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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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hikingout posted 7/16/2018 12:49 PM

Harry -

I think you realize this is different for everyone. It sounds like it might be improving? Like going from thinking about him all the time to maybe a "every couple of weeks" thing? Basing that on a description from your post. So, it's gotten a lot better from in the beginning, that's progress.


I think sometimes it depends on how long the relationship was. I have read it takes about twice the time you were in one to let it fully go. I don't know if that's true, but my A was 2 months long and I think by 4 or 5 months in I knew what I had been living wasn't real, it was a fantasy. I had projected who I wanted him to be onto him rather than really seeing him for who he was. It sounds like she is at the stage that her logic is fighting her emotions. That's progress.


For me, one of the hardest things to admit to myself was that I wasn't in love with him, and it wasn't a special connection. It was hard because it was admitting I threw my life away as I knew it over a little bit of nothing. So, part of me wanted to grasp at it as special because otherwise what was it all for?


Another hurdle is to get to the place where your empathy and remorse is so solid with your spouse that you really can see the AP as the enemy that hurt your spouse. You don't want to believe you were so stupid and that you gave yourself to someone who was not at all sincere. But good people who are sincere do not go around sleeping with other men's wives.


To me, the remorse has come in as a gradient, but the more that she can connect with you and feel empathy the more that will grow.


I did not grieve the AP in front of my husband. I don't think he would have accepted it. I have sometimes wondered if his non-acceptance helped me move along further. (A little external pressure). Seems like to me that you might want to detach from that part more, read up on the 180. If she feels that you are accepting it or helping her through it she won't have the motivation needed to do the other work here...figuring out her whys, how her boundaries came down, accepting what she did as 150% wrong, etc. Your role as the BS in reconciliation would be to heal some, and hers is to fix her shit and help you heal. Until you all can take those roles properly I think you should consider yourself in recovery rather than reconciliation. And, until you are in reconciliation, you don't need to be bringing your walls down and healing because she won't be safe enough to do that with yet. Is the AP married? Does the other spouse know?

Shocked123 posted 7/16/2018 13:00 PM

Any male WS out there that cheated in massage parlours? Still trying to figure out why my husband would turn to such people instead of his willing and able wife!
What is so good about these women and their services that he would risk his marriage over them?
We are trying to reconcile but I just cant get the images of him received hand jobs and oral sex from strange women!
Anyone willing to share what goes on in these places?
He did this for over 10 years....
I'm devastated.

HarryChicago posted 7/16/2018 13:26 PM

@hiking

Thanks so much for your response.

It was hard because it was admitting I threw my life away as I knew it over a little bit of nothing.

I think she may be starting to peek at this before it hurts too much and she runs away.

Another hurdle is to get to the place where your empathy and remorse is so solid with your spouse that you really can see the AP as the enemy that hurt your spouse. You don't want to believe you were so stupid and that you gave yourself to someone who was not at all sincere.

THIS. She's not there yet. It sucks for me. I can't understand how on one hand she feels such shame about what happened and the pain she caused me....Yet on the other hand, she still feels fondness towards the very thing that has caused such soul-crushing grief. It makes no sense to me and as a result I wonder if she's being real with me.

Seems like to me that you might want to detach from that part more, read up on the 180. If she feels that you are accepting it or helping her through it she won't have the motivation needed to do the other work here...

Yeah, agreed. I'm still so hyper-vigilant about this stuff it's hard for me to give up what seems like a good source of "intel".

Your role as the BS in reconciliation would be to heal some, and hers is to fix her shit and help you heal.

Thanks. I've started getting more persistent about "Yeah, we are going to talk about XYZ, even though it's hard". I've been too soft on this, (dovetails with your 180 comments).

Is the AP married? Does the other spouse know?

Married. Second time cheating for him. I have not told the spouse. Not proud to say that there is lots of tension for me here around if it'll make MY situation worse vs. better:

Situation 1 (Bad):

She divorces him, now he's totally "free" (and tries HARDER to re-initiate contact)

Situation #2 (Good, what SI folks say typically happens):

He loses all interest b/c he's scrambling to fight fires

Mentioned this in general to my IC early on and she was against alerting AP's spouse, but opinions are pretty strong this subject here.

