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BS Questions for WS's - Part 12

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tapered posted 6/5/2018 10:39 AM


For WS that have left their BS for their AP (especially those that were in long term affairs), are you happier, financially more stable, able to integrate kids from both marriages harmoniously, etc?

Brennan87 posted 6/5/2018 14:05 PM

hiking out,

Thank you so much for your perspective on what the relationship meant/means to you. This definitely helps me put it into perspective. :)

As you pointed out, we're now on opposite ends of the spectrum. Even amidst our struggles pre-A, I was so in love with her, the allusion of us, her and completely devoted. It's clear the same could not be said (long story), which culminated in an affair eventually. Now that she is digging deep and on the road to healing, she has brought to the surface what she buried for several years. Unfortunately, our roles have reversed due to the infidelity. Thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!

As for the marital secrets. Without sending you down a rabbit hole. The way I interpret it, is that I was not discussed often either. However, when I was it was as justification (He travels too much, doesn't love me anymore, etc) from a negative aspect. With that said, she still says he is almost a complete stranger and knows little about him. With that said, when I refer to medical conditions. It was given as an "excuse" for lack of intimacy. So think in this conversation context:
AP: So sex is in frequent?
WW: Yes, he blames his two medical conditions X & Y.
Does that put it in more context?

hikingout posted 6/5/2018 14:18 PM

Brennan,

Yes that makes sense.

I think sometimes the spouse does feel thrown under the bus. During the A, the WS often "re-writes" the marriage. I did it, but not consciously, purposefully, or to be intentionally vicious. When having the A, the cognitive dissonance is very strong. You kind of get your mind aligning with what your wants/pulls are.

For me, I started accentuating the negative and minimizing the positive. Because when there was something positive it would bring up guilt. Guilt is no fun and ruins the fantasy of everything. It's ridiculous to think about now, but I can see that clearly in hindsight.

I do think that the AP tends to want to understand why the other is pursuing another relationship. The AP in my situation used the classic "not physically compatible". And, I am usually a very insightful/instinctual person so I saw that, but chose not to. (Again, it didn't line up with what I wanted to be true)

However, when the question came for me, I said something that I think was actually true. I said "my marriage is good, I have a good husband, this really has nothing to do with either of those things. I want to do something fun for myself". I literally roll my eyes at that now - there are a gazillion things I could have chosen to do that would have been fun for myself and most of them probably would have had my husband riding shotgun to it. Still as things got more intense, I found myself justifying harder and the re-writing was happening. It took me a couple of months after the A ended to even recognize the bullcrap I had told myself during the A as complete falsehoods.

This never makes sense to a BS, and I understand why it doesn't. But, when we get to thinking straight and thinking about what it is that we really want, the thinking begins to line back up properly. In the meantime we spew a bunch of shit that our BS's have no real understanding how we believed it or what we are even talking about.

It's tough. Sitting here, I wouldn't believe it. But, it's a web of deceit, and it's intricately built and not instantaneous.

MidnightRun posted 6/5/2018 15:32 PM

Has your spouse shied away from activites he/she once enjoyed, like weddings or anniversary celebrations?

hikingout posted 6/5/2018 15:51 PM

Has your spouse shied away from activites he/she once enjoyed, like weddings or anniversary celebrations?

I am not sure. He's a guy, and like a lot of guys he has never liked weddings. And, our anniversary was just shortly after DDAY. It seems like instead he's grown his hobbies and does more things he enjoys. His birthday is coming up, so we'll see how that goes. He's been fine for our children's birthdays.

MidnightRun posted 6/5/2018 19:33 PM

Was your moral authority undermined within lhe family?

islesguy posted 6/6/2018 07:43 AM

MidnightRun,

Did you ever consider ic before infidelity entered the picture?

No, and even when I did after I was discovered as a cheater, I thought it was a necessity to help clean up the mess I made. I didn't see the problems in myself, the problems that have been there all along, and many of which still persist. In retrospect, whether it be IC or just an honest look at myself and who I am, I wish I could have been honest with myself many many years ago. My self forgiving attitude and choices to hide and lie rather than see myself for who I am completely burned down my relationship with my BS and any chance at R and left her so devastated that it has affected every part of her life and health.

Brennan87 posted 6/6/2018 08:49 AM

Hiking....

