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You can get some amazing tiny cameras that are easy to hide. That’s what I would do too since it seems you need real tangible proof. Hell our cell phone cameras are better now than most dedicated cameras.

I'm going to offer a weirdly optimistic perspective to you.

She might see her cousin is the only safe "positive" outlet for male attention that doesn't want to have sex with her. She feels it's ok to have this extra physical contact. To make sexual jokes without it becoming actually sexual. This sort of thing.

I'm not saying this attention is appropriate, but that the intent isn't quite the same as an affair.

She also isn't hiding anything from you, so there isn't really any deceit going on. I think of deceit as being a critical part of an affair. You even said, you would take and show her a video. This is often a litmus test for an EA "would you feel comfortable being seen doing what you do with your friend or having your partner watch a video of it?" So the reality is that she isn't hiding anything right? She is comfortable with you seeing the actions because at the very least, she seems to think she isn't doing anything wrong.

You've already brought it up and she has sort of been defensive, but I think it's likely that you could bring it up again specifically saying you aren't accusing her of cheating, but that you find the level of attention they give each other just a little too over the top.

Emphasize how it makes you feel and see if you can't come to some sort of agreement on what interactions are reasonable with a cousin.

So this is pretty accurate and it's something i have done. I did tell her that i don't believe she's having an affair, a sexual affair but that her actions are very inappropriate. And the sexual comments are inappropriate with anyone except me. If you read all my messages, i mentioned earlier that her best friend is male and she hangs out with him for hours when he comes to town. He's another good dude (pretty sure he's gay) and i have no problems with her taking time off work to spend the day with him. So she has male attention. I don't mind her talking to her cousin as much as she does. I don't mind her staying up all night to visit with him. The best way i can describe it is how a couple will embrace when they've been apart for weeks/months. First the long, head on his chest, eyes closed, hug. Then an inability to take her eyes off of him for hours. I literally wave my hand in front of her eyes while she gazes at him, and she doesn't flinch. She moves her head to peer over my hand to look at him. Like a trance. Nothing/noone else exists when he's in the room, and she paces around like a whipped puppy when he's not around, waiting for him to come over. And while she isn't hiding her texts from me....the handwritten letter is nowhere to be found. I suspect she took it to the office so it won't be found.

Seeing a grown ass mature woman melt into someones arms....seeing the facial expressions while texting him....becoming unrecognizable when shes around him as she puts on an eccentric over-the-top personality...looking through me and never taking her eyes off him when he's in the room...a willingness to make sexual innuendo's that otherwise are NEVER made. It's all too much.

Just what kind of sexual innuendos did you witness?

There are levels to what could be relatively innocent sexual jokes between cousins and what is inappropriate.

For example my female cousins and I meet about once or twice a year.

It happens sometimes they make "sexual " remarks, in a joking way that go beyond the usual "you look good/ I find you well". Some examples include "wow you are hot" or "I wish we weren’t cousins ". It’s "sexual " as it comes from a judgement of attractiveness from females towards a male, but it is also a joking banter (not a chance hopefully any of my female cousins sees me that way. It’s creepy af), a flattery towards a relative, not attraction.

I don’t feel comfortable with reciprocating that kind of jokes, the most I ever gave is "you became very pretty ".

I also hug and kiss my female cousins as any family member, but it’s a familiar hug from affection, not a sexually charged prolonged one. And the kisses are on the cheek, not in the mouth or worse obviously.

The physical connection you described seems a little too intimate for being appropriate, definitely beyond what I would ever be comfortable with my own related women.

As others said it’s not necessarily said they crossed "that line" but it’s also possible they are at least entertaining the fantasy of.

Sounds at least similar to an emotional affair. Maybe in this case more than "not just friends" is "not just cousins".

But it is is unsettling.

I don’t even want to know about my female cousins sexual life (hell I don’t want to know from my parents, siblings or male cousins either). Nor I want them to know about mine. Love and emotions? Yes, fine. Sex?

Get real, that’s disturbing.

Do they push the sexual jokes beyond that kind of flattery and into inappropriate land?

For context: My wife is very private when it comes to sex talk. She doesn't participate in the usual talk. She won't admit that she has sex (in private, we fuck like rabbits. She loves sex. Just doesn't want to talk about it). If i come to the rescue at her girls get-together with wine and snacks to keep their party going, her friends will say "your wife will pay you back later," to which my wife turns bright red and says "no i won't. Stop being gross." Now to answer your question....she and her cousin recently started using the term "blowjob" as a joke for everything. Anything good, tasty, fun...is a blowjob. So at the dinner table he would point at something and ask her to give him a blowjob. She would hand him said item and say "i hope you enjoy the blowjob i just gave you." Something else would happen and she would offer him a blowjob. Never the actual sexual act, but the term was used in excess of 100 times over a weekend. From a girl that has never said "blowjob" to her husband in 30 years b/c it's too embarrassing and gross to say. Then we play cornhole and she says "oh you put your sack in the hole good. Look at you, you're amazing and can hit the hole. Wow you don't even need to tap the board before sticking it in the hole, just straight in the hole." Over and over and over. She can't make these comments enough when he's around. Normally this wouldn't bother me, in fact i've asked her countless times to talk like that with me or when our friends are around and we are being silly and having fun. But she doesn't. She acts like we are just immature and gross and she would rather not talk like that. Until her cousin shows up....