BrainFreeze posted 7/16/2018 13:35 PM

WS responses only

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:42 AM, July 17th (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 7/16/2018 13:59 PM

It was hard because it was admitting I threw my life away as I knew it over a little bit of nothing.
I think she may be starting to peek at this before it hurts too much and she runs away.
Another hurdle is to get to the place where your empathy and remorse is so solid with your spouse that you really can see the AP as the enemy that hurt your spouse. You don't want to believe you were so stupid and that you gave yourself to someone who was not at all sincere.
THIS. She's not there yet. It sucks for me. I can't understand how on one hand she feels such shame about what happened and the pain she caused me....Yet on the other hand, she still feels fondness towards the very thing that has caused such soul-crushing grief. It makes no sense to me and as a result I wonder if she's being real with me.
Seems like to me that you might want to detach from that part more, read up on the 180. If she feels that you are accepting it or helping her through it she won't have the motivation needed to do the other work here...
Yeah, agreed. I'm still so hyper-vigilant about this stuff it's hard for me to give up what seems like a good source of "intel"
.


Yes, I would probably be on the side of wanting the intel as well. I do see it as a good sign she is being honest with you. It wasn't that I didn't want to be honest, I just didn't think it was my H's role to have to deal with EVERYTHING. So, I worked those things through with my IC. Everyone is different, so if it does in fact work for you all, then by all means, keep doing that. Things on this site are not all one size fits all.


It was much later, month 9 or 10 before I really started to get it, and I get it more all the time. It sounds a little like you are afraid to lose her, but at some point she needs to be afraid of losing you. I understand the predicament, but be careful you are not enabling her.

HarryChicago posted 7/16/2018 14:24 PM

I understand the predicament, but be careful you are not enabling her.

Thanks. You are not the first on SI to say this. The habit of "trying to please" vs being authentic is a pretty deep one. Working on that HARD with my IC :)

MidnightRun posted 7/16/2018 19:36 PM

Hikingout said:

"But good people who are sincere do not go around sleeping with other men's wives."

At once profound and insightful--demonstrating fantasy's ability to warp common sense.

[This message edited by MidnightRun at 7:37 PM, July 16th (Monday)]

Wenda posted 7/16/2018 19:39 PM

Hi everyone and thanks isleguy for your replies.

When I asked if the affair partner manipulated you WS in any way I was thinking of more calculated manipulation. My husband's other woman was clearly trying to poach him and in hindsight I can see she was laying a trap. I did not see it until long after it was all over. For instance she started asking him to bring me out with the work crew. She did things that would annoy me, like giving me looks behind his back and being all flirty with him in front of me. Then she fed back that other people who were there had mentioned I didn't look too happy, and gave her own opinion that I must be controlling and jealous. She also heard rumours that we were trying unsuccessfully to have a baby. She used all this information to try and find weaknesses in our relationship. She knew I didn't really want to go to another city for his work, so when that opportunity came up she used it to tell him I didn't support him. She started saying things like she couldn't wait to find a man and start a family.

When the shit hit the fan and I found out about his inappropriate friendship, because I discovered they went out and then kissed, I threw him out. She didn't want him to come home so she offered to 'help him' financially get a place of his own.

Yet he did come home, but it moved on to social media then. Posts in bikinis in sexy poses with hashtags with double meanings, photos of her doing exciting activities, motivational quotes. Her account was rarely active before this.

I could go on and on.

Like I said, I realised all this in hindsight. But it really upsets me that my husband was completely clueless about her motives. He still thinks she was trying to 'help' him.

MidnightRun posted 7/17/2018 06:02 AM

Has your emotional growth given you a new perspective on life?

MJ1675123 posted 7/17/2018 19:16 PM

WW-

Men are emasculated and sexually damaged by their wives having sex with another man during an affair.

They are insecure about their bodies including their penis. They feel second best at everything and feel sexually worthless.

What do WW do to help sexually heal their husbands after an affair if they plan to stay married ?

