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Wayward Side :
I kept AP number.

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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 2:36 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

Not only should you block and delete the number of the AP, but anyone else out there who may have known about the affair and done nothing to step in and stop it. Heck, I had what in after much reflecting and being honest with myself was an EA with a colleague named Shannon years ago. I left that job about 6 years ago now, and Shannon had been laid off 7.5 years ago now, but as a MH, my wife and I were discussing and she had mentioned that me still being able to be in contact with Shannon was too much. So, I handed my wife my phone, told her to delete and block her. Shannon was someone who I was a genuine friend with, an appropriate friend for some time, before it did cross over into an inappropriate zone. It never escalated and wasn't going to escalate, but I didn't want my wife to have any worries that there was going to ever be contact there. That woman had been my friend, but she wasn't a friend of my marriage and that is what was important in the aftermath of discovering my wife's affair. I handed my phone to my wife to do it not because I couldn't bring myself to do it, but I asked her to do it with me right there so she could see that I wasn't hiding anything and there were no secrets or doubts that it was done.

Our spouse is supposed to be the one that we respect and care for so long as we are married. Make no mistake about it, this AP is a threat to your marriage and she should have no way to interfere in your marriage again. Blocking her number and deleting it from your phone is the best move if you want to have a chance to salvage your marriage. Right now you are just a cake eating cheater who still wants to have that AP to fall back to. You are actually setting yourself and your reconciliation up for failure by keeping secrets and lying to your wife. You have already lied to your wife about this and she will eventually find out one way or another. The best advice would be to go to her with a no contact message and show your wife that you are sending a NC message and then let your wife take the steps to delete and block this woman, because she clearly cannot trust you do even that.

Or don't block her and just do the honorable thing and leave your wife instead of continuing to hurt her and your family with your continued cheating.

Myself - BH & WH - 35 years (05/24/1985)Her - BW & WW - 34 years (05/25/1986)<P>D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 237   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8736805
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 throwaway3692 (original poster new member #80344) posted at 3:00 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

@MIgander thank you for this I have screenshot… you are right I need to be more honest in myself. Since stopping speaking to my AP I feel like I have been trying to fill a void and forget about her (not by speaking to other women). I feel like if I really wanted to forget about her I’d have cut the gangrene away. Does this make sense? I worry I make no sense because my head is all over the place.
Can I ask you something? If you were to hold on to an ap number, would it be for future contact (ie there’s a reason for holding on to it)

posts: 18   ·   registered: May. 23rd, 2022
id 8736812
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:22 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

Hi TA,

It seems like you may hold on to it as a memento of the A.

I remember early on that I was mourning the loss of the A. Like you said, the attention I was getting was a huge component of the A. When that was gone and I had only negativity around me because of what I did, it was especially dark.

Thats probably the hardest part of the early days was realizing how much I was relying on the attention my AP gave me to fill the hole I had within myself.

The AP gives us what we do not give ourself. The affirmation and encouragement and self compassion we must first find in ourself. See HOs thread on self compassion, it is q good read. If we cant find that within ourself we will continue looking outward for it. Or find ways to numb the emptiness.

I think that is why so many compare an A to addiction. It fills us or numbs us so we dont see the hole in ourself.

The first step in working this out is allowing yourself to mourn the loss of the A. Then, dig in amd look for what wounds, hurt or lack you used you AP to fill.

Until then, get rid of the contact info!

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

posts: 773   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8736820
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DaddyDom ( member #56960) posted at 3:41 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

I feel like if I really wanted to forget about her I’d have cut the gangrene away. Does this make sense?

