Newest Member: Loyalandbetrayed

Just Found Out :
Found out 1 week ago today..long story

Topic is Sleeping.
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Westway ( Member #71747) posted at 11:10 PM on Wednesday, November 11th, 2020

.I can’t stop picturing them together and making out in her car. That movie just plays over and over in my head

I don't get it... you can't get the idea of him kissing her out of your head?

You and your wife were swingers. You said that while she was obeying the rules you really enjoyed it. So then I take it you personally saw...up close and personal... your wife getting railed by other dudes and her going down on them and riding them and such , and THOSE images don't stick in your mind? Really?

Not trying to make light of your pain here, but I would not expect a guy who was in the lifestyle with his wife to be affected too much by mind movies. Am I wrong here? Tell me because I never swung...swang… whatever...

[This message edited by Westway at 5:13 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8607973
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 Greenman (original poster New Member #75840) posted at 11:24 PM on Wednesday, November 11th, 2020

don't get it... you can't get the idea of him kissing her out of your head.

You and your wife were swingers. You said that while she was obeying the rules you really enjoyed it. So then I take it you personally saw...up close and personal... your wife getting railed by other dudes and her going down on them and riding them and such , and THOSE images don't stick in your mind? Really?

Not trying to make light of your pain here, but I would not expect a guy who was in the lifestyle with his wife to be affected too much by mind movies. Am I wrong here? Tell me because I never swung...swang… whatever...

One major rule was no kissing so there’s that but yes even though I have seen them fuck there was consent at that time..now it was lying and fucking and kissing. Maybe my movies are just more realistic because I’ve seen part of it before? I don’t know but they are for sure there every few min. Seems like the same scene over and over

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8607980
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 Greenman (original poster New Member #75840) posted at 11:27 PM on Wednesday, November 11th, 2020

You and your wife were swingers.

Also I don’t consider us particularly swingers as it was just with 1 other couple but I know where your coming from.

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8607981
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Buffer ( Member #71664) posted at 11:29 PM on Wednesday, November 11th, 2020

First off brother, sorry about her cheating.

I am not fully across the swinging bit; but am chiming in.

Keep the legal advice open as well as the option to D. Ensure she knows that D is not off the table.

She and you have done the STD checks, so well done. But it wouldn't hurt to seek Dr and IC for both of you regarding anger, sleep, etc.

How has she justified to you that breaking the boundaries and rules were not applicable for her, but just for you? Cheaters lie, they lie about everything.Keep contact with the OBS.

Can you get your WW to pay for her car to be cleaned professionally or can she buy a new one?

As Westway asked, how is she going to re build the trust?

She needs to write out a full emotional and physical time line of her A. Including her traits to betray your and her children's trust.

Exercise, eat well talk to the children they want mum, but you are their dad so build that back up.

I hear swingers that break the rules don't really recover, but I am not versed there.

One day at a time.

Buffer

Buffer

posts: 1191   ·   registered: Sep. 24th, 2019   ·   location: Australia
id 8607982
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Westway ( Member #71747) posted at 12:02 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Also I don’t consider us particularly swingers as it was just with 1 other couple but I know where your coming from.

I guess I misunderstood. I thought I read there was a big group of several couples.

Me: 52;

XWW: 50 y.o. serial cheater

Married 22 years, Together 24
2 Daughters: aged 16 and 20
DDay: 9/20/19
Divorced 12/03/20.

posts: 1366   ·   registered: Oct. 3rd, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8607989
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oldtruck ( Member #62540) posted at 12:20 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

one other couple as in there where you and your WW and two

other couples, six people?

i hope your WW realizes and admits that she cheated and had

an affair with the OM and his wife. what she did was not

swinging.

posts: 1383   ·   registered: Feb. 2nd, 2018
id 8607996
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 Greenman (original poster New Member #75840) posted at 12:38 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

one other couple as in there where you and your WW and two

other couples, six people?

i hope your WW realizes and admits that she cheated and had

an affair with the OM and his wife. what she did was not

swinging.

1 other couple. 4 people total. Me, ww, op, opw. Ww had affair with op and opw without my knowledge. WWhad affair w/op without mine or opw’s knowledge. I told her I want a detailed timeline of events but she said she can remember exact dates. She said to best of her memory. 1 time April and where, 2 times may and where, etc...I wasn’t to thrilled with that answer but can understand not remembering when...in the beginning I was home working during some of them and she would tell me she was going to grocery store/walk, etc and shed go and fuck him. She has no way to look back thru text as it was done on Snapchat and they auto delete. She has deleted op on snap, but wants to keep it as she does have bunch of other good friends on it. The 3ways all happened in the last 2 months. Ganged up and betrayed by all 3 other participants. She is aware this was an affair and not “swinging”. Currently there are only 4 people that know of any of this(both couples). Her mother and my parents know she cheated but nobody has told any other friends as we don’t really want it out there that we were “swinging”. It’s going to be difficult as we all share the same small group of friends so we will see each other at mutual friends parties and things.

