SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My thought process is similar to another poster. Actually, it was my exact train of thought and the reason I asked. Lack of female friendships and crossing sexually with lifelong best friend.

There are adult women who are mean. And there are nice adult women. Women who like to talk about cooking, books, and so forth. Not all women want to sit around and gossip.

I have friends from all social circles. I don’t like gossiping about my friends. There are other women like me. We go to lunch. Talk about kids, exercise, clothes, school stuff.

Frankly, people want to talk about themselves. :)

It’s unfair to group adult women together based on your childhood experiences. Or lack of experience.

Now that your son is older. Those types of things don’t come up in friendships. It is very different with young children and young mothers who are trying to navigate “best” parenting practices. My kids are 14, 11, 9. None of my friends come from their friendships or play dates now. It’s women I connect with. Example. Painting class, exercise class. I NEVER ask bibe study groups. Too much gossiping.

Women can sense confidence. Insecurity does attract “bad” or “unfulfilling” friendships.

I’m genuinely confused. I wasn’t implying that all adult women are mean or gossipy. I was just stating that they don’t seem to like me, just like some people don’t like chocolate or oranges. It wasn’t a judgment call on them for not feeling drawn to me. I don’t hate women or anything like that. I’m a woman. :)

I can’t force people to like me. Actually, since I already figure they won’t, I don’t go into situations where I have to deal with others with any expectations. That alleviates any potential pressure.

With regard to confidence, I can agree that perhaps people can sense lack of confidence. Social settings certainly do not evoke feelings of confidence in me; they make me anxious. I prefer just to blend in unseen because it’s easier. Safer. I don’t want to call attention to myself whether it’s positive or negative attention. When I used to get accolades at work I would redirect the attention to my staff and say that we were a team and my success was their success. If I ever got flowers or a gift card I would share it with my employees. If people aren’t jealous of you they’re less likely to hate you even if they don’t necessarily like you...

I

BTW, I’m not trying to come off as dismissive of what is being stated or combative. I’m truly just confused and trying to understand.

My IC has mentioned a few times that I should do one or more sessions of IC with my mother. I wonder if it might have anything to do with this. The mother/daughter/woman thing. Idk.

Is it perceived as strange/uncommon/problematic for a woman to have close friendships with men?

I am not implying you hate women. To me it’s not okay to say “some people don’t like chocolate or oranges”. Just like people don’t like me.

In your whole life women do not like you?

The only women, women do not like are those with better hair.

Haha. Just a joke!

I find this very sad. “Women do not like me”. Every single person on this planet can attract friends.

I do think not being able to contect with women is an issue. That statement is a self esteem issue.

My guess is because you have such deep rooted feelings about this...you project this and come off as cold and stand offish.

Women do connect with you. You have many women who connect with you through your writing.

Your female friendships do not need to be deep. Can you compliment someone? You are a great cook. Why couldn’t you invite ladies over and cook?

Do you have sister in laws? What is your relationship like with them?

[This message edited by Iwantmyglasses at 5:11 PM, March 20th (Tuesday)]

Iwantmyglasses! That is a great idea! I LOVE cooking and it sets me at ease when I do things with my hands so I probably won’t be as awkward. Maybe if I can build up the courage I can see if someone from the new church we have been visiting might be a good candidate. We still don’t know the people there very well because we have only been attending a short while, but they seem nice.

Or maybe one of the other parent volunteers at my son’s school. Now that I’m not working any longer it has allowed me the opportunity to get a lot more involved with my son’s school than I used to be and that’s something I always wanted to be able to do. Perhaps one of the other moms who volunteer with me sometimes might be a candidate.

It’s definitely possible that my assumption that I’m not going to be liked might manifest itself and I might come off as standoffish and unfriendly. That could possibly explain, at least partially, why it has been easier for me to interact with female clients at my old job - because I wasn’t viewing it as socializing, but as part of my work and ministry, so I felt more at ease and in control in the situations, and probably radiated more confidence.

My sister in laws (I have six! Hubby has a big family, lol) are nice, but I’m not really close to any of them. We’re kind of distant and politely awkward with one another. Our kids get along great though. My son LOVES his cousins so much. My brother is unmarried and doesn’t have any kids, and there’s only the two of us and my mom, so my husband’s big family probably feels like a big party to my son. For me it’s overwhelming. But I have never gotten the sense that any of my sister in laws harbor ill will toward me. We just don’t really know what to say to one another. They seem like they are closer to one another than they are to me, but that might not actually be the case; it’s just speculation.

I used to wish that my brother would get married because I was certain whomever he chose would hopefully become an instant friend of mine since he and I are so alike. Just like my husband and my brother are good friends. But my brother will probably be single forever as much as he works; I don’t see when he’d ever meet anyone.

Vin, I just realized my reply to you from earlier didn’t post! Thank you so much for your post. I think you’re right that God has definitely carried us through this situation, and I am going to definitely take your advice to heart about remaining strong in my faith and being certain to continue to entrust my family in God’s hands.

Thinking back on some of your previous posts I realize that you have a great deal of insight. You cautioned that the sex issue would be a huge hurdle early on, and you also mentioned that we should be careful of the AP. When he resurfaced (the AP), I couldn’t have been more shocked. I guess I really thought he had gotten the hint that he is not welcome. I wish I had remembered your warnings...we wouldn’t have been so caught off guard otherwise.

