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Why do they lie about the little things?

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 WhiteCarrera (original poster member #29126) posted at 4:46 AM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

My wife has admitted the affair and been a remorseful, cooperative partner, working toward a better future. So why does she maintain lies about some of the non-essential stuff?

Originally of course, she lied about everything (they all do), but as the big things came out she stuck to some of her little lies and I just don’t understand. The divide and disconnect about some of her details has been a cancer for 12 years when this could all be behind us by now.

If I want recovery, then I must allow for it to actually happen.Is it possible that I actually do have all the truth now?

me - husband A57; her - wife A53 Married 13 years @ D-Day 09-02-2009
Now married 25 years and hanging in there (maybe by a th

posts: 293   ·   registered: Jul. 23rd, 2010   ·   location: Midwest
id 8692896
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Thumos ( member #69668) posted at 6:16 AM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

So why does she maintain lies about some of the non-essential stuff?

If she will lie about the little things, she'll lie about the big things. Doesn't sound all that remorseful, to be honest. Real remorse owns it and offers full transparency. Failing that, she's still in a wayward mindset.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49 Married: Feb. 1996 DDAY1: 12.20.16 DDAY2:

posts: 4301   ·   registered: Feb. 5th, 2019   ·   location: UNITED STATES
id 8692900
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ramius ( member #44750) posted at 8:37 AM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

I would say it’s in her nature. Might as well ask a zebra to give up its stripes.

How many scars have you rationalized because you loved the person who was holding the knife?

Their actions reveal their intentions. Their words conceal them.

posts: 1608   ·   registered: Sep. 3rd, 2014
id 8692905
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steadychevy ( member #42608) posted at 12:18 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

That is who she is. It is her character. Secrets and true intimacy are incompatible. You know she's lying and that's what's causing the "cancer". She is unable to allow you really close, as in marital close, two shall become one close, while she has secrets.

But, basically it boils down to character and integrity. That is who she is. Is it enough?

BH(me)70; XWW 64; M 42 yrs
DDay1-01/09/13;DDay2-26/10/13;DDay3-19/12/13;DDay4-21/01/14
LTA-09/02-06/06? OM - COW
"dates" w/3 lovers post engagement;ONS w/stranger post commitment, lies, lies, lies
Separated 23/09/2017; D 16/03/2020

posts: 4674   ·   registered: Feb. 27th, 2014   ·   location: Canada
id 8692914
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 1:56 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

Can you give some examples? When you say she's still lying about details, do you mean you have proof and she denies it, or is it more of a gut feeling that her story still doesn't add up?

WW/BW 51 (Me)
BH/WH 51 (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2047   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8692919
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Seeking2Forgive ( member #78819) posted at 4:34 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

Hard to say without examples, but I'm guessing that it's a result of living a life where everything was a lie. Or a lie told to support a lie. Or a lie used to hide a lie. I suspect that when you live like that it becomes very hard to keep track of them all. What lie did you tell to who and when?

As those lies start to get peeled away, how do you keep track of what lies you have revealed and which ones you've stuck to?

When I discovered my wife's cheating many years ago, I understood at a macro level that her life and mine had been a lie during that time. But because I gave up on getting answers and swept it all under the rug, I never came to an understanding of just how deeply lies were ingrained into everything she did during that time. WSs lie all the time because that's what they learn to do to keep their activities hidden. Sometimes they may lose track of the truth entirely.

I'm realizing now what a mistake it was to let my FWW off the hook on getting answers. First, because I'm realizing that you can't really forgive unless you've seen the depths that they've sunk to. You may forgive a person, or a concept, but that's just a glossed over version of what really happened.

But also because even if your WS sincerely wants to start being completely honest from this day forward, they can never do that as long as they have to hide or avoid the lies that they still have not accounted for in the past.

Complete disclosure is the only way to resolve that and that's hard to get from a WS. They are usually still protecting themselves first and foremost. They never want to risk giving up that last sordid detail that might flip you from R to D.

