SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi,

New here, so, excuse me if I break any unwritten rules. I´ll try to keep it short. I´ll tell the events in chronology.

Married, in my forties, we have kids.

First time around, I was caught using an app (it was from another country, I was basically flirting online with a couple of women from another continent) I am not trying to justify myself, but my "rationale" is, I really wanted to feel desired and seen. It was a very low period in the relationship after the first child.

I got a second chance.

The second time. Wife was pregnant with second child, I was away for work for half a year, visitng every couple of weeks. I visited an escort. At the time of the act I felt almost sick to my stomach... I basically paid for seeing a lady in her underwear and got to the point of getting half undressed.

My wife was going over my phone, she found some very obvious messages. This time I thought I lost her for good. It was months away, cut off of all contact, one of my darkest periods, trying to make the new job work. We ended up reconciling and moving to a new place.

After 6 years here, living as a family, and a third child, over a year with no intimacy and very spotty moments for ourselves. One night I resorted to a video chat with a cam girl. Again... days later she found out. (again going over my phone, stupid me, but I guess truth finds a way). As a side note, we never had an issue with pornography or anything of the sort (she and I don't mind this)

I am not looking for sympathy. Trying to give a little context of the times this happened and how apart they were. This last time was a few months ago, this time it feels like the straw that broke the camel's back. She is taking time to reflect, needed some distance, she now took a small holiday (long overdue since its her first "alone time" since the kids were born) visiting family and friends abroad.

I am a bit desperate, definitely pushing were I should grant space, lots of insecurities bubbling up. Afraid of her deciding not to pursue reconciliation (although she has repeated her intention to do so) she wants to work things out for our kids, for the life we built...

I guess I don't have any questions now, just putting my story out there, in case someone resonates, has some advice.

I am doing therapy, working on myself, reading. Trying to take this the most proactive and conscientious way possible. I want to change this pattern that seems to have appeared in my life. If I get a positive outcome my wish is to never fall back and hurt her feelings and her trust again. I want a way forward in rebuilding trust...

[This message edited by Matias at 9:52 AM, Thursday, November 6th]

I have struggled to find a response that is helpful. It’s outside my realm of experience.

It sounds like you have not been able to deal with the less attention that comes with pregnancies. Maybe you can tell us more about what that part was like?

It sounds like you have been trading instant gratification for the thing you claim to want which is your wife and family. That is not a judgement at all, I too decided the short term pay off was shinier. I am just trying to relate and mirror back what I see in your post.

Do you feel like the lack of consequences has led you to do essentially the same sorts of behaviors for all three pregnancies? And with three small children that takes up a lot of space. How are you managing that?

Hi,

Don´t worry about pointing fingers ofr being direct. I promise you you cannot be as harsh as I am on myself. I take no offense and value direct data if it gets the point through rather than taking a long way around. In the same regard, I will talk in a crude and matter of factly way when stating facts, just for brevity's sake. I understand the weight of my actions and I am going through a very conscientious process, also trying to do the work... I just want to save people reading this some time.

Again, I am not trying to justify myself, but since you asked, all my betrayals coincided with long moments of very low to non existant intimacy (except for the first one if memory served correctly)

First time it was flirting online, after some proper introspection I feel it had to do with a long rooted feeling of validation I sought in feeling attractive or "desired" by women. I placed a lot of self worth in this perceived sense of value.

Second time it definitely had to do with me being away for a long time (definitely this worked up a sense of lack of accountability and being able to "get away with it" given the distance). There was also an element of lack of intimacy (life with a kid and wife being pregnant). This time the consequences were much dire. The pain I inflicted on my wife and the aftermath were also more brutal. I was basically almost cut off contact with my family for two months.