Cephastion, I’m definitely listening. I don’t want to inadvertently rugsweep by not digging deep enough with regard to the situation with the AP beyond just the day the A occurred. You make a valid point that in order to help myself and my family I am going to have to explore things further even though on the surface the thought of doing so makes me feel like it’s “giving” the AP more of me and he already got more than he should have. But the journey is for ME, not for him, and it will benefit my family.

The whole thing scares me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but even to this day, over a year later, I just don’t get how/why it happened. I mean, I know technically “how” but I don’t understand my actions. I have (not recently, but since D Day) tried to piece together if there were suppressed feelings for the AP. For the life of me, I can’t find/recognize/see any - not saying there weren’t any, but I guess they must have been buried deep, like core of the Earth deep!

I don’t recall ever fantasizing about him or dreaming about him or thinking about him in a romantic way. He was “my person” though. We were close. Maybe too close. I talked to him about everything. Sometimes if there was good news, like a positive update at work ot something funny or cute my son did, I might call or text him first, and then my husband second. Not always. But definitely sometimes, which I realize now is WAY wrong but didn’t see that way then. He was just a friend...I didn’t think his gender was of significance. But there has got to be more to this. Yes, he was (is?) a good looking guy, but that was just coincidental IMO as we were lifelong friends. He could have just as easily been physically unattractive as appearance is not a criterion for friendship to me.

I laughed at what you mentioned about what my husband did. I’m typically not an advocate for violence, but yes, my husband got the AP good. He hit the AP so hard that he caused an orbital fracture and a nose fracture! He said the AP got some hits in too, but my husband was filled with sheer rage and definitely “won” the fight. What’s crazy is the AP is several inches taller than my husband, like half a foot taller, and more muscular. If someone was going to place a bet they would not have guessed my husband would have been the one to cause the most damage!

Now, my husband is muscular too (though in a lean, athletic way, not like a body builder way). He grew up very scrawny and had a complex about it, so he got really heavy into fitness in his late teens/early twenties and now he’s a total “gym rat.” The AP runs and lifts too, but not consistently; his muscle tone is more genetic whereas my husband’s is pure hard work and my husband is consistent about his exercise regimen. He looks the part (athletic), but my husband LIVES the part...

Also, I’m sorry about your son. I would be devastated if what I have done caused my baby to be estranged from me. He has already been impacted too much by this. The other day in fact he made me promise on “Scout’s honor” that I would “never move away from me and Dad ever again.” (He’s not even a Scout...but I promised anyway.)

Hi ASoCalledLife, I'm just catching up on this thread now. So happy for you and your family that you are all back together again.

Hi, ASCL --

Beware: first of two long replies coming your way!

I’m not familiar with either of those movies (shows? Books?), so I don’t really understand the reference.

Friendship-Building Hint: if you don't understand the references, you should look them up. Learning more might give you a chance to find a new geekdom while also connecting with a potential new friend. (See what I did there?) This is one way to connect with new friends, whereas saying you don't know what someone is talking about only serves to shut down that avenue of conversation. The next time someone mentions something to you that you aren't familiar with or are maybe not incredibly into, why don't you ask them to tell you more about it or look into yourself?

But I don’t have any illusions that there aren’t other people in the world who feel different from other people.

I think everyone has moments, maybe even several, where they don’t feel like they are a part of things. But for me that hasn’t been a momentary thing.

Am I right in thinking that you are saying feeling different is only a momentary thing for most other people? If so, why?

Not fitting in has been a constant theme throughout my life. It isn’t something that makes me feel self-pity or sadness. It’s just the way it is.

Have you ever heard of core beliefs? You should definitely dig deeper into that.

People on the autism spectrum are estimated to be approximately 1-2% of the population. So I’m not imagining the fact that I am different in that regard. And growing up, it was viewed as an anomaly to be Aspie AND female (it’s less so now).

Do you realize that, without knowing anything about my background or life experiences, you are explaining this to me as I would have no way of understanding or relating to you, or even experiencing a similar feeling of difference myself in my own life? You have come into our exchange assuming that you are speaking to someone who can't relate, without ever making the effort to find common ground. Do you ever feel curious about other people, their own backgrounds and lives and internal worlds? If so, how do you express that?

It is hard to know what to say, what to do. Small talk literally makes me break out in a sweat and nervously flap my hands, even now. It is scary and uncomfortable.

I know many people who hate small talk, and find it stressful and anxiety-producing. However, you do need to engage in some level of small talk in order to build familiarity and trust, so that potential new friends can feel comfortable sharing their deeper thoughts with you. (Some people feel the same way about deep, intense convos that you feel about small talk.) So, what can you do to make this less problematic for yourself in order to build new connections?

I have “special interests” that many people don’t seem to share. I would very much like for someone to find me interesting and not weird; that seems easiest when people are kept at a distance. If this the same thing for others, they must be really good at masking it - and maybe they are.

I think you would honestly be shocked by how common this feeling is for a great many people, but the really key thing in what you've just shared is that you admitted to choosing to keep people at a distance so you don't risk being perceived as weird. Why is that? What's so scary about that for you? Why is being perceived as weird such a deterrent to interaction? What do you think will happen if you are, indeed, weird? What's the worst case scenario there? What would you think if I told you that there are many people in the world who are largely perceived as odd by their communities and coworkers, yet they continue to make friendships and have jobs and raise families...and do so very happily? What does being weird mean to you?

Maybe if I had been able to finish college I would have found “my people” and developed some friends.

Possibly. However, many people find it hard to regularly maintain close friendships and develop new ones as their responsibilities grow and their free time becomes limited.

