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Emotionless Infidelity Part 4

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NotHisDoormat posted 1/30/2019 09:11 AM

Falling. I'm so sorry you're here for this too.
It is mind blowing how they can act like two different people--the adoring husband with us and the horrible cheating person while they are away.

Anyone that sees my husband interact with me would assume he was a wonderful husband. Kind, caring, thoughtful. Then out comes this monster.

I don't understand it at all.

veryhurt2018 posted 2/1/2019 18:56 PM

Anyone that sees my husband interact with me would assume he was a wonderful husband. Kind, caring, thoughtful. Then out comes this monster.

NotHisDoormat - I don't usually post that much but I had to respond to this. My WH was EXACTLY the same as yours. In fact, I can remember 2 different people telling me that they wished that there relationship with their husband was like ours. I'm sure if they knew what we're going through now, they definitely wouldn't be saying that. LOL

NotHisDoormat posted 2/2/2019 19:16 PM

I'm having a tough time today and was hoping some of you all could chime in.

WS and I have been discussing WHY the hell he feels the need to have emotionless infidelity.

Our relationship was great. We don't fight. We were best friends. We had a very active and satisfying sex life. He claims he has always been happy with me.


It makes me so SICK to think that someone that is usually a good person would go and do something so disgusting and cold. To me, it's worse than a typical affair. It's literally just using someone else as a place to stick his penis.

Shocked123 posted 2/3/2019 14:14 PM

What does he say when you ask him why?
Do you get ďI donít knowĒ?
Is he seeing an IC? Are you?
I am almost 9 months from DDay and Iím still getting I donít know answers but have pretty much stopped asking.
Iíll explain more if you care to share what your Hís explanation is. I can only talk about my experience but maybe you will find some parallels that will help you understand. I am still at a loss as to how someone can lead a double life such as this, knowing full well the hurt it inflicts in their spouse and family.
Youíre not alone today, we are all here and understand how isolating this can be.

NotHisDoormat posted 2/5/2019 13:32 PM


He is in IC right now. I am working on finding my own IC.

He claims it's like a compulsion. and that he really doesn't think about it. He just does it almost like he's on autopilot. and I ask him if he considers the consequences and he says no. It sounds like addiction behavior which I want to believe. But at the same time, one does not detox or withdrawal from prostitutes!

He says he is happy with me, that he loves me, that I turn him on, that I am everything he wants.

It makes me feel sick.

I'd love to hear your story too.

Shocked123 posted 2/5/2019 14:06 PM

My recap for the sake of getting to know one another is this: My H visited massage parlours and prostitiues in their homes for the past 12 years (married 22 at the time) that I know of. He claims to never have had Full sex. only oral and hand jobs When I finally figured it out, he was ashaemed and remorseful and after 8 months of so so therapy, we are seeking more specialized help. Addiction or no addiction, I am disguested by his actions and hurt beyond words.
I don't know the details of your story but you do mention that after R your H is acting out again.
What steps did you take after your first D to get help for yourself? Your priority this second time would be to seek out a great therapist and get to work on yourself. If you don't like the therapist you find, find another. I had a lousy one the first time and eventually found someone who specializes in sexual betrayal trauma. Very happy that your H is in IC but I care more that you get the help you need to deal with him.
Sorry to say but his "auto-pilot", out of body experience (it's like I see myself doing it but it's not really me) and it's a compulsion sound like excuses to me. Nobody's body is run by anyone else but themselves. Nobody is searching for sex partners, nobody is driving him there, nobody is participating in the act. He is fully conscious and aware he is doing this and it sounds like he does it over and over despite the consequences.
Unless he flies planes, the auto-pilot excuse is a very lame one at best. I am assuming your H is seeking out sexual acts with strangers on a regular basis and claims he can't help himself, correct?
Was he forthcoming or did you catch him again this time? Is he accountable to you regarding his whereabouts, spending, access to his cell phone, computer etc?
You mention you think it sounds like an addiction which you'd like to believe. Why do you want to believe it's an addiction? So he can excuse the behaviour? Addiction is not an excuse, it does not excuse your hurt feelings, your sense of rejection, your humiliation, your hearbreak, nor does it replace any money in the bank which he may have spent on his activites.
Lastly, the addiction excuse does not negate he time and energy your H puts into getting his next fix at the cost of turning away from your both emotionally and physically. You may have children who have probably also been ignored during this time. Dads have a hard time concentrating on their little ones when they're in texting mode with hook up sites and prostitutes. Dealing with kids is a mood breaker.
Notyourdoormat, you chose your SI nickname for a reason.
Think about why and stick to your guns. Only you know what is acceptable to you. Keep trying to find an IC please....
Please keep us posted.