Last time was many years apart. Again, there was an element of distance and lack of intimacy (understandable with the ups and downs of life with three kids). We have had a LONG time with no physical intimacy whatsoever. We were basically flying on autopilot... daily life, putting kids to bed, watch an episode on something next to each other (cuddle yes)... A couple of kisses a day was basically all our physical interaction.(again, excuse the crude and short explanation of the surrounding facts)

In this circumstances, it happened that I was then covered in work, working long hours at night on a project (apart from my 9 to 5). The "cover of night" plus having turned to pornography (which was never an issue in our relationship to begin with) made me eventually "turn the heat up"... if it makes sense? going to a live cam call felt like a step out of the boundaries of normal use of pornography but still not as bad as physical encounter with another person (at least in my "man" reasoning brain back when I did it).

In all these cases, I have never laid a finger on another woman... if that serves as any (if at least poor) consolation. I have not sought an emotional affair either. And none of these instances extended in time. they were, in an of themselves, a "spur of the moment" trying to satisfy an itch. I guess I tell this a lot to myself as a way of soothing me into believing I did not fuck up as royally as I have, or to appear less "reprehensible". I am not trying to avoid guilt. But come think of it, it surely is part of the problem. (I am leaving it here cause I wrote it initially, and I want a register of all this)

Again, not justifying. I have seen the damage I have done to my wife, her trust, our relationship and the risk I have put my family life into... in repeated occasions, no less. Guilt is eating me inside...

Maybe this clarifies some of your questions?

How I am managing now?

I stopped using pornography altogether. I guessed might as well stay away from any "temptation" for now.

I have stopped masturbating for a while now. (I know there are medical reasons why this is not recomendable, but, seeing that is the first time in my life I have gone any period of time without doing so... ) I am not saying I won't go back to any of these things in the future (masturbation and using porn that is), I just don´t want to do it as a knee jerk reaction. I just want to focus my time and energy on trying to find any hidden root causes, avoid any future possibility of betrayal, and I want to re build trust and work towards a full reconciliation. I want to build better habits around my sexuality and impulse control. And focus on the path ahead, with as little external noise as possible. And surprisingly, it has been a lot easier than I envisioned (the abstinence part).

I am still learning what this looks like and what work I will have to do. My wife still has to figure out things for herself. And I want to give her the space and support she needs to do so. I want too be there for her, for our daughters, and as corny as it may sound, be a better person. I honestly don´t want to be a person that continues to do this in the future.

Let me know if this answers your post. I am glad to share more.

[This message edited by Matias at 9:48 AM, Thursday, November 6th]

It's good that you are working on figuring out your whys and the correlated circumstances. I would encourage you to continue exploring them and to get as deep as you can go with them.

For example, if you were seeking validation and that feeling of being desired in the absence of receiving that from your wife, does this reflect a deficit in self-esteem?
Can you look in the mirror and think that you are desirable, even if your wife is not in a place where intimacy is a priority at the moment (as it so often is with pregnancy and postpartum)?
If not, how do you get there? (I'm still figuring that out myself.)

What are your personal values?
Are they values that, if acting in accordance with them, causes one to avoid committing infidelity?
If so, what allowed you to ignore them?
If not, can you find something to value that will help prevent further infidelity?
For example, if you do not inherently value integrity (doing the right thing if no one is watching or you think you won't be caught), can you focus more on how much you value your wife, your family, and your marriage? Can you come to value commitment, or selflessness, such that you maintain the boundaries set in place, even when crossing them is tempting? They can be any that you think will help.
What does acting in accordance with these values look like in everyday life? Practice them until they become habitual.

You know yourself better now, and you are beginning to recognize some patterns. Awareness is a good first step. What sort of new rules can you set for yourself to avoid temptation until you develop the tools to say "no" when you should? What precautions can you take to safeguard your marriage? Maybe this means putting screen time settings on your devices to block adult websites and having your wife set the password to those settings, so you can't disable them. (I have had to do this, and it's very effective. It's okay to admit it if you feel powerless to stop and need additional help to stay on track. Seeking that help is keeping yourself on track.)

