SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You know that feeling in your gut that tells you that you know better, and then you ignore it? Well, next time I will listen.

The best way to explain how I feel is to compare it to a suspense movie. You know the killer is kept a secret til the end. You have the obvious choice for the culprit, the shifty one who fits the stereotypical form as the one who did it. But you know the movie is too good for it to have them as the bad guy, so you immediately rule him out as a suspect.....only to find the twist is, that obvious suspect, the one who fit the mold but you kept defending in your mind as "it couldn't possibly be them"??....hes the one who did it . Then you are mad as hell at the movie for wasting your time, tricking your better judgement, and resulting in the obvious outcome. All the while, you've been suspecting that one who seemed a little shifty and quiet...the one who screwed up a little bit, just enough to justify thinking it was them all the while. Until that one gets killed and you realize u were wrong and are stumped.

My husband of one year, together coming up on 8 years, confessed under pressure that three years ago he slept with our friend's girlfriend twice. Now, I am not a person who can't forgive an indiscretion. I don't believe it has to be a dealbreaker. However, I do have an issue with someone who accuses you of doing what they have already done. That I may could even get over...

What I don't know if i can or even want to get over is the man I love, have been through everything imaginable with over the last almost decade, who one of the core foundations of his personality was his commitment to fidelity and honesty. I don't mean a normal commitment, I mean hard core. He said it was an absolute deal breaker. All of his exes cheated on him. He saw his mom cheat on his dad, his sister cheat on her bf, all women he loved had cheated and I thought inwas paying their debts by submitting to his constant calls, questions, his tracking, ECT. I was going to prove him wrong and that I did really love him. Everyone he knew had heard the story of when his friends old lady had hit on him while her man was away, and he slept w her, he immediately told his friend bc he was just "that honest ". He had made a mistake and he fessed up. Ask anyone and they'd tell u how good and honest he was and how he was so hurt by his sons mother when she cheated he didn't even date again for 7 years. So faithfulness was a big issue.

So much so, he began to have tantrums where he would break things and cry out of suspicion. All of the blame for these tantrums would come from (in his words), a time when we had been dating about 8 months, and I flirted with someone at a party. He asked me not to that night and said it hurt him. At the time I didn't realize that's what i was doing. I just thought i was enjoying a conversation. It so happemed that the next nigjt we saw the same person, and i did flirt w him again. I sort of knew I was that night, but I also had been Trying to include my bf in the conversation too, which he mostly declined. He felt like u spit in his face by flirting in front of him, after he told me not to. As a matter of fact he may have even said don't even speak to that person . We were living together then, but not engaged, and less than a year in.

We were engaged about 6 mos later.

I haven't committed any "crimes" since then. No flirting, no sexting, no looking at my other options online late at nite.

Things were not always good, but even when I had the chance to see someone else behind his back, I chose not to.

We went through a period where I was insecure about my body, and our bedroom life suffered. I said in desperate depression- ridden attention- seeking form for him to go sleep w someone else more than once bc I knew he couldn't possibly really want to sleep w me. Sex was down to a few times a month. But not completely gone. Now, never did I have a rational conversation where I oked an open relationship. I was severely depressed and insecure . But now he lists that as a partial reason for cheating. He also lists me flirting w someone 3 years prior as an excuse for what he did . He says he feels any cheating is equal, no matter what is involved. Well,I disagree and always have. Even before I knew what he did .

He has apologized, cried, swore it was a mistake, blah blah blah. Been nice to me mostly, until he's tired of feeling like the bad guy and brings up my flirting again. Literally less than a week after I've found out . When he told me I was completely calm and rational (to my surprise), I told him immediately I forgive him for the sex part . I said i wasn't sure about the years since where he should have been more lenient to me, when he accused me of things (that were not true). I meant it too. I can forgive the sex. But making an excuse for it i can't. Coming up on about 4 years from when he did that I can think of a number of times he's exploded at me in rage all supposedly stemming from my screw up 7 years ago.

He didn't come clean before we got married. He didn't come clean when I asked him specifically if he had slept w this woman, because I had been hearing rumors from people several times. I always ignored them once he said " no". We were engaged by then, for a while. I was raising his nephews for his sister in our house. I was doing everything I could to try to feel better about myself and want sex again. But it wasn't enough. He wasn't willing to wait on me to get better . His "need" for sex was greater than his need to not hurt me. He's always been the social butterfly, so letting him scoot around town ant time of day or night was never a concern to me....because I trusted him.

