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perception vs. truth

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goalong posted 4/20/2021 14:09 PM

Sorry to jump in and glad that you are recovering from this betrayal. However I feel bad for OBS because she may be in a worse situation mentally and operationally. I do not feel good about your showing her the evidence of pos's continuing betrayal. I hope you do your best to help her recover from her present dilemma to the best of your ability, especially if she does not have much support or resources on her own. Her obsession with writing to WF again and again means she is desperate and also the POS may be still seeing WF. Again I am not blaming you but from the way she reacts to the situation it seems she does not have many options and with two small kids she may be in lot of difficulties

[This message edited by goalong at 2:50 PM, April 20th (Tuesday)]

elKAPPYtan posted 4/20/2021 14:27 PM

I read this entire thread, gotta just say you handeled yourself remarkably well.

I think I remember the idea of sharing SI with the OBS came up and you thought otherwise...

I wonder if now would be a decent time to point her in this direction.

grubs posted 4/20/2021 14:35 PM

I re-read the letter. I did not see anything in it that warrants a "He will pay" response.

I don't know what sort of vengeance he can rain down upon you...

I am glad to hear you are pursuing therapy. I hope it helps and that you can discover, at some point in that long process, a degree of self-honesty for the first time in your life. The structures around you have enabled, and continue to enable, your behaviour so even if you manage to address the great empty caverns in your soul, you will have to unshackle yourself from the chains of your family.

I remember reading it and thinking daddy wasn't going to be happy about exWGf being told he was a chain on her. Not really anything bad, but to the entitled having a peasant tell you you're not flawless is just not stood for.

KingofNothing posted 4/20/2021 14:46 PM

Hello, Absalom. I like your profile name. Is it a Faulkner reference or from the Book of Samuel?

“O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! Would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son!”

I have found your thread very well written and engrossing. "Blake" seems like a classic entitled mess, but her dad is coming off as a dime store villain. I don't understand his reaction to your comment about taking responsibility at all. What insulted him in particular? I'm missing the context.

Later, he's glowering and threatening you with.. what exactly? That you don't want to be with his daughter any more? You can't force people together if they don't want to both be together. He can glower and twirl his mustache as much as he likes, but the fact is his daughter is an adult and so are you. Is he prepared to look ridiculous?

Stevesn posted 4/20/2021 15:30 PM


Glad you got confirmation from MoH of her support and your sanity. She is someone that I believe to be a solid person for letting you know she understands and is on your side. I am glad she was willing to tell you that.

I believe FIL to be full of hot air, but perhaps you know more specifics of things he might try to do. He’s a Narcissist so ya never know I guess. My only recommendation, and not a strong one, is to consult with a lawyer to ensure you know what tools are available to defend yourself. Probably and hopefully not needed. But best to be prepared.

What I do want to address is your future relationships. No one including you can know how you are going to feel. You won’t know until you are in your next relationship. And right now you should perhaps take time and work on healing. I would recommend you work with a trauma therapist. You are a strong guy, but betrayal like this can bring anyone to their emotional knees.

When you are ready I believe you will find love with someone completely different. You should think about the signs you saw, if any, during your relationship. There are all different types of people out there. I will tell you, most don’t cheat. Many do, but most Dont.

If you look at my tag line below you’ll see the infidelity I suffered from years ago was similar to yours, albeit perhaps less dramatic.

I was ready to pop the question. She had cheated early on in the relationship but claimed we hadn’t made any type of commitment yet so I relented. But i could tell she liked to flirt and seemed to have wandering eyes. 2 years later when I caught her starting both and EA and PA w a law school classmate, I walked away completely, especially when she begged me to be able to “date both of us”.

A year later I found the love of my life. More beautiful outside and inside in every way. She was a solid person who focused inwardly on us instead of looking outwardly all the time. I rarely thought of the ex and still don’t till this day except as a side note to my life.

So as I say, you don’t know how you will react. Don’t worry about it right now. Perhaps start looking at this as an exercise in evaluating the character of the people you know in your life. Figure out what’s important to you in a partner.

And when you find the right one, also peak at who her parents are and what they stand for. It will give you some insight into who you are choosing as a life partner.

Take care.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 3:39 PM, April 20th (Tuesday)]

paboy posted 4/20/2021 15:56 PM

With regards to your EWF's father, my thoughts would be not to poke the bear. Let him calm down. He has a lot more to lose in the public eye than you. Let both him and the daughter become a quickly fading image in your back mirror.

You have better things to look forward to.

With your concerns regarding moving on to the next relationship, bring this up in IC.

rugswept posted 4/20/2021 16:00 PM

FIL is most put out by the fact that his darling little princess, beauty and goddess of the universe, has been outed as a cheater. Now she'll get plenty of attention: from droolers and trollers. FIL wanted her reputation intact. That's what he doesn't realize: now it is intact. That is her real reputation.

The sooner you're out the better. And, yes, you were so decisive and clear throughout. Your actions are a lesson to new members and seasoned members on SI.