NotHisDoormat posted 2/5/2019 14:35 PM


My story is that I busted him seeing prostitutes about 5 years ago. We both went through counseling and enacted full transparency. I did not know about SI at the time. I became lax on monitoring his phone and computer and rarely checked them anymore. Our relationship seemed to be great.

Recently I looked at his WORK phone and found a website for a prostitute. I confronted him and at first he claimed the link was randomly texted to him. I did some investigative work and discovered that link is all over the internet as a scam to try to get men to sign up for a cam site. He had been in a hotel for business in another city so I dug around on Craig's List and found the ad that the link had originated from. I texted the number on there and received the same link in return.

I scoured his phones and computer for more evidence and came up empty handed. Unfortunately his work phone is next to impossible to recover information from because it has an encrypted VPN that I cannot bypass.

WH claims he never actually slept with anyone this time. Granted, he couldn't sleep with the "woman" in the ad because she doesn't exist. But he sure was trying to do it! I have no way to prove if there were other instances. He acts like I caught him doing it the first time since R.

He does claim "I don't know" when I ask him why he does it. He says he is satisfied and happy with our marriage. If he wasn't, he sure is a good actor.

But then he goes and he does this garbage. He is willing to risk everything. He does claim that it's compulsive. That he could be watching a non erotic movie and before he knows it, he is browsing the internet for hookers. I want to know how he'd pay for it as I control the finances, but I remind myself, where there is a will, there is a way.

He did do something really suspicious starting a few months back. He went to the grocery store and came home and gave me the receipt to "prove" that he didn't take any cash back out. I have never asked him to do that. Guilty conscious perhaps?

I am getting IC. My old therapist unfortunately moved. WH was able to get back in with his old therapist which is how he's back into it so quickly.

As for him neglecting me or the kids, he never has. It's really weird which is why I was so blindsided by this. He was acting normal.

Shocked123 posted 2/5/2019 18:18 PM

Very kindly, he does neglect you and the kids. He admits to watching a regular movie then going on to look at hookers.
Is he in the moment during that time? Is he fully enjoying your presence while oggling and fantasizing over these sites?
He admits to being preoccupied by these thoughts and acts on them by looking at sites. While he does such things, is he focused on your or your family?
While he may seem very present and engaged with you and your children, there is a chance that he is preoccupied by other thoughts. If he has caused you anguish over his habit, then he is neglecting your emotional needs. If he has made his children's mother unhappy, then he is neglecting his childrens' needs.
Just because a man appears to be involved and interested in his family's life, doesn't mean he's fully there. If in between these moments which appear to be genuine, he is thinking about, planning and/or acting on his fantasies, unfortunately, he is being neglectful towards you and the family.
He is allowing his "compulsion" to come between you. He has introduced a third party into your marriage; real or fantasized.
I have read too many posts from spouses who claim their partner was attentive, involved and loving and yet...they find themselves on SI.
As for not having money for prostitutes, things have changed in the last 5 years. There are plenty of free hook up sites. Very easy and free sex; all kinds of fetishes and special interests. It's no longer necessary to pay for anything.
Notyourroormat, I would encourage you to really explore the possiblity that your H is acting upon his impulses or at the very least probably wishing he could.
Please watch carefully and keep looking for evidence.
One easy way to find out where he's at is to accidentally forget your phone in his car. Then watch the location history on your phone. Do this until he finds it then pretend you were looking for it. It's a cheap and easy GPS. If you have find my friends with your children then you can monitor your phone on their phone. I believe you can also load your location on a computer.
Turn off the ringer. place it under a car mat and watch for a few days.
Keep in touch.

