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BS Questions for WS - Part 14

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Mickie500 posted 11/18/2020 09:54 AM

Okay- Iím freaking out because no one is answering my question is it because you all believe that he IS LYING and you donít think I should think about it? 🤔

leavingorbit posted 11/18/2020 10:12 AM

Hi, Mickie. I can say that after I really started to dig in and look at myself, I didnít think of my APs except for triggers or associations that were not positive. Sometimes I would talk about them with my husband and sometimes I would work through them on my own. My H didnít want to hear much about them but he was very happy (and still is) to hear about the underlying emotions I was experiencing. Those were the real issues, anyway. Once I identified the emotions, there wasnít the same kind of compulsive ďthis happened ew ew ew gross Iím such a _____ (whatever negative descriptive)Ē thought process.

In other words, I wasnít pining. When I came down to earth, I came down hard, and all the ugly that the APs were a supposed band-aid for was front and center. So, maybe your husband is dealing with his ugly? Or, if heís just stuffing everything, then heíd be avoiding the work, IMO. If heís sharing emotionally, like talking about what heís working on personally or in IC, Iíd say heís digging. IME, APs are a Potemkin village. I think the best barometer is to watch his other actions over time. Iím so very sorry you are struggling. Sending peace and strength.

WilliamM posted 11/18/2020 10:53 AM

I have a quick question for you guys. You all have been wonderful in helping me with my questions so here goes.

I learned recently that one of my wife's APs (AP2), had a stroke. A friend of my wife who knows the AP told my wife. My wife simply said, "Sucks for him" and requested not to talk about him any longer. I, on the other hand, said in my mind "good" when I heard the news. But felt bad afterward. That is not indifference. I will talk about this with my wife tonight, but I wanted to hear from you guys first. How would you handle learning about something bad happening to your AP? Would that bring up any type of emotions? This was a person you were intimate with for some time. Could hearing of some tragic event in their lives bring up emotions, memories, or what? Has any of you experienced anything like hearing of an illness or a death of the AP? If so how did you handle it? How did your husband handle it?

Mickie500 posted 11/18/2020 11:16 AM

Thank you Leavingfororgit. He is doing the work but hates when I bring up the details. He admits every justification he used was dumb and flawed and he feels like an idiot priced for shit. He explains, though reluctantly when he can recall what he did by saying he was feeling like and he goes on to name some faulty excuse he came up with.

Timeforhelp posted 11/18/2020 12:07 PM

BSR - in answer to you previous response, yes I basically did the Ďpick me danceí for 17 years, I changed myself completely to be the person my WS was telling me I should be in order for him to stay in the marriage.

What changed was that when I found out about what I initially thought was his second affair, I got angry and became Ďsuper detectiveí, I then found out about ALL of his other affairs and his other wayward behaviour and I got VERY ANGRY.

I think the anger and the perseverance mixed with the pain finally got through to him and he began to look at himself.

Usually he is the person I described in my profile, but we have started looking more in-depth at his howís and whys and when I challenged him on inaccuracies he got angry, resentful and I felt a little cruel.

He broke a massive boundary and I started the 180, which has currentlyíscaredí him back into his previous demeanour.

He know has to work out why that happened as well.

When he gets angry I get scared we are over for good this time...

Darkness Falls posted 11/19/2020 12:35 PM

WilliamM,

I felt bad when I initially heard about the APía workplace accident. I felt it was ridiculous that he was planning to sue the business in question where it happened because I felt it was partially his fault. Now, a few years afterwards, I feel mostly indifferentóI hope heíll eventually be ok (Iíve heard there are lingering effects) and I donít wish him any ill will, but it doesnít affect me personally so I have no strong feelings one way or the other about it.

I donít think my H knows that it happened, so that part of your question is n/a.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 12:35 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

Bulcy posted 11/19/2020 13:17 PM

How can you just drop the AP cold Turkey? Is it really not cold Turkey and youíre just pretending? I find it hard to believe he doesnít think of the AP anymore. He never has his phone n him. How can he really be done? Was there a time when you werenít actually thinking of the AP but felt forced to because your BS experienced a trigger? I just find it hard to believe that he only thinks of her when I bring it up.