He claims to have kept it a secret so long bc he didn't want to hurt me. I believe that. I just have an issue with that being such a large part of "who he was" and it not being true. It can't be who he was or who he is, or he would have risked the consequence to maintain his honestly.

Am I wrong for feeling like infidelity was more hurtful coming from someone who touts the reputation as an honest and faithful person? Who uses it as a basis of a relationship. Who used it as a reason to feel superior when he would accuse me of things or basically stalk me when I wasn't near him?

Am I wrong for thinking my mistake wasn't of the same magnitude as his? 8 months vs 4 years together. Engaged vs not engaged sex vs flirting????

He s even said mine was worse because I did it in front of him. That at least I had no idea what he was doing. Is that anyone else's feelings?

Then, when I told our friend what happened, and he asked my husband if I was telling the truth, for two days he lied to his friend and made me look like a liar!! He finally fessed up, after a good dose of reasoning and guilt. The friend says if he'dhave known then, it would have saved him a lot of heartache. At which point my husband told him "well of I would have known it would make a difference to you, I'dhave told u then.".....really....so you'd have told him to save him heartache but not me? You'd have told him even though you were keeping it from me to "protect" me??? So is his friends feelings more important than shielding me from mine????

To top it off, this girl has cheated several times, and my husband didn't even use a condom w her!!!! Luckily, I've been checked and have had my normal exams...but really?? Irresponsible on top of cheating ? HE DIDN'T bother getting checked out after....even in secret to see if he may be spreading something to me!!

I even had sex w him two days after I found out just to try to help move on as quickly as possible. I lasted almost halfway through before her image showed up.

How long do I get to be a basket case? Before I'm playing the victim? I put on a good face for my parents at Xmas for both of our benefit. I didn't want questions, and I was saving him dirty looks from my family. Or worse from my mom id imagine.

We are supposed to move to Fla in the next month together into my family's home to help take care of my grandmother. Is that even a good idea now? Should I go alone?

I've always been quick to forgive, to a fault. He never has had any real consequences for his actions, like his jealous behavior or outbursts. They've only continued and gotten worse. Am I opening up myself to him doing it again bc he hasn't gotten real consequences yet?

I'd like to hear a cheaters perspective. And people who have been cheated on...

Please and thank you...i need some advice, and my friends saying "dump his ass" are comforting but not necessarily the best advice. Or is it?

Oh, and just to add a little more insult to injury, my husband didn't avoid seeing this woman again. We've routinely had her and her bf over honour house, helped them fix vehicles (which is when the sex happened before btw..my then bf was helping her fix her car and seeing her bent over the car just "turned him on or got him thinking about it"). We even had them (and HER kids )stay with us for several weeks when there was a gap between leases and they had no home!!! He literally had this b*** sleeping in my living room after they had sex!!°

I don’t have any great advice, but my WH has always been very jealous too. Even jealous of past relationships I was in before I ever met him. I didn’t think much of it at the time, but I realize now it was his way of making himself feel better about his infidelity.

Byes329

I'd totally be raging mad if he had been cheating constantly, and acted that way. I am mad too because his behavior didn't change in the jealous dept after he knew he messed up. Seems like someone sincere in their convictions would have a slight change of heart once they broke their own rules. To me, of I were giving advice, the lack of empathy towards my flirting episode after he slept w someone else says that he's just interested in NOT being cheated on, not being fair and equal. Double standard type of crap that I'm not o.k. with.

The thing about infidelity is that once it happens, problems in the marriage that could have been fixable are suddenly deal breaker. It's completely normal that you feel like the infidelity could be worked through but the jealousy and continued bad behavior is a deal breaker. You can't R with someone who thinks his betrayal comes second to your flirting. I also have to question just how bad this flirting was since your WH flies off the handle so easily. Were inappropriate comments made? Were you complimenting this person? Touching him? Or were you just being nice to him in front of your WH and he took issue with that?

You're not going to be able to move forward with him if he doesn't take accountability for the A. I also suspect that you don't have the full truth. He had many opportunities to keep the A going and sleep with her more than he admits to. Check out the 180 in the healing library and implement it. If you're leaning towards divorce, see a lawyer and get an idea of what that looks like and what you will need to do for it. You don't have to file right away but the knowledge alone will help you feel empowered to do so if you need to.