Yeah, that’s a reeeeally weird running joke to have with a family member. WTF

Yeah, that’s a reeeeally weird running joke to have with a family member. WTF

That’s why I felt like asking.

Sawyer, this is possibly the most important piece of the puzzle to give perspective on just how inappropriate, how boundary crossing the situation is.

If my cousin would ever "joke" with me about "giving me a blowjob" or to any other family member, it would get an immediate reaction of "wtf did you just say?.".

I would be grossed out and I feel to speak for my entire family when I say they would be grossed out and pretty fucking angry at her.

I believe that will likely elicit similar feelings in other people.

Ffs, even writing it and imagining the scene in my mind grosses me out!

That.is.not.normal.

And she’s not exactly a nymphomaniac, she is rather shameful about sex from what you tell.

Red flags 🚩 are piling up.

Lets pretend it's not a cousin. Lets say it's a friend. It's still a really weird running joke, and inappropriate when you have a spouse, especially a spouse in the same room. A spouse that has requested that she let go and have fun and not be so uptight about sexual talk, yet has refused to talk sexy even to her spouse. Now throw in the looong, melt in your arms and bury her head in his chest hug. The facial expression when he walks in the room, or texts her. Not noticing anyone except him when he's around, and moping around when he's not there. Yea, all that and then to hear the blowjob jokes for hours. Now lets introduce him as cousin, not a friend. I can tell her friend to take a hike. Tell my wife to seize all contact with him. A cousin though, she can chalk it up to just having fun and letting loose for the weekend with no ill effects. As someone mentioned earlier, if it's a cousin she can assume there's no sexual intent. And i should ignore how inappropriate it is.

Lets pretend it's not a cousin. Lets say it's a friend.

Yes this would be a bigger problem AND I don't think she would see a (straight male typical friend) as a safe outlet like she sees her cousin. Gay male friend, probably. Just to hammer in the point I was making about a "safe outlet" that you dismissed with her other male friend she maintains appropriate boundaries with.

Friend, it’s inappropriate with any potential sexual partner, unless you’re single and teasing sexually each other.

The fact that he is her cousins just make it incestuous.

It’s an aggravating thing.

Yes this would be a bigger problem AND I don't think she would see a (straight male typical friend) as a safe outlet like she sees her cousin. Gay male friend, probably. Just to hammer in the point I was making about a "safe outlet" that you dismissed with her other male friend she maintains appropriate boundaries with.

She doesn’t speak that way with her female friends though, she is grossed out when they joke about sex. There’s no safer outlet that women sharing female’s jokes and sexual teasing within their group.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 8:24 PM, Tuesday, July 14th]

sawyer, if by some miracle, you can get her to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, I think it would help put all this in perspective. The book talks about a marriage as a house with windows and walls - i.e., that there are healthy boundaries that need to be respected to preserve the marriage, and windows to facilitate communication. It's been a while since I've read it, but I'm sure there are some good write-ups or videos about it if you don't want to read the book.

Having an "in joke" like the blowjob example with only this cousin is a pretty classic example of boundary crossing. It might seem harmless at first glance, but it isn't. Unfortunately, she's in denial. She's too caught up in the high of new relationship energy with this guy to be honest with herself, much less with you. I'm not sure what you can do to sober her up. Marriage counseling might work, but only if she comes to it with an open mind. She's just as likely to become angry and defensive, especially if the MC agrees with your assessment.

I'm also surprised that no one else commented on their behavior at dinner. Was it just the three of you that night?

There were a ton of people around. All family or significant others. They all thought it was hilarious b/c "those 2 are just so much alike. They really have a connection and it's great to see them so comfortable together after all these years of not seeing much of each other." I was outnumbered and clearly the only one with any emotional feelings regarding it. Noone else knew that i've tried to get her to relax and make silly sexual jokes, noone else felt betrayed. I excused myself and went to watch the game in the living room. When the cornhole thing happened, it was she/i/him/his brother. They saw it as silly, goofy, an extension of the blowjob comments the night before. I saw it as another instance in which she becomes someone i've asked her to be when she's around me, but only willing to do with him.

That makes me think the whole family is pretty fucked up.

Yes this is a judgement.