This makes sense

For me, I started accentuating the negative and minimizing the positive. Because when there was something positive it would bring up guilt. Guilt is no fun and ruins the fantasy of everything. It's ridiculous to think about now, but I can see that clearly in hindsight.

You are right, it doesn't make sense to a BS. How anyone regardless of conscious/sub conscious could betray their spouse firstly, but also divulge marital secrets to a stranger regardless of the reason, just doesn't resonate at all.

Honestly, I think this hits me harder than the sex, the lies and the deceit. The fact that I had no choice in her sharing our marital secrets with a stranger feels like more a betrayal than anything else.

UGH. I do appreciate your insight as it has helped.

hikingout posted 6/6/2018 15:01 PM

Midnightrun,

I don't think so.

First, my H didn't want our kids to know. He felt that he did not want them to worry or if we stayed together for us to taint our narrative for them. So, he felt that it's been best to keep that from them. I have mixed emotions about that but I agree with where he is coming from and respect his wishes.

When I tell the kids right from wrong or give them life advice, my H still stands by what I am saying because he believes that I have their best interest at heart. I know that I didn't by having an A, but for the most part, I would do about anything for the kids and making their life better. H knows that and the A didn't seem to change his opinion of my parenting skills or in helping the kids through situations.

There hasn't been any other issue I can think of surrounding moral authority exactly, but of course his viewpoint of me and my morals is tainted badly and that's a different story. But, the root of your question seems to be more about having respect in the family and having conviction in what I say about things, and I don't think that's changed because they don't know. It would though, I know that.

Darkness Falls posted 6/6/2018 17:59 PM

Midnight,

I donít know if I did or not. Certainly not with our children, as they werenít even conceived at the time.

I donít know what he really thinks about my ability to have moral authority on any subject. No idea.

Evertrying posted 6/7/2018 10:34 AM

Waywards or any OW that might be on this forum,

I have been thinking a lot lately about people in A's and the OW being second to the spouse. I know my H's AP would always get pissed and was jealous because my H was very strict about being home on time, always keeping our Friday night out to dinner plan and only giving her "stolen moments" during the work week. They never spent an overnight together, never went out for a nice dinner, and this drove her crazy.

I am curious why someone would allow themselves to always take scraps and be second? Did your AP's ever talk or express their feelings about this?

Darkness Falls posted 6/7/2018 13:56 PM

I wasnít an OW, so I was the one who was making my AP second.

I would never put up with it. I donít know why he did except that he was waiting for me to leave and figured it would be worth it. He could have had any woman he wantedóhe didnít need to be wasting his time with me.

Evertrying posted 6/7/2018 15:30 PM

Darkness Falls,

Thank you for your reply.

Did you tell your AP you were leaving?

Why didn't you leave your husband?

hikingout posted 6/7/2018 15:42 PM

Waywards or any OW that might be on this forum,
I have been thinking a lot lately about people in A's and the OW being second to the spouse. I know my H's AP would always get pissed and was jealous because my H was very strict about being home on time, always keeping our Friday night out to dinner plan and only giving her "stolen moments" during the work week. They never spent an overnight together, never went out for a nice dinner, and this drove her crazy.
I am curious why someone would allow themselves to always take scraps and be second? Did your AP's ever talk or express their feelings about this?

Well, I guess because I was married too, sometimes the AP had to deal with the scraps.

But, at the heart of it, I do think that allowing myself to be second is something I have been thinking about lately. I think in this first year I have gone through different phrases of thought, everything from the withdrawal, to dealing with the fallout of my M, to healing and helping my husband heal.

But, I am at a point in my healing, that I wonder why I would degrade myself to be second best for someone when I had someone at home that held me as first? It's a question that I am holding at the moment because that is truly a crazy thing to do. I think I am answering your question with a question, so I am not sure I am being at all helpful. But, seriously, this person just dropped me like a hotcake on dday, but I pined for him for months after? Why? It's truly sad and pathetic. It's illogical.

I know it comes back to I was trying to fill a void with something that was unhealthy, immoral, and destructive because "it felt good". And, when it ended the void was so much bigger, and worse. So, part of me thinks the answer is I was willing to have the crumbs because it still allowed me to escape from my reality. And, when I say reality, I don't mean my marriage...I mean the reality of being me - the responsibilities, the complexities, the boredom, etc. I was playing a movie in my head, I guess. Anyway, I responded because your question has been a theme for me this week and I don't feel I have my arms all around it yet.