I’m not unwilling to explore whatever it might be about me that repulses people. Or how to better engage with people. I am opento changing, to understanding, to growing. It seems almost like a lost cause sometimes as someone with a perpetual case of foot-in-mouth disease.

I'm going to be pretty direct here with you: I think what you should really be exploring is why you equate being perceived as odd as being necessarily repulsive. Also, why you seem to think sometimes saying or doing things that others don't exactly relate to would completely negate the possibility of building a relationship. Do you think that other people don't ever have odd moments with their friends, or feel that their friends are a bit weird? What's going on there in your thoughts?

However, I cannot pretend that my reality hasn’t been what it has been. That would be dishonest and wouldn’t make any sense.

That would only be dishonest if your perceptions and the assumptions/information they are founded on are 100% correct...including your likely core belief that you are inherently different and other people will find that difference to be off-putting and repulsive. What doesn't make any sense is to be so confident in assigning YOUR meanings and YOUR implications to so many other people, when you also admit that you don't have very much experience with socializing and building friendships while also being neurodivergent. Knowing this, does it not make sense to you that your interpretation may not be the most accurate read when it comes to what other people are thinking and perceiving?

(To clarify: I have absolutely no doubt that this is YOUR truth, but is it necessarily also THEIR truth?)

Reponse #2 = engaged. :) Please note that I am just giving you food for thought, and you should not feel compelled to answer and/or share your responses to every statement. In fact, some of these might best be kept as private ruminations, unless you feel like it would be beneficial to share your thoughts and reactions.

Because I didn’t really learn whatever it is you’re supposed to learn as a girl from your mother in terms of womanhood, socializing, communication, etc, so maybe I didn’t give a good first impression to people.

I think there's definitely a lot to explore there, including why you think this knowledge is something you would have learned from your mother.

Do you think that is how other people learn those things? What about individuals without mothers?

And, as I think you already know, there are subgroups upon subgroups upon subgroups in any social setting...so what might be considered approciate social behavior for the conservative, predominantly white girls in your homeschooling group could be very different from a group of predominantly liberal, multiethnic girls in another homeschooling group. Same thing for the boys. Gender and race are only two of a great many possible considerations that shape behavior norms and expectations within a social group.

Even here on SI when I first started posting I turned a lot of the women off. I’m not very tactful.

I'm going to stop you right there and challenge you about that. I've read all of your posts since you first joined as you posted, and just went back and looked through some of the earliest threads linked to your profile to see if "the women" were indeed the ones responding in ways that could be interpreted as strongly opinionated and/or heated. Instead, I noticed a lot of male members commenting in that manner. In fact, I also noticed several times that "the women" were toning down their statements by prefacing them with phrases like "very gently" or some such similar diffusion. So, considering this factual evidence, why do you feel that you were turning "the women" off? What about the men? Why are they not registering with you in the same way "the women" are making an impression? What's going on there?

The female clients at my old job always liked me, though. And seemed to respect me too. But maybe it wasn’t real. Maybe it was just because I was an authority figure. But it seemed real.

Why are you wondering if that wasn't real? I don't see you questioning your relationships with men in the same way you question your relationships with women. Why is that?

I can’t force people to like me. Actually, since I already figure they won’t, I don’t go into situations where I have to deal with others with any expectations.

Are you really, though? Isn't assuming that people probably won't like you an expectation?

If people aren’t jealous of you they’re less likely to hate you even if they don’t necessarily like you...

...really? Where did you first learn that from? There's a lot to unpack here regarding healthy pride, reasonable humility, realistic self-esteem, and toxic hubris. Also, once again: healthy boundaries. How much are you willing to limit/restrict/harm yourself to appease others? Why are they so important?

My IC has mentioned a few times that I should do one or more sessions of IC with my mother. I wonder if it might have anything to do with this. The mother/daughter/woman thing. Idk.

Listen to your IC.

Is it perceived as strange/uncommon/problematic for a woman to have close friendships with men?

Not at all, although I know there are some members of this site who feel that men and women can never be friends. I find that sentiment pretty awkward on many levels, not to mention unrealistically heteronormative.

But. (And I say this to you as someone who has both a male and female best friend, both of whom I have known and had incredibly close friendships with for VERY many years.) The dynamic between you and your friend-turned-AP does not sound like a very healthy friendship at all, including in some of the ways you've already realized and detailed on here but in others that I don't think you've yet come to understand. I don't want to ask the questions and speak the answers that you need to be pursuing yourself to reach fuller understanding, but I will say this to get you started out: how were you able to have only one friend for such a long period of time? Did your friend-turned-AP not have other friends himself? Did he not introduce you to other people, or encourage you to hang out with his other friends (assuming he did in fact socialize elsewhere?) Why did he feel comfortable monopolizing pretty much the entirety of your friendship space for such a long time?

The whole thing scares me. I know it sounds ridiculous, but even to this day, over a year later, I just don’t get how/why it happened. I mean, I know technically “how” but I don’t understand my actions. I have (not recently, but since D Day) tried to piece together if there were suppressed feelings for the AP. For the life of me, I can’t find/recognize/see any - not saying there weren’t any, but I guess they must have been buried deep, like core of the Earth deep!

...or if there was always some boundary-crossing elements to your predominantly straight male centric friendships that you normalized over the years, so not quite right behaviors did not set off the kinds of red flags they probably should have...

...and if you had no other real friendships by which to form a healthy comparison...

