Newest Member: Loyalandbetrayed

Just Found Out :
WS has no idea I know

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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 3:58 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I can't imagine her ever voluntarily offering to cut C out, but if she offers to go NC with AP I may suggest that it is not enough and that all enablers must go, and see if she gets it

If keeping C as a friend is more important to her than saving her M, then your M is a sham, C is toxic and NOT a friend of the M, do not cave on this, it's called consequences.

As to the polygraph, it helps with remorse, another "walk of shame", plus this A may not be her first rodeo, you can ask that during the poly, as well as questions such as: "did you really love OM", "were you planning to leave me for him?" "did you have sex in our house/bed ?", "are you still lying to me even if by omission ?", "are you still in contact with POSOM ?", "other than POSOM have you ever had sex with anyone else since we got engaged and/or during our M ?", etc. If you are still considering R, do not discount the polygraph, all these recommendations have stood the test of time, even if she agrees to it now, still go through with it, you may even get what we call a "parking lot confession to more betrayals/lies" before, during and after the poly (yes we've "seen it" here on SI many times). Make a list of questions and tell her she will be subject to a polygraph, in reality you only get to ask between 4-5 questions during the poly, but most cheaters don't know that and think ALL the questions will come up, and even if they find out by research, they won't know for certain which questions would come up in the test.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 10:02 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 4:10 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

If she goes there, I would advise not to use the" I am sorry you feel that way" response. In my opinion, the word " sorry" should never escape your mouth.

I completely agree with Stinger on this one, replace the "I'm sorry" with "I completely disagree" or something similar, you should project strength, and even though the context/meaning may be similar, telling her you are "sorry" sounds "apologetic" IMHO .

[This message edited by Buster123 at 10:12 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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Booyah ( Member #60124) posted at 4:26 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Sorry you're in this situation but glad you found SI.

You've been given excellent advice which will help you navigate this clusterfuck.

A few things.

NEVER tell your wife about SI. Let this be your safe place.

Also, as you can see, cheaters lie, so anything your wife says after being confronted is just words.

Moving forward (if there's any possibility at R) it will be ALL about her actions!!

There's another tactic that cheaters use when their lying/cheating ways are exposed and that's to start crying.

Please do NOT take her tears (if she does this) as any indication that she's remorseful.

The tears are for her (not YOU) and that her fantasy world and deceitful ways have been exposed.

She will be fearful that everyone will know she's a cheater, a liar, and an unfaithful wife.

The tears will NOT have anything to do with the pain she caused you or BLOWING UP HER FAMILY.

The marriage that you've known is DEAD.

Can a new relationship be built?

Well that's only if over time her actions show that she's truly grasping what she's done to you and your family.

Reconciliation is only an attempt to go down this path and you're the only one who can extend this opportunity to her.

Is she worth trying to attempt this? Again it will be about her actions.

In time, if you choose to attempt to see if she could ever be a safe partner again, maybe then the regret she has may finally get to the place where she has genuine remorse.

Only time will tell on this.

Have you printed out the evidence you have?

Might want to do this.

Hang in there and continue to keep updating and sharing your thoughts.

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faithfulman ( Member #66002) posted at 4:28 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I can't imagine her ever voluntarily offering to cut C out, but if she offers to go NC with AP I may suggest that it is not enough and that all enablers must go, and see if she gets it

Stop "asking", stop "suggesting". Start "Telling" her how it is.

Example: "C will never walk in this house again, and if you want any chance at reconciling you and her are done, no contact, forever."

C gotta go. She is a cheater, liar, and a sleazebag and she obviously wanted a partner in crime with cheating and leaving her spouse who your wife became.

Your wife gets all the blame for actually doing it, but toxic shitty people like C need to be cut out fo the picture until you decide to divorce, or forever if you try to reconcile.

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Butforthegrace ( Member #63264) posted at 5:29 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I hope the confrontation tomorrow goes well. Here is one thing to expect: no matter how well you think you have it scripted and planned out, it will likely take a hard left turn very quickly as she (like almost all cheaters) begins to DARVO and gaslight and blame shift, things that cheaters do almost instinctively and naturally.