[This message edited by MJ1675123 at 8:07 PM, July 17th (Tuesday)]

Darkness Falls posted 7/17/2018 20:44 PM

What do WW do to help sexually heal their husbands after an affair if they plan to stay married ?

I didn’t stay married immediately afterwards (his choice) but we are remarried to each other now.

I did not personally do anything to “sexually heal” my husband. His healing was his own responsibility and, sadly, I don’t have a magic (redacted) that is capable of making everything all better.

He has been insecure about his penis (which is, IME, average/above-average in size) for as long as I’ve known him, well before my affair. At first it was endearing. Now, not so much. I have a newfound appreciation for men despising their wives’ “Do I look fat?” despite the man’s ongoing reassurance to the contrary, because a man doing it about his dick is just as bad.

Fwiw, the AP’s penis was smaller.

MJ1675123 posted 7/17/2018 21:34 PM

Darkness-

Are you telling me you fucked another man while you were married and didn't address the sexual damage you caused your husband ?

Did you tell your husband sex with him was better than sex with your AP ? ( was sex with your husband better than your AP? )

Didn't you do anything to make amends to your husband for sexually damaging him ?

Darkness Falls posted 7/17/2018 21:49 PM

Are you telling me you fucked another man while you were married and didn't address the sexual damage you caused your husband ?

That is what I am telling you.

Did you tell your husband sex with him was better than sex with your AP ?

I did not.

( was sex with your husband better than your AP? )

Occasionally in our relationship up to that point it had been. Overall, though, I preferred the sexual relationship with the AP, who was my ex before I met my husband.

Didn't you do anything to make amends to your husband for sexually damaging him ?

No, I didn’t. He divorced me immediately. Once we got back together, two years had passed and he had fucked my supposed “best friend”—apparently he wasn’t all that “sexually damaged” after all. Either way, he was under no obligation to date me again, and I was under none to him.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 9:52 PM, July 17th (Tuesday)]

hikingout posted 7/18/2018 08:33 AM

WW-
Men are emasculated and sexually damaged by their wives having sex with another man during an affair.
They are insecure about their bodies including their penis. They feel second best at everything and feel sexually worthless.
What do WW do to help sexually heal their husbands after an affair if they plan to stay married ?


I don't know if every BH experiences this to the level you are speaking about. My H is not worried about the size of his penis, not at all. I see it on the board here and have asked him about it and I truly believe he would tell me.


As for the sex, in my situation, I had sex with the AP a few times. I have had sex with my husband thousands of times. My H and I know each other very well, are confident in what the other person likes, and have perfected different choreographies with both enjoy. Our sex life has always been very good and frequent. Our sex life was never an issue with either of us. I tell you that because that might be why this is not the emphasis of where the healing has to happen.

I had an affair selfishly escaping myself and my reality. We did lose an emotional connection in the time leading up the affair that I tried and we could not get back on the same page. This is not an excuse at all. I own 150% of my responsibility for having the A. But, because of the circumstances the emphasis of what troubles him the most is the lying/betrayal and the emotional connection with the other person.


I am saying this not to say you are wrong for feeling that way, or that this doesn't hurt you to your core. But, in the big picture - does it hurt you because there was a lack of enthusiasm from your wife about sex? Often the thing that troubles us the most is where there was greatest deficit.


But, to answer your question, I work to show my husband how much I desire him. We still have sex often, but I have tried to step up my game a little and be more creative, and more generous, and make it about him more.

FWIW, most women don't care about the size of the penis. If it's tiny or too big, sure that might be an issue. But, if you are sporting something near average, that's all that is needed. That's the amount our bodies are designed to accommodate. I have found in any lover the most important thing about him was his willingness to make the pleasure about both of us and not just him. The penis size is really not at the top of the list of any women I talk to intimately. I don't know if there could ever be a good place to poll women here but I bet most of them would say what I am saying. I don't know if that makes you feel better.

hikingout posted 7/18/2018 08:59 AM

Has your emotional growth given you a new perspective on life?

In some ways yes, and in some ways no.