...or if you have never had a lasting friendship that was devoid of romantic/sexual undertones, and perhaps don't know what deeply connection without those kinds of vibes should feel like...

...just some possibilities.

I don’t recall ever fantasizing about him or dreaming about him or thinking about him in a romantic way. He was “my person” though.

I didn’t think his gender was of significance. But there has got to be more to this. Yes, he was (is?) a good looking guy, but that was just coincidental IMO as we were lifelong friends. He could have just as easily been physically unattractive as appearance is not a criterion for friendship to me.

I think you are partially right, in that his gender wasn't of real significance. In fact, this could just as easily have been a female friend or even someone who doesn't fit into the gender binary...given certain criteria. I think you need to look back on your friendship with this man and examine it honestly, unflinchingly, and accurately.

I can understand not wanting to let him occupy any mental space, but you really need to untangle what happened to make crossing the line not seem like crossing the line. There's a big issue here regarding healthy boundaries and appropriate friendships that you do need to sort out to be safe, not only for your family but also for yourself.

[This message edited by Rasputina at 6:48 PM, March 21st (Wednesday)]

I do not have Asperger’s but an in-law has a relative with it so I have been around enough to tell those of you trying to help “fix” ASCL that you don’t fix it. That is how her brain is designed.

She feels love, she feels despair, she feels hope.

ASCL do you get jokes? Do you get sarcasm? That is what I mean about nuance of speech. So signals that we verbally and nonverbally send each other are often lost to someone with Asperger’s. In no way am I trying to say this is you. I am just saying that when you are more comfortable with men it is probably because you like their interests. I love decorating but get bored doing mundane housework. Routine drives me crazy. I have friends who have houses that gleam and mine is dusty. That is me. Good old ADHD me. This is ASCL. Who is getting her life back. Yay!!!

I am also curious to know if your mother had friends?. What about your father? Did they invite couples over for cocktails/ dinner: BBQ

My FIL doesn’t know how to social at all. My husbands family is sooo different than mine socially. My FIL has zero friends. Plenty of people liked him. He never did anything to cultivate those relationships. Nothing. And if he does talk to you. It will be about his subjects. Nothing else.

Anyway, we aren’t recommending you try to be the most popular girl ever. I am asking if you would be interested in having a true friend that is a girl.

To me these things do go hand and hand in healing. Friends help so much in life. Women friends have a completely different viewpoint into life hardships. One, I can hug my female friends or do their hair without wanting to have sex with them. :).

I’ve moved so much in life. I’ve discovered some people I connect with at first aren’t people I want to talk to all the time. I certainly don’t tell people “secrets” I am very picky about what I share and with whom. My friendships are very light.

If you do decide to make friends. Please keep in mind, the first time you reach out...it may not make a friend.

Cooley2here --

There's nothing to fix because neurodivergence is not brokenness. However, you are incorrect when you say that this is just how her mind works; if that were true, there would be no way for anyone experiencing neurodivergence, traumatic brain injury, or any other such condition to learn adaptive behaviors while restructuring thinking processes that are not serving them very well. (Nor anyone else struggling to reshape their mental landscape, for that matter, which would entirely defeat the Reconciliation portion of this site.)

There actually are treatments that target these areas, including Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA), Treatment and Education of Autistic and Related Communication Handicapped Children (TEACCH), social skills training, occupational and physical therapies, and sensory integration. This site is actually a fantastic resource for social skills training, on top of everything else it provides.

If you are in close contact with an individual who is neurodivergent, I would recommend that you look further into these possibilities so that you can continue to be a knowledgeable source of support and encouragement.

Thank you for your posts HardenMyHeart, Rasputina, Cooley2Here, and Iwantmyglasses. I have read your posts. Sorry for this brief response; I haven’t been on SI much today, but I will address your posts, maybe tomorrow. Feel overwhelmed and inadequate today.

My husband learned from his attorney that the AP declined to press charges against my husband following the assault. That should have been good news. But apparently the DA assigned to this case is pursuing the charges anyway. Who does that? Ugh.

My husband said that his attorney is pretty confident he can plea bargain and that worse case scenario they’re misdemeanor charges. The attorney seems confident and doesn’t appear to be even the slightest bit worried. So it’s probably not *technically* a big deal, but for my husband, who has never been in any legal trouble of any type in his entire life, it’s demoralizing.

He’s frustrated and also disappointed in himself, and as a result he has been largely non-communicative and kind of tense all evening. Earlier tonight I offered him a foot, back, or shoulder rub and he just said he was going to go for a run to clear his head.

There’s a trail nearby and it’s not that it’s abnormal for him to go for an evening run (even though weights are more his thing), but I feel like he feels trapped with me being back home and the run might have just been an excuse to get away from me for a little while. Because the legal situation he’s upset about is so connected to the A.

He’s not being mean or anything. I just feel shut out. And want to help him but don’t know how. I’ve only been back home a few days. Not even a week. But I guess the honeymoon is over already.

I find it tragically shocking and yet also horribly symptomatic of where we are at as a culture to have "come so far".

What used to be a socially universally and unanimously understood crime against society, family, and the sanctity of marriage and all that is holy...what used to carry (and still does in some cultures) a death sentence for committing has now become so commonplace and socially and legally acceptable enough to our lovely little world, that we are quite eager and willing to punish the unwitting VICTIMS of the atrocity instead of the virtual terrorists and authors/perpetrators of the crimes.