Me: 59, BS
Her: 58, FWS
Dday: 11/15/03
Married 37 yrs
Reconciled

posts: 85   ·   registered: May. 18th, 2021
id 8692935
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NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 4:57 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

"Little" lies. What does a willingness to tell and double down on "little" lies really indicate about a person's character? The implications are severe for a BS.

Afterall, aren't most A's started by only a "little" lie or two? So if a WS (x or not) is prepared to tell a "little" lie what they're really saying is that all they need is the circumstances and the opportunity....they already have the rationale that lying is acceptable...accountability be damned!

Get ready for the next round.

I know all about this. It's not my first rodeo.

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 8:02 PM, Wednesday, October 13th]

Stop trying to outsmart the truth and let it have its day.

posts: 225   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2020
id 8692939
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crazyblindsided ( member #35215) posted at 5:11 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

I'm also of the opinion that when one lies about little things they will lie about big things. My xWS lied when his lips were moving.

fBS/fWS(me):48 Mad-hattered after DD1
XWS:51 Serial Cheater, NPD tendencies
Together 25 years, Married 19
DD(18) DS(15)
DD1 (2008) COW, DD2 (2012) MOW, False R (2014) Same MOW. DD3 (2019) Webcam girl

posts: 8063   ·   registered: Apr. 2nd, 2012   ·   location: California
id 8692941
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NewMomNeedingAdvice ( new member #79320) posted at 5:31 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

This is something I've been wondering as well. We could talk about it being their character and integrity, sure. But I also don't believe people are all bad or all good (whether or not they are good for you or not is another story though and not to be compromised).

In therapy we learned lying is a tool for people that do not like confrontation or conflict. So I think it starts there, someone who's afraid of conflict learns tools to avoid it - and lying serves that purpose. Then they do it for so long and get away with it, it's like second nature. If this is a relationship you are working on - this is something the individual needs to address. Why do they lie, what purpose does it serve for them, when did they learn that habit and tools to help them be more truthful.

Truth telling does not come naturally to these people. They are secretive by nature or learned to be that way early on and it's gotten them into trouble. They have to unlearn this habit and crutch but they have to actively work on it and recognize it. It's hard work and whether or not they can actually do that is another story. Whether or not you can live like that, is an important consideration as well.

posts: 15   ·   registered: Aug. 23rd, 2021   ·   location: TX
id 8692944
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Throwaway999 ( member #72413) posted at 6:09 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

So I think it starts there, someone who's afraid of conflict learns tools to avoid it - and lying serves that purpose. Then they do it for so long and get away with it, it's like second nature.

I agree with this and just wanted to add my WH also lied a lot by omission. Both little lies and big lies. He tried to gaslight me into believing that lying by omission was not lying at all.

Frankly it’s not wanting to face themselves and the person they have become (or always were).

He lied to me until he passed away…and sadly I believed a lot of the lies at the time. But I now know the truth or at least as much as I will ever know…he took most of the truth with him. Lying had become easier and second nature to him…I think he even believed some of his own lies.

Me - BS
Him -WS (passed away Aug2020)
DDay1 - 2011 EA with AP1
DDay2/3 - found out in 2019 about EA/PA same AP1 -4 yr LTA affair ended 2017
DDay4 - found out after he passed away about LTA with ex-wife same time as his first affair

posts: 518   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2019   ·   location: Canada
id 8692953
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20yrsagoBS ( member #55272) posted at 7:59 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

Those little lies are tests they use to gauge the likelihood of getting you to buy their big lies

BW, 54 WH 53
When you lie down with dogs, you wake up with fleas

posts: 2109   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2016   ·   location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
id 8692991
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NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 8:15 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

In therapy we learned lying is a tool for people that do not like confrontation or conflict.

I'd argue that very few honest people like confrontation or conflict. So I'd have to reason that it's something a bit deeper than that.