Perdita1 posted 2/7/2019 09:17 AM

Nothisdoormat - just checking in to see how you are doing. Good to hear your H is back in IC. I hope you find a good therapist soon.

I donít understand how they can do something so disgusting and cold either. Itís mind-boggling and something I really struggle with.

Perdita1 posted 2/7/2019 09:21 AM

Shocked - I wish you could explain how thinking about / planning these encounters = neglect of oneís spouse and family to my WH. He genuinely doesnít seem to get it - saying that he didnít Ďabandoní us in the way someone who has a traditional affair or a second secret family does. I hate that argument.

Shocked123 posted 2/7/2019 14:46 PM

He is sucking you into his sick world.
You donít believe for a second that his habit didnít take anything away from you and the family.
He took full advantage of you and the fact that you hold down the fort and gave him freedom to come and go and do things that were destructive to the marriage.
If you left him at home after an afternoon of ďshoppingĒ for a giggolo on line, drive to the location, looked forward to it, enjoyed it, spent money on it then got back in the car and thought about it all the way home, would that take away from your family time? You bet it would.
Add to that the anticipation and planning for the next encounter, the lying and cheating that goes along with a double life and maybe he would see that when the roles are reversed it doesnít seem so trivial, does it?
Ask him to imagine that a few hundred times. Then ask him if he thinks he and the kids would feel neglected by you.
Your H is being very selfish by not admitting he has done wrong. One of the steps Iím SA is acknowledging how this habit harms the family. I am very early In my SANON experience but I can tell you hat all the spouses in these types of groups have one thing in common- they were taken advantage of and fell victimized.
If your husband is not feeling humiliated, guilty and /or remorseful, he will need to talk to an IC pretty quickly or you are going to find it very hard to live this way.
I hope Iím not coming off as being harsh with you. Itís just that his denial makes me so angry, and very sad for you.

NotHisDoormat posted 2/7/2019 18:02 PM

Shocked, I understand. It is kind of you to be concerned about me.

WH is in IC. He started back immediately.

He does admit he has done wrong. If he actually FEELS it, I don't know. He appears remorseful and has given up control of all of his phones and electronics. I have monitoring software on all of them. He has begged for me to give him the chance to R again and swears it will be forever this time. I'm not sure why he thinks that the first time around was just a trial period. There is never enough monitoring in the world to take away the feelings of distrust and betrayal and the worries.

It seems I caught him in his first foray back to contact prostitutes or find someone for free to hook up with. As far as I can tell, no physical contact was made. However, the intention is just as bad.

It's all just tiring. I am so angry at him. This is jeopardizing my future. I made a post in General about me ending up in jail over this crap. HIS CRAP. I didn't do this to us. I have always been faithful and loyal.

How are the rest of you holding up?

sami1234 posted 2/8/2019 07:43 AM

I can completely relate to the "great husband" if anyone knew he did these things they would be completely shocked. I hear all the time about what a great man he is, but I know that everyone has good and evil (or whatever we want to term these) lurking inside.

I've had a rough week. My WH has been out of town to one of the areas where he frequented another woman. We did not discuss ahead of time and now I see he has had his phone tracker off all week. He has been under so much stress and I know stress triggers these behaviors. I have been concerned about the amount of masturbation he is doing. Weird topic, I know, but does anyone have any thoughts about their WH or SO masturbating constantly? And if so does that disturb you? It really upsets me greatly and I'm trying to figure out why. We are no longer in MC, I am continuing IC but he says he "doesn't need it anymore." Ugh.

NothisDoormat: You may need to remove yourself from the situation if only temporarily. Don't let him pull you down with his drowning. And yes, this is the ultimate lesson in "life is not fair."

I've read many times here about the husbands who swear "it will never happen again" and then it does. My own said the same thing. I think it's a matter of time, myself, at least in my situation.

Falling posted 2/8/2019 10:49 AM

Sorry I wasn't able to get back on here for a while. Perdita1 it does sound like our situations are very similar. You asked some good questions.

