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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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islesguy posted 7/27/2018 07:26 AM

MoreThanBroken,

Is it hard to look at pictures around the time of the affair and not be immediately reminded of the affair?

The first thing that goes through my head with every picture or memory from the past is where was this on the timeline. I find myself reflecting on the time, thinking about who I was and where I was mentally at that time, and more and more often censoring myself and not verbalizing the memory because I know my BS will have the same or likely a much larger reaction with the thoughts of the timeline. Whether the memory or photo was before the betrayals were known or not doesn't matter because in my head they are all immediately related to it no matter where they exist on the timeline of my relationship.

Darkness Falls posted 7/27/2018 09:05 AM

- If your A was heading toward exit A territory, but was discovered before you felt confident enough to leave, how hard was it to stay?

I didn’t have the option to stay—my husband divorced me right away. But hypothetically, it might have been moderately hard to stay. No way of knowing though.

- If your spouse was, in fact, Plan B, but a relationship with the AP wasn't going to work out after all, do you ever have regrets about staying? Does your BS struggle with this knowledge and if so, how has it affected your R?

I don’t know if the relationship would have worked out; I chose not to try—I occasionally have regrets about THAT. My husband and I remarried; I have no idea what he still struggles with as he doesn’t ever talk about it. Lack of communication affects our R but less as time goes on because I’ve extinguished my expectations.

Shocked123 posted 7/27/2018 11:21 AM

islesguy,I look at pictures from the past 10 or more years and wonder what he was thinking. Did he simply pose with the family or myself as a prop? Was that a real smile? Did he smile and count the days until his next hand/blowjob at the massage parlour?
What do WH's think when they are with their family/wife. Is it an eye-roll event? Something like, ok, let's get this over with and tomorrow I'll go see the Asian lady who will make it all bearable?
Thanks for you input. I love your insight.

Marcy70 posted 7/27/2018 13:51 PM

Is it hard to look at pictures around the time of the affair and not be immediately reminded of the affair?

Yes it is difficult to see pictures, and family videos or to even talk about memories from 2009-2010. Dday was 6/4/09. However, I have trouble with looking back at memories from other times too. There were other EA’s before the one in 2009 where I got caught. And besides infidelity, there was other behavior in the marriage that I am ashamed of. I was never a good wife. There is really not much to look back on with any kind of pride or happiness. I feel like I am a good wife now. I certainly work hard at it. But that is a relatively new thing.

This is hard for my husband too. We have been married almost 24 years, and he feels like the first 20 of that (approx) was a lie.

Chaos posted 7/27/2018 14:02 PM

Yes! The pictures. They haunt me.

During the LTA I see pictures of happy people and my heart aches knowing it was a lie. WH says that the happiness was real. I can't look at 3 years of pictures without crying.

WS - what do you see, think and feel when you see seemingly happy family/couples photos of you and your BS?

Marcy70 posted 7/27/2018 14:03 PM

slesguy,I look at pictures from the past 10 or more years and wonder what he was thinking. Did he simply pose with the family or myself as a prop? Was that a real smile? Did he smile and count the days until his next hand/blowjob at the massage parlour?
What do WH's think when they are with their family/wife. Is it an eye-roll event? Something like, ok, let's get this over with and tomorrow I'll go see the Asian lady who will make it all bearable?

This was addressed to isles, but I hope you won’t mind if I give my 2 cents too.
From my own perspective, spending time with the family was not an eye roll or unbearable. With me and many other wayward types, there was a lot, ALOT, of compartmentalization going on. I could enjoy a road trip or dinner out with the family or my husband without really thinking about the other person. And vice versa—I could sex chat on Facebook without thinking about my husband. There was a lot of cake eating—I wanted to stay married but wanted the extra ego kibbles, attention, validation too.

Estirpe posted 7/27/2018 18:54 PM

This is the part that most male Bs have a problem understating, I would say 99.99 % of us can deal with the I love you's but the moment that you gave your body away is where we have a problem.

