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Do I tell the kids

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ChamomileTea posted 4/18/2021 20:00 PM

I have to be honest...I was alone until 26. My wife is the first and only woman I've ever had sex with. I've heard it said here that the men who did well with woman in their younger years do better at separating. I suppose that's true because I have never been good with women. I'm terrified. I think the fear of lack of sex scares me most. I'm a mumbling, stammering fool around beautiful women. I have no game whatsoever. I consider myself average looking, 6' 2' 200 lbs in above average shape, but deep down my self esteem believes that I am well below average. I don't drink, I don't like loud music, not sophisticated, shy as heck.

And that's okay... because you're NOT 26 anymore. You've grown up. Yours is stock that trades high because you're NOT a skeezy pick-up artist with "game". You're not vying for the short-sighted attentions of vapid teens and twenty-somethings this time. If you're smart, you won't be dating girls at all. You'll be dating women, and believe me, there are women out there who are going adore your authenticity. You just have to give it a chance, right?

It's so hard to be optimistic when you've been crushed like this. We all know it. But don't let your inner critic ride roughshod over you. Right now, he's in your ear telling you all the shit you can't do. But, inner critics are LIARS who feed on us when we're scared and down. Stand up to him. Correct his lies with TRUTH. You aren't a kid anymore. You're a grown man with a lot to offer the right partner and just because your WW couldn't appreciate it, doesn't mean she's right. No one else can set a value on YOU, and even if they somehow could, why would we care about the opinion of someone who is demonstrably dishonest and self-serving?? Fight back. Don't allow your inner critic to go unchallenged.

Booyah posted 4/18/2021 20:14 PM

Daniel, listen my friend, I feel your pain, I truly do!

It looks like your heart hasn't caught up to your brain.

You know divorcing her is the right thing to do but your heart isn't ready to let go.

I have to tell you how proud I am of you. You did everything you could to make this work. You tried to save your family and you were willing to offer your wife the gift of R but as you've found out she wasn't worthy of it.

I know there are so many emotions swirling around in your head and heart right now and most of them are tearing you apart.

Daniel, despite how much pain you're in right now, you and your kids are going to get through this. Keep the faith.

There's going to come a point in time, when you look back at this, and as crazy as it sounds, you'll be grateful it happened.

Why?

I think in time you're going to realize that your wife didn't truly value what she had in you. Eventually it won't matter why she's so messed up and why she did the things she did. Your journey with her has come to an end and TRUST me it's going to open a door to a new path and things you never envisioned.

Ephesians 3:20 says "he is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think".

I know you're hurting (we all know it).

Just wanted to tell you to keep the faith. God has a plan here and there's SO many awesome things that await you.

Plan a trip with your kids and shower them with love and go make some new memories.

Hang in there Daniel....brighter days are ahead!

Marz posted 4/18/2021 20:30 PM

Problem is, over the last 3-4 weeks the
STBXWW had me under her spell
again. I thought she was done with AP.

Only if you allow it.

guvensiz posted 4/18/2021 20:36 PM

I thought she was done with AP.

Did she verbally express this, or did you think so?

It explains your situation better what you say about your shyness, self-esteem and lack of experience. Everything makes more sense now; your hesitation about moving on and how she can behave so recklessly. I guess she had the initiative to start your relationship and get married, right?

Now you are afraid to take a step because you think you won't find someone. In this case, I don't want to be pushy, because the things you have to do don't fit your personality. At least we learned that the reason you are still there is not your love for her, but the lack of alternatives. I'm sure if you had a more sociable personality, you would have moved on already. I know it is not easy to change these in a short time. But you can focus on how you can overcome these issues with your IC.

It is unfair that divorce is so hard financially on BSs. In many of the threads I saw here, this stands out as the reason why most BSs continue to endure unhappy marriages. The aim of the law is to eliminate injustice, but there is an injustice here. Okay, adultery may not count as a crime, but even if we consider marriage to be a business, shouldn't the party break the contract be condemned to a compensation? Something must be done in your country's legal system for this to change.

