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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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MoreThanBroken posted 10/5/2018 14:16 PM

How I wish there was a "like" button for posts!
MTB, you win the internet today!

I agree that guilt/shame is a possible 3rd option, one that my wife has not indicated but it's certainly a possibility. We have had more discussions since this post and I think we understand each other better. Her actions will confirm that she actually understands, so we shall see.

onthefence123 posted 10/5/2018 19:01 PM

This question is for WSs involved in As with MAPs. Were you waiting for MAP to leave their BS so you two could be together? And if MAP never left BS once discovered, what happened in your M and/or your A?

EvolvingSoul posted 10/7/2018 19:20 PM

Hi there Humbled123

How could she lead such a double life so flawlessly? How in the world would someone ever trust someone that's so "good" at it? Can you give insight on how? I will add that i do believe in midlife crisis and the connection to foo issues. She was raped at 13 and molested several times.
You are assuming that one of those double lives was real and the other one was fake and that she had to keep up the fake one flawlessly. In my case, I led not just double, but triple, quadruple, n-tuple lives. None of them were quite real, rather I just showed bits and pieces of myself according to who I was interacting with. This was my normal deal and so it felt natural as breathing. In fact I could not really conceive of there being another way to be and think about things.

Thus, I didn't really see people as people. I saw them more as audience members for the performance and I was the character that I thought would most earn me applause, praise and validation from that audience.

It took me a pretty long time to figure that out and it was an important part of getting down to understanding my "why". Stopping playing roles and learning to be authentic was scary as hell. Learning about shame and vulnerability was a critical step of the brain rewire that has resulted in me living authentically. My quest for a long time I thought of as becoming a "real girl".

I don't know if that sort of thing is going on for your WS but it would not surprise me at all, especially given her history of sexual abuse.

Strength and healing to you from a still EvolvingSoul.

SweetCreamPie posted 10/7/2018 23:43 PM

My wife had sex with her AP several times per week for two years. She admitted to enjoying the sex. She admitted to having occasional romantic feelings for him. She admitted she liked him and enjoyed spending time with him. She said it was an escape. She said her affair was about fun and excitement. ( I think she also likes the attention of another man but she did not focus on this aspect )

She did not end her affair voluntarily. She was discovered at work and fired.

She is begging me to come home and work on staying married. She bribed me with our house and land to be given to me outside of our divorce agreement if I come home and work on our marriage for two years.

I loved her for the last 30plus years including the two years of the affair.

At first I was tending toward divorce.

Now I am tending toward giving it a shot with her.

If I go home to live with her I am always going to wonder if she thinks about him. Does she miss him ? Does she still want him sexually ? Does she still fantasize about him ?

Do WSs think about the APs forever after the affair if the affair was a friendly, sexually satisfying long term affair ? ( it is hard for me to imagine that she turns the whole affair around in her brain and says it was terrible and the sex was disgusting after a two year long relationship )

What do WSs think of when they look back on a friendly, occasionally romantic, sexually satisfying multi-year long affair ? How can I deal with those thoughts in my wife's brain ?

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 11:48 PM, October 7th (Sunday)]

SweetCreamPie posted 10/8/2018 14:04 PM

Waywards seem to have stopped answering questions on this thread on a daily basis

Lucky77 posted 10/8/2018 14:57 PM


We are HERE for you man. Don't sell us Waywards short.

I very much relate to your WS. During my A I was happy, the sex was pretty good and I enjoyed my time with the AP. I don't hate my AP now. I look back on my A actually fairly fondly in that I was not abducted by aliens into sleeping with a beast. She was fun. She was a good crazy.

I'm now one year NC with her. My goal will be to stay NC for the rest of my life. I'm with my W. I did not have a D-Day nor have I confessed. I don't think so much of my AP any more. I'm fully into my marriage now. The A is getting more and more in the rear view mirror.

Indeed there's been a ton of chatter about the really significant quantity of sex your W had with her AP. I did not have as much but my A might have been just as intense. We texted and wrote each other all the time. We grew really close. I've since shut the door on that chapter of my life though and am moving on. I actually don't think of AP during sex with W anymore.

So, for what its worth, here's one wayward that believes its not impossible for your W to be R material.

[This message edited by Lucky77 at 2:58 PM, October 8th (Monday)]

hikingout posted 10/8/2018 16:16 PM

More than broken,

I am glad that you all have made some progress. I do understand the importance of sexual healing after the A. I advocate for it on the boards often. My response was not to minimize your need for it but to highlight some aspects that are still obstacles to work through. I am glad she is doing IC and I think it would be helpful for you as well. I know what there litle kids are like much less having special needs mixed in would be a lot to navigate on itís own. I am truly rooting for and praying for your marriage. Take care.