@nekonamida

The flirting wasn't anything as bad as making any suggestions of inappropriate things, nor did it come w anything more than a possible toicjinh of his hand when we were speaking. TBH, I don't even think that happened, but I can't remember. Just an engaging conversation with him, and yes, I did find him attractive at the time. My bf gets really mad bc the guy needed a d.d. home after, (about 2 am) and I offered to bring him home after my bf said he would. By the way, my bf didn't have a valid license at that time, either. And the girls house we were at wanted someone to stay w her bc she was deali ng w the death of her partner and didn't want to be alone at all. So I insisted because of the late hour that I give him a ride. Ultimately, my bf gave him a ride home, but he insists I wanted to drive the guy hone to sleep w him. Honestly, that's not why. I never intended to sleep w him. I did honestly enjoy the attention and o realize that was wrong to do.

He really takes issue that it took me a long time to admit to myself, much less him, that I was even flirting outwardly. And that flirting was wrong. I wasn't brought up to think flirting =cheating. I did not see that as a form of emotional cheating until several years ago, when I realized how hurt he was by it. I first thought he was being over protective and insane, and discounted his feelings because they were expressed in the tyrant way he likes to get when he's jealous. It's like he immediately is asking a question in an accusatory way, which makes me immediately defend myself against being attacked, instead of hearing what feelings are behind his emotional outburts. Then I get chastised for defending myself when I try to explain. He doesn't understand that I can explain and tell him how I was feeling and also N : OT be defending my actions.

What he perceived as flirting is not sufficient reason for your husband's behavior. His jealousy is not your creation . . . it is his brokenness. It is deflection, blame-shifting. He is trying to make his lack of boundaries your fault. This is not your fault.

Melanie Scarlett, I'm sorry this has happened to you and I can totally relate to it. My wife, after 15 years of being jealous and insecure and overprotective with me, had an affair last year. In addition to the grief and pain such a betrayal causes, I had to deal with shock, because she was always the one who was accusing me.

And I'm not kidding you when I say the things that set my wife off were absolutely trivial. She used to hit me and scream at me if she thought I even glimpsed a woman in the supermarket for a split second. The stories I could tell you. It was very painful for me because I loved her. To distill it down to just one story, a few years ago, we went to visit an old high school friend of hers in Louisiana. Her friend's 16-year-old daughter and 12-year-old son spent time talking with me and petting our cat (yes, we took our cat because he was on some medication and we couldn't leave him alone). At one point, the daughter sat next to me on their living-room couch and handed me cookies, which I ate, even though I'm not normally that big on cookies. Keep in mind, I'm about 40 years old at this time. My wife literally treated this as if I had slept with the girl. She fought with me about it every day for a year. There was no flirtation, at least not in my mind. She was just a kid. Then last year, my wife hooked up with a guy. So essentially she had a "revenge affair" even though I was faithful.

To answer your questions:

No, you're not wrong for feeling that his infidelity is worse coming from him, since he was always jealous with you and accusing you. My wife did the same thing to me, always trying to make me live my life in shame, make me feel like trash, and then she went and slept with another man.

No, you're not wrong for thinking your "indiscretion" was trivial compared to your husband's. I do not agree with him that your minor flirtation is equal to or worse than his actual sleeping with another woman. That is completely ridiculous. I hope you don't even take it seriously.

By the way, I would note that after my wife's affair, my lawyer and therapist both had to tell me that projection is very common. He accuses you of flirting because if he were in your shoes that's what he would have been doing. He looked at other women with desire all the time, so he just naturally thought you were doing the same with men. Same was true with my wife. It may operate on a subconscious level, but that's what it is - projection.

I'm not sure where you want to go with your husband, but to be honest, my wife's lack of forgiveness toward me and blameshifting with me are two major reasons why I want to divorce her rather than reconcile. There are others as well but those two are the relevant ones here.

Forgiveness: When my wife was upset with me, I begged her forgiveness all the time and she never would forgive me. Even when it was trivial and when I could even argue that I didn't really do anything wrong. Even when she would pay lip service to forgiving me, she would be back to holding it against me when it suited her - which I don't believe is real forgiveness. So when it came to a major indiscretion - actually having sex with another man - how did she have the balls to ask my forgiveness? I cannot and have not been able to.