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8608002
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SnowToArmPits ( Member #50943) posted at 1:10 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

She can’t give me a good reason of why it continued after everyone quit.

Your wife is LYING to you. It's a mystery as to why it continued? Bullshit.

She kept fucking this guy because she wanted to get laid, liked the attention, felt like a 20 yr old. Thinks he's sexier than you.

I don't know how you fix this. Move?

Think you might have to do this: lay it on the line, monogamous going forward or you're looking for a new wife.

Sorry this blew up on you, don't take any shit from her.

posts: 343   ·   registered: Dec. 25th, 2015   ·   location: Canada
id 8608015
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survrus ( Member #67698) posted at 1:15 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Green,

Although I don't think I could get into swinging I feel really bad for you have three people betray you. It sounds more like when a groups of friends ostracizes you.

Are you sure your WW was not cheating with OM or OW or both before the swinging began and that it wasn't a setup to legitimize the cheating?

How do the OM and OW feel about what they did to you? I think you should expose them to their parents and grandparents There has to be some consequences for them.

You may have to move or get them to move by making them think you have gone psycho, I hope you kids are not friends.

posts: 1036   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8608016
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survrus ( Member #67698) posted at 1:21 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I completely get why the kissing bothers him more than other acts, it so intimate it's where physical and emotional love become one.

It's also no longer exclusive to BH and WW within their marriage.

Did you feel like the odd man out when the swinging was occuring, like OM and OW were more into WW than OW or WW was into you?

posts: 1036   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: USA
id 8608020
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 Greenman (original poster New Member #75840) posted at 1:56 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Are you sure your WW was not cheating with OM or OW or both before the swinging began and that it wasn't a setup to legitimize the cheating?

100% sure on this

completely get why the kissing bothers him more than other acts, it so intimate it's where physical and emotional love become one.

It's also no longer exclusive to BH and WW within their marriage.

Did you feel like the odd man out when the swinging was occuring, like OM and OW were more into WW than OW or WW was into you?]

Correct on kissing... on the last part only time I felt that was when we did MMF 3some with ww. Thought she was more into him then me during that but figured that was normal as he was the “new toy”. I mean I felt more into OW when we did MFF 3some. I liked the swinging for the most part and at 1 point just asked if we could go back to group stuff only. We did for a bit but it would only happen every 2-3months because of kids and everything so we went back to swapping spouses in homes. The last year it was just way to frequent. Often I’d ask my wife for sex one night and she’d be to tired or had headache or whatever, but then the next night she’d be ok if we swapped with them. That’s when I started getting depressed and started saying no to swapping a lot of the time when it came up. This kind of made everyone else in the group mad because it was always me saying no so I was the one deciding when it would or would not happen. I explained my feelings to everyone involved and a few months later is when we were supposedly putting a stop to it to remain friends. 1 of our main rules-feelings getting involved so stop now... The other couple was really into it and told us they were going to look for another couple if we were out.

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8608030
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 3:58 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Greenman sorry you are here. One thing with open relationships/swinging is that almost everybody has the rule "No feelings." This is a very hard rule to navigate around because it is playing with fire. I think the problem you had when you first started out swinging is that you did not branch out and only saw this one couple you were also texting/sexting them way to much if your wife did that to you basically adding oil onto the fire.

Your wife is also texting/sexting them, I am not sure how often she texts them but I can bet she was having an EA as well if she did not communicate with you as well in the swinger lifestyle. COMMUNICATION is very important in a non-monogamous relationship and your wife has failed that.

1. What has your wife done to assure you that she is a safe partner?

2. She is not a safe partner for any type of non-monogamous relationship and I would put that on hold for a long time until she matures. In swinger lifestyle SPOUSE should always be before the other person.

3. Has she seen a counselor to find her "whys"?

4. Also how long was the affair?

5. What was the reaction of the OBS? (She may have been in on it as well)

6.Has she written a NC letter to the OBS as well?

7. Have you asked the OM for a timeline?

Also I do not believe she cannot remember all the times she went behind your back and stabbed you as well if the affair was only a few months .

Also if possible you should print out Hufi Pufi post in the wayward side for your wife.

[This message edited by BigNoob at 10:35 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8608056
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Unhinged ( Member #47977) posted at 4:34 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Haven’t found any situation that is quite like mine so far...

I've read a few stories in the five plus years I've been here in which swinging lead to infidelity. I can't remember the individual members, sorry. While it may not be a very common story, it has happened. I'd imagine it probably happens more often than people would like to admit.

Ganged up and betrayed by all 3 other participants.

Brother, I really feel for ya. That's a lot of betrayal to survive.

If there's any chance for you and your wife to move forward together, I think you might want to curtail your social life for a while, especially if there's a good chance you'll run into this couple. I can't see much good happening from that.

Where do you see all of this going? Are you willing to give your wife and marriage a second chance or would rather divorce?

Heading towards divorce
D-Day April, 2015

"The Universe is not short on wake-up calls. We're just quick to hit the snooze button."
-Brene Brown

posts: 6361   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Colorado
id 8608069
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 Greenman (original poster New Member #75840) posted at 4:40 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

What has your wife done to assure you that she is a safe partner?

