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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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islesguy posted 5/16/2018 08:40 AM

midnightrun,

Were you a gonner before or after the first kiss from affair partner?

The kiss with AP is what led me to the EA for 2 reasons. First, crossing this boundary made it easier to cross other boundaries like the sexual innuendo and sexual content in my EA because we were now in this secretive relationship. Second, it made EA easier for me to cross into because in my screwed up mind, talk was not as bad as what I had already done when I made out with AP.

MrsWalloped posted 5/16/2018 08:54 AM

Were you a gonner before or after the first kiss from affair partner?

I donít understand the question. What do you mean ďgonner?Ē Are you asking if it was going to be a full blown PA before the first kiss regardless, or it was the first kiss that kind of sealed the deal?

Iím sorry, but if thatís the case then itís a silly question. Everything we do is a gateway to the next step. Light touching, a text message or a phone call, holding hands, meeting for coffee, a personal conversation that should never been had, and the first kiss. Everything leads to the next. But most importantly, your question implies that we had no agency. That once we did one thing, we were a ďgoner.Ē Or even before that one thing it was a done deal. No. Sorry. I donít let anyone take away my responsibility for my actions. I had a choice every step of the way and there was always an opportunity to stop and take a different course of action. I didnít. But thatís because I chose not to. Thatís me and no one else.

I was never a goner. The choices and actions were mine and mine alone. If they werenít, then I have nothing to work on and itís not my fault. I donít buy that for a second. We are responsible for everything we do. Period.

hikingout posted 5/16/2018 09:20 AM

I interpreted gonner to mean "in love". But I agree it doesn't take the decisions out of it, or mean you didn't intentionally keep going.

MidnightRun posted 5/16/2018 09:42 AM

Let me rephrase: when did you feel you crossed the line?

mindfullness posted 5/16/2018 09:47 AM

I sent the following email to my BS over the weekend. I am looking for WS to reply on it as if your BS sent it to you. I am not going to share how my WS replied right now. Just interested in how other WS view things a year later.

Hey Sweetie,

Over the past couple of weeks I've been thinking now since it has been over a year since you finally came clean I wonder if you think differently now about the entire situation leading up to you cheating, while you were cheating and how you felt in the first few months after it came out. I understand things between us are 100x better than before everything happened and while you were lying and cheating so I don't mean that. There were so many things that had to be brought to your attention during counseling which you were reluctant to believe. Also even after being told by me, our counselor, reading the book I gave you and asking you to watch the You tube videos you still thought you knew best, tried to control my decision on whether I should stay by withholding information and didn't tell me things that you should have right from the start.
I don't want you tell me what you think I want to hear, that is you controlling my ability to understand to who I am really married and sabotaging my healing process. Really think about things and give me your honest thoughts and feelings. I love you and know you love me. You show me everyday how much and try to convey how sorry you are. It still isn't easy for me to talk to you about how I am feeling, but I promised you I wouldn't keep things bottled up anymore. If I am quiet or seem distant now it is me trying to work through thoughts and feelings and deciding what are my issues that I need to control or how to bring up things that are bothering me in a way where you won't feel threatened.

Love you,

[This message edited by mindfullness at 8:46 AM, August 31st (Friday)]

remorseandgrief posted 5/16/2018 15:56 PM

To answer the question from Trying2copeinMD:
Now, for my question... When you were in the affair, were there talks about the future at all? What was the "end game", as far as what you wanted in the relationship?

When I was in the A, I did not think about the future at all. The only "game" was to keep getting the ego kibbles from AP.

If I had thought about the future I might have been forced to recognize what I was doing.

motod posted 5/16/2018 16:47 PM

Did your A/P's identity enhance or accentuate your passion or sexual pleasure in the affair?

Was the A/P someone you had met previously, professionally or socially, who intrigued you as a possible lover if the opportunity presented itself?

Did one of you pursue the other or did the interest develop mutually?

Did you feel a sense of victory or good fortune to acquire this person as your A/P?

amanda123 posted 5/16/2018 18:32 PM

islesguy

I was very withdrawn mostly ignoring my BS. I don't believe I was mean as far as starting fights with her but I was certainly mean in that she was trying to understand what was wrong and I didn't respond to her even when she asked me about my feelings for her.

Your comment resonates with me especially the part where you say she was trying to understand what was wrong and you didnt respond to her even when she asked you about your feelings for her.

Thank you for your response.

StrongerEverday posted 5/16/2018 19:29 PM

My husband cheated for 7 years with strippers, prostitutes, and had one night stands. Almost every single event was preceded by alcohol and happened while he was traveling for work. He "desperately" wanted to R and I told him the only way I could survive that is if he found another job without travel. He refused and the divorce is almost final. So here's my question: would you as a WS have quit traveling to save your marriage? It seems like a no-brainer to me but sometimes I still question myself.

Edited to fix typos!