DanielJK posted 4/18/2021 20:48 PM

Guvensiz

She verbally expressed it. Constantly denied contact with AP every time I asked. I proposed a post-nup at one point and she seemed intrigued. I said AP can't be in your life. She said he's not in my life.

Yes, the initiative to start the relationship came from her...she never pushed marriage, I asked.

Already discussing with IC, we were moving along, then Friday occurred and we were focused on that...but he has helped me set goals and take steps to achieve those goals...so working on it.

ChamomileTea

Thank you,, always uplifting to hear from you.

Booyah

I believe deep down that better days are ahead and I try to keep reminding myself not to let this define the rest of my life.

I'm as impatient as they come, can you make this go any faster?

[This message edited by DanielJK at 7:32 AM, April 19th (Monday)]

blahblahblahe posted 4/18/2021 22:07 PM

I have to be honest...I was alone until 26. My wife is the first and only woman I've ever had sex with.

So you believe she did you a favor? Honestly you did her the favor. I know you have trouble seeing that perspective, but it is more true than you can possibly believe.


I've heard it said here that the men who did well with woman in their younger years do better at separating.

Of course, because we realize the simple reality of there are plenty of fish in the sea. There are some even some special ones out there.

I suppose that's true because I have never been good with women. I'm terrified. I think the fear of lack of sex scares me most. I'm a mumbling, stammering fool around beautiful women. I have no game whatsoever.

Do you think game is what attracts women in the age group 40-50? "Game" has nothing to do with it. , "game" is for undergrads.

She verbally expressed it. Constantly denied contact with AP ever time I asked. I proposed a post-nup at one point and she seemed intrigued. I said AP can't be in your life. She said he's not in my life.

She appears very talented at deception, covering her tracks and outright lying, one might be excused for believing she is quite experienced in this behavior.

[This message edited by blahblahblahe at 10:08 PM, April 18th (Sunday)]

Adira posted 4/19/2021 00:53 AM

Why can’t I be like some of the others here, Mr. Flibble, Absolon, Spaceghost…who pulled themselves out of infidelity immediately.
Because you're not them...and that's perfectly okay. Everyone moves through infidelity trauma at their own pace.
I’m going on a year since dday…I danced like a monkey, I tried everything…I still had hope right up until Thursday 4/15/2021. Some say it’s the pick me dance on steroids; I think I did the nuclear pick me dance.
I can relate. For 3 years I gave everything I had, time & again to my idiot WH & he simply didn't value it. I had to hit rock bottom before I realised walking away is not something I want to do, it's what I HAVE to do.
I'm a mumbling, stammering fool around beautiful women. I have no game whatsoever. I consider myself average looking, 6' 2' 200 lbs in above average shape, but deep down my self esteem believes that I am well below average. I don't drink, I don't like loud music, not sophisticated, shy as heck.
When I read this I don't think inexperienced fool, I think genuine & real. Any woman worth her salt would take shy & sober over a smooth talking peacock any day. Because, substance.

[This message edited by Adira at 12:57 AM, April 19th (Monday)]

Bigger posted 4/19/2021 04:30 AM

I started a thread in the General forum a few days ago about fantasy versus reality. I strongly encourage you to read that thread with your recent posts on this thread in mind. That might help you understand why your situation is different to some others.

DanielJK posted 4/19/2021 07:43 AM

Thanks again for the support. It's encouraging to come here and read. I really need it right now.

I know deep down that things will work out and I will meet someone new. I just want it to happen yesterday.

Adira

I had to hit rock bottom before I realised walking away is not something I want to do, it's what I HAVE to do.

I feel like I hit rock bottom on Friday...I hope I hit rock bottom, don't know how I can go any lower. But...

I know I should feel nothing but contempt and disgust for her at this point, but I don't...what the hell is wrong with me?

Butforthegrace posted 4/19/2021 08:14 AM

I have to be honest...I was alone until 26. My wife is the first and only woman I've ever had sex with. I've heard it said here that the men who did well with woman in their younger years do better at separating. I suppose that's true because I have never been good with women. I'm terrified.