Blameshifting: Yes, my wife does this. And I am so glad I came to forums like this because it taught me that it's pretty standard in the cheater's playbook. She has tried so many times to make me feel like her affair was my fault. I took the cookies from her friend's daughter. I looked at women. I did this and that. I sucked in bed. Whatever. But this forum made me stronger and "immunized" me against that. I have never accepted the blame from her. I hope the same will be true with you. Do not internally accept any kind of responsibility for him cheating on you. You as a couple may have had your issues like any other, but the choice to cheat was entirely on him, 100%. Do not doubt yourself. Do not suspect yourself of having caused it. You did nothing to cause it. It's not even one-billionth of a percent your fault. Do not allow your husband to tell you that it is.

Another thing to keep in mind: Another reason I don't want to reconcile is because I don't want to put myself in the same position as was before with respect to my wife - on the receiving end of her jealousy and possessiveness. After she slept with another man, I can never go back to where we used to be. I can never go back to letting her treat me that way. She has tried but I don't play the game anymore. Likewise, I hope you do not let him treat you that way any longer. You are a free person. You are not his property. You are not his chattel.

Also, yes I would agree that you should not go to Florida with him or make any major plans with him for the time being, until you decide whether you want to divorce or reconcile. I would also agree that you should not by any means be quick to forgive him. Stay strong in that regard.

Finally, you can be a basketcase as long as you need to. There is no time limit. A partner's infidelity is the worst thing that can happen to someone. In my case I was in shock and grief for months, and my doctor had to put me on anti-depressants, which have definitely helped.

I hope this helps, Melanie. Please keep us updated.

[This message edited by OneLittleVictory at 4:49 PM, December 27th (Wednesday)]

@OneLittleVictory

Thank you for your response. I appreciate you answering my questions. It is sad but nice to hear someone else who has been through the same thing.

It's got me thinking that the right choice is probably the choice that I find the hardest to do. It'd be much easier (for the moment) to just sweep it away and hope for the best. I would probably get just enough change out of him temporarily

To suck me back into our old routine in a few weeks or months. But it is going to be excruciating to leave, no matter how long it is for, if not for good. So thank you for reading and sharing back with me. I am very grateful to anyone's suggestions or experience.

Your anger is completely justified. However, he CANNOT blame you for the affair. If he is it's almost a sure sign that he will have another affair because he isn't even taking responsibility for the first one. I think the two of you need serous marriage counseling because he can't expect you to keep walking on your toes when he didn't even stay faithful. Don't let him make excuses and seek professional help.

I first thought he was being over protective and insane, and discounted his feelings because they were expressed in the tyrant way he likes to get when he's jealous.

Your first thought was right. If you don't remember touching this guy's hand, it probably didn't even happen and was another lie by your WH to make it look worse than it really was. I asked because I suspected that you weren't actually flirting and that your WH made it all up as justification for his indiscretions.

Leaving is hard now but it's 100x easier than staying and being emotionally abused by your WH, controlled, and cheated on again. Pretending it didn't happen sounds easy but it's actually damn near impossible. Infidelity hurts. It's extremely painful and impossible to forget. If you tried to do this, no matter how successful you could be at first, you will wake up in pain and sorrow one day even years later even if by some miracle your WH cuts the crap with the accusations and never cheats again.

It'd be much easier (for the moment) to just sweep it away and hope for the best.

Melanie, whatever you do, please don't do this. You almost used the expression yourself; it's called rug-sweeping, or sweeping it under the rug, which rarely if ever works.

The main thing you need to do is get yourself out of infidelity. If you divorce, that's a permanent solution with your current husband. If you choose to try to reconcile with him, that requires hard work for both you and him, and he has to want reconciliation as well. I admit that I am not well-versed in reconciliation myself but I would encourage you to read in the reconciliation forum here, and to take advice from those who have gone through the process, and to read in the Healing Library to find out what it would entail.

But please do one or the other. Either decision will be hard but will be better for you in the long run than the "easy" decision of sweeping it under the rug, and keeping your fingers crossed and hoping it won't happen again - because it probably will.

((((Melaniescarlett))))

Oh sweetie, please consider at least temporary separation (see an attorney of course for advice) from this emotionally abusive man. He has gaslighted you so badly.

