Newest Member: Loyalandbetrayed

Just Found Out :
WS has no idea I know

Topic is Sleeping.
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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 6:56 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

My WS has no idea I know everything, and this week has been hell. I've put on a happy, outgoing family-man with kids

and a loving wife mask, and barged through the days one by one.

At the beginning of this year, two of our (myself and my wife) friends split up. They were not married, but they had a

child together, and the split was down to 'C' having an affair with another man. C's previous partner ended up

moving out and by some financial wrangling, C was able to buy their house with her new partner. It took a few months,

but worked out for C and her new partner in the end.

My wife is best friends with C, and they talk about everything. In around April of this year, my wife told C that

she was seeing someone outside of our marriage. C responded with messages of support like "I won't judge you" and "I

remember how exciting, scary and fun it was when I was [having a secret affair]". I couldn't see any messages where C

told my WS that she shouldn't do anything and instead talk to me or work out our issues.

As time passed, C became involved on a few occasions, and enabled WS and AP to meet in private. He has a girlfriend

too, so they have to be very careful. One occasion involved WS and C (and her new partner) arranging a trip to a park

near to where the AP works so that our two kids and their three kids could have a day out. This was planned for a

date that I could not make as I work during the week. C and her partner took the kids while WS and AP met.

On returning home, there was no mention of meeting up with AP (he is involved with my WS new business as an advisor -

he has an established shop, and she often asks him for advice) - even though it would have been completely normal for

her to have met up with him (with all of the kids) for a short while to say hi.

That is just one instance. There have been several, and many have been with C's knowledge. I have evidence of

everything. I was thinking I was losing my mind suspecting her, but it turns out my intuition was correct. I've never

hated being right about anything like I hate being right about this.

I'm confronting my WS tomorrow, and I'm hoping she will want to try to reconcile. I think she longs to relive her youth,

and has made some bad decisions which have been exacerbated and enabled by C.

If she does not want to reconcile, I have taken some steps to protect myself, and I'm ready to proceed down the divorce

route. In this country, the split for assets will be 50/50, and the child custody will be determined based on the best

outcome for the kids. I will be taking a hit (I've been the person paying all the bills, including mortgage for the

past 10 years), despite having helped her set up her new businesses, support her and try to give her and our kids the

best life I could.

If she does want to reconcile, I'm going to ask her to cut off contact with the AP (of course), allow me to monitor her

phone, email and so on in order to verify she can be tusted again (slowly, this will take time to rebuild), but the

biggest one of all is that I want her to cut off all contact with anyone who is not a friend of our Marriage (i.e. C).

I feel that the last one will be the test.

I've read a bunch of articles in the healing library, and they have helped me gain some perspective, though I have

barely eaten since the 31st August, and slept maybe a total of 8 hours. I have a meeting with my new therapist today and

a support network of a couple of friends (I'm going to add more, but want to keep the footprint small for now as my WS

has no idea I know). My plan for tomorrow involves removing the kids from the house for a few days then beginning the

confrontation in the evening.

Wish me luck. I need any and all advice and support.

[EDIT]

Actually, I do have a specific question: Is there anything that I definitely should / should not say during the confrontation? I have an idea of where I'm going and I don't really want to make a daft error

[This message edited by freefaller at 1:17 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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id 8582578
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Emptyshelldad ( Member #32292) posted at 7:17 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

You are an awesome example of self control i never could be. I'm on my 2nd serious relationship in my entire life. First one cheated after 10years 11months 27 days.....killed me, I ended it.

Then two years later met the love of my life.... my soul mate.... we were so crazy in love it was like nothing I had ever experienced before. We had a little girl together, and then another.... so much in love. 3 years in, I discovered she had been having numerous affairs, starting right away when we first met, and several times thru out our life together up to that point. It gutted my soul and I was never able in either of those to keep it together. They knew right away as soon as I knew that something happened....

So, for at least that I salute you. I'm so sorry you are having to go thru this pain. I don't wish it on any other human.

Other Members are a lot better than me at helping, and will be along shortly but I wanted you to know that I heard you, and I feel you. I wish I could do more.