Focus on the damage you did cause to your relationship, not all of the other things that others did and you didn't.

When she returns and is ready, can you and your BW schedule regular alone time to foster reconnection? Take on the mental load of planning dates and arranging childcare. Make these sessions meaningful, where you can really focus on and talk with one another, while also allowing for physical affection (not necessarily sex.) You need to bridge that distance you're feeling from her, and I'm sure she would appreciate the effort.

I don't know if I would recommend denying yourself masturbation entirely, provided you can do it without porn. I feel like it's like dieting: if you suddenly start eating perfectly clean and never allow yourself to have anything pleasurable, you're more likely to break and binge out. But if you think it's working for you, I'm glad to hear it.

It does.

Honestly I asked the questions more for you than for me. What I found helped me a lot was writing all my thoughts and feelings out. It helped examine them. It helped to do it here because then different people could chime in and give me different perspectives that might improve how I am thinking about it. I am a big believer our thoughts are where it all begins.

For a long time I didn’t examine myself or what I believed, or why I did things, or why I wanted this or that, or even my values. This site did help me with that, but also just writing it out was a big part of my recovery.

It’s human to want physical intimacy. I can understand the loneliness and frustration that happens during a sexless marriage. (Or at least a long period of it) In fact, I had a sexless marriage the first go round. We were both young but there were no pregnancies or no kids. I remember how that made me feel.

I am of course not justifying your decisions to go outside the boundaries of your marriage, but I do know without the right ways to cope and deal with it or the strength of the commitment versus those strong feelings the cognitive dissonance that can begin to occur. It sounds like you are really wanting to try to get to the bottom of this time. Keep striving towards that it can be rewarding work.

How is your wife doing? The extra detail of having this coincide with pregnancy is how much of a trickle postpartum can be without these added issues. Maybe write about how you are supporting her, how you can do better in that area. There is a book called "how to help your spouse heal after infidelity" and it’s helped people. Also on the left side of the screen there is a healing library that has some articles on that you may find helpful.

Also, being hard on yourself is natural and helpful in the beginning of recovery. One thing that helped me a lot as things progressed was dealing with what to do about all the shame. Shame is insidious and can really take control in ways that are not productive. A book that helped me with that and in learning to make stronger connections relationships, especially in my marriage was "rising Strong" by Brene Brown. Even think about reading it together, maybe replace that time to watchable show once or twice a week and read a bit and discuss it.

Keep working on it, it’s worthwhile and can make a big difference for both of you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:37 PM, Thursday, November 6th]

Another thing-

What things do you do when you get in a dry spell? Do you convey your feelings about it to your wife? How does that all go?

Thanks both of you for your insight.

My wife is in a place of self evaluation. I am not sure she is entirely commited to giving me a chance. I know that she is willing to work forward for the sake of our kids.

That scares me tremendously. I am less anxious now and trying to focus all my energy in this process of recovery, finding out about myself, working on myself and of course, towards reconciliation and building trust back.

You have given me a lot to ponder on. And a lot of good anchors to use as reference points for my thoughts.

I´ll use this as fodder for my work moving forward and I´ll make an elaborate answer as soon as I can spare the time.

Again, thak you!

A bit of clarification, my last betrayal episode occurred when our smallest was 4, immediate postpartum was quite a way back, we just grew distant physically. I am talking about a year in between intimate encounters to give a realistic idea. (again trying to give context)

I am not blaming this on her, I think we both worked towards this distancing, and a LOT could have been done on my part to foster these moments of closeness (without even the pressure of intimacy at first, for sure) I did not take the lead, I just let it be... so did her. (in all honesty, the last day for ourselves was her idea)

When she is back from her holiday, I want to take it at her rythm, I want to rekindle our marriage, our friendship, and eventually, of course, our relationship. I love this woman, I am truly attracted to her too. I find her intelligent beautiful and engaging. I like being around her. I want a future next to her.

