask how she is. He saved her number as X. I discovered it, though he didn’t get defensive or lie that time. He straight up told me.
I’ve been adamant I want to separate. Last night was the first time I’ve been OK to talk to him. I told him I was over all this and he said he wanted to let me know that A had messaged him on Monday evening but he had called her to tell her to stop messaging and that he didn’t want to hear from her again.
I struggled to trust him again after the last time. It didnt come back. So I feel it’s now completely lost, maybe forever? Without trust, what do we have?
Any advice for me??

Well, what you have here is a man who does not, IMO, respect you. He may be fond of you, attracted to you, "love" you (whatever that means to him, but he doesn't respect you because he won't do what you ask which is not to have these inappropriate conversations and texts with these women, especially A. He can't seem to stop talking to A in some way so....I have to ask him...what is the attraction to A....why can't you stop talking or texting or liking her bullshit on IG, etc. Why do you do this? Why do you honor her with your company instead of me with your fidelity. Why don't you respect the trust and the 2nd chances I give you? Do you have NO SELF CONTROL? What is wrong with you, man, what are you getting out of this thing with A. And it's true of the others too.

I am NOT a fan of opposite sex relationships, I think they are inherently a bad idea....for the obvious reason you see. Unless there's a big age difference or one of them is ugly (even that's not always a stop) the normal emotional and intellectual attraction between friends often has a physical element too....in oppo sex relationships. Maybe nothing happens, but I feel that the door.....is open. It's open to some extent. And the attention that is paid to an oppo sex "friend" is attention that is missing from the spouse. Especially if you think something more if going on....which realistically is often the case.

So I feel he doesn't respect you, he consistently violates the boundaries you valiantly and kindly put up, trying to keep things together. He's gonna keep doing this especially if he thinks you'll keep forgiving him, which you have.

I always ask people what do you WANT IN LIFE? What do you personally want to achieve, how do you want to be treated, what are your values? What are your lines in the sand? What do you want out of a relationship? I think you need to define these things about yourself because that gives you a solid basis to act from....knowing yourself means knowing what you will and will not deal with. It makes you strong, even if sometimes it makes you sad. Learn to be strong.

If I were you, I would be talking to a lawyer and looking at divorce. I don't know the laws of course, in Spain, but you need to check this out and find out what is the best you can work out for you and your kids. And when you have that to your satisfaction....start the process. If he realizes that you ARE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS...maybe it will help to catapult him into starting to change himself. Choosing MALE FRIENDSHIPS over women that seem like a challenge to you and your position. For things to change, somebody has to start the change. I think he's just gonna keep doing this until YOU start the change. So, as hard as I know it is, that's what I would do.
You can talk to a therapist for your own needs and goals but I don't know helpful it will be to talk as a couple because he's just gonna bullsht that person and you too. The bullshit has to stop.

Stay with us, there's a lot of other advice and support here, I'm only one person, others will have other perspectives and you'll get a lot of help. It's an excellent site and the people are very caring. Do not be afraid, God is always with you even in the dark. No matter what happens you will come out of this a stronger and wiser person. Good luck!

P.S. Ya know, I think a man who needs interaction with multiple women even if his wife or partner doesn't want him to do this.....is a weak and immature man. They don't generally make good or safe partners and this guy has to GROW UP.

Hi, welcome back to SI.

I looked at your previous posts, your husband is a serial cheater, he has been doing this for years, only you can decide when enough is enough.

He has shown you who he is repeatedly, I think you need to believe him.

So sorry he is not the man you thought he was.

To me, if this website has one main insight, it’s that remaining in infidelity is a choice. There’s just no magic spell, no set of words or actions, that will get someone to stop cheating. If there were, the pinned thread on JFO would be "Just Do This" instead of the "Tactical Primer". Right now, you’re stuck with a man who won’t stop cheating on you. You’ve exposed him, but shame hasn’t stopped him. You’ve shown him how much it hurts you, but that hasn’t stopped him either. For years now, you have been in some kind of pick-me dance, with its predictable results.

Just as remaining in infidelity is a choice, so is getting out of it. You have that power. You just have to choose to do it.

Have you read the Tactical Primer? https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/documents/library/articles/discovery/tactical-primer/

You’re are at step 5 or 6. Learn the 180 and implement it. Implement Step 6.

I’m sorry, TDML, you have all of my sympathy.

I’ve been adamant I want to separate.