Love of my life -
Me: BH 34, Her: WW - 36,
3.5 years together, happier than I've ever been in life.
First woman
Me: BH - 28, Her: WW - 31, 10 years, 5 months, 6 days.
2 beautiful daughters. 1 devious, deceitful, serpant-like liar of a

posts: 249   ·   registered: May. 27th, 2011   ·   location: emptyshelldad
id 8582582
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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 7:23 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

@Emptyshelldad - thankyou. That's very kind. TBH, I think I'm in shock still. Last Friday, Sat and Sun I thought that I was losing my mind and that I was going to accidentally kill myself in my dispair. I couldn't trust my thoughts or what my mind was telling me - I thought I could see infidelity, but my WS was telling me she is happy, loves me and wants me to be happy, and that she thought my depression may be flaring up.

When I confirmed the affair, it was like a weight was lifted, and instead of feeling paranoid, manic and out of control, I feel calm. I still have low moments, but they pass in maybe a couple of minutes. I'm sure there is worse to come, but for now I'm using this to get me through the rest of the week.

Your story sounds horrible too, and I hope you are doing much better not (sorry, haven't had time to read through post history).

[EDIT]

Just read your bio. I'm so sorry you feel like that. I hope you're able to talk to someone in a professional context, and heal.

[This message edited by freefaller at 1:25 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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paboy ( Member #59482) posted at 8:16 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

You seem to be holding up well. Just a few thoughts.

First. Cheaters lie. They minimise(trickle truth), and they blame shift. Be prepared.

You have made your line in the sand. Do not move it. Actually, you need to reinforce it. No contact what so ever.. total transparency.. no contact with any one that enabled the affair. You have mentioned these but you advise that these are minimum and not negotiable.

This next one is the most positive action to take to get you out of infidelity. FILE FOR DIVORCE. This will kick her off the fence. It will put you on the front foot. There is a saying that is banded around here. You need to be willing to lose your marriage to save it. You can always withdraw it if you want.

And last of all..never do the pick me dance. It just makes you look more undesirable..

Keep moving forward. Your doing great.

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Buster123 ( Member #65551) posted at 8:31 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I'm sorry that you're here but I'm glad you found us, believe it or not you're doing better than most after Dday, based on what you posted, it sounds that you have solid and undeniable proof for the confrontation (maybe the work of a PI?), how did you find out ?, anyway, you have a solid plan but I just want to point out that for maximum impact, DO NOT offer R upfront, and after the confrontation (make sure you record it with your phone), EXPOSE her with OBS/GF and with ALL family and close friends without warning, NOTHING kils an A faster than full exposure, make sure you name POSOM. Also here's a few of the basics:

1) Demand she sends an NC FOREVER text to OM, one that you approve (no sweet goodbyes) and make sure you watch her hit SEND. Do NOT allow her time to end it or one last meet up for "closure" a.k.a "one last sexual encounter". C has to go too as well as everyone who enabled/encouraged/helped cover her A.

2) Demand FULL on demand access to her phone and ALL electronic devices and passwords FOREVER, there's no "my privacy" in a M other than toilet time, but if there ever was one, she lost it the second she decided to cheat on you.

3) Demand a detailed written timeline of her A subject to a polygraph (highly recommended this may not necessarily be her first rodeo).

4) Demand she gets tested for STDs (you should too), yes, she was playing russian roulette with your health.

6) Consult a D attorney to know your legal options, also ask him about a post-nup in case R is possible if she does the necessary work.

7) She needs to go to IC with someone who specializes in infidelity (very important) to find out her "whys", forget MC for the time being, it's usually a waste of time and money at this time.

8) Have her read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, it helps a lot, especially with boundaries, also "How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair" by Linda McDonald.

If she refuses to do any of the above suggestions, simply file for D and have her served without warning, D takes a long time and can be stopped before it's final if she comes around and commits to do the heavylifting to restore the M she destroyed (by that time it may be too late and maybe you won't even want her back), otherwise just let D run its course and get out of infidelity.

