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Wayward Side :
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Topic is Sleeping.
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ISurvivedSoFar ( member #56915) posted at 4:41 PM on Sunday, November 1st, 2020

HO I really appreciate your honesty on this thread and your courage to reveal your situation and feelings. It is true - as I read through your comments I kept thinking it interesting that you are going through the typical BS emotional and mental meanderings. It doesn't matter that you were a WS. When it happens to you, it feels horrible, nonsensical, hard to justify and so forth. But as Mrs. Walloped said, it is easy to fall for anyone in infidelity because

It was about me and what I chose to get out of him. It was self-focused. Not other-focused.

That's the piece that we as BS's need to remember. It isn't about anyone but the WS. It is the way in which your H decided to handle the current situation. We could put a myriad of reasons behind the decision to betray but at the end of the day it is because the person doing the betraying wants to feel good in the moment from whatever is ailing them emotionally. Nothing else matters enough at the moment to change that behavior.

Then there is this.

These were bad coping. These were low integrity. Maybe we deserve each other.

Oh how I've thought of this. I've gone back and remember every ill I brought to others and questioned whether I deserved to be betrayed. But the truth goes back to what every BS is told in other parts of this forum. If the other person was that unhappy then they have an obligation to work through it honestly rather than feel better in a deceitful way.

I wonder if perhaps you can look at it differently. Each of you was doing the best you could at the time. Each of you rationalized a way in which doing this would be okay. Turns out both of you were wrong. So instead of "deserving" each other perhaps there is a level of understanding that can bring you two closer. That isn't to say that's what you should do. I'm just suggesting there may be a different way to look at this situation.

DDay Nov '16
Me: BS, a.k.a. MommaDom, Him: WS
2 DD's: one adult, one teen,1 DS: adult
Surviving means we promise ourselves we will get to the point where we can receive love and give love again.

posts: 2592   ·   registered: Jan. 15th, 2017
id 8604330
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 5:27 PM on Sunday, November 1st, 2020

Maybe we deserve each other.

Your world is literally upside down at this very moment, so I understand why you would write this down.

But what you already know is this:

No one ever deserves infidelity.

No one.

There is the line from the film Unforgiven that stays with me, on good days and horrible days, "Deserve has got NOTHING to with it."

And yet, we feel what we feel.

And yes logically I know that’s not how it is but I have to process these feelings that have nothing to do with logic.

The brain does get very scrambled with the trauma. You're looking for a hand hold on a cliff's edge, and there isn't much to hang on to.

If and when your husband steps up to own that pain he's been dodging since your confession (which should help him not need validation from nearby warm bodies), I think you have a really good chance to salvage the overall relationship.

Another aspect of the word 'deserve' is finding a way to earn each other's trust and good company -- for him to deserve your love.

More than ever, I believe good people are capable of bad things, it's what we do next that counts most. We can make it worse or better with each moment, with each choice.

Married 34+ years, together 40+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived
Restoration takes time.
"Circumstances don't make the man, they only reveal him to himself." ― Epictetus

posts: 4183   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: PNW. The adventure continues.
id 8604336
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Thissucks5678 ( member #54019) posted at 7:36 PM on Sunday, November 1st, 2020

I relived every bad choice I had ever made in my life thinking that karma had come to pay me back through my WH’s affair. It’s true, when I was young, I did terrible things. In my first marriage, my exh and I cheated on each other quite a bit. We were separated right around my 20th birthday. I thought for sure this was my payback for that and any cheating I did in high school.

It wasn’t, I didn’t deserve to be cheated on my husband. I had been nothing but loyal to him through our entire marriage. No one deserves that. You didn’t deserve this.

There are so many emotions you may feel in the coming weeks. We don’t call it a rollercoaster for nothing. I would love WH, hate him, be disgusted with him, want him next to me, want him far away, etc. I went back and forth on divorce for at least 2 years. I’m committed to reconciliation now, but the thought still crosses my mind every now and then. I don’t want a divorce at all, but I can tell you, that thought never crossed my mind before dday.