For WWs
I am sure after Dday you told your Bs that sex with him was the goods and that they know your body, it is real intimacy, etc.
Most of the WWs here have posted they were not in the affair for the sex, if sex with OM was not that satisfactory and you didn't enjoy it yet you gave it to him in exchange for the validation and ego kibbles why you denied the sex to your husband or didn't initiate often during your affair if your sexual needs were not met with OM?

islesguy posted 7/28/2018 00:22 AM

Shocked123,

I can't speak for your WH but I never felt like I was a betrayer even though I was because I was able to rationalize and minimize. I cheated when I was in college well because I was drunk living away from my girl friend and everyone else was cheating and since I wasn't having sex it was just college hi-jinx, well that is what I told myself anyway. I looked at porn because everyone did and it wasn't cheating anyway, it was just watching videos, again this is what I told myself. I went to strip clubs with my coworkers because that is what the guys did on business trips, it was this way before I joined the company and they were all married so it wasn't a big deal, but I certainly didn't tell my wife. Lap dances were just an act by the stripper and part of the show, and again all the guys had them. Honestly, I had 2 and they were very uncomfortable as I felt like at any moment one of the bouncers who were watching everything was going to come over and kick my ass or something. But, I didn't think of them as cheating until my wife pointed out the obvious fact that there was a naked woman on my lap simulating sex. Yes, I was out on the dance floor with a coworker and we were dancing sexually, but it was just goofing around and making out with her was a terrible drunken mistake that I regretted immediately. I knew I had crossed the line with this betrayal but again rationalized it blaming alcohol. The 3 month EA that followed which included sexual innuendo was just talk and how could just talking be wrong. This is a synopsis of the way the WH's mind works or at least how mine did. So, I didn't relate any of this when I sat down to celebrate my anniversary with my wife. I wasn't faking anything, I just wasn't seeing myself and my actions for what they were. I hope this makes sense and also hope I made it clear that all of those minimizations and rationalizations that I included above are in the past, I can see myself and my actions for what they truly were now and could never excuse myself for these things again.

Shocked123 posted 7/28/2018 10:58 AM

Marcy, you and anyone else is always welcome to provide feedback of course and thank you for yor thoughts.
Isleguy, I do understand your rationalization a little more however, could you honestly say that someone could rationalize over 10 years of seeking Asian massage parlours both in China as well as 5-6 regular women to visit for massage and happy endings back at home? Do you think that someone could actually compartamentalize all those years and hundreds of encounters? This has to have something to do about the way you felt about your wife, Isleguy. There has to be somehting that leads you to such escalating and repetitive behaviour.

earlydetour posted 7/28/2018 23:06 PM

I wasn't faking anything, I just wasn't seeing myself and my actions for what they were.
This is what I dealt with for a long time. For those WS that had EA's, what do you think got you out of denial about your words and actions?

islesguy posted 7/29/2018 00:30 AM

Shocked123,

could you honestly say that someone could rationalize over 10 years of seeking Asian massage parlours both in China as well as 5-6 regular women to visit for massage and happy endings back at home?

Let me preface this by saying that in no way would I ever think of a happy ending as not cheating but my boundaries of flirting and strip clubs were not where they should have been. So, either your husband had so poor of boundaries that he could have believed that some how this wasn't cheating or he just didn't care that he was cheating, or perhaps a little of each.

I have done a lot of thinking about how many things I took liberties with when it comes to my relationship with my wife and the betrayals and have learned so much about myself. I know I have been an objectifier of women my entire life, I have had issues with sex and expectations from my wife and believe this affected my actions both consciously in the way I treated her and subconsciously in the way I acted when I was betraying her. I agree that my actions reflect the way I felt about my wife but not because of who she is but because she was a female and the way I looked at and treated women in general.

islesguy posted 7/29/2018 00:34 AM

earlydetour,

For those WS that had EA's, what do you think got you out of denial about your words and actions?
It took years for me get out of denial and I know it happened when I wrote out some of the things I said to the OW and how those sexual innuendos played out. Seeing it on paper and how disgusting it was reading it back really set as to how wrong it was to be saying those things to another woman.

Chaos posted 7/29/2018 12:18 PM

For those who never planned to leave your M -

What did you think every time you came home and looked at your BS? Especially knowing they had no idea?


For those in R -

What do you think of now every time you look at your BS?

Darkness Falls posted 7/29/2018 14:14 PM

What do you think of now every time you look at your BS?