Others will chime in with more advice, keep posting frequently, this is a crucial time and the collective wisdom of SI could help you during this difficult time, every case is different but cheaters typically follow a similar script, we've seen it play out THOUSANDS of times.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 2:39 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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standinghere ( Member #34689) posted at 8:50 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

There’s a lot of good advice there, one thing I don’t see mentioned is just simply keep your sources of information to yourself, there may be more that you don’t know, that will be revealed if you do not show where your information is coming from, be prepared for a deluge of lies and gaslighting, minimizing, blame shifting.

Don’t allow the other person to destroy evidence. However, keep in mind, do not touch the other person, threatening, or do anything else, that might end up with you in jail.

It would be a good idea to have a recorder running throughout the entire conversation. This is for your protection. Remember, you really don’t know your spouse. Just like the rest of us, you just thought you knew your spouse.

BH - Me - Late 30's (now late 50’s)
WW - Her - Late 30's (now late 50’s)
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled - Partly...she can't get over it.
Her - Thunderstruck by what she did.

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DictumVeritas ( Member #74087) posted at 8:55 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

freefaller,

Firstly, sorry you had to find this community, but you will find kindred spirits here, tempered by the fires you now face.

Well done on your restraint, but before you confront, please know that it is better to do so from a position of power.

You wish to reconcile. Sometimes to save a thing you must be willing to kill that thing. It sounds counter-intuitive, but please hear me out.

Right now your wife has the best of both worlds, you as stable provider and her lover as exciting Don Juan. You can not compete with the excitement of the new, no spouse can.

If you confront and immediately offer reconciliation, you put yourself in a position of weakness. Why would she stop the excitement if she knows you will still be there for her, no matter what?

The short answer is, she won't. Her body is flooded with endorphins and like a drug addict, through this she is addicted to her AP. Here it is referred to as being in the fog.

Unlike a large proportion of people here I do not subscribe to the fog as an excuse for post-DDay or post-confrontation behaviors, but the term will become relevant and you will see her actions upon confrontation in that context.

While she is in the fog (addicted to her AP), only one thing will snap her back to reality and that is the very real possibility of loosing you. For that reason, you must be willing to walk away from the marriage as much as that will hurt.

Before you confront

1) Consult with an attorney to see what your legal standing will be in case of a divorce.

I would go as far as to get the divorce proceedings started, you can always halt a divorce at any stage.

2) Purchase a [V]oice [A]ctivated [R]Recorder and keep it on you during the confrontation.

Not only will the VAR recording serve as a means to review the confrontation, it will also protect you legally and the following is very important.

There is a lot of examples here where the betrayed husband [BH] has been falsely accused of domestic violence [DV] by the Wayward-Wife [WW].

Most if not all of them thought that their wives were incapable of calling the police to make false statements and laying these charges. Those who had VARs could prove the charges to be false.

Although you have shown tremendous restraint, anger can come at any time now (you are still in shock) knowing that you are recording yourself may just serve to keep outbursts at bay.

3) Get your facts in order and stored away where she can not delete proof.

She is most likely going to deny and minimize. Have everything you can prove printed out (paper has actual weight).

Confront her with just enough facts for her to know that you know, keep the rest to yourself. She will see the stack of paper and assume you know absolutely everything. This assumption will help you to get answers to questions you don't know the answers to and would like to find out about.

Backup all your digital evidence and store it somewhere she can not find it. Waywards in the fog have been known to destroy evidence.

When you confront

1) First ask her for her phone and keep it in your possession.

This way she can not clear her text, WhatsApp and other Application conversations stored on the phone, although she will be able to clear social media from another device, this is still helpful. Deleted data can be recovered using software if it was stored on the phone.

2) Keep calm and the conversation to the point

This evidence is what I know. Show her the printouts. You have been doing this... Example from the printouts. What do you want to do? You can have a boyfriend OR me, not both. I have spoken to a lawyer and this is what it will look like. However if you do the following I will consider [R]econciliation.

1) [N]o [C]ontact

She immediately and without delay sends him a NC message in your presence stating in short order that it's over and she doesn't want any form of contact with him in future. No lovey-dovey, I'm sorry. Just plain, NC.

2) She hand over all passwords to all her electronic devices, email accounts and social media to you immediately. Full transparency is a must.

3) She answers all your questions openly and honestly.