I do NOT recommend MC (marriage counseling) but IC (individual counseling)- he is very broken and needs intensive, long-term therapy, and you need IC to help you get your self esteem back. He has slowly taken away Melaniescarlett by his jealous, controlling actions. You're afraid of your own shadow. And him...well, let's just say double standard personified.

Sadly, his behavior will never stop without serious help. You cannot fix him...it's too deep seated. I also have a gut feeling that this is not his first A. I'm so sorry.

Please take care of yourself. Keep posting.

Hugs...

Lala

What I don't know if i can or even want to get over is the man I love, have been through everything imaginable with over the last almost decade, who one of the core foundations of his personality was his commitment to fidelity and honesty. I don't mean a normal commitment, I mean hard core. He said it was an absolute deal breaker. All of his exes cheated on him. He saw his mom cheat on his dad, his sister cheat on her bf, all women he loved had cheated

Based on his behavior, I'd wager that if you talked to his exes, you'd find out that he was the cheater in those relationships as well. The more stories you read here, you'd be amazed at the number of cheaters that claim they were always cheated on. And the louder they claim to hate cheating, the more likely that they are the one doing the cheating. It's like the boy who cried wolf, but with the sick twist that he's actually the wolf.

And I agree that he's projecting his shitty behavior on you. It reminds me of the race car driver that was cheating and still got beaten, so by his logic, if he was cheating and got beaten, then the person that beat him must be cheating as well.

Please don't allow this to be swept under the rug or it will happen again. Only this time it will be blamed on something like "you left dirty dishes in the sink overnight July 12, 2015, so I was justified to sleep with someone else."

Well, my husband wanted to know what I've been doing online. I told him he was free to read what I had written in for advice or clarity. He feels like I was not honest when I wrote in. Since he's seen what I wrote, it's been an almost non stop argument about what I did seven years ago.

Obviously, he's not over it. Here's what he has said, because he claims I will get no decent or relavent advice until I do. The following is what he would like me to add in order to get a valid response from anyone. I told him he was welcome to start his own thread somewhere so that he could have his own feedback, but here goes anyway.

....No matter what I say, to him he feels like I did not love him when I flirted. That it was not possible to have heard his heartfelt pleas not to communicate and flirt w the guy. That if he had not been there to "stop" me from giving the guy a ride home, that I would have slept with him that night, and the only reason I didn't is because he "stopped" me. That I am cold hearted and have never "admitted What I did " until these past few days. That unless I admitted that not only did I know that i was flirting, but at no point can you flirt with someone without wanting to have sex with them, none of my prior apologies counted over the past years. That I poisoned our relationship way back then and must like to fight about it. That I did not love him when I flirted, or I wouldn't have ignored his request not to. He also wanted me to include that he begged and cried to me before the second night not to cross any lines or be alone with the guy, and I tried my hardest to ignore and break that request. That because of what I did, the entire rest of our relationship has suffered and I bear the responsibility of all of our fights related to this subject for the next 7 years. That he sat there and saw what happened, so therefore I can't deny any of what he says. He knows the look in my eye I had, and that look means one thing.... that I want to have sex w someone. That I am worse because I denied consciously doing anything to him. That me saying I loved him back then was unfair and a lie, because obviously I didn't, even if "somewhere along the way" I did actually start loving him. That me trying to explain that I didn't really know I was flirting at the time i was doing it is and always has been a lie, and that regardless of if i have said i was wrong for wbat i did, or admitted that although I can see what I did was wrong now (or 5 years ago) , those apologies are worthless until I apologize (d) for knowingly stabbing him in his heart the second night and trying to sneak off and have sex w the guy the second night, none of the apologies count.

So my next question is, since this is obviously how he feels about what I did, let's add in this post with my original and see if that makes any difference in anyone's reactions. Since I posted my reality, here's his reality of the original sin that has laden our entire relationship with a sense of mistrust and how he feels he was the victim all along -which may have influenced his decision to sleep with another woman, lie about it, continue to be friends w the girl and interact with her on a weekly or monthly basis for years. Becausr he feels like any advice I read or response is just another "lie" at this point.