[This message edited by rugswept at 4:01 PM, April 20th (Tuesday)]

Absolon posted 4/20/2021 16:20 PM

@Butforthegrace: I disagree that it feels like an error to have sent the note, for two reasons: one is that based on the behaviour of both ExWF and FiL, they would have continued to harass me without my having drawn that clear marker in the sand; and two is that the note is a very clear and unemotional marker, one that I will not cringe at years from now, and so if for some dreadful reason I do have to proceed down a legal pathway, an informal ‘cease and desist’ note like that has to exist. But … I do agree about it truly being my last contact with that family – ever.

@grubs: Good analysis. I have a great job and am tied to where I live because of it. Can’t / won’t reveal any more – sorry! Agreed too, that it appears that OBS has gone the R route with the AP. Great call (in your follow-up) on the ‘Feudal Lord / Peasants’ dynamic inherent in FiL’s approach to the world. Made me laugh.

@steadychevy: Thanks for your support and wise words. Your remarks, as well as others, have in fact quite soothed me because it has made me realize how much hot air and puffery this guy expends whenever he faces the slightest adversity. Fortunately he can’t really have too much influence in my professional field (if any?). He loves being the Father Protector figure for his Little Girl, and all that nonsense, so I think this is more of a bit of Tough Guy Performativity and not something over which I should lose much sleep. And good point about consulting my lawyer, just to be prepared.

@Freeme: Wise words, too. As for Maid of Honour trying to pick me up … I would be so lucky! I have always liked her, platonically of course, and she is beautiful inside and out. Though she did say she wants to take me for lunch in May, when she is back from a trip…
But she is genuine friends with ExWF, which puzzles me when I consider their contrasting characters. That said, I think ExWF is more authentic and ‘real’ with MoH than many of her other relationships (myself included, of course), combined.
If anything, I have picked up more attraction / flirtation vibes from OBS – but I imagine that is ‘trauma bonding’, which I read about recently.

@goalong: Not being defensive, so I just want to ask what you mean when you say I shouldn’t have shared evidence with OBS of AP’s continuing betrayal. What you are suggesting runs contrary to the advice of most people here. Can you elaborate on this?

@elKAPPYtan: Thanks for your words; and yes, I have suggested this place to OBS (subsequent to, initially, wanting to keep SI to myself). But she said she wasn’t interested in joining a community like this. At least, right now she is not interested.

@RexNihilo: Amazing name, ha. (I am going with your alternative name.) Alas I named myself after the comedically useless, lecherous, unsuccessful lover in Chaucer’s very bawdy Miller’s Tale, one of the western canon's original tales on cuckoldry. He is Absolon, as I spell it here. I have a ton of crap to deal with in my life right now, but I do possess a dark sense of humour and … well, it helps.

As for the father being as I described, and whether that seems a little .. contrived? Sure. I get you. Of course, it is absolutely cathartic for me to write with some … writerly license about people who have hurt and wronged me. But, alas, I really have not been exaggerating what I have been describing. He truly is like that, and behaves like a handsome and patrician, but nevertheless corrupt and sinister judge or senator in a Grisham novel. Away from his public persona, he has always been a drama-king and emotionally volatile. And if his little girl is ever impugned, in any form, he morphs into—yes, as you describe—a comedic villain.

@Stevesn: Thank you so much for your kind, wise words, which fill me with considerable hope – all the more given your subsequent success. Above all, what I take from it is that: the therapy I am undergoing is obviously a good thing; and, especially before I begin any kind of new relationship, I need to honestly unpack the one that has just been terminated, as I believe there were in fact innumerable signs, symbols, thoughts and feelings that I ignored both out of ignorance and, if I am being really hard on myself, out of denial.

@paboy and @rugswept: Great, perceptive comments – both. Rug, you’re right: this is her real reputation.

Absolon posted 4/20/2021 16:34 PM

@KingofNothing: I realize I missed a question of yours. You were confused by why my remarks to FiL about taking responsibility for your actions—something I learned before I was 13—were potentially insulting to him.

I believe there are a number of reasons he was insulted by this:

• I was suggesting that by him taking responsibility for his daughter’s infidelity (based on his own marital indiscretions), he was very dangerously and foolishly absolving his daughter of something for which, let’s be honest, a grown woman in her early 30s should take responsibility!
• I was implying that his daughter, intrinsically as well as within the dysfunctional bonds of their family unit, was chronically incapable of being able to own up to her mistakes.
• And by saying I had learned, before 13 years of age, that a) actions have consequences and that if b) those actions are harmful to others you should c) take responsibility for the harm you have caused (if you agree you were in the wrong).

Thus -- my implying that this was all something that a 13 year-old could grasp, and yet he and his daughter could not so do, was, in that context, something meant to insult him.

[This message edited by Absolon at 4:50 PM, April 20th (Tuesday)]

GoldenR posted 4/20/2021 18:18 PM


As far as ex future FIL making you pay....smmfh. I fucking HATE bullies. And that's what he is, a nothing special, run-of-the-mill, common bully. If I knew who he was, I GUARANTEE I could distract him to the point of you being yesterday's news. I'm very good at that. Lol!

But, alas...

I say keep a VAR on you at all times. If he ever approaches you, turn it on that way you have evidence of everything, be it threats or actions.