I don't wish such things upon a repentant, remorseful ex-wayward like yourself, Mrs. Life. Mercy and grace exist for a reason, and Christ came for the sick and the broken, not the whole and the healthy ones. He said so Himself. But it's partly that deterrent and that common understanding that keeps this adultery shit from happening in the first frikkin place.

If all of us thought that we could simply do whatever we FEET like doing without suffering any real consequences or stigma for doing it, then we'd surely all consume and destroy ourselves with our own lusts and selfish coveting and anger and envying in no time in the anarchy and mayhem and chaos that would very quickly run amok.

It seems to me that your AP might have more actual conscience or shame for his part than the actual law enforcement (DA) does concerning right and wrong and justice in general!

How sad that a known Judas would be more sensible than Pilate/Caesar or the legal system that is supposed to be promoting order and security AGAINST molestation and unwarranted assaults upon families and damsels-in-distress (emotionally, at least) without cause.

Maybe they should press charges on you for abandoning your sex slave promotion-position with that Minster-monster you were assaulted by as well.

What would have been death by public stoning of the offender, is now often regarded as a way to rise to the top and be the life of the party or ministry, it seems.

Let the terrorist Barabbas go free! Crucify the innocent Healer-King on Passover instead!

We have come so far from those barbaric, archaic times, haven't we?

Okay...that's my vent.

More to the point of encouraging you and Mr. Life, it is his first time " offense" and because our society is so largely given over to enabling sin and vice of all manner, shape, and size for so incredibly long now, the jails and prisons are typically quite filled to the brim of all manner of lifestyle-offenders who REALLY are quite often a threat to society at large.

As mildly as they often deal with REAL criminals and bad guys, I think that most judges don't want the bad reputation or record of being particularly harsh by treating relatively innocent citizen-victims more harshly than hardened serial sickos.

I do wonder what the misdemeanor charges actually are and what kind of "deal" your attorney is likely to broker from the DA. They usually end up with at least a couple of options and plea deals for y'all to look at choosing from.

In any case, like we've all said on here, it's a marathon, and he's running it to win. I think you are too, but I'm thinking he's just in better "shape" as a marathon runner than you are by comparison. Don't take that as an insult to YOU, but as a compliment towards HIM, and also as a challenge to try to be as awesome as he is so y'all can "run" this marathon TOGETHER, in step without leaving either one in the dust and having to catch up with the one who's got more stamina and vigor in the thing.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 9:24 AM, March 23rd (Friday)]

(This post was edited by me regarding a rather significant time correction regarding Passover this year. It now reflects things more accurately I think.)

I actually have MUCH more to say to you and to try with your why's and stuff too, but in the meantime, I would request that you tell Mr. Life this:

This next upcoming Friday evening...this very next weekend...is Passover. The very story I referred to in my previous post...about Judas, and Barabbas, and the judicial system of that time, and the twisted sense of punishing the innocent, Temple cleansing, Son/King/Groom-to-be for His boldness and confidence and " acting out" while freeing the very one who was a known, real, and documentable threat to society INSTEAD...

ALL of that happened essentially this upcoming Friday and the night before, anniversary-wise. Judas, the arrest, the mock trial, pressing charges against an innocent man...that was ALL last night. The flogging and Pilate "trial", and subsequent crucifixion all happened a week from now according to Jewish calendar times and holidays, as I understand it

And if we are Christians, then it is an honor to be able to identify with Him and share in some part with Him, even though there is no comparison ultimately in terms of holiness, innocence, and voluntary sacrifice per se.

Mr. Life did that for YOU, and himself, and because he loves you and his family and marriage and JUSTICE. If he suffers for that. He is in very good company, I daresay. And the history of this VERY day attests to that FACT.

So, there y'all have it. Even Christ needed help with that cross though. It's just too much sometimes.

(I originally had my weeks/days mixed up and mistakenly thought that Passover was THIS Friday instead of next Friday evening and the Saturday following it. Consequently, I edited this post to reflect the proper dates and times instead of how it was originally worded. I hope my mistake didn't throw anyone off too badly there. Please pardon me if it did. )

[This message edited by Cephastion at 12:26 PM, March 23rd (Friday)]

Cephastion.... That was nicely put.

ASCL

Will this deal mean that your husband will have a record over his name? A deal is a form of admission not so? This will alarm on any application etc... Not sure about the USA ...?

If so... I suspect he is probably very disappointed in himself and very angry with you. More a sense of defeat and perhaps that is why he isn't vocal.

This is very fresh still and the deed will always come back to haunt you in so many ways. But fear not, as Cephastion pointed out so eloquently ...

Things may get worse before they get better... but you are both in it for the long haul. What kind of victory would it be if you had nothing to compete against? You both will learn character building resilience and become better equipped to deal with adversity in other areas of your lives.

when your husband returns... or at some least expected moment.. make him a cup of tea (or shake) with a note on it with something like... " you are the most special man " or something like that... He probably needs some uplifting now.

Thank you for your replies!

Vin, the attorney insists that there are ways to plea bargain so that it will either never be on my husband’s record at all or worst case scenario that it will be removed in a matter of months or a few short years. He says it might be possible that all my husband will have to do is pay a fine. It all depends on how things go in court (and we might be able to avoid court if he can negotiate with the assistant district attorney who is prosecuting the case). The court date is next month.

But even though the attorney considers it a minor, forgettable issue, my husband is personally affected because he is a man who prides himself on being a law abiding individual. He was the first in his family to be born in the US, so he is his family line’s first American citizen. And being a father to a son who is part black and wanting to be a good role model to him since there is so much unfair negativity and stereotypes about black males in American media/cinema/literature/society, it was something my husband could be proud of to be able to know that he had never been in trouble with the law, never had been arrested, never had been to jail, didn’t have a record. Now he cannot say that. Even if it never shows up on his legal record, it is a matter of personal pride that has been affected.

