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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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hatefulnow posted 8/30/2018 15:53 PM

Hikingout,

Thanks for your input. It's a lot of little things, subtle, easily explainable individually but when taken as a whole...well I get confused and concerned.

Sex is maybe the most prominent issue. at least for me. Our sex life is good...really good, but it gets diminished by her seeming to not be enthusiastic or having 'forced' enthusiasm. Objectively, we're like teenagers. Subjectively, well, I feel like something's missing.

I got to see her and POSOM on a thumb drive she bought for him, which according to her he was going to use to store emails, chats, GIFs, etc, so his wife wouldn't see. When things started to unravel she went to his place (his meeting spot for her...and other women she would find out later) to retrieve it. She was mortified that he secretly recorded them together and saved it. Even more so that I saw them.

I still shake when I think about it. I forced myself to watch, because I loved her but wanted to hate her (hence my user name) and she just seemed more 'into' things with him than with me. Even things we were doing already.

So I am interested in why it seemed so easy for them and feels forced for us. She says I turn her on (thank you infidelity diet), she sees lots of women giving me glances and little flirtations, which I generally ignore, or just say 'thank you' and keep it moving. I could easily get someone else, but I choose her.

It's other stuff too. For example, I would ask her , pre-affair to run errands for me or pick something up at the store or what ever. If she did it, it was like an after thought and like I was asking her to do the labors of Hercules and she deserved a medal. But for OM there seemed to be no issue doing stuff (even non-sexual)no matter how great or small. I've spoken about this to her. She stepped up, but again, why do I feel a sense of artificiality.

I've spoken to my IC about this in case I'm projecting. I'm working on thi8ngs from my end.

I'm really interested in knowing from Waywards, especially women, if you faced our dilemma of her seeming put upon and how it was handled.

Thanks in advance.

[This message edited by hatefulnow at 3:55 PM, August 30th (Thursday)]

hikingout posted 8/30/2018 20:58 PM

Let me put this to you another way.

The post I referenced ws meant to explain that during the affair, everything is fantasy. And I donít mean that in the positive way people think of fantasy. Nothing is real. In many ways we are only manipulating the AP. We are escalating it to keep upping the game of making them think we are great. They are doing the same thing. The more they do it the more it encourages us to push limits further. What you witnessed is not sustainable. You are comparing your real and genuine relationship to something completely artificial.

The person she was manufacturing for was more than likely the AP. If you go back and look there are concepts here...projecting and mirroring. There is a lot of manipulation and brain washing. Reality is suspended. This is why a lot of people come here and say their significant other gave the ap porn star sex. You do realize porn star sex is fake. A womanís sexuality can be wild, sure but it doesnít look like that.

In real life, when a woman is genuine in bed, there are often things she prefers or behaves that is nothing like porn. I am not trying to woman solain ya but even women on this site say things like ď i get quiet when itís getting goodĒ ď or ďI have an orgasm easier if my legs are straightĒ. I read both those statements here is this forum in this week alone.

So, if I were going to try and impress a man- what am I going to do? Be myself? Probably not. Probably I am gonna fall all over him like his junk is magic. That isnít real.

Now do people women sometimes have amazing sex during an affair? Yes, I am sure some do. But a lot are like I was, I just wanted him to like me more, think I was even more awesome. Reality? No orgasm, not even close.

I donít say any of that to minimize how disgusting what I did was. But when I am with my husband, I am genuinely me. He gets my okay days when I am tired or just wrong in my hormonal phases and he gets my best. And like you guys we have been having sex frequently, which means I a probably not going to have n orgasm every time. But I enjoybwhat we do together and it still feels good.

I honestly think seeing that video (which is horrible and I am so sorry) has made you think you are missing something. But in reality you may just in fact have the real deal and he only got someone trying to impress him. Thatís what I think. And maybe I should have given you that preamble before referencing the other post.

For me, I was desperate for validation. The sex was transactional for that. Itís not a conscious thing I did but in hindsight itís quite clear. I was playing a role so he saw me a certain way, nothing was authentic. I donít know if that helps more?