Prepare yourself for this. Free yourself to walk away from the conversation if it starts heading in an unsatisfactory direction. Remember: you do not need closure with her to divorce her. In fact, lack of closure is one common reason for divorce.

By the way, the idea of having your WW contact the wife/girlfriend of the AP, that's a BAD idea. You should reject that idea. You should contact that person yourself, in advance of confronting your wife.

"The wicked man flees when no one chases."

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Underserving ( Member #72259) posted at 5:55 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I admire your restraint so much. I wish I had discovered my WH’s A while it was still going on, and fantasize about being as in control as you are after discovery. You’re already steps ahead of most of us.

I won’t offer much advice, just reiterate that cheaters will lie and minimize, even when caught red handed. It’s honestly almost comical what they will lie about when the truth is undeniable.

I hope your confrontation goes as best as it can. I know you are wanting R, and maybe once she gets that cold hard slap of reality, she’ll wake up and do what she needs for you to consider R. Be prepared that’s not usually the case. Best of luck, and hope you will continue to update.

BW (32)
Found out 3 years post end of A
D-day 12-9-19
Meh-ing through R

Infidelity brings out the cuss in me. I’m not as foul mouthed in real life. ;)

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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 6:37 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Judge your wife only by her actions from now on. Not by her promises (she's a liar).

Your wife needs to go 100% NC with C. It's really not negotiable.

Why?

1 - C is no friend to your marriage.

2 - C was not a good friend to your wife.

A good friend would not allow your wife to risk hurting her kids & husband; plus a good friend would not validate & enable her affair.

3 - C was an active conspirator. Your wife (if she really regrets hurting you) should hate her (as well as the OM) for their role in destroying your life.

4 - C is a piss poor role model/influence for your wife. In order for your wife to become a safe partner, she needs to go 100% NC.

5 - Finally, your wife's reluctance to go NC is a red flag with respect to your wife becoming a safe partner.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 12:39 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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Limboaz ( Member #59200) posted at 7:54 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Sorry to hear about what you are going through. I haven't had time to read the replies as I am busy with work. Sorry if this has already been stated.

I don't think your approach is that realistic based on the common dynamics of affairs. Deciding to Reconcile or not is not something you can realistically do on D-Day. You need to see how things play out.

In the vast majority of cases, the WW (Wayward wife) will stay in contact after d-day, but just be much more discreet about it. The fact that she is willing to risk her marriage for this guy means that she likely has some pretty strong feelings for him, and she is addicted to the feelings she gets with her interactions with him.

Many of us here recommend a firm and assertive approach if you want to reconcile. Some examples of what people have done: Have her served for divorce at work, expose the affair to her family and possibly a few close friends. Contact the OM's wife and let her know her husband is having an affair.

Trying to win her back by being nice about it and begging for another chance will get you nowhere, guaranteed.

You need to see what she does, not what she says, because cheaters usually become pathologically liars.

Best of luck regardless of how you decide to handle this.

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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 8:07 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

So much gold in these replies - thankyou again everyone.

I will contact the OBS myself and explain before confrontation. I realise having an abuser contact a victim is incredibly unhealthy, and my thinking was wrong.

I get the use of the polygraph too now. Something to explore the idea that there has been more infidelity in the past and more lies. Something for a lot further down the road though.

I will not apologise at all to her. Though I'm nervous as hell I'll try to remain calm and assertive.

I'll check this thread again tomorrow at least once before the confrontation. Thank you all for your help.

Wish me luck.

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DictumVeritas ( Member #74087) posted at 8:52 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Good luck, freefaller, prepare well, rest well (if you can), I don't envy you the task ahead of you, but you've got this.

ETA:

Remember to dress for success. Appearing as good as you can will definitely make you feel better, according to studies, but even if it does nothing, it wouldn't hurt.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:37 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

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Wanttobebetter ( Member #72484) posted at 9:10 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Your calmness under these stressful time and steady approach to your wife betrayal is really admirable. Sorry you are here but you are on the right track and many will give you valuable advise. Stay strong.