My "sex number" is in the mid-two digits. I got married in my 30's. Quite a bit of my "number" occurred in my late 20's.

I'm still terrified of women. Your feelings are normal.

Bigger posted 4/19/2021 09:08 AM

DanielJK

IMHO there are very few instances where divorcing as the first step to creating a new romantic relationship with the then-ex works out. Of the posters you mention one is sort-of-sometimes-maybe trying for that but frankly I would think that nearly 45 pages and still just as married but not married is not something that could or should be considered decisive or even positive. There is one contributor there that says he did exactly what is being attempted and I’m not doubting his story, but I think it’s the exception rather than a viable option.
I do know of people who have divorced and then later on started a relationship together. Even remarried. But it seldom starts with the divorce as a conscious decision on that path.

When people throw out suggestions that you divorce because you can always remarry her I think they tend to overlook the pure financial and business aspect of divorce.

Divorce is serious. For some strange reason owning half of what you own on paper always feels somehow less than having that half in hand. Like if you and WW have a 200k home then somehow mentally calculating that you “own” half of 2000k feels better than having 100k and no house. Furthermore – when you have paid for transfer of lease, refinancing, legal fees, taxes on savings withdrawals, paying off joint cards (and so on and so on) that 100K might be more like 80k.

Theoretically that goes for EVERYTHING: Savings, pension, 401k, her debts, your debts, cars… Every dot made and all the t’s crossed. Divorce isn’t an unfair process – it just feels that way.

Imagine this scenario: Let’s just imagine you two in all honesty and frankness decide to divorce to see if you could use that as a base to reconcile…
Even if you had all the reason in the world to believe she’s being honest… Just like you believed she was honest the first time (and the second time) she told you the affair was over… Even if SHE was totally 100% committed to the idea – sort of like she was 100% committed to the marriage when she said “I do”…

Would you be willing to risk what is legally yours based on some hope of reconnecting, remembering that legally there are no bounds containing you or her?
Would you be OK dealing with your debt next years because you wanted to be “fair” and nice while she’s on a cruise with her lover?
Would you want to be in the basement (in lieu of the hard financial action of dividing assets in a true way) wondering what’s causing the creaking in your celling? Directly above your old master-bedroom? Think you will say hi to the OM when he greets you out the window, drinking his first cup of coffee wearing your old robe while you mow the lawn?
Think that maybe 2-3 years down the line – when you finally realize the futility – that the nice woman you just met will find it so enticing getting meeting your ex when visiting you?


I NEVER advocate an intentionally acrimonious divorce. NEVER!
If your wife decides she wants the infidelity over you I would NEVER suggest you make things harder than they need to be. I simply suggest you deal with this with reality rather than fantasy.

You mention not feeling hate for your wife. That’s fine. That’s great. IF your wife insists on staying in infidelity while you move on then I hope you two become ideal coparents. I hope that at your daughter’s graduation you can sit in the same aisle, both be at the table of honor if they marry (with your respective new spouses if that’s the case) and so on. But I doubt you will take joint vacations or share Thanksgiving together. Divorce is not hate – it’s simply separating your once-entwined lives. You don’t replace love with hate – you replace it with indifference.

sisoon posted 4/19/2021 11:10 AM

Ah, Daniel. There's nothing wrong with taking a year, or more, to figure out the best solution you can get for yourself and your kids. You're making a decision for the next 40+ years of your life. It's worth putting some time into deciding.

My bet is that the folks who make choices that are both quick and healthy usually have more consistent info than you did, until Friday.

So stop beating yourself up about your handling of your W's infidelity. I know that's hard to do, but it would be good for you to stop.

*****

Your past, like everybody else's, is your prologue. You can't predict your future, but you've got some good externals - tall, not overweight, better than average fitness.

Your internals - beating yourself up about everything you are - are in rough shape, but the more you learn to love yourself, the more attractive you're going to be as a human being.

I am so delighted to read that other men are terrified of women. I like women a lot, but they idea of finding a new partner terrifies me, too.