SweetCreamPie posted 10/8/2018 16:55 PM


1a) Was the sex pretty good with both AP and BW ? 1b) Was the sex better with one or the other and if so then did sex with the other become a chore or a bore ??

2) You said "I don't think so much of my AP any more". Does this mean quantitatively or qualitatively ? I mean do you spend less time thinking of her or do you now think less of her as a person since she was screwing a married man ?

3) Thinking of your AP during sex with you wife is brutal.

[This message edited by SweetCreamPie at 4:57 PM, October 8th (Monday)]

ff4152 posted 10/8/2018 18:59 PM


She bribed me with our house and land to be given to me outside of our divorce agreement if I come home and work on our marriage for two years.

I find this statement to be VERY TROUBLING
. This says to me that you were a least partially to blame for the affair. I do see the allure of having a post nup but is it even enforceable where you live?

In response to some of your originally questions, my A was approximately 5 years long. I ended it 2 years ago and also have not had a dday. I can say without reservation that I do not miss the AP or anything about her or the "relationship" we had. The AP herself evokes no emotion at all from me; I don't love her, miss her, hate her, nothing. I have reached a blessed state of meh and don't see that ever changing.

The only sex act that occurred was her giving me oral (we kissed if that counts). The funny thing is, this is something my wife rarely ever does. As such, she is not very skilled at it. The AP OTOH was an expert at it. You know which one I prefer? My wife. I can distinctly remember that, even during the affair, that I always felt a little bit slimy after the AP finished.

So from that perspective, I can definitely say it is possible for a WS to completely disengage themselves from their AP. I don't miss anything at all about my AP, I never think of her during sex with my wife and I don't waste any headspace on her at all. The only real time that she is brought into any kind of focus is while on SI. Other than that, she could be living on Pluto for all I care.

I guess I am wondering if you thing you could ever get past this? I know how awful infidelity is on both sides of the equation. As a BS, the betrayal can be like acid on your soul. Is your love for your wife enough to see you through this? Is the price of your house and land sufficient enough motivation to keep you around?

IMO, it all comes down to one question: Do you think you can at some point, say 5 years from now, reach an accommodation with the affair? Do you think you'll be able to get past the pain enough to be able to love and trust her again? Obviously this is not something that can be easily answered. But I think it's vital in order to know whether your marriage will survive or should be scuttled.

SweetCreamPie posted 10/8/2018 19:19 PM


The BS is never responsible for the cheaters adultery.

ff4152 posted 10/8/2018 19:25 PM


My apologies because you might have misinterpreted what I meant in my post. I definitely wasnít implying that you were responsible in any way. I was trying to say that she making that offer to you using that kind of wording made me feel that she was implying you were somehow partially responsible for the A.

You most certainly were not. Thatís all on her.

EvolvingSoul posted 10/8/2018 19:44 PM

Hi there SweetCreamPie,

I don't think you are appreciating how much the choices that waywards make has nothing to do with you or with AP. It has to do with how we relate to ourselves. I know that is hard to grasp but at least in my case it was absolutely true.

it is hard for me to imagine that she turns the whole affair around in her brain and says it was terrible and the sex was disgusting after a two year long relationship
And yet it can happen. How I relate to those memories has changed dramatically because how I relate to myself has changed dramatically. During the affair on the surface I thought I was special (so it's okay if I want to have the security of BS and some fun and excitement with AP on the side) but deep down I thought I was worth nothing and I had long ago broken my relationship with the emotion of disgust. That meant I could behave in some pretty disgusting ways and not have the emotional cues that should have deterred me. These many years and a lot of brain-rewiring later, I do in fact cringe when those memories come up. I feel regret and remorse and disgust and sorrow for who I was and what I did to myself and to BS and even to AP.

It took me a very long time to fix my relationship with me. If I hadn't, I don't doubt that I would have gone on having fond, bittersweet memories of the time I spent with AP. If your WS is willing to do the work to figure out how and why her relationship with herself is broken and then do the work to rewire her brain, it might be a worth a shot. Not every WS is willing to do the work. And even if they are, not every BS is willing or able to wait around for them to do it. Only you can make that call.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

Best to you from this EvolvingSoul.

WilliamM posted 10/8/2018 20:09 PM

You said something that caught my attention.

I feel regret and remorse and disgust and sorrow for who I was and what I did to myself and to BS and even to AP.

I know I am a BS so it is coming from there but apart for disgust, explain feeling regret and remorse for AP?