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Jambomo ( Member #74853) posted at 9:14 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Just to say good luck for tomorrow. Be strong and focused, as you are coming across on here, and you’ll do fine.

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Kaliber ( Member #74046) posted at 9:20 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Good luck freefaller remember you need to look like you don't care and moving on with you life, be cold as ice so you can get the results you want!

Never cry or plead, show alpha male strength, someone who knows if he leaves he will find someone better, you did nothing wrong, you did not cheat, you are the prize!

And never offer the gift of reconciliation soon, wait for days or weeks, let it cook slowly, see what she does and acts!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 3:22 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

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HalfTime2017 ( Member #64366) posted at 9:23 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I don't know if this has been said already, but you need to notify the OM's girlfriend. Once you confront your wife, without telling her, I would notify the OMs girlfriend so that your wife doesn't get the chance to warn the other man that the gig is up.

You want their world to implode together if you want a chance to R. As far as your wife, its too early to decide you want R. See how she reacts and behaves first.

As for a VAR, I'd have it on and recording during your confrontation. What you will most likely find out is that she will be lying to your face. You can't remember everything and you'll be lost with emotions. SO its best that you keep a VAR running during confrontation so that you can go back, and ask questions you missed, and also, have what she tells you down on a recording. It will help you and remind you to double check what she says, vs what the truth is. Most people will be so emotionally charged, you won't remember everything, tears are flying and words are shouted.

I do believe you are prepared, so good luck this weekend on confrontation. Also agreed that not only is C going to have to go, but she should be outed as well as a whorebag home wrecking slut to the world. Her new boyfriend is no better.

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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:20 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

1 - If it helps, consider writing down a list of talking points to cover during the confrontation.

2 - Remember that it is not necessary to respond, argue, or reply to anything she says, her tears or drama.

Take 100% control, stay on topic, follow your list of talking points and do not let her interrupt.

The more decisive you are and the more intolerant you are of her adultery - the more likely you are to bring her back to reality.

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Robert22205https ( Member #65547) posted at 10:30 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

With respect to your wife's best friend C, 100% NC is one of the consequences of your wife's decision to cheat (and C's willingness to enable).

NC with her girlfriend (bestie) is entirely her (their) own fault. You are not responsible for your wife loosing her best 'friend'. Although IMO this woman is not a real friend.

Refusal to go NC with such an evil person/'friend' is evidence that your wife will not/can't become a safe partner.

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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:36 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Not sure about these - I already have all of the detail I need, so it's not like I need to get more out of her. If there is a need, I'd definitely consider using them though.

If you're going to divorce, then yes you have everything you need.

If you're going to reconcile, then no way do you have everything you need. You know only the tip of the iceberg. You can't reconcile with what you don't know. Trust has been broken. Without FULL TRUTH, your trust will NEVER be restored. And that's no reconciliation.

Some are resistant to the idea of a polygraph. I don't know why. If I had had people advising me right after D-Day, I think I would have pressed in on a polygraph but I didn't learn about the idea until months later and then dithered. Boy, I wish I hadn't.

It's one of the most effective tools for getting the truth so you know what you're dealing with either way. Please don't brush this off.

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

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Thumos ( Member #69668) posted at 10:40 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

In terms of the AP's girlfriend, if the opportunity arises, I will be asking WS to call her and explain. Otherwise she will be getting a call from me. I want her to not have to deal with the POSOM as much as I don't.

Gently this is passive and won't work out very well.

You are doing VERY WELL and I commend your clear headedness. But you are being passive on a number of very important items and it will catch up with you quickly.

People here on SI have decades of experience with this. Please listen to and implement their advice.

if she offers to go NC with AP I may suggest that it is not enough and that all enablers must go, and see if she gets it

Again, this is passive. "if she offers" "I may suggest" - nope. "See if she gets it" - nope. You gotta excise this thinking out of your cortex and start hardening up because you are in for real physical, emotional and, yes, spiritual warfare with your WW.