RocketRaccoon posted 4/20/2021 21:03 PM

I believe there are a number of reasons he was insulted by this:

There is also one more reason, that your XFiL cannot stand being lectured to, as he has always been in the one in control.

He 'humbly' offered you some tasty morsels to stay with his daughter, and most people would gladly gobble them up. The very fact that you did not grab that offer insulted him. He is not used to people saying 'no' to him.

Also, by not taking his offering, he lost control of the situation, which further irritated him. He is used to having total control of everything.

grubs posted 4/20/2021 21:31 PM

Wise words, too. As for Maid of Honour trying to pick me up … I would be so lucky! I have always liked her, platonically of course, and she is beautiful inside and out

There's no hope there. If she's truly meaning to stay friends with xWGF, she would not be the good person she is if she pursued or allowed a relationship to develop with you. A good friend doesn't date that friends long term ex's. Even if the split was amicable. Certainly not where the friend desired the relationship to continue.

Westway posted 4/21/2021 09:29 AM

Apparently Ex-WF was ‘devastated beyond belief’ and went to her room and was ‘inconsolable’ for the rest of the night. It is hard to type this with a straight face, because I realize that I could be describing a 13-year old upon hearing that they can’t have a sleepover with their bff on a Saturday night.

Yeah... she's realizes that she just doesn't have it in her to be a mate to a quality man. It must be sad to have that revelation about yourself.

[This message edited by Westway at 9:35 AM, April 21st (Wednesday)]

ronjs posted 4/21/2021 10:18 AM

From many years of intensive, professional care of all types of people, let me give you some advice.

Never under estimate anyone!! A mistake many people make.

Watch your back - you describe him as emotionally labile, hinting he is grandiose and narcissistic.

There are many ways people get revenge. Some of these ways cannot be traced back to the perpetrator.

The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

Some people with possible narcissistic/sociopathic traits scheme for pay back.

A friendly, concerned warning.

Take care!

KingofNothing posted 4/21/2021 10:48 AM


Thanks for clarifying-- I'm familiar with the Miller's Tale and honestly I didn't make that immediate connection for some odd reason.

hus swyved was this carpenteris wyf,
For al his kepyng and his jalousye,
And Absolon hath kist hir nether ye,
And Nicholas is scalded in the towte.
This tale is doon, and God save al the rowte!

Now that you point it out it makes perfect sense, although you weren't doing the swyving in this case.

Thank you as well for clarifying Brooke's father's reaction to your lunch discussion. You made points I thought were obvious, that a 30ish year old woman ought to take personal responsibility for her actions and own up to the fact that she is capable of intentionally causing another person pain through selfishness. That's just a fact that seemed obvious to itself, and most rational parents would be agreeing with you, not defending her, but I shouldn't expect rationality in infidelity-- I know better. :-)

My ex-FIL (God rest his soul) was a less complicated guy. He came to me with similar motives when we announced we were separating with intent to divorce when my XW and I arrived at our dramatic parting of the ways. He just wanted to know the whys and hows and if it wasn't salvageable. I told him "I still love ______, but I just can't stand her boyfriend (possibly boyfriends). I feel like their presence in this relationship might inhibit my future growth." I don't think he understood it until that sunk home. A long way around the pole to say I was trying to make a similar point about owning responsibility for doing wrong, and he grasped it immediately. I guess self-evident truths might baffle people with narcissistic. traits.

Anyway, I appreciate the amplification about her father but I agree with most other people on here-- he's full of it, unless he actually plans to hire goons to work you over or something... for .. why?

As my grandma often said, People are funny. You never know what they'll do.

Sceadugenga posted 4/21/2021 11:48 AM

Anyway, I appreciate the amplification about her father but I agree with most other people on here-- he's full of it, unless he actually plans to hire goons to work you over or something... for .. why?

That's a very sober thought. Paraphrasing one of the songs by Rush "the greatest thing to fear is fear itself". Cover your bases adequately, but don't let him intimidate you. Otherwise, your living in fear WILL BE the price he wants you to pay.

Chances are that under the mask of worldly power and grandeur he is just full of shit. Like a small-time crook walking around town and telling anyone and everyone what horrible things they'll do to you for whatever rattled their cage. Yet, they always make sure to conveniently disappear when you're around :-)

You've already shown that you're not easily bought or intimidated, so perhaps I needn't be telling you this.

GoldenR posted 4/21/2021 12:02 PM

Rush > FDR

Sceadugenga posted 4/21/2021 12:19 PM

Rush > FDR

You're right - I should've known better. Looks like I'm better versed in rock lyrics than in American history and culture :-)

Buffer posted 4/21/2021 15:19 PM

Brother, communication is key with OBS, let her know her Hubby is gaslighting as it takes two to make the conscious decisions in their A. And that it is a 50-50 responsibility and accountability on both sides not just ExWf.

As for daddy dearest, document everything, consult legal advice due to your perceived threat of his statements.
Hold your head high and keep moving forward with your goals.
One day at a time.
I also look for humour some being the dark side. It is a trait

ramius posted 4/21/2021 15:58 PM


Go a song you might like. It’s basically the soundtrack to your letter.


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