4) She provides you with a written timeline of the affair from start to right now. Everything in every detail, as much as you are willing to handle. If you don't want sexually explicit details now, have her write both the X-rated and PG rated versions. Believe me, you want the X rated one later when new questions pop-up.

5) She agrees to submit to a polygraph test to verify that she has told you the truth.

I know there is a lot more to do in this, but please keep these bullet points in mind.

If you offer R straight away, you will loose her to the AP. In order to save your marriage, you must be willing to loose it. Offering R straight away is a marriage killer.

You will receive a lot of advice here, some would be useful, some not, please take only what you need.

Expose

Even if you R, the [O]ther [B]etrayed [S]pouse should at the very least be informed of the affair and be given the evidence that you have.

You need support, expose to close friends and family.

I've read the paths others have walked and I advise you to do the same, especially those who are already further down the line than myself. It has was my source of knowledge and strength.

Strength to you on this road you now must walk.

ETA:

Finances

It would be wise to take exactly half from your joint accounts and place it into an account only you have access to. You might want to consider freezing Credit Cards.

If she has no interest in reconciliation, she might just walk out and clean out your accounts.

Your wife has to cut enemies of your marriage out of her life as well. Demand NC with everyone who knew about the affair and didn't inform you. Her enabling friend C definitely has to go.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:47 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

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Smillie ( Member #51537) posted at 9:01 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Double post

[This message edited by Smillie at 3:06 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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Smillie ( Member #51537) posted at 9:05 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Personally I think you should skip the confrontation and go straight to exposing to family and friends and the other guy's girlfriend. Then let your wife deal with the mess while you consult an attorney. Everyone thinks they can reason with a cheater until they try it.

If her job is not too important to your combined income you should expose there as well, especially if you want to reconcile, because it is hard to conduct an affair when you are broke.

[This message edited by Smillie at 3:12 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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DictumVeritas ( Member #74087) posted at 9:14 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

There is merit in what Smillie is saying above.

Affairs like mushrooms grow in the dark. The sunshine of exposure is almost always an affair killer.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 3:20 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

posts: 225   ·   registered: Mar. 22nd, 2020   ·   location: South-Africa
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Mrhealed ( Member #46868) posted at 9:19 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Do not tell her your sources. If she knows where you got your information, she may continue the A and hide it better.

Do not tell her all you know. Imply that you know everything but need to hear it from her.

Do not make promisses or theats you are not willing to enforce, like forgiving her in a heart bit, or telling her you will Divorce it if she ever talk to OM again.

She is a proven lier, dont believe what she says.

She may be infatuated, in the so called fog, so she will say that she is confused and need time . She will not enforce OM no contact, due to business as a excuse. In that situatuation I highly recomen to get Nuk about D. Dont give her any slack to cut contact with OM, nor to meet again for clousure.

Expose the A to OM girlfriend. That is very importante, because if you dont the OM will try to keep the A going. Do not let your WW know that you will do that, because she will be agaiinst and treat to leave you. Do It hours before the confrontación

Good luck

Edit typos

[This message edited by Mrhealed at 4:09 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

"Infidelity is not a victimless offense. If she cheats on me, then I am a victim. If she intentionally cheats on me then I am an intended victim." by DoneGone

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DictumVeritas ( Member #74087) posted at 9:37 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

freefaller,

I have forgotten to ask, do you have any children? If so of what ages?

This has legal and emotional impact and will influence the type of advice given in future.

Your life is but a flicker to the cosmos and only the brightest flickers are recorded by history for good or bad. Most of us just want to live our lives without being interfered with.

posts: 225   ·   registered: Mar. 22nd, 2020   ·   location: South-Africa
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jinkazama ( Member #61319) posted at 10:02 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

The Advice

Dont expect that she will be remorseful

If anything the first thing will be regret

And there is difference between remorese and regret.

And dont believe her. Because cheaters lie alot

They lie a lot.

And do 180.

And one more thing

Dont not believe her words . If she wants to reconcile then you have to look at her actions not words

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id 8582616
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jinkazama ( Member #61319) posted at 10:03 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I forgot to ask one more thing

How was your relationship with her before finding out about her affair.