DDay: 6/2016

“Every test in our life makes us Bitter or Better. Every problem comes to Break Us or Make Us. The choice is ours whether to be Victim or Victor.” - unknown

posts: 1792   ·   registered: Jul. 7th, 2016
id 8604359
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RosesandThorns ( member #71917) posted at 4:33 PM on Monday, November 2nd, 2020

Hiking Out, how did your therapy appointment go? You don't have to go e details, but did he/she give you some things to focus on first? Did it help to tell someone irl?

posts: 148   ·   registered: Oct. 23rd, 2019
id 8604557
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 hikingout (original poster member #59504) posted at 2:46 PM on Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020

Thanks everyone, I did read your responses earlier, and I appreciate all that is there in them.

IC went about as expected, it was a sob fest. I have elected to go back to my same IC since she is familiar with me, and I thought maybe that would give us a head start. She went straight to my FOO again, she said that we may have to look at other aspects of it to deal with this new twist. It went by very fast. It did help to tell someone in real life. Since my closest friend is having her issues, I have picked someone else out to talk to and I plan to tell her Thursday evening.

I also have a group that I connected with through meetups and they have one on Saturday that meets about once a month. I think it will be helpful if I can connect with a few people there and maybe choose one or more to spend some one on one time with. Female only of course.

We had a good couple of days for the most part, we actually watched a whole movie together last night because we are just both exhausted and needed to chill out. If anyone is looking for a good one to watch we saw "The Grizzlies" on Amazon. It was a very inspiring movie, I highly reccomend it.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
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thatbpguy ( member #58540) posted at 11:57 PM on Tuesday, November 3rd, 2020

hikingout, I've been away with surgeries in October and just found this. My heart sank. You have been the bedrock for so many here. I hope with all I have this all works out.

ME: BH Her: WW DDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I left; Divorced Remarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4455   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8605222
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thatbpguy ( member #58540) posted at 12:38 AM on Wednesday, November 4th, 2020

Now, I can only believe in myself. And, to be honest, I am just not sure where that puts him. It's going to be an uphill battle for him to get me to believe in him again. And, I don't have a lot of confidence that's what's going to happen because to do that I think he would need to believe in me. And, I destroyed that aspect as well. I don't know if I could have climbed that mountain if I didn't see him as something to win. I am glad I climbed it, in the end the person who won in some ways is me (I know that's a weird thing to say but I just mean that I do get to take what I learned forward).

But, that's the complexity of this, somehow we both have to learn to believe in each other again and so while Mrs. Walloped mentioned Everest, I think we climbed a smaller mountain than that and this is our Everest. But, I am now a stronger, better climber with better equipment. Is he? I don't think so?

There's a song entitled "Broken Together". Your disposition reminds me of it. Two people who find a stronger marriage "broken together". Sometimes our greatest failings turn into our biggest strengths and we never realize it.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 6:40 PM, November 3rd (Tuesday)]

ME: BH Her: WW DDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I left; Divorced Remarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4455   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
id 8605230
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 hikingout (original poster member #59504) posted at 2:30 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

So, quick update:

H and I traveled yesterday to do the poly. We elected to both do it and settled on questions that would eliminate whether either of us has had any other affairs. We both passed. I know there is always the chance for a false pass, but I think it allows us to move forward and just focus on what's at hand. It was genuinely a lingering question for him, so I had no problem complying.

There was a confession on his end the morning of, still processing that one. I don't feel it was an infidelity, but it does count as a lie. It's a long story and I am not sure what role it will play in all of this. It was from a very long time ago, prior to marriage and as we were transitioning from being FWB to deciding to date legitimately. He had been in a push/pull relationship that had ended even before our arrangement (so 6-8 months prior), but the woman was still kind of around as a friend.

When she found out we had been spending time together, she came to him and said that she didn't think she gave him enough of a chance. Keep in mind, she had two back to back affairs with married men since they had broken it off. It was clear to me she didn't want him, she just didn't want anyone else to have him. AND I was 10 years younger and I think she was kind of in competition with me anyway for a number of reasons that are not relevant to this story.

Anyway, he came to me and broke it off. We were apart just long enough for him to understand finally she was messing with his head. He came back and declared what an idiot he was, blah, blah blah. Having been his FWB, I had a birds eye view on how he handled other stuff and I believed him to be honest. But, I asked him point blank if he slept with her while we were broken up and he said no. I knew her and worked at her office, and she told me during a lunch out one day that they had slept together once. He always denied it and said that she was just trying to cause more issues.