Yes, but... fuck your feelings right now. I don't mean that as an insult, but rather, as simple advice. When the affair is discovered, our lives implode. In a flash, the marriage is over. The affair is over. The "double life" is over. Often, our jobs, families, friends and community can be affected negatively as well. And on top of all that, you now have a scarlet A on you, the "label" of a cheater. Normally, when life is difficult and we need comfort and advice, those are the people we turn to for help... but all of those people are gone now, and most of them are so angry at you that they simply don't care how you feel, seeing as how you brought this on yourself and everyone else. You're on your own for now (which is why SI was created, so that you don't have to be alone right now). So... does it make sense that every fiber in your body is telling you to hang on to the AP's number because they are the one person that might be accepting of you right now? Of course! But let's be honest here. The urge to hold on to the AP contact info is a lot like an alcoholic hiding liquor bottles around the house just in case they can't bear quitting. We all know how that ends.

Near the bottom of the first page of the "Wayward forum" you will see a post labeled "Maia's Withdrawal Survival Guide (repost for newbies)". I'd suggest reading through this as it addresses the situation you are asking about, which is how to begin letting go of the AP, and how to begin allowing your mind to reset and see the affair for what it really was, and not as "love" or whatever other BS your brain told you in order to justify the affair.

Can I ask you something? If you were to hold on to an ap number, would it be for future contact (ie there’s a reason for holding on to it)

There are very few situations where this could even be an issue. For example, sometimes the AP is a family member or other person with whom an existing relationship, outside of the affair, already exists and needs to be maintained for some reason.

*** Under no circumstance should any contact info, for whatever reason, be kept, without the BS knowing about it, and "allowing" (for lack of a better word, such as "put up with") it for a temporary period of time. ***

Again, under what circumstances should an alcoholic hold on to a few bottles and keep them within reach? The answer is "none".

One last thing. Please take a moment to ask yourself why we're still discussing this. You started another thread on this topic before this one, got the same answers, and yet, still decided to raise the same question again. And here in this thread, we're already three solid pages in, and you are STILL desperately looking for some excuse or justification to hold on to this damn phone number. WHY? Have some self-respect here, both for yourself and your spouse, AND GO DELETE THE DAMN NUMER NOW. Stop looking for reason to remain a cheater and start looking for reason to be someone better.

No one likes being a cheater. No five year old ever thinks to themselves, "Gosh, one day, when I'm grown up, I want to be the best cheater I can possibly be!". Cheaters are who we DON'T want to be. Not only because it's the wrong thing to do to our spouses, but moreover, because we should have enough self-respect, dignity and healthy boundaries to not want to lower OURSELVES to that level, to be that ugly person, to be that mean, self-absorbed, thoughtless and uncaring of others. Most people couldn't sleep at night for even considering an affair. But you (same as me and all the other people in this forum) made the choice to do it anyway. And that's just fucked up. So you need figure out what about you made it okay to cheat, and address that.

But for now, do yourself a big favor, go delete the number. It might cause you some anxiety and insecurity in the short term. You will survive, and you will grow, and you will thank yourself later for making the right decision.

Me: WS
BS: ISurvivedSoFar
D-Day Nov '16
Status: Reconciling
"I am floored by the amount of grace and love she has shown me in choosing to stay and fight for our marriage. I took everything from her, and yet she chose to forgive me."

posts: 1299   ·   registered: Jan. 18th, 2017
id 8736825
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humantrampoline ( member #61458) posted at 4:00 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

I understand what MIgander, DaddyDom, and others are saying. For what it's worth, I agree that it's not healthy to be in contact with the AP or keep any lines of contact open.

I just don't think that's the heart of the matter. You are lying and living an inauthentic life. You are hiding yourself, your actions, and your feelings from your wife, the person that is supposed to be your most intimate contact. That's what people who have affairs do. You are continuing to do it. Why are continuing to do that? You need to be honest to have any substantial relationship with anyone.

So go to your wife and tell the truth. Talk to her about how you feel and the thoughts in your head. Why don't you do that? I think answering that question gets you closer to your problem than any answer to the question about the AP and her contact info.


Edit: For the sake of full honesty here, I don't think you will talk to your wife. That was my advice originally, and I did not think you would even consider talking to your wife truthfully. In my opinion, you wouldn't even have done this or be here asking others if the truth was an intention of yours in the past or future. Yet, I don't think a genuine relationship can exist without truth. I'm simply asking you to explore that. I didn't intend to do that in a deceitful manner; yet I can see how I might have done exactly that. I apologize throwaway3692. I should not have done that.