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Gibraltar ( New Member #74935) posted at 10:40 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Do not give up your sources or how you found out about the affair. Also do not tell her about this site/forum.

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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 10:41 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Wow - stepped out for my first therapy session (which went really well, btw, enforcing that I'm doing the correct things at the right times), and didn't really expect so much support and love. Thank you all!

To answer a few questions:

1. Recording

Yeah, I'll be recording this on my gopro and a digital audio recorder. This is for the false accusation issue

2. Sources

I'm not revealing my source(s). It's sufficient to say I have all of the details I need.

3. Recounting details

I'll be getting her to write an account of the A for sure. Not something I'd have considered, but yeah, I think it's the right thing.

4. Legal advice

I've had some, and the rub in this country is: it'll be 50/50 unless she attempts to kill me or commits massive fraud. Kids will go to the most appropriate household, which is the correct decision. I'm going to have to trust that to some extent.

5. Post Nup

Not legally binding in this country, and can const thousands to put together. Waste of time.

6. IC for WS

Yeah, though I'll be suggesting she does this with a therapist other than the one that C uses (C has already referred her therapist to WS, on WS asking)

7. STD test

I've already ordered mine. Up to her to get tested herself.

8. Kids

Yeah, we have two little girls (5 and 6). They will be with my parents during the confrontation, and for as long as necessary to shield them from anything nasty. I'll be working to ensure their lives stay as normal as possible.

9. Reading

Thankyou for the book suggestions. I'll definitely see if I can get her to look.

10. Other BS

Yeah, I'll be telling her too. The AP and OBS have just made a significant purchase together.

A question for those saying not to offer R:

How do I ask her to abide by the boundaries if I've not (even implicitly) offered R?

[This message edited by freefaller at 4:44 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

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Smillie ( Member #51537) posted at 10:46 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

Reconciliation should not be offered by you, it should be requested by her.

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Kaliber ( Member #74046) posted at 10:47 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

I'm sorry you are here, however you are doing way better then other betrayed spouses (BS) here.

You got good advice, but I want to emphasise on some points:

1- Expose first to all family and friends and the other man (OM) spouse first, without your wife known, all in one go, it will server as a shock and awe to her, it's the element of surprise you need here.

2- NEVER ever offer R (reconciliation) right away, if you offer the gift of R you will shoot your self in the foot, tell her you are ending this marriage and contacted a lawyer and that you are moving on, you need to be in a position of strength and control, be very cold and none caring like you are throwing away a piece of garbage (fake it until you make it), she will be caught of guard and go into panic mode, she will tell you that she want to fix it, she will do what it takes to save the marriage that she destroyed and do what ever it takes to keep you, only then you put your demands on the table.

3- No more privacy, she lost that the moment she cheated and broke your trust, access to every thing including adding GPS tracker in her car and her phone, no ifs or buts.

If she is not willing to do any of what you asked her, or she is not remorseful then you got your answer and file for divorce and co-parent and move on with your life!

I hope it works well for you, just do it right and keep the element of surprise to your advantage!

and what jinkazama wrote:

jinkazama:

The Advice

Dont expect that she will be remorseful

If anything the first thing will be regret

And there is difference between remorese and regret.

And dont believe her. Because cheaters lie alot

They lie a lot.

And do 180.

And one more thing

Dont not believe her words . If she wants to reconcile then you have to look at her actions not words

REMEMBER the 180. it's a must, it's for you!

good luck buddy, it's a shit show, and I'm sorry you are here.

[This message edited by Kaliber at 4:50 AM, September 3rd (Thursday)]

You don't have a choice of being a victim, but you always have a choice of remaining one!

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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 10:48 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

@jinkazama

How was your relationship with her before finding out about her affair.

She had become distant, keeping her phone close at all times. Little participation in home life unless she was taking the kids out for the day (often with C).

She always tells me she loves me, and is happy, that she loves our life together. Even now. Just before my therapist appointment I got a tender message of support and love. Absolutely sickening, knowing what I know.

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 freefaller (original poster New Member #75304) posted at 10:50 AM on Thursday, September 3rd, 2020

@Smillie @Kaliber Thank you, that clears it up in my mind. Thank you for the kind words and support.

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Topic is Sleeping.
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