Funny thing, though, I've read statements from a number of women who aren't all that certain of their own ability to build a new They may be confident they can find a sex partner pretty easily, but a new relationship is different from sex.

*****

Life is risky. You've embarked on a course of action that looks good for you and your kids to SI, and we have a lot of experience. You've said, IIRC, that it feels right to you.

It's not an easy course of action, but change is usually difficult in any case.

*****

I agree fully with Bigger on the idea of D with a goal of getting back together.

I'd add that I have a very hard time seeing how an xWS can build trust more easily after D than without D.

I can see that behavior during the D could build some trust - but if the WS is a good candidate for remarriage immediately after D, that WS is almost certainly a good candidate for R, so why not go directly to R? Why take the detour through D, a detour that is expensive in time, money, energy, and emotion?

*****

Back to Daniel - you're loving, lovable, and capable. You're about as loving, lovable, and capable as everyone else.

The only other thing you can ask of yourself is to recognize that you're loving, lovable, and capable. That's very hard for some of us, but it's doable.

BTW, you look like an introvert. My W is an introvert, and I can't express how attractive I find her because of her introversion. She has found a lot of solace from a book called The Introvert Advantage, and I recommend it to you.

gmc94 posted 4/19/2021 11:27 AM

So stop beating yourself up about your handling of your W's infidelity. I know that's hard to do, but it would be good for you to stop.
Yup. Funny, at my last IC session I mentioned how some folks seem to beat themselves up about .... beating themselves up [raises hand].

I suggest trying to stop that self beating about how you responded to the A, or why you still care about your WS (easier said than done, I get that)

I'm projecting here, but I'm finding that a lot for me comes down to SELF respect. I stopped sleeping with WH months ago. Not bc I don't enjoy sex (and Lord knows there have been many times I've wanted to capitulate), but bc I don't have sex with people who don't respect ME. It's not "about" him or the As or the M or anything but that simple, straightforward place: I don't want to be someone that puts my self respect at risk - even for things I enjoy. Even for things I otherwise feel sad about. Because diminishing my own worth and self respect hurts ME.

I don't know, but I do think this concept is a sort of a seed for the self love that so many of us (WS, BS, or just plain old folks) need to grow. Sing it like Aretha would....

Godspeed.

EllieKMAS posted 4/19/2021 11:41 AM

She verbally expressed it. Constantly denied contact with AP every time I asked. I proposed a post-nup at one point and she seemed intrigued. I said AP can't be in your life. She said he's not in my life.

Yes, the initiative to start the relationship came from her...she never pushed marriage, I asked.

Just take the lesson here - cheaters LIE. ALL. THE. TIME. About all the things. For no reason and any reason. I learned that one the very hard way too 9 months into false R and it clipped me at the knees even though I "knew" he was a liar and was not to be trusted.

At this point, just assume that if air is coming out of her liehole it is not to be believed.

I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but you are doing well DJK. Just take all of this one step at a time and it will be in the rearview before you know it!

Tigersrule77 posted 4/19/2021 11:41 AM

DJK, you stated earlier that you "hoped" that physical distance will help. I can tell you that it does. It will likely allow you to focus more on yourself, what YOU want to do with your time, what you want to eat, etc. It is very difficult to break your patterns and to separate your emotions when you are seeing the person every day.

It will be easier. I wish you luck in your househunting.

And again, don't beat yourself up because you didn't react the same as some others. You are not them, and that is OK. Your circumstances are different from everyone else's (maybe quite similar but not the same). You did what you thought was best. You've learned from your mistakes and are moving forward as best you can.

Stay strong

EllieKMAS posted 4/19/2021 11:54 AM

I'm a mess at the moment. But I hear you on the dating...maybe end of summer.
DJK I will offer some advice on this one too.

Don't be in a hurry to jump back in to dating. Do you. Hang out with your girls (maybe plan some of your own road trips with them). Work on fixing YOU. Dating for you right now or any time in the near future wouldn't be good IMHO, not for you or for any partner you find yourself with because you ARE still a mess - and it's okay that you are! Dealing with a marriage ending is like dealing with a death. There's a grieving that has to happen and it takes as long as it takes so be patient with yourself and with the process.