Evertrying posted 6/7/2018 16:45 PM

Thank you Hikingout. You are always very helpful.

I have been pondering this as well:

My H for a very long time prior to the A, thought I didn't love him anymore and he began checking out of the marriage long before he started up with his AP. So HE felt "second" or "unwanted" in our marriage.
According to him, his AP was in a shitty marriage too (but who really knows if this is true or not,,,,) She told him her BS was also cheating and they no longer slept together. So she was "second" in her marriage too.

I guess they thought they were "first" to each other when infact they weren't. He only gave her an hour here, an hour there and it was only during work hours. I am sure he texted her and called her in the evenings when I wasn't around, but never whisked her away for a romantic getaway weekend. I guess she wasn't worth the planning it would take to pull something like that off.

Darkness Falls posted 6/8/2018 08:51 AM

Evertrying,

Yes I did tell him I was leaving, and for almost 6 months I actually believed it, but I chickened out at the end. Then I got found out, my husband divorced me, and I STILL didnít date the AP because I totally underestimated how ashamed of myself and embarrassed Iíd be to try to have a legitimate relationship with him after D-day, not to mention how disrespectful it would be to my then-XH.

numb&dumb posted 6/8/2018 10:45 AM

I know this may be a highly subjective question and this is a hard thing to put into words. . .

How long did it before you felt that you had genuine remorse ?

Did you recognize the difference between the guilt and remorse ?

Was there anything that helped speed up the remorse process ?

hikingout posted 6/8/2018 10:59 AM

I know this may be a highly subjective question and this is a hard thing to put into words. . .
How long did it before you felt that you had genuine remorse ?
Did you recognize the difference between the guilt and remorse ?
Was there anything that helped speed up the remorse process ?

Hmmm...very good questions.

I think the bridge between guilt and remorse was gradual. And the remorse is something that deepens over time. So it's difficult to know when things happened exactly. I will try and put it out in a timeline from the end of affair:

A Ended (no dday for me at this point) - The guilt hadn't set in fully yet. I was in a fantasy land where we were star-crossed lovers and while I didn't want to hurt anyone, I just justified it with those "meant to be" feelings. But, put myself in IC because I had to figure out the path forward.

About six weeks later, I had worked through some of that. I was still pining, but felt guilty. I knew I needed to confess, and work through with my H on what I needed to do.

Months passed, and I was up and down, some days pining, some days guilty, some days changing cycles hour by hour. I slowly started realizing some of the things I was telling myself was lies and justification.

About six months in - I was not pining for AP anymore, I was stuck in guilt and shame, still a little disoriented, but starting to reach empathy and cringing a lot at my behavior. I think this is when the guilt started to move towards remorse. I am about a year out now from end of affair, and that remorse and empathy has grown and grown. I would probably say I was more in remorse than guilt around the 8-9 month mark.

It was at that time that I saw I needed to get to a point where I was strong for my husband and that meant I needed to get past the wallowing days and stand upright. I still fail at this from time to time but helping my husband heal, doing things for him daily, getting healthy outlets and hobbies, taking care of myself, I am feeling strong and healthy. I hate what I did, and I sit with my husband with empathy. But, not cowering and wallowing in shame. I need to be a woman worth loving, and so I do that. And, that has made a big difference for us.

earlydetour posted 6/8/2018 18:00 PM

Did you notice yourself treating/talking your BS differently during your A?
If you turned negative towards your BS during the A, did you realize it at the time?
Did you rationalize the negativity?

For those WHs that had an EA, what did it take for you to believe and really comprehend that your behavior was infidelity, since it didn't involve sex?

Lucky77 posted 6/9/2018 05:34 AM

Hi Early Detour,

For those WHs that had an EA, what did it take for you to believe and really comprehend that your behavior was infidelity, since it didn't involve sex?

I was highly aware during the EA stage that I was in infidelity. I was just shocked that AP was so into me. I was floored and didn't know what to do. I played along though. I saw that infidelity was just behavior that I would not share with my W. It was pretty simple to see that I knew I was involved in extremely risky, wrong and volatile behavior. I enjoyed it though at the time. It got my blood pumping.

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