Truth be known, it wouldn't have changed the outcome for me if he had said yes at the time. We had not yet gotten very serious, and he did cleanly break it off with me. I don't like he lied to me about it, but I always felt he probably did lie to me about it. We never discussed it again. I had actually kind of decided it was none of my business, but I would rather had he just answered me that way to begin with.

I am not sure what that weighs yet, I have to process it some more. Currently, I am not that upset about it, but I may just still be relieved about the poly yesterday.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

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thatbpguy ( member #58540) posted at 3:53 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

First, it's good to have, and pass, the poly for both of you. It removes a stumbling block.

Second, the lie you mention would be concerning to me. Some lies I can understand (over small, inconsequential things), but this is a major omission. People who do so and easily get away with it make it a tendency- IMHO.

Still hoping the very best.

ME: BH Her: WW DDay 1, R; DDay 2, R; DDay 3, I left; Divorced Remarried to a wonderful woman

"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind." C.S. Lewis

As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly...

posts: 4455   ·   registered: May. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Vancouver, WA
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 hikingout (original poster member #59504) posted at 4:43 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

I would typically agree with you, but it's a lot more complicated than that for me. We are talking about something that happened while we were broken up decades ago. I have never once caught him in any lies about anything, big or small for decades.

I tend to think holding something against him that wasn't infidelity would be just me coloring it based on my emotions about what has just happened. I am trying to keep an open mind about who he is, because I know myself - I also hadn't been a liar in our marriage. I hadn't had a bad history of acting in poor character. So, I think I see this a bit differently.

I simply believe certain things are contextual to what you are dealing with and some things are outlier information. I tend to think if I had been a BS first, I would absolutely would be reacting differently to this. But, having had my own path of having done something that was an abomination, but also an outlier of any kind of patterned behavior, I tend to think it's possible.

I also think in light of what we are dealing with currently, this doesn't seem nearly as significant. I don't know, I may still get more worked up about it, but right now I am not really there.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
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Tanner ( member #72235) posted at 5:45 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

It was such a relief for me when I finally had the truth. It still hurt and I didn’t like the truth, but on Dday 2 I demanded the full timeline and it was a relief, my gut was good for the first time.

It seems you guys are headed the right direction.

Dday Sept 7 2019 working toward R
BH 54
WW 47
M 30 years, 4 kids 2 grown, twin boys 12 yo 2 grandkids

One day you will tell your story how you overcame what you are going through now, and it will become part of someone else’s survival guide.

posts: 727   ·   registered: Dec. 5th, 2019   ·   location: Texas DFW
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sisoon ( Guide #31240) posted at 6:01 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

I also think in light of what we are dealing with currently, this doesn't seem nearly as significant.

I agree. At worst, IMO, the lie then was a harbinger of what you're dealing with now. Resolving the issues that led to his A, then will resolve the issues that enabled the lie.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 26050   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8605863
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TX1995 ( member #58175) posted at 6:28 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

I'm glad the poly went well for both of you. After I had the timeline and the poly, it was a sense of relief - at least for that specific bundle of time discussed in the poly.

We had the same issue come up POST poly actually, when WH did a third timeline for me (1st was a lie, 2nd was poly solely about the A timeline, 3rd was full disclosure about his whole sexual history including pre-me and pre-marriage). While it was disconcerting, and solidified the idea that I had no CLUE what a liar by omission he really was before I married him, I agree with Sisoon in that the issues that allowed him to lie for his whole life - to me, his family, his God, himself, are the same issues that led him to have his A. Thing is, he can't change how much he lied in the past. Now that it is all on the table - ALL of it - he has chosen FOR HIMSELF to be brutally honest at all times. This comes out in his interactions with me, our kids, and interestingly enough with his family as well. It helps to reinforce for me that people DO have the ability to learn, grow and become better. Does not make the sting of his lies to me go away, but it does give me hope that R is perhaps not a pipe dream and that the person he was then, is not the person he is now and he will work hard to never be that man again. (I think you know that is possible too, since it seems like you've been on that journey yourself!)

I'm the BS. WH had a 3 month EA/PA with a cOW. DDay was 4/17. Working on R. Married 15 years and together 20 at DDay.
DDay #2 and #3 6/19. Grew a conscience and admitted a full blown physical affair. Now in limbo.

posts: 983   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017   ·   location: Texas
id 8605885
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 hikingout (original poster member #59504) posted at 6:29 PM on Thursday, November 5th, 2020

I agree. At worst, IMO, the lie then was a harbinger of what you're dealing with now. Resolving the issues that led to his A, then will resolve the issues that enabled the lie.