One other thing. I told him I thought it was best for us to spend some time not living in the same house again. This time, it's been turned around on me that I am either abandoning him or kicking him out of his own house . That it would not help our relationship or business for me to leave, regardless of if i still help w the business project we are working on still. That the havoc I am wreaking is a detriment to him doing his part of the job (business wise) and that I said that I would help and do this project together, even once I found our about his cheating, so I should basically keep.my mouth shut until the project is finished and help him, because otherwise, he will probably screw things up because he will be too busy worrying about me to focus or complete his part of the project. He was supposed to leave Nd not return until he sought out medical help for his outbursts, which he did not do. He returned home the night he confessed (which was the same day he agreed to get help for his violent temper), without spending one night alone. He has not sought out help for it past asking a friend who told him she saw a Dr nearby but couldn't remember the name for him to make an appointment. He hasn't looked up any counselors, even online ones to see about the anger issues, which was my reason for asking him to leave.

Melanie, his input makes no difference to me whatsoever.

He says if he had not "stopped" you, you would have slept with someone else. He has no way of knowing that or proving it to be true. He cannot logically fabricate your hypothetical behavior in a hypothetical situation, and then hold it against you as if it is real. That is completely unreasonable and ridiculous.

The cold, hard, concrete fact is that you were never unfaithful to him. You never slept with another man while you were with him. However, he has slept with another woman.

Period, dot, end of sentence.

It's another attempt at blameshifting on his part since apparently his first round of it hasn't worked (bravo to you for that).

He's being ridiculous. He's continuing to try to justify his affair.

Again: It's not your fault. You bear no responsibility whatsoever for the choice he made. You did absolutely nothing to cause this.

DO NOT ACCEPT ANY KIND OF BLAME OR RESPONSIBILITY FROM HIM FOR HIS CHEATING - either internally or in conversation with him.

Stay strong, Melanie.

[This message edited by OneLittleVictory at 11:57 AM, December 29th (Friday)]

One other thing. I told him I thought it was best for us to spend some time not living in the same house again. This time, it's been turned around on me that I am either abandoning him or kicking him out of his own house . That it would not help our relationship or business for me to leave, regardless of if i still help w the business project we are working on still. That the havoc I am wreaking is a detriment to him doing his part of the job (business wise) and that I said that I would help and do this project together, even once I found our about his cheating, so I should basically keep.my mouth shut until the project is finished and help him, because otherwise, he will probably screw things up because he will be too busy worrying about me to focus or complete his part of the project. He was supposed to leave Nd not return until he sought out medical help for his outbursts, which he did not do. He returned home the night he confessed (which was the same day he agreed to get help for his violent temper), without spending one night alone. He has not sought out help for it past asking a friend who told him she saw a Dr nearby but couldn't remember the name for him to make an appointment. He hasn't looked up any counselors, even online ones to see about the anger issues, which was my reason for asking him to leave.

If all this stuff is true, he should have thought about it before he cheated. It's his problem now, not yours. You helping and doing things for him was predicated on the notion that he was faithful partner to you. He hasn't been. So you are not obligated to him.

Cheaters are very good at manipulating and guilt-tripping. My wife was the same. We have to learn not to fall for it.

Plow ahead.

So my next question is, since this is obviously how he feels about what I did

Actually, it's NOT obvious this is how he feels about your 'flirtation.' It's obvious it's what he's using to manipulate you.

Please don't permit him to invade your safe space on SI. Now that he's aware you're here, you've lost your anonymity. That's okay IF he (a) creates his OWN account in order to convey his thoughts; it's NOT your job to do that for him, and (b) you can come to an agreement (to which he will honestly adhere) regarding reading one another's posts.

Inviting my ex to SI was horrendous, and caused me more pain than I can begin to describe. He was still cheating (and I'd consider that, given the degree of blame shifting your WS has going on, he might be, too), and took my posts back to OW. She'd put bugs in his ear about what I'd posted, and between the two of them, they were alternately highly entertained by, or using my own words to harm me.

You can't unring the bell-but you CAN protect yourself from an unremorseful WS, and that's what you have on your hands. One way you can do this is to upgrade your membership so that you can change your screen name, and then be cautious about the degree of personal info revealed that might give you away.

Sure, sharing your feelings with your partner is ideal---and ultimately, the aim, if you are to reconcile, is to return to that. BUT, this is not the time to share everything with your WS. You are working through things he's not yet willing to own.

Your "flirtation" is a distraction that is preventing him from owning his own actions. And he's perseverating on it so exclusively that it makes me wonder whether there is more to his story than you know. (It's actually pretty rare that BSs learn the full extent of infidelity soon out of the gate; there are some WSs who are immediately remorseful and empathetic and DO provide all that is required--but they are the exception.)