[This message edited by humantrampoline at 4:36 PM, Tuesday, May 24th]

posts: 551   ·   registered: Nov. 17th, 2017
id 8736829
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 throwaway3692 (original poster new member #80344) posted at 6:00 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

Thanks for everything so far everyone. I think the other thing that confused me was I saw on a site somewhere that it doesn’t matter if the number of an AP is kept as long as it isn’t used and I’ve been struggling to understand that and get my head round it as keeping it says I will be in contact at some point

posts: 18   ·   registered: May. 23rd, 2022
id 8736845
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BraveSirRobin ( Guide #69242) posted at 6:53 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

does this symbolise that it’s not over and that I want to reach out to my AP again in the future?

You plan to be with her again.

Keeping the number and never using is just no sense whatsoever right

You plan to be with her again.

if your husband kept the number that shows that he is still invested in the AP, yes?

You plan to be with her again.

keeping it and never using is still keeping the door open, speaking or not doesn’t it

You plan to be with her again.

Do you think its possible that she is still in my life even if we aren't speaking?

You plan to be with her again.

If you were to hold on to an ap number, would it be for future contact (ie there’s a reason for holding on to it)

You plan to be with her again.

as keeping it says I will be in contact at some point

You plan to be with her again.

Last May 24, I remember saying the exact same thing to a BW about her WH... 32 times.

WW/BW

posts: 2834   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8736859
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CaptainRogers ( member #57127) posted at 7:25 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

I think the other thing that confused me was I saw on a site somewhere that it doesn’t matter if the number of an AP is kept as long as it isn’t used

Whomever made that statement was CLEARLY NOT a BS and has absolutely no empathy whatsoever. That would, by definition, make that person a sociopath.

Do you really want to take advice from a sociopath?

BS: 42 on D-day
WW: 43 on D-day
Together since '89; still working on what tomorrow will bring.
D-Day v1.0: Jan '17; EA
D-day v2.0: Mar '18; no, it was physical

posts: 3267   ·   registered: Jan. 27th, 2017   ·   location: The Rockies
id 8736864
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 7:40 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

... you are right I need to be more honest in myself.

I read 'more honest' as 'I can tell some lies to myself.' So how many lies are OK? Which lies are OK?

Your best bet is to decide to be honest. Your choice is 'honest' or 'dishonest'. There's no such thing as more or less honest. If you're not totally honest with yourself, you're lying. You get to pick and choose what you show others, but you're screwing no one but yourself if you lie to yourself.

Since stopping speaking to my AP I feel like I have been trying to fill a void....

I don't doubt it. The thing is: no one can fill that hole but yourself. No one can fill that hole but yourself.

You've shown no evidence that you know how to do that so far, so I strongly suggest finding a good IC to help you. You really can fill the hole yourself, and you'll be a lot better off if you do.

*****

I'm a more blunt than usual, I think, because your question is pretty annoying.

First of all, I can't imagine why we can knw what is in your head.

Second, the advice you've gotten is unanimous, and all we've gotten is 'Thanks for your reply.' The least we deserve is, 'Thanks for your reply. I've deleted the number and blocked her every which way I can.'

I've responded because I think the real issues are lying and the hole inside you.

Again, my reco is: Stop the lies and find a good IC.

You can change from betrayer to good partner; if you make that change, you'll be glad you did.

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27413   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8736867
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humantrampoline ( member #61458) posted at 8:04 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

throwaway3692,

I'm not a WS. I can't speak to what a WS goes through. As a BS, the search for answers to a new reality is a painful, obsessive, and relentless pursuit. There are many websites that can give you a viewpoint of a BS, a WS, former WS, AP, and former AP. At a low point, I once tried to make an account as a former WS on one website to see other former WS's viewpoints. It didn't help.

In any case, I hope you find the answers you seek. I hope you find peace.