There was a question about self esteem.... the moments were I find myself "desireable" without external validation (my wife's included) are far in between, and very linked to my physical wellbeing (being in shape) I was always very judgmental about my image. I was always relatively fit. My mid thirties and forties and parenthood made me fall out of shape. A few years ago I "reclaimed" my fitness and was quite happy with who I was (aesthetically at least) I shared this journey with her and coincidentally, we were quite close then (and conceived our third child in those times too)

Since then, especially the last year and a half, beginning with an injury and then work pressure. I fell back. She maintiained her steady rythm.

That´s as much info as I can muster off the top of my head.

Hope it helps.

Also: Can I somehow take the "STOP" sign off of my post, I´d like for anyone to be able to answer. Even a BS perspective would be super valuable.

Thank you very much!

I will alert the mods for you to request the stop sign be taken off. It’s difficult for them to find those requests in the voluminous posts on this site so you will see a mods alert thread.

Stop sign removed per Matias' request. Betrayed Spouses are now able to post on this thread.

Thank you very much for removing the stop sign!

Since you asked for the stop sign to be removed I assume you want a Betrayed spouses perspective I am the betrayed soouse of a porn abuser as well he did the online chatting thing as well as interactive online sex, so very similar behaviour to your own, We also had considerable time apart as I traveled often for business and then later also spent months at a time out of the country conducting research. So many similarities in our stories- minus the pregnancy part.

Thus I have some thoughts, not sure if anything is helpful but things for you to ponder.

It is concerning that you dont see your porn use as cheating and have only viewed certain other specific acts as cheating. Porn IS cheating whether your wife sees that or not. You are choosing to have a sexual experience with someone other than your spouse. Look up all the info on how porn rewires your brain. When you masterbate to porn your brain thinks you are having sex with the person on the screen. How could that be something ither than cheating? It may have even contributed to lack of intimacy/sex in your marriage.

You seem almost proud or defensive that you never physically touched another woman or got emotionally i comved, , but it is still cheating and just as devastating, even if it isn't physical.

How do you know that your wife doesnt have a problem with you matching porn? Does your wife know how much you watch, what kind of things you choose to watch? This should definitely be part of the conversation.

I had zero clue my spouse watched porn, I assumed he had at some point, always assumed it was rare and quite frankly never thought of him masterbating to it. But you bet when I found out how long it had been going on and how often, you bet it was devastating and i felt betrayed, humiliated , lied to by omission, sad, and very angry. He had a secret sexual life without me. I had a right to feel all those things.

This definitely should be something brought out in the open especially as you mentioned that your acting out was like an escalation of watching porn. I am not saying you are or aren't a porn abuser or addict, but escalation is a classic porn addiction behaviour.

Also, your wife will be dealing with the fact that she found out you betrayed her before, you know how much it hurt her and yet you CHOSE to betray her again anyway.

That is the most devastating part for me. Reconciliation took four years for us the last time around. That is it took me 4 years to come to the point that I could say I trusted my spouse again. FOUR years of pain sadness devestation Anger. And hard work. I went through hell and finally came to the point I felt I could trust and move on....

Then KNOWING what it did to me and us he did it again, and WORSE...that feels like an intentional F You.

That is what your wife is dealing with. You have basically told her that her pain doesn't matter to you.

Not gonna sugar coat it, this will be a long hard road for both of you.

Hi Lizziej,

thanks for your thoughtful response. And I am sorry for the process you had to go through.

When I said "porn wasnt an issue" I mean it in a way that it was something discussed. with and that my wife knew about. That is: just porn, not the transgressions I had that went beyond that.
And even regarding basic porn use, is something I have voluntarily stopped using (at least for now) And I am not discarding the negative effect it may have had in our closeness before, to be honest. So, at least until I have worked through some of my core issues, I do not intend to turn to it any time soon.