Whatever is going on at the time. Our kids, our family, what's for dinner, what we're going to do on our day off, whatever is relevant to the current goings-on.

I'm 8 1/2 years out so 99 times out of 100 I don't think about anything having to do with the affair when I see him.

Shocked123 posted 7/29/2018 20:14 PM

Thanks Islesguy, I will open the discussion with my BS. Did he actually believe this behaviour was not cheating? Pretty sure we've had it and he did feel that it wasn't really cheating at the time because so many business men are treated to these services when traveling to Asia. It is commonplace. Strange customs in some of these countries.....
There is also a possibility that he was fully aware that this was wrong, especially when he brought home his nasty habit back home and continued for several years when he was caught. I think he was fully aware and really didn't give a crap because he thought he would never get caught and felt he deserved it. Worse than that is I feel he withheld sex from me as a punishment for his unhappiness in the marriage. He treated himself to an open marriage without my knowledge when he knew full well that I desired him and attempted to initiate sex on a regular basis.
Sorry, but there is something very wrong with your marriage when you do this to the person you "love" for over 10 years, compartmentalize all you want. you have to look at yourself in the mirror at some point and say "what the heck am I doing?"

islesguy posted 7/30/2018 08:53 AM

Chaos,

What did you think every time you came home and looked at your BS? Especially knowing they had no idea?

I had rationalized things so much that for the most part I didn't have the guilt. For example even though I knew my BS didn't want me to go to a strip club because I had justified it in my own screwed up mind I didn't feel the guilt. This was true of my time during the EA as well. There were a few times where I had guilt because I knew I was out of bounds or specifically did something that I knew I shouldn't have. In these cases I just tried not to think about it and compartmentalized it.

Estirpe posted 7/30/2018 10:06 AM

Thanks Ladies for all the answers and helping us understand this mess

Length of the affair
Why lie about if you did?
My wife says it started in Dec talking about them and the I like yous and all that, when I go back to the texts I sent my wife every day I see by the wording I used those 2 months prior to Dec. I knew something was off, she swears is Dec, my gut tells me it started mid September-October
She says October, November they talk like friends, showing family pictures, what they did on the weekend, things like that.

My guess is that she is scared that I will assume that more sex happened which is obvious

[This message edited by Estirpe at 10:07 AM, July 30th (Monday)]

Lucky77 posted 7/30/2018 14:26 PM

Hi Chaos,

For those who never planned to leave your M - What did you think every time you came home and looked at your BS? Especially knowing they had no idea?

I linked up with my AP during work related road trips. When I returned home I was on top of the world. Feeling like I was some kind of polygamist being able to juggle two because of course two is better than one until its not. I felt a warped sense of victory that I pulled one over on my W due to my extreme talents of having a work W and a home W.

islesguy posted 7/31/2018 00:03 AM

Estirpe,

She is probably minimizing out of an illogical fear that it will some how make it worse if it was actually longer or there was more sex. I did this as well and know that it was purposely minimizing to try to make the bad behavior more acceptable to my BS (in my mind, in reality, you can't undo or unbreak something). This was something that I did prior to dday as well, minimizing how much I drank or how late I was out for example. It is a very bad habit to get into and likely existed in other areas as well and is often used because it has been successful in smoothing over other things in the past. It was this way for me with my Mother when I was growing up and with my BS.

hikingout posted 7/31/2018 09:16 AM

or those who never planned to leave your M -
What did you think every time you came home and looked at your BS? Especially knowing they had no idea?

For those in R -
What do you think of now every time you look at your BS?

Hi Chaos,

I wasn't in the physical presence of the AP that much, but in constant texting contact. I know this is the overused answer - but I compartmentalized. When I was with my H, I was with him and I wasn't so much thinking about the AP or anything like that and vice versa. The few times that I did any cross thinking I would get emotional and cry but not be able to understand why. I would tell myself it was because of xy or z in that moment, but I can now look back and know that it wasn't that at all.

When I look at my BH now - I think "you were such an idiot to do all these things to this man. He didn't deserve any of it", I think "I just really love him so much, I wish I could take his pain away". I think about how handsome he is, how smart and generous he is, and how I don't deserve him and how I can become a woman who deserves him. I see how strong he is, what a good man he is, how I threw away so much and how I hope that we can get it back and more.

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