My D was finalized 12/2019 and I am still not dating and TBH not even interested really. I am working on me and enjoying the hell out of my very simple existence that is free of drama and bullshit. For me, it's gonna take someone pretty exceptional to make me want to adjust my status quo.

Dranth posted 4/19/2021 11:58 AM

"Game" has nothing to do with it. , "game" is for undergrads.

Let me just add to this, after what I have been through, if I was even considering being with someone and they showed the slightest hint of being susceptible to that kind of crap I would run the other direction as fast as humanly possible.

Westway posted 4/19/2021 12:03 PM

Daniel, first off... stop watching the GPS. Stop obsessing on it and hurting yourself. That is just pain shopping. Turn that thing off.

Second, I know you feel like you have hit rock bottom. But you know what the good side to that is? You can only go up from here. Let me tell you from experience that your life is only going to improve from this point on. Yes, you will hurt for a long, long time. But if you stay true to yourself, concentrate on your own needs, and work on becoming the best man and dad you can be, you will come out on top in this.

It will seem like she has gotten one over on you, and she will do everything she can to humiliate you and twists the knife. You combat that by ignoring her, cutting off all contact except where it concerns the kids, and taking the high road. One day, many months from now, you will wake up and the pain will be greatly diminished, you won't be thinking about her every waking hour, and life will start opening up to you again.

Take care of yourself, be kind to yourself, and stay close to those who love and support you. You got this man. You can make it through stronger and better than you were before.

Whenever a door closes, two or more doors open. This is true. It really is.

[This message edited by Westway at 12:05 PM, April 19th (Monday)]

DanielJK posted 4/19/2021 20:42 PM

Westway

I hear you in the GPS...I wasn't really pain shopping. Here's the deal...I can handle living together while the divorce is in process and one of us is looking for a place to live. She told me she was no longer messing around with AP. However...if she was still messing around with AP then I don't want to be anywhere near her. Friday confirmed it...now I don't want to be anywhere near her. It's like Bigger's comment above about hearing the floor creaking (God that's disturbing). I want to get away as soon and as far as I can.

I mentioned above that I have a condo lined up...attorney put the kibosh on that. She says I would be responsible for full child support during that period and STBXWW doesn't have to let me back in the house in June.

I'm fucked. I have to live in the house while STBXWW goes to visit her boyfriend...this sucks.

Sisoon

There's nothing wrong with taking a year, or more, to figure out the best solution

I don't want to go without sex for a year. I don't think I can make it. I don't know how others here do it. Maybe I'm a sex addicted, maybe I'm addicted to the female body parts? I absolutely love the female form. Not sure i can make it a year.

Dranth

I know...in see women fawn over that shit all the time though. My STBXWW started with AP because if his cool mountain biking photo on facebook...geez...I see women go the the bad boy all the time. I just have to roll my eyes sometimes.

gmc94

I know. I often wonder about the self respect and dignity. What is wrong with me?

My STBXWW and I were still sharing a bed together...she has always slept naked...it's hard to resist.

Ellie

I know. It's weird that i still believed her...I still believed her...i have a hard time writing that...I still believed her.. and i am nowhere near ready to date.

Tigersrule

I'm screwed...I can't leave until I find a house or apartment. I'm stuck. This is just not fair.

Bigger and Sisoon

Thanks for your input. Sisoon i like the book recommendation...I will order it. You both always provide deep and profound insight. I know you put a lot of effort into supporting people here, it is appreciated.

[This message edited by DanielJK at 8:43 PM, April 19th (Monday)]

Bigger posted 4/20/2021 03:14 AM

Westway’s point about the GPS is very valid, especially if your relationship with your soon to be ex wayward wife is turning sour. If discovered it can be much more of a liability than any benefit it can offer you.

Try this line-of-thought: You know she’s seeing OM, you know she told you otherwise but hid the truth. Simply assume she’s still seeing him. If she wants to R and pause or stop the divorce then it’s her role to convince you the affair is over.

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