I am a bit concerned because you are using a lot of phrases that are already the pick-me dance writ large. You're going to open door after door for her and she will walk right through those open doors while you stand there gaping with your mouth wide open.

You don't have to be a Christian to appreciate the wisdom of Proverbs 30:20 "This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth and says, 'I've done nothing wrong.'

That's what you are up against. This is the real woman you married, not the one you thought you married. You're going to need to get that through to the deepest levels of your mind quick.

As Yoda says in the Empire Strikes Back, "Do. Or do not. There is no try."

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:48 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure. The greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature."

BH (me): 50, WW: 49
Married: Feb. 1996
DDAY: Dec. 20

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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 10:44 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Good luck, like others have mentioned, make a list of questions and record the entire confrontation, grab all car keys first to reduce the risk of her storming out of the house to avoid it, I still think you should confront first then tell OBS, you discovered the A so your situation should be your priority, you don't want to risk POSOM alerting your WW via text/call so that they can get their stories straight and minimize the A, of course once you confront your WW, call OBS to expose the whole thing, then call both set of parents (starting with hers), then siblings and close mutual friends.

Start by saying you know the whole thing but that you'd rather hear it from her and her reasons for the betrayal and DO NOT reveal your sources, she will likely deny and deny at first, therefore you may be forced to show some undeniable proof so that she can finally admit to it.

Try to maintain control of the conversation and don't allow her to deflect the questions or derail the interrogation. Go back and read some of the suggestions posted here, then come back and tell us how it went so that we can give you some more advice that has stood the test of time. Make sure you have a box of kleenex handy and plenty of water.

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RealityBlows ( Member #41108) posted at 10:53 PM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Sorry you had to join us but, I’ve personally found this site invaluable as I’m sure you already have. You seem really well composed and pragmatic. Stay this way. It’s cold and calculating but, ironically, it’s extremely effective and respected by WS’s whom often underestimate and have lost respect for their BSs. When the waterworks start you’ll be strongly compelled to try and save her and the marriage. Your current marriage is already gone. That contract has been compromised. It’s going to take a complete rebuild with the help of lots of counseling. That’s WAY down the road and is premature to consider at this point although you maybe strongly compelled to do so. You may be directly and indirectly manipulated right from the start to forgive, forget and R. Be prepared for this. Common tactics are:

-Love Bombing

-Sex Bombing

-Threats

-Minimizing

-Redirecting

-Victimization of self

-Blame Shifting

-Trickle Truthing

-Etc.

Before you confront...get a VAR placed in her car! WS’s consider the car the ultimate safe place. It is very, VERY telling how your WW refers to you behind your back and especially telling how she refers to you and the situation right after you confront. How she regards you, your pain and your expectations behind your back will give you a wealth of information you will rely on to assess whether she is future R material. Things may be revealed in these recordings that may be total deal breakers for you.

There is a lot of information your going to collect on DD that will help you determine your definitive course of action.

My WW was extremely reluctant to jettison enabling friends and her job where her A began, where her AP continued to work right along side of her. That was a huge red flag. She resented the transparency. Another red flag. She resented her new boundaries.

Observe and take notes on how she responds to DD and how she follows through.

Remorseful WS’s are willing to move Heaven and Earth to save the marriage.

You may see a side to your wife you’ve never seen before. It’s quite shocking. My WW ranged from Oscar performance melodramatic blubbering on the tear and snot soaked floor begging of forgiveness, self deprecating and loathing to absolute F-You defiance. I think this was the result of the duality of self she created to separate her affair world from reality, finally coming together like matter and antimatter.

Prepare yourself for this. It’s heartbreaking to witness and, again, you will feel compelled to rush in and save her. Because-of course, you still love her.

Don’t let your love for her and your overwhelming desire to just wake up from this nightmare compromise you.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 5:01 PM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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Topic is Sleeping.
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