You are partially right about me talking about none of my transgressions ever reaching anything physical (one was dangerously close though). I did not bring it up as a matter of pride. I guess I am, or at least was back when I did the post a few days ago, trying to soothe my feeling of guilt. As said before, I leave my post as is, as a register of my attitude / feelings towards this particular issue at the time. I am no longer trying to avoid this blame by way of argumenting this or that. I am facing this full on, with all that it entails. And willing to put all the effort needed. Not only from the side of the relationship, but in my personal dealings with life and its challenges.

Thanks for sharing your experience and be assured I am taking everything I read here with attention and appreciation.

Putting this here, maybe it is useful to someone in a similar position
Today in the morning on my drive to work, youtube was serving me a couple of shorts.

Along comes this man, probably in his mid 50s. He is an ex drug addict, years into his sobriety.

He just says something that is not new in any way, I´ve heard similar concepts presented in similar fashion. Maybe it was the way he said it and the moment in my life when this message came, but it CLICKED, it resonated in a way that was powerful and meaningful.

He said that a point in the midst of his addiction, a person asked him if he would be happy if one of his daughters dated a man like him. He took a honest look inwards at himself, and had to contend with the fact that his answer would be a resounding NO.

He said it cut deep, and he felt it, and that all this years laters he still thinks of this, it helped him forge the man he was now (still faulted, but at a much better place)

I almost had to pull over, it caught me off guard, amidst other random videos on whatever.

Would I be happy if any of my daughters ended up with a man like me?

I have been wrestling with this question all day, as I work.

Am I the man I want my wife to be next to?

I am putting my best foot forward. I am doing the work. I am alligning myself with values I consider paramount in every aspect of my life. It is a tremendous undertaking. I am doing it all at once. Truth at the helm.

Some days are easy, some are not. I cannot change what I did, i have to confront it and contend with it as I move forward.

I want to be this man. I want it so much. I know I can use this motivation to fuel my heart and my spirit for the road ahead. For the four women in my life I wouldn't hesitate to give my life for... I shouldn't hesitate to live my life to honor my feelings towards them.

I know it is nothing new... but boy did it hit me like a jackhammer. I can definitely see things in a different light.

I want to honor the people in my life, my family. I want to earn my wife's trust again, to be deserving of it. I want to be a man my daughter's can look up to and measure the companions they may choose in the future. I want to be an example to follow, no more a shame to hide from.

It is a long road.

a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

Good epiphany.

I have used similiar thoughts to fuel me and they honestly became fundamental to strengthening my understanding and prioritization of my values as well as my integrity in withholding those things.

I governed myself prior with "should" and "shouldn’t" and it was maybe more following rules. Rules aren’t felt the same way and breaking them is easier when no one is looking.

That’s different than leading a life in which your own values rule you because when it’s that way, breaking them hurts. Breaking them to yourself makes you instantly aware of the integrity boundary being drawn.

Matias, I'm sorry, I mistakenly posted my comment to your thread. I wish you well.

Asterisk

[This message edited by Asterisk at 10:48 AM, Friday, November 14th]

Asterisk,

did not get to read it before you edited...

Was it relevant to my particular journey? if so, I'd love to read it. Othwerwise, no need to apologize! I wish you well!

Thanks Matias for your response.

I hope things are progressing ok and you are helping your wife as she goes through this again.

I appreciate your reply. I am still concerned you are minimizing porn use and don't see the connection to your escalating behaviour. I urge you to reread what I wrote.

It is concerning that you dont see your porn use as cheating and have only viewed certain other specific acts as cheating. Porn IS cheating whether your wife sees that or not. You are choosing to have a sexual experience with someone other than your spouse. Look up all the info on how porn rewires your brain. When you masterbate to porn your brain thinks you are having sex with the person on the screen. How could that be something other than cheating? It may have even contributed to lack of intimacy/sex in your marriage.

I understand you have decided to not use porn for the time being but aren't ruling it out in the future. That is concerning. If my husband did not commit to never using again he would be gone. Relapse and disclosure is one thing but intentional use- thats out for us if we are to continue to be married.