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:00 PM, August 30th (Thursday)]

mindfullness posted 8/31/2018 11:18 AM

Going back to martial counseling with my WH after a 10 month break. When I ask him why he cheated over a year and half later and with 10 months of martial counseling he is still saying it was because he wasn't happy and felt neglected. I felt that way as well, but I didn't choose the unhealthy coping mechanisms of drinking and cheating. I chose the unhealthy coping mechanisms of being the queen of the silent treatment and freezing him out. I dug deep and discovered those behaviors went back to my teen years and my relationship with my mother. I used those behaviors for power and control. I didn't feel like I had either in my marriage consequently I went back to immature behaviors I used successfully in the past. Now when I feel out of control or powerless I have healthy and mature coping strategies that aren't toxic to my marriage. Our marriage is 1000 times better than it was. We are communicating, enjoying each other and I can't imagine not being with him, but I still don't feel safe because he doesn't understand the underlying reasons for his unhealthy behaviors. He will not go to IC so it has to be dealt with in couples counseling. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to bring this topic up in a way he won't feel so defensive and threaten? He is in a healthier frame of mind going into counseling this time around so I am hopeful.

hatefulnow posted 8/31/2018 14:38 PM

Hikingout,

Thanks again for your wise commentary. I think I may be projecting, as my IC says. He echoed much of what you said. It makes perfect sense on an intellectual level. It's just I have this nagging feeling that I may still be being manipulated.

Don't get me wrong. My XWW is a wonderful person. She put up with a LOT of crap from me due to the fallout of her affair. I was a real SOB to her. She literally could have had me taken out of the house or even jailed.

I never did any physical violence to her (she is the mother of my kids), but the verbal stuff in context could have justified her calling the cops. No one would have blamed her.

She didn't. She just took it, like waves in the ocean washing over her. Now, in many ways we are greater than ever. I recognize and appreciate that. But the feeling remains.

You're also correct in that she may have been trying to impress him somehow. Prick never impressed me, except with how far he punk'd out after I set about turning his life into a pile of doggie doo (which to this day gives me no end of satisfaction).

But, to a woman, especially someone like my X, who was sheltered and raised in a strict environment, I can see the appeal. He was big, strong, athletic, alpha (at least on the outside), had money, rugged looks, etc. She had a crush on him since her teens, but he never had any interest...until he found out she was with me. So I guess she had this fantasy in her head all these years.

Even though he is out of the picture and last I heard he living in a room somewhere (his wife took him to the cleaners. I almost feel sorry for the guy...almost ), it still gets me that he was a factor in our relationship for most of it. One about which I knew nothing.

Yes, I'd like the enthusiasm and energy I saw her give with him, but genuinely. Not affected.

So I ask, to you and any other WWs out there, after discovery, if your spouse felt 'short changed' so to speak and how did he cope?

Marcy70 posted 8/31/2018 15:39 PM

What books/pod casts etc etc, helped you the most?
What helped you to understand your BS most?
Was there any resource that helped your BS understand your feelings and how to deal with them?

BrainFreeze,
Something that helped both my husband and I understand the other personís thought processes was the Healing Broken Trust podcast. I highly recommend it.

GoldenR posted 9/1/2018 15:19 PM

My question is something that I've always wondered about with regards to my own XWW...

For those of you that were in an A (not ONS), what was your endgame? I know the standard answer is you didn't have one. But you had to think about it from time to time.

Darkness Falls posted 9/1/2018 15:48 PM

GoldenR,

The majority of the A save for about a week prior to d-day I was trying to figure out how to leave my H for the OM without making myself look bad, hurting his feelings more than necessary, or making it known there was an A. I was a total coward and obviously not too bright because I got caught after all.

dolly111 posted 9/2/2018 05:03 AM

My husband and I have been reconciled for 2 years now and it is going very well. But I'm curious about something that I just don't get. My husband loved the other woman in a head over heels way. Within 2 months they were discussing marriage, so the relationship was very intense. To him at the time, they had a very adventurous, whirlwind affair. Reality was, they never left the sofa! It was all talk, with both representing themselves as something that they would like to be. For those of you who had a similar situation, how do you view the OW or OM now?

Brennan87 posted 9/2/2018 08:20 AM

During a discussion last night on guilt/shame, my WW indicated she didn't have guilt or shame about what she was doing to me, our children and the APs family.
She was a selfish headspace and her guilt/shame was all internal about her previous traumas and how she was betraying her own morals and integrity, but none for us.

I just can't wrap my head around this, WS, did any of you feel this way as well? Is this normal for a WS to not have a shred of guilt about AP what was being done to those you loved and those that loved the AP?
Or am I just married to a complete sociopath NPD?