I have always been optimistic, motivated, somewhat of a homebody who enjoys just staying in and cooking and wearing comfy clothes and loving on my cats. I have always enjoyed taking care of my husband and family. (I know I didn't during the A - but on the whole this is who I have been for 20+ years). I have done well with work, my kids have turned out better than I could have ever hoped, so in many ways I am the same person as I ever was.

Where I think it's changed me the most is being mindful - not needing to feel like I need something to look forward to. Not having to feel like I need to be happy all the time or have others around me feel happy all the time. I can be in the moment more. I am more grateful for small things. Probably the biggest change is I am more self-aware. I dissect my thoughts and motivations. I pray more. I communicate better. I have learned I am not loved for how much money I make, what I do for the family, I am loved for me - in all my own frailties and weirdness and in all my strengths. I accept myself more, require perfection less. I have learned what is truly the most important to me, and what I can just let go of.

WilliamM posted 7/18/2018 09:03 AM

Many BSs compare themselves to the AP and have the belief that they are second choice. If this is the case, where does your BS compare tgemselves tge most? How did/do you address these issues to help your BS heal?

hikingout posted 7/18/2018 09:11 AM

When I asked if the affair partner manipulated you WS in any way I was thinking of more calculated manipulation.


Hi Wenda,


I do think manipulation is part of about any affair. I was really trying to think back about this and answer honestly. It seems in your situation she wanted to actually take your husband. My affair wasn't like that. Both of us were cake-eaters.


So, when I think about ways I might have been manipulated - yeah - I see it. There was all the praise/compliments. The mirroring. The types of phrases like "tell me how I can best support you emotionally", "I will protect you", blah blah blah. Things he thought would get my panties to drop of course.


And, his best interests were not on my heart either. I mean how could they be? I was helping him cheat on his wife. I would commiserate with him and coddle him on different areas. Compliments and praise. Use my sexuality to keep his interests. But, at the time, I didn't know I was purposely manipulating anyone, it's only in hindsight I can see it for what it was. I don't know how purposeful he was either in the manipulation, but that doesn't matter or bother me now.


I think what I am trying to say is when you are in an affair, you are projecting things onto the person that aren't there, and you are mirroring things they seem to want that maybe aren't authentic to you either. At the time, I rationalized the thinking as "this is exciting, this part of me has been dormant for all this time". But, honestly, it wasn't dormant. I was escaping reality, living out a fantasy - but none of it was authentic of who I was.


The depths of an affair are sick, illogical, disgusting. The denial and the lying is in every aspect of your life. I came out of it feeling like I didn't know who I was any more.


Root posted 7/18/2018 09:28 AM

I cheated before we married. I confessed after getting caught having an EA. This devastated BH sexually.

I tried to heal him for 3 years but was unsuccessful. Well that’s not entirely true I found him a great, sex therapist who specializes in infidelity. Within 6 months he understood that my cheating had nothing to do with him or his body. He’s been in therapy for 17 months now and is doing really well.

Edited to add: I cheated because I was bat shit crazy (bipolar and BPD).

[This message edited by Root at 9:58 AM, July 18th (Wednesday)]

Darkness Falls posted 7/18/2018 09:34 AM

double post

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 9:35 AM, July 18th (Wednesday)]

Darkness Falls posted 7/18/2018 09:35 AM

Many BSs compare themselves to the AP and have the belief that they are second choice. If this is the case, where does your BS compare tgemselves tge most? How did/do you address these issues to help your BS heal?

I don’t really know which areas my husband compares himself the most because he’s never told me, but I would assume physically—looks, height, sexual prowess, etc. Maybe personality also, since I’m sure he’s well aware that I felt more compatible with the AP in that respect.

I don’t address the issues directly at all, because neither does he and he doesn’t want to or want me to.

Indirectly, I addressed the issue by not legitimizing my relationship with the AP after my husband divorced me (which would have been a very easy no-brainer had that been what I’d chosen) and in fact by choosing to remarry my husband. If that’s not validation and evidence of what my choice is, then I don’t know what the fuck would be.

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