[This message edited by StrongerEverday at 7:38 PM, May 16th (Wednesday)]

12and20years posted 5/16/2018 21:36 PM

Waywards,(1) any of you end up getting divorced because you couldn't do what it took to R- didn't want to be held accountable- if so why? and (2) Why is it so hard to really really say I'm sorry - you didn't deserve this? Why do some of you show no empathy, no remorse, no regret?

hikingout posted 5/16/2018 22:28 PM

Stronger- you are right itís a no brainer, I would agree to stop traveling.

Motod - I donít follow exactly on the identity enhancing the passion? Like it being a public figure? Or? I am gonna say no to this one.

I did know him professionally for a few years. I did find him charismatic. I never considered him as a lover prior to affair. I think we were equally bad about pursuing. Egged each other on. But I knew for years he was a flirt and I believed he was a cheater. I did eventually learn I was not his first affair, there were a number of them before me. So he was better at letting his intentions be known.

Did I feel a sense of victory or good fortune? Thinking back I did in the way he was good at making me feel special and seen. So in that way yes. I conveniently ignored the fact he probably did that routinely enough that it was easy. But this also sounds like a public status question. I would say no to that. Both of similiar economic standing, professional careers, etc so he certainly didnít have a sugar daddy appeal.

MidnightRun posted 5/16/2018 22:51 PM

Did popular culture to any extent play a role in your notion of romance, excitement and love? Or, were you partial to romantic novels or movies?

hikingout posted 5/17/2018 08:29 AM

Midnightrun -

No not really, I am actually pretty pragmatic in my life. You and I have had discussions where I have explained my husband has not been as expressive as I liked, but that I was able to extract romance from simpler acts that he did and praise and appreciate them.

I don't think popular culture or romance books (I don't read those, I am more of a true crime/horror kind of reader) had anything to do with it. BUT, once the affair began and I was using it as an escape, the romanticism was like wildfire and I was buying into all sorts of crazy notions.

I look back and wonder how I could have interpreted that way. So many signs of insincerity. I will take the simple acts any day over anything else now. My husband is consistent, sincere, and always has my back.

Darkness Falls posted 5/17/2018 08:38 AM

Midnight,

I would have been a ďgonerĒ for the AP anytime except after having had kidsóhe didnít have to kiss me again to make that the caseógetting married was a mistake when I was still in love with someone else.

Yes, I was susceptible to the cultural influence of the romanticized version of what love was. Not so much romance novels, if you mean the trashy paperbacks, but just the concept of love and marriage being automatically easy and passionate and lifelong-lasting when you find the true One. () You know how I feel about all that baloney THESE days.

MrsWalloped posted 5/17/2018 08:56 AM

Hi 12and20years,

Why is it so hard to really really say I'm sorry - you didn't deserve this? Why do some of you show no empathy, no remorse, no regret?

First, Iím really sorry for what youíre going through.

There is something I believe that blocks a WS from being truly empathetic to a BSís pain. One of the toughest things my BH has had to do is try to understand who I really am as a person. He couldnít fathom how I, the person he knew and loved for so many years, could do this to him. A WS has to do something similar. We have to look in the mirror and see who we really are. That we did something so horrible to the person we say we love. I think that to be truly empathetic to your BSís pain, you have to accept that you were the one who caused it. You have to know that you were the monster in your story. Thatís not something thatís easy to do. You have to confront yourself. Itís much much easier to play the victim or excuse what you did or try and justify it and blame your BS. So I think thatís a big part of it.

If you read SI long enough youíll see foggy or unremorseful Waywards that eventually have their A-Ha! moments. Thatís when they truly realize what they did. And thatís also when regret, empathy, and remorse really starts.

MidnightRun posted 5/17/2018 10:20 AM

The deceit is devastating, as most have said.

Did you ever consider disclosing your involvement to bs at the very outset of the affair?

hikingout posted 5/17/2018 11:29 AM

The deceit is devastating, as most have said.
Did you ever consider disclosing your involvement to bs at the very outset of the affair?
'

I won't say it didn't cross my mind, it did. I think I have said before we had an open relationship when we were dating, I could have talked to him about re-opening. I was the one who wanted it closed.

But at the time I was already giving myself weird justifications and I didn't want to stop at all. Telling would have meant I would have to stop it. Part of not wanting to stop at least in some small percentage was also not to disappoint the AP. Ridiculous, right?

When I started playing with fire in the outset I was saying:

You have worked so hard and given everybody else everything you had. This is okay just do something for you. (entitlement)

This will probably spark back up my H and I's sex life (it was waning for the first time in the stress of us both working so much and not connecting at all - but how DELUSIONAL)

This will be motivation to lose some weight and spend some time taking care of myself (WHAT?)

And, of course the ego kibble train was rolling a long and I was so desperate.