Darkness Falls posted 9/2/2018 08:41 AM

The AP didnít have a partner or family so n/a on that end.

As for my H, my AP felt no guilt. He felt I wouldnít be with him if things were great at home, that any problems the marriage had certainly must not be all mine to own, and that ďkeepingĒ his wife was my Hís own responsibility.

I felt very, very little guilt towards my H during the affair. I really truly believed at the time that ďwhat he doesnít know canít hurt him.Ē I didnít feel significant guilt until d-day.

Prickly posted 9/2/2018 08:56 AM

Hi there, WH says he believed I no longer loved him and that our marriage was essentially over and headed toward divorce (that was news to me after d-day).

Iím curious if any other WH felt/thought this way and if so, why hide the A? If in your mind our relationship was dead what was the point in lying and going behind your spouseís back? If he honestly believed I didnít give a shit about him there would be no point in lying because I wouldnít have given a shit if thatís what he believed.

This is one of the many things that baffles me. Any insight on this would be fantastic! Thanks!

MrsWalloped posted 9/2/2018 11:29 AM

But you had to think about it from time to time.

No I didnít. Not even a little bit. We never talked about a future together and it never crossed my mind. My BH even had that as one of the questions on the polygraph test I took and I said no. The test showed that I was telling the truth (or not lying).

Youíre trying to put a logical spin on something that for me wasnít logical. Thinking about a future would have been an intrusion of my fantasy into my real life. It wasnít like that. It was totally an in the moment thing. I reveled in the moment and how it made me feel. That was it.

Wenda posted 9/3/2018 02:25 AM

Hi WW spouses. Did any of you tell your wife/husband that you did not have sex, but you did? If so, why? And if you did lie, how can you live with knowing that your partner thinks you have been faithful when you have not? Is it all just about you? Or are you worried how they will see you? No judgement here.

Lucky77 posted 9/3/2018 06:01 AM

Hi GoldenR,

For those of you that were in an A (not ONS), what was your endgame? I know the standard answer is you didn't have one. But you had to think about it from time to time

My A lasted a few years. It was full of drama. EA & PA. It was intense but then after a while I saw it as evil and would push away. I would always go back though. ďThe FogĒ was too thick. I was addicted. Had to have my ego kibble drug hit. That really made the A a day-to-day deal. We never really knew what tomorrow would bring. Rather than calling it an LTA I thought of it as hundreds of daily Aís. Never knowing where it would go. Not sure where it would end. Some how justifying that two was better than one. That I could maintain a side chick and her a secret BF. The logistics and finances of starting a real life with AP never seemed possible. I was never interested in leaving W.

jessb115258 posted 9/3/2018 13:12 PM

My questions to WS...why cheat a second time years later after seeing and experiencing the pain it causes the BS and putting in the reconciliation effort? Why throw away all that work?

Why choose to cheat with someone close to the family like a son or daughterís friendís parent? Itís an even bigger betrayal and kids unfairly have to deal with the fallout.

Barregirl posted 9/3/2018 15:10 PM

Jess, I think a WS who cheats a second time is one that never truly did the work to learn empathy and to be a safe spouse. R only exists with a real urge to change and grow. A WS can go through the motions of "doing the work" without truly digging deep down and altering their thought processes. In a case like that, a WS might still be entitled enough to cheat a second time. And so they never truly did the work of R, therefore did not exert any effort to waste. A WS who truly does the work to earn R is not likely to throw it all away. Part of the doing the work is learning to live an authentic life of integrity. Once learned, why go back?

GoldenR posted 9/3/2018 20:00 PM

Mrs W -

So...you were just going to keep the A going forever? I mean, I get that you never considered a future with him, but you also never had thoughts like, "Geez, I should stop this soon".

GoldenR posted 9/3/2018 20:05 PM

I need to tell my daughters to stop telling me about their conversations with their mom (aka XWW).

MoreThanBroken posted 9/3/2018 21:22 PM

Two questions on my mind:
1) Do you consider the "change" you undergo during R a form of groveling? Or did you feel like that's what your SO was asking of you

2) Do you feel like there's a certain amount of time before you can return to pre-A mannerisms, i.e. be defensive during fights, not apologize, focus on prioritizing your wants over you SO & family?

CatLou posted 9/3/2018 21:32 PM

Question: Are there really major parts of the A that a WS can't remember? Or is that just a defense mechanism?

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