Cephastion, I understand what you mean. I just wish my husband felt that way - that he shouldn’t feel guilt or shame over the legal situation. If I could trade places with him I would, and let it go on my record. 😞

Cooley2Here: Thank you. I don’t have ADHD because at the time I was diagnosed with Asperger’s (several years later than my brother), the DSM-IV did not allow concurrent diagnoses of ADHD and any autism spectrum disorders, but that has since been revised. But in some ways I consider the two diagnoses to be related in a few ways, almost like “cousin” diagnoses.

Iwantmyglasses, I hope I can find some friendships similar to those you’ve described.

Rasputina, thank you for your thoughtful posts and I do plan to respond at length in the near future. I like the way that you write and also the way you explain your points.

I do want to very quickly respond to a few of the remarks, but will do them more justice later.

The reason I didn’t look up the references I was unfamiliar with that you mentioned in the earlier posts is because I felt to be unfamiliar, quickly look them up to get a quick synopsis of what you were talking abot, and then to respond as if I actually had previous knowledge of that topic would be dishonest. I thought it would be more forthright to admit I didn’t get it. But I can see what you mean about it appearing that I am disinterested when I do that to others.

With regard to my female clients (both cis and trans), the reason I wondered if their comfort level with me might not be authentic is less because they are female and more because I was in a position of authority over them. I was “the boss” and these were people who had been previously taken advantage of by others who had authority over them (pimps, traffickers, etc). As such, it can be hard to know how much of their behavior was truly comfort with me and how much was a survival mechanism in which you don’t rock the boat with people in charge - even though I tried to be very hands on and not act like some distant, unapproachable demagogue.

With my male clients it was different. Most of them were young boys (teens) who were gay, bi, pan, etc and they had experienced more trauma from other males in their profession (sex work) than from females. As a result, we typically tried to pair them with male case managers and male social workers when we could, to try to provide them with positive male role models who were NOT going to hurt or use them. So I usually had less deep interaction with them than with the female clients.

With regard to me being being concerned about being perceived as by others weird, I will elaborate more later, but it’s not as much about me being uncomfortable with my weirdness than my fear of what others do to those who are different. My brother and I were groomed and molested by a respite provider in our own home because we were an easy target due to our differences. I was bullied - beat up and teased - in school because I was different. I was ostracized in homeschooling groups because I was different. I often wonder if my boss targeted me because I was different.

People get taken advantage of and killed every day for being different; so many of my former clients were easy targets for manipulation because they were neurodivergent, or because they were gender minorities (trans, nonbinary, fluid), or because they were immigrants.

I don’t look down on myself for being different. The person I love most in the world, my father, was very unique and different from others. He always told my brother and I to be proud to fly our “freak flags.” My son is different (disabled, multiracial) and I raise him to be proud of himself for who God made him to be. It is not the difference that I worry about but how people mistreat you for being different. It makes you vulnerable and if you keep people at a distance they can’t attack your figurative Achilles heel.

Lastly, although you challenged me about my interaction with women on SI, I’m going to kindly challenge back. I don’t think the most recent posts linked to my profile are a good sample from which to draw from to see my point. I do not feel that I currently have a contentious relationship with anyone, male or female, on SI. And I haven’t for a while. But I very much did in the beginning (summertime). Those threads have all dropped off. If you were to review them I did indeed have some major issues with several women on SI. The mods even got involved on a few occasions. I could name at least three of them right now off the top of my head. For the most part we’ve since made peace and I actually have a HUGE amount of respect for each and every one of the women I clashed with here. But that doesn’t change the fact that when I first posted here, literally I think my third SI post, a war pretty much went down. And it was almost all women who were upset with me for my posts, not a lot of men.

In order to address your other remarks, I’m going to need more time. And I thank you for these thought provoking questions.

Mrs. Life, I wonder if you could do me (and yourself and husband) a bit of a favor, assuming that you haven't already done this already...

Would you mind reading my posts about him and the so -called (no pun intended there with your username and all) "crime" of attacking your AP?

Christ did in fact cleanse the Temple at one point when "zeal for His house consumed Him" (prophesied in Psalms 69:9), and it was being profaned right in front of Him every year and every festival that He was alive to see it.

CJB John 2:13-22... 13 It was almost time for the festival of Pesach in Y’hudah, so Yeshua went up to Yerushalayim. 14 In the Temple grounds he found those who were selling cattle, sheep and pigeons, and others who were sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 He made a whip from cords and drove them all out of the Temple grounds, the sheep and cattle as well. He knocked over the money-changers’ tables, scattering their coins; 16 and to the pigeon-sellers he said, “Get these things out of here! How dare you turn my Father’s house into a market?” 17 (His talmidim later recalled that the Tanakh says, “Zeal for your house will devour me.” )[b] 18 So the Judeans confronted him by asking him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove you have the right to do all this?” 19 Yeshua answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.” 20 The Judeans said, “It took 46 years to build this Temple, and you’re going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the “temple” he had spoken of was his body. 22 Therefore, when he was raised from the dead, his talmidim remembered that he had said this, and they trusted in the Tanakh and in what Yeshua had said.