2. She is not a safe partner for any type of non-monogamous relationship and I would put that on hold for a long time until she matures. In swinger lifestyle SPOUSE should always be before the other person.

3. Has she seen a counselor to find her "whys"?

4. Also how long was the affair?

Also I do not believe she cannot remember all the times she went behind your back and stabbed you.

Yes the sexting was a big problem and I believe there was anEA going on with that. I was leery of doing that at first but just thought it would be part of the fun. It was pretty much a daily occurrence. We had a group chat but also allowed individual chatting/sexting/sending pics. No boundaries set there.(another mistake)

1. She did go get std test if that is what u mean by safe.

2. We will never engage in that kind of lifestyle again.

3. She is currently searching for an IC and reached out to one recommended by her dr.. she says there was a madness that took over and she didn’t really think of any of the feelings of anyone else. (This answer scares the shit out of me because how do I know this madness is gone and won’t come back)

4. The swinging was off and on for close to 5 yrs. the affair started in in April and ended(better have at least)last wed. So 8 months. She is aware if anything ever happens again. We are done on the spot, not even a sliver of a chance for R.

I’ve decided to reach out to the OM tomorrow to see if he’ll answer some questions i grilled my WW with to see if they match up. If anyone has experience-advice on this? Good idea or no? I haven’t talk to him much since besides telling him not to contact her and to fuck off.

She won’t admit it to me but the sex with him was way better from a pure sex/orgasm experience than anything I have given her.(Ive seen it first hand). I’ve asked if I will be able to fulfill her sexual needs for the rest of our life and she assures me I can.

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8608071
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 Greenman (original poster New Member #75840) posted at 4:44 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

Where do you see all of this going? Are you willing to give your wife and marriage a second chance or would rather divorce?

We both want to give it a 2nd chance. Also our kids and OM/Ow kids are friends so isn’t that just fucking fabulous. Sorry for all the cussing, not sure if ok on here-seen it in some other posts so assume it is, but it’s hard not to cuss about every thing right now

posts: 12   ·   registered: Nov. 11th, 2020
id 8608073
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Unhinged ( Member #47977) posted at 5:07 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I wouldn't worry about the language.

Heading towards divorce
D-Day April, 2015

"The Universe is not short on wake-up calls. We're just quick to hit the snooze button."
-Brene Brown

posts: 6361   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Colorado
id 8608081
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CatsNTats ( Member #66105) posted at 5:23 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I’m not saying I trust her on everything right now and still freak every time she gets a text or snap my mind starts racing wondering who that is.

Don't trust her on ANYTHING right now.

You said she has a lot of friends on Snap so she wants to keep it?

What's more important? Snap or her marriage?

Snap needs to go! Especially since that app is set up to delete messages and pics - RIGHT AFTER BEING VIEWED. I'm not going to repeat things everyone else has already told you - but that -- needs to be gone.

This definitely turned affair.

-Cats

Me:37 BW
Him:45 WH Deceased 10.20.19
Other D-Days: Feb 2016, August 2017, September 2018


If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck.

posts: 331   ·   registered: Sep. 6th, 2018
id 8608088
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TruthIsPower ( Member #75776) posted at 5:31 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

She did go get std test if that is what u mean by safe.

Greenman, Safe partner means fidelity, no more lies, following set boundaries, open communication, if you need your WS to provide passwords to devices, she must do it, etc. Those things/actions that will re-establish your trust and make YOU feel safe emotionally / physically with her and make you feel at peace going into the future.

Best of luck on this path!

"Stop giving people the reasons to love you. Not all will see the beauty of your soul. Those who know, those who know who you are, will love you with something fierce and never let you go. Those are the ones worth holding out for."

posts: 95   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2020   ·   location: US
id 8608090
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TruthIsPower ( Member #75776) posted at 5:37 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

You said she has a lot of friends on Snap so she wants to keep it?

What's more important? Snap or her marriage?

Snap needs to go!

This! And watch her how she would react, maybe your WW will come to you with this proposal.

Like my FWH told me that he was going to delete all SM accounts , and he did it in front of me. Those actions really show at least something IMO.

"Stop giving people the reasons to love you. Not all will see the beauty of your soul. Those who know, those who know who you are, will love you with something fierce and never let you go. Those are the ones worth holding out for."

posts: 95   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2020   ·   location: US
id 8608092
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BigNoob ( Member #75807) posted at 7:13 AM on Thursday, November 12th, 2020

I agree with everybody else that snapchat has to go like NOW. She can use another messenger app that saves texts/pictures.

I would look into transferring your kids out of school so you limit contact with the other couple. Do not allow any sleep over/playdates.

What is going on with the other OBS is she suffering the same thing as you or did she encourage the solo affair between her husband and your wife?

Does your wife still have contact with other OBS or OM at school?

posts: 207   ·   registered: Nov. 5th, 2020
id 8608110
Topic is Sleeping.
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