I think this is a great idea, and I hope you follow through with it. Separation will allow you time to relax and stop being hypervigilant (often impossible to turn off around a serial cheater). It'll also give you space to figure out your true feelings about all this.

Remember that his actions matter more than his words. Why didn't he call A in front of you, or her put her in a group text with you, if he was so sincere in wanting her to stop? (Though I've heard of WS's doing that and then telling their AP somewhere else that they didn't mean it, so.)

It's okay if you're done. When someone repeatedly breaks your trust in spite being given multiple chances to become more honest, it is exhausting. If you're tired, it's okay to lay that burden down and walk away. You've been kind and merciful and compassionate. Even if he has mental problems, addiction problems, etc., those are his problems to deal with, and you don't need to let his problems drag you down forever. It's time to be kind, merciful, and compassionate to yourself.

[This message edited by NoThanksForTheMemories at 4:53 AM, Thursday, June 11th]

Sister,

If a male and a female are interacting with each other and there is attraction it is sexual.

Period.

You have all rights to feel devastated, because it’s betrayal.

Doesn’t matter what line they crossed physically or in fantasy, what he gives you are justifications that are not meant to care for your pain, but are measurements, trying to manage you to gauge out just how much you can take and he can still get away with it with zero consequences.

No your pain isn’t a consequence that he regrets, because he’s being a selfish asshole, is validation of how great he is in having a woman struggling for him while he fucks around with others.

Your pain, Makes his cheater persona feel good, his positive side (assuming he’s got one) is not a the steering wheel right now, just the usual idiotic ego of a cheater.

He is not in the empathetic mindset to feel bad for your trauma, he might feel shame for being caught, but the worst part of him might actually be enjoying it in this moment.

Be sure that this is coming out in his chats with the other woman, in his mind he could see you two being jealous as bonding even stronger to him (while reality is, he is destroying your bond, and the AP being an AP, doesn’t really care, she is there for validation having similar issues as your man).

I feel that is the case with your husband from what you wrote, he is playing the jealousy game without realizing that he is actually burning your relationship to ashes.

You need to put yourself first girl. Hard 180. Don’t fall for games and false remorse. I’d rather tell you to start living your life as it’s over with him and he was just a bad mistake.

Unless he comes back with a complete radical change, crawling over broken glass, I would consider him dead and rotten and not someone who deserves a tear cried from you for his passing.

I am NOT a fan of opposite sex relationships, I think they are inherently a bad idea....for the obvious reason you see. Unless there's a big age difference or one of them is ugly (even that's not always a stop) the normal emotional and intellectual attraction between friends often has a physical element too....in oppo sex relationships. Maybe nothing happens, but I feel that the door.....is open. It's open to some extent. And the attention that is paid to an oppo sex "friend" is attention that is missing from the spouse. Especially if you think something more if going on....which realistically is often the case.

Abso freaking lutely.

Where there’s any level of sexual tension, even if only one sided, There’s no complete guarantee of safety, no matter if one is ugly or not. Chances are there will be a moment, where alcohol, moods, emotional lows or many other circumstances will make you indulge in what you would normally never consider. You might regret it later but we all have ups and downs or moments of weakness, where any person willing to comfort us will be like water in the desert. And even if just one is available in the slightest you’ll take it.

And then awkwardness and a tainted "friendship " ( but was really a friendzoning wasn’t it?).

I am not entirely against opposite sex relationships with one caveat: boundaries as hard as steel.

My own experience is that I only have a woman who is my friend (outside family) and I would never consider "mating" with her, because we grew up together as children she is like a sister: she is objectively very beautiful and has a great personality, despite that I saw her naked as child and grown up, zero reactions because she is instinctively "family " to me. And still I know that doesn’t go two ways, so even though I’m never going to touch her with a finger, and I love her dearly, boundaries are always up.

That’s to say is really tricky. It’s understandable to have opposite sex relationships and I am ok with that if A) you are single or B) you have no attraction and you keep clear boundaries about complete exclusion from the intimate emotional connection that is reserved only to couples.

The few times I’ve been in a monogamous relationship with a girlfriend I have never allowed myself to have alone time or crossing boundaries with another girl. Never met them alone intentionally, if it happened by bumping in then polite and warmth but distancing that can be easily read. No matter who, wether it was girl I slept with before, a friend or colleague of mine or her, the distance is intentional and palpable.