I do NOT mean to give the impression that reconciliation is not possible. It is. But you want to get OUT of infidelity. Your marriage was built on a faulty foundation, so you have to start there--by building a NEW foundation, then a new marriage. It can be done, but it requires TWO partners 100% committed to the process. It's almost impossible for a BS to be fully committed, early in the game; the WS is therefore required to do the heavy lifting for a while. Yours, instead, has you writing HIS complaints for him. That isn't good.

WHEN he finds genuine empathy and remorse (which can be facilitated by IC.)

You've been married a VERY short time. I know, you were together for a long time prior. (I was, too---and I was married for almost 25 years before we separated; please don't make the mistaken assumption that you invariably KNOW this person, just based on time. People can conceal who they really are for long, long periods of time. My ex's mask slipped with another dday---and he decided it wasn't worth putting back on for me (but journals found during a recent move make very clear it WAS a mask, and that for YEARS he had nothing resembling positive feeling for me--despite an Oscar-worthy performance), and made my life hell from that point on---though in retrospect, it was bad all along; I'd simply been foolishly determined to see it another way. I didn't know better.

If you're not in IC, I'd strongly recommend finding one who specializes in trauma. I chose one with a doctorate, expert in how trauma changes brain activity, and skilled in treatment modalities to calm the storm in the brain. Talking is great--and we did plenty of that, too. But far more useful to me were strategies to cope with the trauma in ways that actually altered the way my brain processes. She used things like biofeedback, neurofeedback, and EMDR. They were enormously helpful. The talking we did was enormously empowering. It's WELL worth the effort to find the RIGHT IC, even if it takes a few tries. Therapy doesn't have to be a years-long process, either; in the right hands, you can learn important tools that will serve you well in pretty short order.

Until and unless your husband finds genuine empathy and remorse, both of which he clearly lacks currently, I would stay FAR AWAY from a marriage counselor's office. There is nothing to work with, if he is shifting blame from his double betrayal** to you talking with another man at a party you both attended.

(** As an aside: does your mutual friend know your husband slept with his girlfriend? He needs to. If your husband and he are still friends, he is being lied to, by omission, daily--just as you were. He deserves the information necessary to make informed decisions about his life/friendships/relationship, if he's still with the same woman. Please find the courage to let him know. Even if the friendship has ended, the man may have niggling doubts and concerns, and have been gaslighted as you have been/are being gaslighted. He deserves to know that his perceptions are not those of a "crazy" man, but that he was, indeed, betrayed. JUST LIKE YOU WERE.)

If you're not willing --or, really, ABLE, quite yet---to see your husband's blame shifting as the HUGE HUGE HUGE red flag it really is (to me it suggests there is FAR more to his infidelity story than you know), at least protect yourself. The most important way to do this, IMO, at this stage, is to ensure you do not add a baby to the mix. Be sure to consistently use reliable birth control---birth control that does NOT rely on your husband.

And please--tell your husband that if he wants to communicate with SI, he can create his own account and do so that way. You are not his mouthpiece. He is forcing you to own something that exists in HIS mind. That is not to say he is not hurt---but he needs to address that himself, and to get responses meant for HIM. He has placed you in an untenable position with this latest manipulation.

I won't say, "Dump his ass." I will say that you are in the place, in marriage, that is supposed to be the most charmed. You're supposed to be in the honeymoon period. I didn't get one of those, either. I wish I'd listened to my gut before I was staring down the barrel of my 25th anniversary. While I'm grateful for my kids, I am of the belief that their souls were meant to be with me, and would have been, one way or another. I didn't need an abusive man willing to make me doubt my sanity (ultimately taking it from me, for a time, actually)---I needed a partner who LOVED me.

I don't think your husband knows what that means, actually. That's for him to explore in IC on his own. It's not your problem to solve.

Take care of yourself. If he shows himself to be a worthy partner, THEN you can work on the marriage. He has his work cut out for him. The successful waywards on SI would help him tremendously. But he'll have to speak for himself. (It breaks my heart you felt you had to provide his warped blame shifting perspective for him on YOUR protected forum. One day, hopefully soon, he may be able to see how very selfish it was for him to even ask that of you. That he does not now see that is..well, evidence of who he is, right now. What is HE willing to do to change?)

edited for clarity

[This message edited by solus sto at 1:32 PM, December 29th (Friday)]