Yes, and I had tried on the other scenario - that he lied to me all the way up to the poly so it was all a lie. It just doesn't fit for me. I think he just was nervous the night before about the test and didn't sleep well. He scoured his mind for anything that might pop up in his mind and interfere with the test, and remembered about that. I understand, I was also thinking along those lines and nervous about the test even though I knew I had never had other instances of cheating. I had never even considered it or thought about it.

I don't think he's typically conflict avoidant like me, so it still surprises me that he lied. His issues are not the same as mine, his has always been lack of understanding of himself. Delayed emotional responses are fairly typical for him, and often they are delayed enough that he doesn't always relate them to what is actually causing them. He suppresses hard stuff. But, on simpler things, he has no issue with conflict or telling me what he wants, nor do I ever find him just telling me what I want to hear. So, when you look at the affair, our state of reconciliation, and then you look at this lie from way back then, it does show he holds back if he thinks it's going to hurt me. He's okay with pissing me off, or annoying me, or telling me no/sharing his opinion. So, that's a long winded way of saying, yes, I think those two things tie together and if you deal with it, then it deals with both instances. One is just far more recent and so much more huge, it's hard for me to even give the other much consideration or thought. I am sure we will talk about it more but it really didn't change anything for me overall.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:30 PM, November 5th (Thursday)]

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 1:35 AM on Friday, November 6th, 2020

Hikingout, I actually think this was a measured and compassionate response to his lie. Yes, worthy of examining and processing but I understand completely why it's not as significant. It was a messy situation as many FWBs can go. You weren't together. Your MH clearly had some baggage involved. It's good he thought of it and confessed because it is a lie he told and it may have something to do with his whys and how he was already somewhat comfortable keeping secrets from you.

posts: 4982   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 8606042
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 hikingout (original poster member #59504) posted at 3:39 PM on Friday, November 6th, 2020

Thank you, Nekonamida.

I don't feel measured a lot of the time, but for this my gut check might actually be logical.

Things are up and down, but certainly getting past the STD panel and the poly, it feels like we are overall going in the right direction. We have not heard from OBS or AP any more yet either.

I can't say our conversations are calm. I am no longer at the sad, passive place. I am pissed off and irritable and pretty sarcastic. I think I am way meaner to him than he was to me, but I try and put away those comparisons, it just is what it is.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
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maise ( member #69516) posted at 4:01 PM on Sunday, November 8th, 2020

You’re probably “way meaner” because you’re letting the emotions come (which gives you the opportunity to process and eventually heal). He seems to have suppressed his (which lead to his affair being his outlet).

[This message edited by maise at 10:03 AM, November 8th (Sunday)]

BW (SSM)
D-Day: 6/9/2018
Status: IHS

posts: 856   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2019   ·   location: Houston
id 8606703
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 hikingout (original poster member #59504) posted at 1:51 PM on Monday, November 9th, 2020

That makes complete sense. And, oddly makes me feel better after coming back from a weekend in which I would say I did not always recognize myself. I have IC today, so I am hoping that I can get to a better place with this. I don't like myself, and I don't want to continue to feed that feeling.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
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BigBlueEyes ( member #71441) posted at 4:13 PM on Monday, November 9th, 2020

HO,

No advice here or great words of wisdom I’m afraid.

I always read your messages as very honest & insightful,

So I just wanted to say I’m genuinely sorry you are going through this.

From a BW to another BW

((((Hugs for you))))

Me- BW, 47
Multi Dday's,
DB A's x 2 BFF
Multi ONS's, Online shit.
Serial cheat, Abuser,
D 18.02.20
Stay strong, just because it’s hard today, doesn’t mean that next week it won’t get easier!!

posts: 674   ·   registered: Mar. 11th, 2019   ·   location: A tiny dot in a big 'ol World
id 8606966
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 4:31 PM on Monday, November 9th, 2020

Hi HO,

My husband too is finally letting his anger go. He doesn't like being an angry person or like seeing me balled up in pain from it either. I'd rather have him tell me and get it out though than bury it.

If you bury it, it can't be dealt with and healed.

You won't always feel this way, but if you don't deal with it now, you'll be this way a LOT longer.

Wishing you the best.

posts: 176   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8606974
Topic is Sleeping.
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