It doesn’t mean to be rude but it does mean to respect your partner. Your partner must always come first. If it doesn’t that’s a clue that either you have issues or eventually they are not a good match for you but just a fling. Is something that should always make you ponder.

If you are a person who can hold their boundaries, opposite sex relationships are not a problem. You can enjoy their company (most often with your partner present) and appreciate the person with a clear stop sign on where the connection can go.

A cheater is a person that doesn’t know how to handle boundaries, so this kind of person and opposite sex relationships? Yeah, no. If you’re not capable of holding boundaries is like to put an ex alcoholic in an open bar and expect there’s no temptation.

It’s delusional, self delusion or self sabotage.

I know we like to tell us we are better, we are different and while I appreciate the sentiment in a sense as to build self confidence (but more precisely, becoming confident that you can build strong boundaries), we aren’t like that from the get go. We CAN be "better " if we put ourselves into it, it’s an active choice and self work, self love if you wish.

Our nature is beautiful but each high has a low, or a shadow if you want. I know what my body’s nature is, what is designed to do. Survival and reproduction. My nature doesn’t really care much about how I go for that, it only cares I fulfill it. I need nourishing or I die. I need children or my genes die.

If I have a healthy diet and exercise or i gorge myself with junk and do no activity, the baseline is satisfied no matter what. Sure one is a far more happy, productive and fulfilling lifestyle and even my body and mind rewards me with confidence and happy chemicals for choosing well. This is desirable.

But it comes after survival. Were I to starve and I have put myself in a situation where there’s only a fast food or junk snacks, the instinct will likely kick in. Sure I can likely resist the urges out of willpower. But they are there and soon or later they’ll cave in and I will do rather than die.

It’s not that this makes me a victim of the fast food, I am an idiot because I allowed myself to be in that situation. I didn’t hold my boundaries to avoid getting caught in there.

Same goes for sexual matters, perhaps you wouldn’t die as fast as with starvation but if your heart beats and you are reasonably healthy and in your fertile adult life, you are asking for it.

There is absolutely no opposite sex person you can’t get sexually involved with, besides family biological or acquired (and we know sometimes some people are sick and broken enough to go there anyway, but that is hopefully a different can of worms, I am considering your average person).

It’s far easier to get into someone’s pants than heart.

I know for a fact that I can be completely and totally with a single woman, or I can be involved with a dozen of girls.

One choice is nourishing and fulfilling and gives me happiness (unless she cheats obviously or we wouldn’t be here 😆). The other gives me variety, shallow validation and leaves me empty as I don’t really allow any of them in my world, superficiality leaves you with an unfillable void.

So one can deny that and convince themselves or others that it’s the case.

Or one can forge their boundaries to make sure that can never happen.

The second is the only realistic way to make sure you have people in your life with a clear position and role.

You can love them as friends and will be sexually uninterested if you have boundaries.

If you don’t then I don’t think is possible. Is just a matter of time and chance before you get sexual.

This is why co-workers affairs are so common. If you’re not good in holding boundaries, it’s not a matter of if, just when. It will happen. because there is contact and familiarity, so defenses will go down at some point without you noticing unless you have real boundaries. That’s possibly the most important trait one should look for in a partner unless you live in a desert island, if there’s any lack of boundaries and self love, then you should consider It’s a self fulfilling prophecy, either work on that or leave because chances are you will find yourself here in the club.

I know is no pep talk, however clarity might help you to see if the person you keep close (and yourself too) are committed or they’re not.

Your man is not right now. You are.

In the same way you can have someone who is committed to you as you can be. Does your husband want to be that man (so a partner) or does he prefer to fool around and be a "boundary-free just friends" with other women? (My point being he’s cheating). That’s his choice.

Are you ok with you having boundaries and commitment while your partner has the other way? Is this what you want or not?

This is Your choice.

All you need to do is to set your boundaries between you and him. He was in before he allowed other women into his own boundaries (which he probably doesn’t have)?

Fantastic, if you don’t like that, all you have to do is redraw your boundaries so he’s kept out from your intimate world.

Body, mind, heart, wherever you feel to draw the line, that’s the right call to draw it and cut him off. Is the line of self respect and self love.

That’s what the 180 is.

I know you’re suffering sister, but he has you bleeding enough that you can use some to draw the line.

A reminder of never again in red.

Because you do deserve better.

You have been heard

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 9:13 AM, Thursday, June 11th]