You say your WS is asking what he can do. Is he in IC? Has he broken off contact with his friends that think this is ok? Are you both in MC? Is moving back to your home country an option (you might feel more supported there, even if your family and friends don't know the full extent of your issues)? Are you confident that this behaviour is in the past (if not, what can he do to help you become confident)?

WH is in IC and was for nearly a year before D-day, which does make me wonder if it's having an effect, but he went into IC for compulsion disorder relating mainly to alcohol. It SEEMS the EAs weren't due to compulsion but who knows. He's quit alcohol. He's not broken contact with the friends, but I haven't asked him to. As much as I've lost all respect for them as well, they're really old friends, and it's basically all his friends, sad as that sounds. There aren't many and he rarely sees them.

I want to start MC. My therapist I think is stalling me, perhaps she doesn't want us to do MC until she thinks I'm really intent on reconciling, and less on the fence? We already had plans to move back to my home country next year. The only way to go sooner would be to break up the family.

In terms of knowing if his behaviour is in the past, well.. do any of us know? I mean, I KNEW he would never do this to me for 15 years, yet he did. I have believed so many lies that I doubt everything. He seems genuine about never doing it again, but clearly he is somewhat the actor. I think I worry that right now he believes he won't do it again, but what in 5 or 10 years when the memory of this shit has worn off.

I've read about post-nuptial agreements since I read your post as I'd not heard of them. Have you had that set up in the country where you're living? Would you move to your home country if you split and would it be legally binding there?

[This message edited by Falling at 10:59 AM, February 8th (Friday)]

Falling posted 2/8/2019 10:58 AM

NotHisDoormat I've also been stuck on the WHY question. I think the sad truth of it is, at least for my WH, because he could. Because he knew I would never find out. And because he wanted to. I've got a little lost with what's happened with your WH. Have you had another D-day? You are sure he has clicked on something with the intention to contact a prostitute? What did the craiglist ad say? It's such a shitty thing to do to someone, especially the person they supposedly love most.

If I decide to throw my heart into R, I really do think my boundary and absolute dealbreaker would have to be another D-day. Because if you forgive twice, when does it end? If they don't choose to change the first time, will they ever? Although obviously I know this is far easier said than done, because I never thought I would be here still after my WH did all that he did.

I'd really like to know if there is anyone here who has a story of a positive reconciliation? Someone who is truly happy and doesn't sometimes wonder if they should've left. I don't find any and I don't know if that is because they no longer need this place or because its almost impossible for it to happen.

What I do keep reading is stories of R followed by yet more cheating of one form or another. The once a cheater, always a cheater phrase really haunts me.

sami1234 posted 2/8/2019 21:14 PM

I'll tackle that question Falling. I think it is possible to have a happy reconciliation with a lot of work. However, I don't think it is possible to ever close the door on the trust thing, I think there will always lurk an element of doubt. I know that for myself when I am feeling too comfortable it seems to creep back in. As I've told my WH "the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior" and he hates when I say that. If/when it happens again I know i won't be so shocked, I'll just say "yep, there it is" which is kinda sad.

Also, as to the "why" do they do this? Our MC said "you'll never understand it" and I do believe that. My brain is just wired so differently I guess that it's not even in the furthest reaches of my imagination to understand anything like that. My WH said he didn't want a relationship, he already had that with me...so what, then? Attention, affirmation and complete adoration...he's a narcisist which I am now able to clearly see. I am never going to be able to fill that void for him...so, now what?

Falling posted 2/12/2019 13:01 PM

Me again. Can I ask everyone about "second chances"?

Do you think it counts as a 2nd chance if the person has actually had maybe 50 ONS plus kissed maybe double that? Isn't 2nd chance for the people who made a "mistake" rather than continuing to do the same thing over and over again because they didn't get found out? Or even a couple of mistakes before confessing? I think perhaps I am struggling with anger and the need for him to suffer, and I don't see him suffering even though he says he is. Me giving him a 2nd chance seems so easy for him and like he doesn't deserve it. How can a very intelligent man never in 15 years have seen this (me finding out) as a possibility???