Additionally, WE and our bodies are in fact called the temple of the Holy Spirit and of God Himself

(CJB I Cor. 6:12-20)...12 You say, “For me, everything is permitted”? Maybe, but not everything is helpful. “For me, everything is permitted”? Maybe, but as far as I am concerned, I am not going to let anything gain control over me. 13 “Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food”? Maybe, but God will put an end to both of them. Anyhow, the body is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. 14 God raised up the Lord, and he will raise us up too by his power.

15 Don’t you know that your bodies are parts of the Messiah? So, am I to take parts of the Messiah and make them parts of a prostitute? Heaven forbid! 16 Don’t you know that a man who joins himself to a prostitute becomes physically one with her? For the Tanakh says, “The two will become one flesh”;[a] 17 but the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit. 18 Run from sexual immorality! Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the fornicator sins against his own body. 19 Or don’t you know that your body is a temple for the Ruach HaKodesh who lives inside you, whom you received from God? The fact is, you don’t belong to yourselves; 20 for you were bought at a price. So use your bodies to glorify God.

If he was being assaulted or sexually molested by another man, would it be a CRIME for him to DEFEND himself and protect his honor and purity/monogamy?

HELL NO!

Would it be a crime for him to defend YOU or your son in such a horrible circumstance??? I know that vengeance is not the rule of thumb for a Christian. BELIEVE ME, I have wrestled with that knowledge long and hard. However, Christ's cleansing of the Temple grounds of unauthorized trespassers and solicitors was NOT vengeance and was NOT sin. And He (nor your husband) didn't KILL or even really repay anyone the evil that was done. He merely cleaned house and "communicated" a clear message and "boundary/law" of sorts--which was already well-known before He showed up with homemade whip in hand, incidentally.

A man in not only supposed to protect his own body, but that of his wife and children as well, and by biblical reasoning here, you are as much "his body" as his own is--whether anyone else really agrees with that or not.

Anyway, I just thought that maybe if he heard another man "saying" this to him via you reading it aloud...

I guess I was just thinking THIS: (CJB Rom 10:8-17)

8 What, then, does it say?

“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart.”[b] —

that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, 9 that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered. 10 For with the heart one goes on trusting and thus continues toward righteousness, while with the mouth one keeps on making public acknowledgement and thus continues toward deliverance. 11 For the passage quoted says that everyone who rests his trust on him will not be humiliated.[c] 12 That means that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile — Adonai is the same for everyone, rich toward everyone who calls on him, 13 since everyone who calls on the name of Adonai will be delivered.[d]

14 But how can they call on someone if they haven’t trusted in him? And how can they trust in someone if they haven’t heard about him? And how can they hear about someone if no one is proclaiming him? 15 And how can people proclaim him unless God sends them? — as the Tanakh puts it, “How beautiful are the feet of those announcing good news about good things!”[e]

16 The problem is that they haven’t all paid attention to the Good News and obeyed it. For Yesha‘yahu says,

“Adonai, who has trusted what he has heard from us?”[f]

17 So trust comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through a word proclaimed about the Messiah.

I know this reference it typically used only in the context of "witnessing" to unbelievers. But where it says "Torah" (Mosaic Law) or Tanakh (Scripture) if you kinda substitute "Word" there...as in Scripture--including THIS ONE, in fact...then the meaning is more broadened and applicable to how God and His followers roll. He doesn't just speak or share the "Word" with unbelievers. Quite the contrary. It appears to ME, that it is His very own children/family/people that He does the most law-giving, principle-reminding, sermon-preaching and sharing with, quite frankly.

Anyway, I don't know if you've "shared" my "Word(s)" or posts with Mr. Life in a very direct and word-for-word, verbatim kind of way or not, but here's my official request to you that you do so...with whatever editing and abridgement might be deemed best for ya'll considering what ya'll are dealing with and how very personally and lengthy my posts can be, particularly where ya'll are concerned at least.

I would go back to where the first news came across about the confrontation and the unknowns you were dealing with at that time. I think I sent along some Rocky video clips and a thing or two about whips and Temple cleansings and honor and love and zeal and stuff. (February 10th or on page 11 of this thread I think.)

But whatever ya'll decide there. Just know that it's oftentimes VERY different hearing the exact same stuff coming from another person or phrased in another way or said in a different context. As proof, just think about those verses I sent about God being angry and venting about the size of the penises involved in His wife's adulteries with other AP's. You said yourself that you've read the Bible for 30 years or so and never saw that one. That's also very true for me and my wife as well.

In the meantime, here's a little clip that I like that reminds me of ya'll and the ongoing celebration we're all having for you guys. It's also a Hebrew play on words involving the altered version of your username that you've graciously honored me with by adopting for yourself and your awesome husband (i.e. Mr. and Mrs. LIFE). It's from Fiddler on The Roof and is called "L'Chaim!--To Life!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr8AjT0aD0

[This message edited by Cephastion at 5:41 PM, March 25th (Sunday)]

Good morning Mrs Life

I have said it before, but need to say it again. You are an incredible woman Mrs Life. Through having gotten to know you on this forum, I have grown and softened and changed in ways I did not even know that I needed to change. I am a rather self-confident chap. Possibly to the extent of being an irritant to friends and acquaintances. I have my beliefs, hold them to a fault. I don’t try to force them on others, but I now realise that I do believe that I am superior to anyone that does not hold to mine. You are changing all of that. Broadening my perspective.