So, no I didn't tell him because I was selfish, entitled, delusional, dishonest, sneaky, etc.

journey posted 5/17/2018 11:45 AM

motod,

Did your A/P's identity enhance or accentuate your passion or sexual pleasure in the affair?

I would say yes it accentuated the passion but not sexual pleasure if that makes any sense. I previously worked with AP and thought he was a good guy. He was what I considered at the time a mentor professionally. That history played a role.

Was the A/P someone you had met previously, professionally or socially, who intrigued you as a possible lover if the opportunity presented itself?

No. I did not have any romantic ideas about AP. I thought he was a good family man but didn't really like the way he communicated and was a bit awkward and I did not find him physically attractive. He had qualities I liked and I did at times think I wish my H was more like that. I thought that line of thinking was normal, that no spouse is perfect. I didn't realize at the time that by thinking that way I was actually putting my H down in my mind. But that is exactly what that thinking is.

Did one of you pursue the other or did the interest develop mutually?

The initial interest was bluntly conveyed to me, exact words, "I left the company because I was in love with you". My interest started after that initially because I didn't understand and wanted to know why and how. My interest was driven by his responses, my lack of self-esteem at a time my H and I were struggling. I liked feeling good so I continued to pursue it.

Did you feel a sense of victory or good fortune to acquire this person as your A/P?

In some ways, yes because I only focused on how good he made me feel with his constant words (lies) of adoration and praise. I didn't allow myself to think about the reality of who this person really was.

Good questions btw - this helped me and I hope it helps others.

MidnightRun posted 5/17/2018 14:47 PM

The pain experienced by those wayards who are deeply remorseful is real. Perhaps it was asked earlier, but how do you cope with sporadic self loathing, which at times I'm sure is paralyzing?

hikingout posted 5/17/2018 15:36 PM

Midnight Run,

I think the pain changes over time, and probably has a lot to do with your spouse's perspectives, length, number of affairs, how fresh, and all sorts of factors probably effect it.

And, it's not linear as to where it is or the source. You kind of think you are past something and then it hits again with a vengeance. Early on, there was a lot of feeling sorry for myself. Feeling a disconnect from every one in my life. Still wanting to hide and run away, or even end things. I couldn't do either of those last two, mostly because I am a mom and I couldn't do that to the kids, grown or not. Later my H was included in that, but early on I felt he hated me and there was such a disconnect and distorted thinking of it being easier for him if I disappeared. A lot of pity party and feeling like the woman that ruined the world. Some days it can still feel like that but to a much lesser degree.

I think the longer I have worked on things, I have more to feel good about. That's very relative of course, but the building and the work lends itself to more acceptance of yourself. I don't struggle as much with not accepting my affair self as part of me. That was excruciating because it shattered everything that I believed in myself, and my self worth was very much tied to being a good wife and good mother. So, yes, self loathing was terrible and sometimes still is but I have learned that some things you just have to sit with.

I have worked hard to get to a place of doing things that make me feel better about myself to pull me out of the depression. For the first 6-8 months I was extremely depressed and couldn't focus on all the daily things that I needed to. I just did what I could and left whatever for the next day. A few months ago I started exercising, eating right, meditation and prayer routines, sleeping enough, working hard at my job, coming to SI regularly to work through things, counseling, making sure there was intentional expressions of love towards my husband every day. I find now I am really focused on his healing and his needs. I have gotten creative with that lately, and I wish I had been doing those things all along. An affair would have never been possible if I had because it would have given him something different to react to and pulled us out of our disconnect.

So, at the moment most all my pain is from watching my husband struggle. And, the failures that come in the trial and error of trying to get the marriage on some sort of track that we can find a way to thrive in it. There is a lot of pain of not having the marriage I once had, or the respect of the person who I wish I had it from the most. I did that to myself but I can't undo it with a snap of the finger.

The being so intentional on my growth and self improvement, it's made me so much stronger and able to manage and deal with the situation a lot better. It's been a very dark and hard year. I am enjoying that lately I finally have felt more determined, focused, motivated, and less depressed. I am definitely not in a wallowing stage at the moment. More like a stage of facing what I need to face in the fallout of what I have done like the woman I should have been all along.

He's doing better but this is going to be a long road for him to heal, which you know the recent fall-out of "Let's get a divorce". But, because I am in a better place right now I don't just sit and hate myself. It serves no purpose and I don't think it helps my husband at all. I do wish I made better choices, I would give anything to take away his pain, and I take full responsibility for it. But, this burst of optimism is what is carrying the boat for both of us right now. It's given me so much patience and ability to love him so strongly and be so present through this most recent storm.

I guess this was a long-winded explanation that while I do consider myself remorseful, dedicated, and committed, right now I am getting a respite from self-hatred. I can't take it back, I did it. I will do anything to fix it. I will never do anything ever to jeopardize my husband knowing how much I love him and need him - nothing.

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