Somber posted 2/12/2019 14:27 PM

I just read through some of these posts and I struggle with the same questions. Why do they do this? Does anyone have a positive R story? Does it count as a second chance?

I havenít found any answers either or perhaps I am having a hard time accepting the truthful answers. Such as they do this because it is an addiction from deeply rooted untreated problems of their own. Or there are no positive R, the trust is never rebuilt and you always fear a relapse of the same behaviour. As for second chances, when they had that many emotionless affairs then they have had all the chances they deserve!

I feel stuck and heartbroken too. I am realizing that I will never understand my wH because I would never be able to live with myself if I treated him or anyone else the way he has treated me.

I feel deeply offended now when he claims to love me or try to have sex with me. I have come to feel more like an object to fill his sexual fantasies and desires. Plus I can not get these other women or encounters out of my head when he touches me! So there is no real enjoyment for me. So even though he claims to love me and wants to make our marriage work, I think it is just that he wants me to go back to rugsweeping and letting him fool me. When I stopped searching for his infidelities, I would find peace and some happiness in our marriage. He so easily plays a decent husband at the same time. All I was really doing was postponing the reality of it all as it is too damn painful to accept! Each time I did a little searching, something was always found to break my heart.

Now I am at a crossroad of do I try to stay married for our kids or leave. I no longer see change as a possibility. In MC, he told the counselling and myself everything we would want to hear but has done nothing to change. The way he makes me feel guilty when I turn him down sexually is one sign of how unremorseful he is. He is so selfish! The way he minimizes his behaviours when I talk about how I feel is another sign. I still get trickle truths and he has never admitted what an affair partner disclosed despite hotel receipts, etc.!
It is such an insult to my intelligence and the fact that he has successfully gaslighted me before is too. The lies to cover his selfish cheating ways is sickening!
I also have people thinking I have this great husband. He is handsome, charming, charismatic. Of course he has them fooled, he had me fooled too!!!

[This message edited by Somber at 2:30 PM, February 12th (Tuesday)]

sami1234 posted 2/12/2019 17:01 PM

Falling, I've had the same question about second chances. Sounds like what they say when they've been caught! I told my WH I could understand a mistake but when the behavior has been done repeatedly...no mistake there.


I have come to feel more like an object to fill his sexual fantasies and desires
isn't this the thing! I see how happy I can make him yet it makes me feel so empty inside. What a hell. I have only ever been betrayed through sex, here it is again.

Oh Somber, I watched a few videos on infidelity with relationship experts recently. They were stating that the one thing to watch out for is "charming." Especially when someone is "charming" in a social context because that should be a red flag as far as being in a relationship with someone. Yikes, I'm in big trouble as my WH can work a room like no ones business. I'm the introvert...no worries there.

I'm still watching the little bottle of lubricant move every single day. Every time I see that he uses it I feel a little more dead inside. How does anyone else feel about their WH masturbating? Mine doesn't know that I am aware but the frequency is really freaking me out now. I don't think it wouldv'e bothered me that much before D-day but, now, it just reminds me of all of it.

Somber posted 2/12/2019 19:17 PM


Yes, it feels so empty to be used this way. I feel so objectified by my own spouse. He doesnít need or want me, he just wants sex or pleasure of some sort. I could be anyone, must be why it is so easy for him to cheat. I give in just to keep the peace but it is getting harder to do so.
I think he tries to love me in the most minimal way that he knows how. I think he loves to have a family life to make him look the part to others. I also think his behaviour shows me that he may as well just be single. I mean, wouldnít it be easier!! He complains of anxiety and sleep problems. No shit!! If anyone lives a double life and has any goodness in them naturally they should have a hard time sleeping.

My WH can also work a room like that, he is the life of the party. I wish I never fell for his damn charm in the first place. I would see it is a red flag going forward for sure!!

As for the masturbating, I am not aware of how often, etc my WH does this. I would rather it than him trying to be with me though-lol. How can he possibly with such ease have sex with me while trying to have sex with other women. He claims it is not about sex and only had one affair. I doubt it! It is only one affair that I know of and multiple that I expect from the tail end of messages with significant hints of intent.

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