There is a fair amount to consider here. For me there was no chance of cold Turkey with my EA as we still worked together for six months post d-day. I saw her almost every day. While the phone calls and text messaging stopped, the affair did not. How can it if you're still seeing one another? I did not realise this for a while after d-day. I thought that as we were no longer "in an active affair" then it was over. This six month period meant that I was not getting out of the affair and could not start my recovery. Also my BS was constantly worried about what was going on every day while we were still working together. After that, it still took me a while to forget her. Again, I was in denial about it. I thought as maybe your WS does, that I had done it and the affair was over as we were in NC. Breaking contact and remaining so is great and needs to be done, but I would be surprised if anyone was over the affair and did not think about AP immediately after d-day. (Now, the APs are in my thoughts constantly at the moment as I work through my justifications and my Whys. However they are not thought of in a positive light). Maybe I will interpret the "drop the AP" in a different way. Could you WS be hiding behind semantics? Leaving the AP and going NC immediately is doable. I don't think that constitutes the affair being over and you not having thoughts for them ever again. No way.

As for pretending. I'm not sure pretending is the right word, maybe denial or lies cover it better. I find it had to believe, as I've stated above, that anyone can forget AP immediately and never think of them again. You have to in order to recover from it. You need to think about them in order to lose the bullshit feelings. Then there are the triggers, not necessarily about AP, but triggers about affairs......Boom! The the AP comes back. These are, for me, negative feelings, but the fucking AP is back in my mind and of course my BSs.

I dealt with things badly initially and denied, rug swept, hid from it and generally did not help myself or BS. This hit home after far too long and hit home hard. Since that time I've had multiple hits as more denials are unraveled. Maybe your WS is going through similar feelings. Hiding from the affair and ignoring it may allow the AP to not be constantly on his mind. However, it sounds like he is doing the work. If that's the case then the AP surely is on his mind?!? I suspect he is trying to say she is not in his mind in a positive, miss the affair kind of way. That could be true and I hope it is.

Mickie500 posted 11/19/2020 15:06 PM

This forum is so helpful. I use it to try and decide what to believe of what my husband tells me. I want desperately to believe him and he looks like the husband who is was when he was faithful but who really knows.

When you are reminded of how treacherous you were does it serve as a reminder of who you never want to be again or does it just make you feel like you shouldnít be forgiven?

gmc94 posted 11/19/2020 16:42 PM

Do you WS's share with your BS what you are doing in IC?
What prompts it?
Do you have some understanding with your BS about that sharing?

Or do you just go to IC and keep mum about whatever you are working on there?

forgettableDad posted 11/19/2020 17:54 PM

Do you WS's share with your BS what you are doing in IC?
I talked with my wife about every session; contents and understandings that came out of it. Hell, we still talk every day about our struggles and where we failed and where we succeeded.

What prompts it?
Nothing. I like sharing my life with my wife. Otherwise, what's the point?

When you are reminded of how treacherous you were does it serve as a reminder of who you never want to be again or does it just make you feel like you shouldnít be forgiven?
Forgiveness isn't mine to give so I don't worry too much about should or shouldn't. I accept it. When I think back or when it comes up (either with my wife or someone else) I'm mostly reminded how much I enjoy the road to being the person that I want to be rather than the one behind me.

Darkness Falls posted 11/19/2020 17:57 PM

Do you WS's share with your BS what you are doing in IC?

No. I donít share anything personal about my life with him except as pertains to the kids, the house, and finances. Certainly NEVER something as private as IC.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 5:58 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

BlackRaven posted 11/19/2020 19:05 PM

Bulcy,

I dealt with things badly initially and denied, rug swept, hid from it and generally did not help myself or BS. This hit home after far too long and hit home hard. Since that time I've had multiple hits as more denials are unraveled

I just read your story. I'm glad you've seen the light. If you don't mind a suggestion, when you return to MC, I recommend a CSAT. Based on your porn history, I believe it would be appropriate and I promise your BS won't be blamed. In fact, a CSAT will guide you through a formal disclosure, which will help minimize the trauma that you are putting her through.