I'd gander that some know they don't have a leg to stand on when confronted with the truth and they're unwilling to face reality. So they avoid the conflict/confrontation by lying. In that case they're simply being cowards and selfish because they know their argument is weak. Sure, they don't like the confrontation/conflict but it's not because they're bashful towards such things as much as they refuse to go toe-to-toe with someone who has the truth backing them up. These are the folks that believe they can avoid taking their medicine by lying.

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 8:16 PM, Wednesday, October 13th]

Stop trying to outsmart the truth and let it have its day.

posts: 225   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2020
id 8692995
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Catwoman ( member #1330) posted at 8:49 PM on Wednesday, October 13th, 2021

My experience is that lying is often a method of controlling a person or an outcome.

You control the person if they don't have complete information to make decisions (some small, some enormous) about their own lives.

You control the outcome if groups (say, an employer) doesn't have complete information to make decisions (some small, some enormous) about their business or future actions.

I have found people who lie often seek validation from other people who also lie. This way, they can insist that what they are doing is mainstream. My ex reveled in finding others who lied and would throw it in my face that so-and-so doesn't tell HIS wife everything.

A commitment to total honesty is very scary for someone who has become an accomplished and habitual liar. It is very difficult for them to change.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

posts: 32943   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2003   ·   location: Massachusetts
id 8693005
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gmc94 ( member #62810) posted at 12:21 AM on Thursday, October 14th, 2021

I put it in the "all of the above" kind of sphere. Sure, lying is a way to avoid conflict....And that the conflict avoidance thing is really just the surface. I don't like conflict either, but I'm not a habitual liar (overt or by omission).

Like SteadyChevy says, secrets and emotional intimacy are incompatible. Which leads me to - why is the liar unable to be emotionally intimate? And that's where, for me, attachment comes into play.

I also agree with Catwoman that it becomes a form of control.

Given the deets of my WH's infidelities, I think the secrets were equally - if not more - important than the ego kibble or sex... a song that goes something like:

- I avoid any conflict, which allows resentment to build and become the fertile soil to entitlement. Why not just lie and say "I love that new shelf" so that there is no conflict (and no need to expend any energy coming to compromise, which ain't always easy) ... then be pissed off every time I look at that shelf.... then hold onto that resentment... which I can then use to my advantage to rationalize other bad behavior – even if I know it’s harmful to my spouse (and devastating after dday)?

- Emotional distancing and self protection/preservation, with a side of self esteem. No one - including my spouse - will know the REAL me, who is worthless. Which also allows the liar to never have to look at their "real" selves. "I am who I project myself to be" rather than I addressing the underlying sense of being worthless AND a liar/secret keeper. And so long as I'm lying/keeping secrets, I am "safe" from someone not loving me bc they see who I REALLY am (which is worthless, which is why I lie, which makes me more worthless… for those who are also adulterers, quite the Hakuna Matata, IMO).

- I control things, without having to engage in conflict or other uncomfortable behavior. Knowledge IS power, so by having knowledge that I won’t share with you, I have an upper hand / power, again, without having to engage in anything related to conflict or otherwise emotionally uncomfortable. I KNOW things that you don’t, therefore I am in control… and, bonus! That sense of power gives an ego boost that reduces the underlying sense of worthlessness.

I’m sure there are more perspectives / benefits to the liar/secret keeper. I just don’t think it’s a cut & dry as conflict avoidance, any more than I believe there is a quick "fix" to find peace in the Middle East. And, at the end of the day, my gut tells me attachment is where the fun begins!

[This message edited by gmc94 at 12:22 AM, Thursday, October 14th]

M >25yrs/grown kids
DD1 1994 ONS prostitute
DD2 2018 exGF1 10+yrEA & 10yrPA... + exGF2 EA forever & "made out" 2017
9/18 WH hung himself- died but revived

It's rude to say "I love you" with a mouthful of lies

posts: 3428   ·   registered: Feb. 22nd, 2018
id 8693059
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