[This message edited by WilliamM at 8:12 PM, October 8th (Monday)]

SweetCreamPie posted 10/8/2018 21:21 PM


You know much more about affair recovery than I do since I am new to this process. I will take your word for it that a WS can look back at an affair and change their mind about the AP and even the quality of sex occurring in the affair relationship but I bet this process takes a long time. I don't know if I want to spend the years it will take for her to see her affair differently.

I don't know why but the competitive aspects of the affair hurt me the most right now. I am especially hurt by the possibility that she desired her AP more than me and had better sex with him than me. I am also obsessing about his penis size vs my penis size. Perhaps I am just a competitive male and don't want to be second fiddle to another man via my wife.

I don't understand all the thoughts and feelings yet.

Lucky77 posted 10/9/2018 04:32 AM


The sex with AP was titillating for a while. Being able to play with new equipment was fun. After a while it simply became mechanical and a bit routine. The A is so full of the Fog....I was a bit fascinated by what I thought was magic p**sy. There's a thrill in discovering new vs the old. There is no magic p**sy. I thought I was some kind of polygamist. The new becomes old. The fog wears off. The need or want for a secret GF wanes. You realize its all BS.

You said "I don't think so much of my AP any more". Does this mean quantitatively or qualitatively ? I mean do you spend less time thinking of her or do you now think less of her as a person since she was screwing a married man ?

Quantitative to answer your question.
She had me so sold that her H was a total POS that he never entered my mind. I did not consider myself as a marriage attacker.

Estirpe posted 10/11/2018 17:33 PM

Thanks again for all the honest answers you guys provide.

I have a question: How and when you realize that you should not control the outcome and really came clean with sexual details your Bs wanted to know, sexual acts you were lying about since Dday but they seem kind of logical to do at that time, my Ws keeps affirming things like oral sex either way never took place, AP never ejaculated inside of her along some other irrational events.

ThisIsSoLonely posted 10/12/2018 15:06 PM

Question for waywards regarding shame.

My WH has come clean as much as I want to know. We have talked, calmly and rationally with no name calling or nastiness, and I can tell he needs a break from my conversations but he keeps listening because he feels like he needs to for me and has answered every question Iíve had even when it hurts me and makes him feel horrible. He has said over and over again he needs to do this for me and that he is so upset heís hurt me so badly and never wants to again...and I have not told him we will move to R but I have said I will give it a few months and see how I feel.

When I am talking especially in the beginning he has a very blank stare and looks almost angry but he says nothing. Itís almost like heís frozen and strangely (to me) while he has said he does not want me to go and says that ďI love youĒ from time to time, he canít seem to actually say much of anything in terms of looking me in the eyes and saying ďIím sorry and Iím going to do anything to keep youĒ or ďyou are so important to me...Ē yet heís doing everything I ask including going to IC which I thought was impossible. When I ask him why he is so quiet he says he is still trying to process all of this and that he feels like he is a horrible person and he canít believe that I havenít ďkilledĒ him at this point.

So my question, after reading an article about menís shame in infidelity is: did you ever feel so overcome with guilt and shame that you were unable to effectively communicate with your spouse? Did you feel undeserving of them or did it all come flooding out of you in a stream of apologies etc?

Iíve told him itís a Herculean task for me to even be there with him and that I need to hear how he feels about ME and while upon direct questioning he will answer he just seems so caught up in his self disgust heís frozen or something.

Sayuwontletgo posted 10/12/2018 16:22 PM

TISL, I feel like I was in a very similar situation. When my BH would talk to me I wanted nothing more than to get what he was trying to convey but sometimes it took me a day or so to wrap my head around it. Thereís so much to process in the beginning and I process things much differently than my H. We found a free boot camp that helped a lot and one of the things it mentioned was forced marathoning. Iím not saying you are trying to purposely get him to overload but he may be there non the less. This process is overwhelming and it sounds like he doesnít want to disengage so I would guess heís at his limits. This doesnít mean you need to pacify or diminish what you say to him but maybe think about taking a 15 min break when he gets the ďglossed overĒ look then come back to it. In my own experience this helped tremendously, BH didnít feel shut down, I got to regroup and come back at it fully focused.

SweetCreamPie posted 10/13/2018 11:16 AM


Do you ever see your BSs as weak for staying in the relationship after Dday ?

Lorisa posted 10/13/2018 11:17 AM

Iíve experienced the same thing with my wh, the glossed over look when talking about the affair. I would look at him and think what is he thinking about? He has a very difficult time talking about the affair and answering my questions. 1.5 year post DDay and he is still somewhat defensive upon talking about it. Then it is almost like he is shutting down and has this blank stare. Shame? Guilt?

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