[This message edited by BlackRaven at 7:06 PM, November 19th (Thursday)]

Hedwig posted 11/22/2020 03:51 AM

I just want to thank you WS for answering all our questions. hikingout, BSR, JBWD, MrCleanSlate, Darkness Falls, forgettableDad, Bulcy, MrsWalloped, ff4152 and many more whose username I didn't register.

I've read all the posts in this thread and then went back to part 13 and read all the posts there as well. It really has led to a breakthrough in my recovery. It has given me the answers I need to to look back on my relationship and my wEXBF with understanding and nuance of where things went wrong, instead of idolizing or demonizing it/him. It helps me be less afraid of the next relationship. So thank you.


I have a question for the WS with KISA-tendencies.
Did you complain to your BS about doing all the stuff for people, while at the same time still doing the stuff? Did you do stuff for other people while denying or procrastinating doing stuff for your BS? If so, why did you put other people and their requests for help above your BS's? Was it the praise you got from the others, while your BS saw it as 'normal in a partnership'? Is it normal for a KISA to do grand gestures while forgetting and ignoring the small stuff?

I would love to get some more insight into this KISA-stuff, anything you can tell me about it would be appreciated.


Darkness Falls posted 11/23/2020 10:43 AM

Hedwig,

My H is similar to your description. Itís part of his passive aggressive personality. On the surface heís such a great guy, does all the things for all the people, so helpful, etc. Itís one of the qualities that attracted me to him way back when. But behind closed doors, he complains and resents ďall the thingsĒ that he in actuality does out of obligation rather than desire. Also, he doesnít care at all about me, his wife, and having any sort of healthy communication or emotional intimacy. Itís an exhausting way to live.

hikingout posted 11/23/2020 10:58 AM

Do you WS's share with your BS what you are doing in IC?
What prompts it?
Do you have some understanding with your BS about that sharing?
Or do you just go to IC and keep mum about whatever you are working on there?

So, what I eventually found worked best was to share as I had epiphanies/realizations. Sometimes it took many sessions for me to draw a circle around something. The details of what we talked about was probably far less meaningful then what it helped me to see.

I tried sharing appointment to appointment but what I found was that it caused us to fight. He didn't see the relevance of what was being covered, and it would feel like to him we were in there coming up with excuses, or not working on what was important to him. IC is a fluid process of self-discovery, and sometimes to see our blindspots or to have reflections on our ways of thinking or behavior patterns there is a lot of stuff in the middle where the counselor is just trying to see where to hone in on. I learned eventually to trust the process because at first even I thought, how the heck is this supposed to help me.

So, the things I started to make a circle around were the things that were puzzle pieces that were being put in place.

As my husband is now in those shoes, I find it disconcerting as to whether he is even leading the IC in any useful direction. He is self aware on some things, but not an introspective type of person. He has a lot of blind spots that I have no idea how she will uncover. I generally will just say how was IC? Did you guys work on something you found particularly useful today? And, right now he's telling me basically all about each appointment. That's been okay, because I get that sometimes it takes 20 appointments to get to an A-Ha moment, and sometimes you have one appointment and have 3 in the hour.

I am not sure this helps as I know your H has probably been in therapy a while and by your posts really doesn't seem to be coming to terms with much. Perhaps you are wondering if he's just doing it going through the motions. Depends on the IC. Some will just go with the flow and take your money and others will discharge you because they don't think they can go any further with you.

hikingout posted 11/23/2020 11:01 AM

When you are reminded of how treacherous you were does it serve as a reminder of who you never want to be again or does it just make you feel like you shouldnít be forgiven?

This evolved for me. When I was shame spiralling (most of the first year) I would say it was I should never be forgiven, it wasn't going to be possible. As I started making progress, it reminded me of things I wanted to change. And, then later, I came to acceptance. I found some of those discussions over my behavior was easier to have once I came to acceptance/self compassion. I don't think anyone starts there, and if it seemed like they did I would highly question their sincerity.