Maybe you think I am hammering too much on the topic but heres the thing unless you amd your wife are watching porn together or you are saying to her "hey wife Im going to watch other women naked get sexually aroused by them and masterbate to them aand have an orgasm now is that okay with you? " and she WILLINGLY agreès,you have a secret sexual life .

You imply porn isn't a problem for your wife... are you totally sure? Maybe she said it was OK before but it isn't now after your transgressions. mAybe she says its okay because if the "all men do it" attitude if society so she thinks it must be normal and she must be ok with it- dont confuse common with normal.

I encourage you to make it part of the conversation. If she still says I'm OK with it in the future then ok. But shr has a rught to change her mund at any time. . Just don't assume because some time in the past she didn't have a problem with it that she still feels that way.

I didnt have a problem per se with porn use in the past because 1.] I didnt think it was more than occasional, 2] I didnt think my husband had orgasms while watching other naked women (d'oh- i just thought it was for entertainment and titilation) 3] I didnt realize that porn rewires your brain and kills intimacy in relationshios 4] I didnt realize that when you masterbate to porn your brain literally can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy and yor brain thinks you are f**cking other people outside your marriage

5] I didnt realize the escalation effect and that there was a connection between watching porn and then crossing sexual boundaries you wouldnt otherwise. Like seeking out and chatting with other women, interactive online experiences like cam sites, and actually seeking out physical encounters- even if you dont go through with it its still crossing a boundary to have the intention to have physical sex with someone other than your wife. Those are ALL escalation behaviours.

It is all connected. I know you say you don't plan on starting again anytime soon BUT its concerning you dont really see the connection between porn and your other behaviours. If you did you wouldn't ever plan on using again. You would shut rhe door to it. It's like an addict (not saying your an addict its just a comparison) saying well, I'll stop having any drugs for now because its a problem but I'm not ruling it out in the future. I might want to use soft drugs in the future and thats okay because I can use soft drugs without it leading to hard drugs even though it progressed and became a problem in my past.

If its a problem now it is likely to be a problem in the future. AND you are already a repeat offender. Your wife's pain of finding out you betrayed her didn't stop you from betraying her again. And you do admit porn is part of the problem or you wouldn't have stopped.

It's totally up to you but something for you to consider and - at her pace- discuss with your wife because it doesn't matter what I think. She's the one who was betrayed. She is the only one who can decide if its an issue for her and she has a right to change her mind at any time. .

She can't tell you to stop forever its your choice. But she can say if you want to use porn the marriage is over. Unless you have deep reflections yourself and discussions wirh her about it you won't know.

I hope you are encouraging her to do all she can to educate herself and take care of herself and supporting her in anyway you can. I am sure it is especially shattering for it to happen a second time.

Please let her know that there are people out there who have gone through similar situations and that we understand her and our hearts break for her pain.

[Edited for many typos.]

[This message edited by lizziej at 6:24 PM, Saturday, November 15th]

Hey lizziej,

thanks again for your response. If I am being honest, I haven't given that much thought to the idea of porn as an act of infidelity until reading your words. I am not saying I agree completely, but I am presently in a position were I am trying to break negative patterns. Some of them pertaining my relation to pleasure as an anxiety regulation mechanism, and also because of what I said before, that I consider it may have played a role in my escalation.

In this light, porn simply doesn't have a place / role in my journey, and it may also not have a role in my life in the future either. I am trying to grow as a man, as a father and as a spouse. If part of that growth is not resorting to porn again, so be it. Small sacrifice if we are being honest.

Thanks for your concern regarding my wife. She knows I have joined this forum (talked about it to her, in case she wanted to use it as a resource) and I am sure she has read some of what I wrote.

I am still learning to navigate this situation, respecting her boundaries and simply being more present and reliable in every aspect of my life. Hoping that I can rebuild the trust I broke, one day at a time,