I have just come home after a week in heaven. The place? Well, there is no way that I can describe it that will do it justice so I am going to need a bit of help from you on this one. I need you to deploy your best imagination. Think of a cosy croft, set hallway up a towering mountain. A buttress of sheer cliffs behind, verdant indigenous forest surrounding the croft, and the undulation of the hillside in front, falling away to a patchwork of rich farm plantings in the valley. Now once you have done that, let your imagination bring it to life, with rich colours, dainty wild flowers, mushrooms and toadstools and lichens and vines in the forest. Sketch in a few ribbon thin waterfalls in your back yard. Then add into all of that, the fact that, while you are out hiking, fairies come and clean the place, leaving delicious, piping hot meals, waiting for you when you get back. No TV, no WiFi, no cell reception. A fireside. But what truly makes it heaven? The angel that chooses to spend the week with you. Now Mrs Life, I am sure that you will understand that I was not looking forward to coming back to my reality. What made coming back worth it? The smiling faces of 2PP obviously, and then your post of 3/17/2018, which I have just read.

Firstly, I think that no matter how beautiful my week of heaven was, you would rather be where you are now, home, with H and DS, than to live out eternity in the bliss I have just sketched. Reading your good news lifted my spirits like little else has done for nearly 2 years now.

I have a suspicion that my politics and those of Cephastion might be polar opposites on the scale of left and right. I know that our belief systems are just about as far apart, although having said that, they might not be. There is this wonderful young Christian girl at work. The first Christian that I have met that actually draws you to her. I keep teasing her saying, “I am too scared to become too good a friend to you since every time I become a good friend to a Christian, suddenly becomes all about them trying to convert me, and the friendship goes out the door”. She giggles and say that no, she doesn’t need to convert me because I am a Matt 25:35 Christian. Being still closely involved with university exam marking and grading, I thought that that was some form of grading system. You know, above 80 is with distinction. 75 to 80 is an upper second and so on. Below 50 a fail. Then 25 to 35 must mean that you are such a failure that it is not even worth trying with you. I have since been told that it was not quite that.

Despite these differences, I can tell you, I have never been prouder to stand shoulder to shoulder with a comrade, doing duty for a cause, than I have been in the tireless support that Cephastion and I feel for you.

I think I now know why I, as a BH, I have been so drawn you as a WW. Throughout I have had a sense that you are the one WW that has a concept of the massive trauma a WW’s actions inflict on their BH. Reading your words proved this for me. Your description of your H’s reaction on your confession, the way that your words so clearly described his and my “anguish on the floor incident” made me wonder if you had been hovering against my dining room ceiling, watching me writhe in the pain of that final realisation. The realisation of how my WW’s actions spoke of just how little she valued me and her children. I know that you know, how unfair it is that one afternoon of your pleasure, has inflicted even just that evening’s experience, on your husband, but then he has to wake up to it again the next day and live it again, and again, and again. And I feel your remorse. I have never put much store in all this SI fixation about remorse, but now, from you, I think I finally understand. I know that an A is a deal breaker for me, but I think that, if my XWW had shown such remorse for her actions, at least my healing would have been quicker and more complete. And who knows, maybe hers would be too. I wish that I could direct every WW still pining for their AP to this post of yours and yell at them, “look, read, absorb, this is what you and that bastard have done to the man you said you loved more than all!”

I would like to share something that is very personal to me. I am hoping that by sharing it, I can help you to see the prison incident as something positive. Something that will allow your H to puff his chest out in pride and something that will make your DS super proud of his hero dad. Mrs Life, I spent nearly a year in prison. Yip, you heard me right. It is something that I am extremely proud of. How can anyone be proud of time spent in detention? On a recent occasion, my DD and I did a tour that brought my prison experience to life in a vivid, experiential way. She cried when she realised what had been endured but she ended the day with the broadest smile. Never having been prouder of her dad. I was detained for my opposition to a crime against humanity. I stood for what I believed to be true. I see exactly this in your H’s prison experience. He was defending you, his DS and himself, against the perpetrator of the greatest crime against his family. Now you must know that I am the worlds greatest pacifist. Was a conscientious objector. Opposed to violence in any form. But despite all this, I was cheering for you H all the way, and for me, one of the best bits was;

break his nose and orbital socket, and end up in jail.

That was not a sissy fight your H put up in his quest to defend you, your DS and himself from this predator. That was all in.

My heart swells with pride for your H Mrs life. And then swells a little more. He has a capacity to forgive that I can only wish to have had. Keep teaching Mrs Life, and I will try to keep learning.

Thank you.

Cephastion, as my son makes me say, “Scout’s honor!” I will convey the message And can’t wait to check out the link.Your clips and songs always resonate with me!

Ohfor, your getaway sounds amazing! And what makes it even better is being able to share it with someone so special. I’m ao happy for you that you are experiencing something so healthy and real. Such a blessing. And thank you for your kind words and for sharing your story of taking a stand on principle and being imprisoned. I hope when a little more time has passed my husband will not view himself with any shame for his actions. He is a loving and honorable man and I am beyond lucky to have him.

I bumped several of my old threads for a new WW who has a similar situation to mine in some ways (but not as bad) and I starting musing a bit. In the beginning, I did not “get it.” I knew that this had created immense, agonizing pain and I felt terribly about it, but I struggled with getting my head right and unintentionally I did and said many things that exacerbated my husband’s wounds. Thank God I eventually started to grow and to really comprehend the depths of what I had done. And thank God my husband allowed me a second chance. He is a rare find, and though I cannot undue the damage I will strive every day to be the wife he deserves, to love and cherish him and to make him happy.