TwoDozen posted 11/23/2020 11:34 AM

Wonít go to IC

In many ways my WGF is showing me daily that she loves me, that she wants to be with me and I see improvements all the time.

She does not however tick all the boxes for a perfect candidate for R and some of those things seem so trivial to me that I canít understand why she fights them, that she almost seems to be willing to risk S/D over ticking those boxes.

One such item is IC, sheís been very clear she does not want to see a therapist either IC or MC. She will not give me a reason other than she doesnít want to but I can see the pain in her eyes from just the thought of it.

Why on earth would someone not be able to bring themselves to do this one small thing? What am I missing, whatís so terrible about speaking with a trained professional?

Would be interested to hear from anyone Who has experience with avoiding IC and reasons for this.

Edited to say: we can afford it so thatís not the problem. What I donít understand is potentially choosing a lifetime of pain after separation vs a few hours a month of discomfort. I just canít figure this out...

[This message edited by TwoDozen at 11:36 AM, November 23rd (Monday)]

ff4152 posted 11/23/2020 13:11 PM

TwoDozen

IMO itís because she is afraid to ďface her demonsĒ. Itís one thing to work on yourself by yourself or with your BS. Itís quite another to bare your soul to a total stranger. Personally I would have a big problem with her refusal to go.

Itís not so much as being in IC that bothers me. I donít think IC is necessarily for everyone and finding a good IC can be a challenge.

She should be willing to do whatever it takes flit be a better person and to ďfix her shitĒ. If itís one of your requirements, there shouldnít be any waffling or refusal on her part. IMO you are not making an unreasonable request.

fournlau posted 11/23/2020 16:45 PM

WS, how do you feel about your BS asking questions about the A? Whether it's 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years since Dday? Are you still open to it or do you think there should come a time when all questions should stop?

I ask because I still have questions and in the last conversation we had my WS said that he thought that I "was too focused on the details" and that it was "keeping me from moving forward". Also that in his opinion "each question is going to bring more questions and it will never end" and "there has to be a point at which questions stop because it keeps you in the past instead of moving forward". I kept pressing because I still have answers I'm looking for (we are almost 2 years from Dday 3-single A just 3rd bombshell).

IS there a point at which the BS has to STOP asking A questions? Am I asking too much?

MrsWalloped posted 11/24/2020 06:16 AM

WS, how do you feel about your BS asking questions about the A? Whether it's 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years since Dday? Are you still open to it or do you think there should come a time when all questions should stop?

IS there a point at which the BS has to STOP asking A questions? Am I asking too much?


Hi fournlau.

No, the BS doesnít have to stop asking and the BS should feel comfortable asking whatever they need to in order to heal. Time doesnít matter. My BH can ask whatever he wants whenever he wants and it can be as detailed as he wants. If heís asking, itís because he needs to. And I want to help him get through what heís going through by answering his questions.

Thatís the short answer, I guess. The longer answer is that it depends. I think at a certain point the BS should know why theyíre asking. Is it to heal? Is it because they didnít get satisfactory answers? Sometimes there arenít any, unfortunately. Is there information that their WS hasnít shared that the BS needs to know? Sometimes a BS will ask as a way to ďpunishĒ the WS or to put them down. Thatís totally understandable, but I can see that not getting a positive response.

Your WH sounds like heís being defensive. Him telling you that youre not moving forward means he just trying to rugsweep. Too focused on the details means he doesnít want to answer because heís embarrassed, ashamed, or has to admit things he doesnít want to. To me, it doesnít sound like youíve gotten the answers you need, so IMO you not only can ask, but you should ask as often as you need to.

Personally, my H wanted details. He asked over and over again. He stills asks certain things and we are 5 years out. But his questions are more about mindset and are philosophical about me, us, and who I was vs. who I am trying to be. But at this stage in our healing and growth and our R, I donít look at questions as an attack (I donít know that I ever did tbh, but they did induce shame spirals) but as a way to grow together. Itís what he needs and therefore what I need.

Are you divorcing or reconciling? If youíre trying to R, then his willingness to answer your questions and help you work through what heís done is a very big sign of whether heís someone you can R with.

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