Edit: I remember more, and that story is even more embarrassing. I tried to create an account as a former AP. And I created a username like PuppyBreath or ButterflyKiss, because I thought that's how APs' would relate. I couldn't get past an initial post. Yikes, I can be a dumbass.

throwaway3692, As a BS, I did cringey things. Have care and sympathy for your BS.

[This message edited by humantrampoline at 8:54 PM, Tuesday, May 24th]

posts: 551   ·   registered: Nov. 17th, 2017
id 8736873
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 8:05 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

Hi fellow ws here, mostly recovered at FIVE YEARS.

I 100 agree with Human Trampoline. This is not the heart of the matter. The number thing is important because it’s a seed for a future betrayal, or a plan b if you can’t work it out with your wife.

To me this indicates limerance with your AP. Not love, and addiction that can only be broken by cutting all ties to the AP, getting therapy, and going on a long trip of self discovery. I recommend reading as much as you can about this. It’s a common psychological response to having an affair.

What happens is basically you get addicted to the dopamine hits of the affair, almost to the point it’s your only source of it. This is caused by the instability and ups and downs of the whole thing.

You likely also rewrite some
Of the history of your marriage and have placed blame on your wife. That’s cognitive dissonance. Read about that too.

Block AP on everything. Get a therapist and start working in why you did this. The things you are looking for are internal to you. This will become a list of this to focus working on yourself about. Ask yourself- why did I feel entitled to cheat?

This is hard ass work. Deleting and blocking your AP is the bare minimum. If you want any chance to save your marriage read "how to help your spouse heal" and "not just friends". Be honest with her and yourself. Posting here is great for accountability.

The ap is your wife’s enemy. She did not care to get in the trenches with you and destroy your wife and your marriage. You do not yet see the damage you have done, that will take time. But affairs are abuse that inflict a lot of trauma she is going to have to now resolve ongoing for years. And it’s going to be worse of you stay this willfully clueless.

Commit. Do the work. Or just go and don’t waste her time. The AP is a figment of your imagination. Her sole purpose for existing in your life is to give you an ego boost. Find ways to get excited about your life that are healthier. She is a fantasy that you have projected onto her. Want proof? Can part of you logically see she is a far lesser woman than your wife? But then you push that away and focus on this undeniable connection? It’s because you can pretend to yourself she is this special thing so you can feel part of something special. A lot of this is self adulation of being able to be someone you are not.

Bare minimum is blocking her, giving your wife access to everything, becoming very transparent. That is bare minimum and the work goes up from there. What you are doing is standard operating behavior for most ws, You have to get out of that and keep raising your standard in yourself.

5 years of hard work
Reconciled
WS & BS

posts: 6113   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8736874
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Bulcy ( member #74034) posted at 11:03 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

Throwaway,

I would like to be honest with you. It seems like you’re on here looking for someone to back you up and say it’s ok to keep the number. You will not get that from anyone on here. If you’re serious about getting out of the affair and saving your marriage, then delete the number…end of…..keeping the number and then desperately searching for a justification is wayward thinking. Please delete it, block it and never again try to make contact.

You’re getting good advice on here, take it and delete the bloody number. Then you can start on the process of personal recovery

WH (40's) Me. Emotional affair (2017), Physical affair (2003) and online affairs, Two physical affairs (2000). D-Day's 2003, August '17, multiple discoveries through 2018,19 and 20, Jan 21 and 2022

posts: 208   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8736932
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Unhinged ( member #47977) posted at 11:38 PM on Tuesday, May 24th, 2022

...keeping it says I will be in contact at some point.

Yes, it does, which is obvious to everyone who's posted on your thread and, most likely, everyone who's read it.

Brother, you're at a crossroads in your life. The choices you make now--today, not tomorrow or next week, but today--will greatly affect the road you'll soon find yourself upon. If you want to be with your affair partner, then go be with her. Let your wife know, in no uncertain terms, that your marriage is over.

If you want to reconcile your marriage, then give it all you've got. Nothing short of a 100% effort will suffice. That includes going completely and utterly no contact with your AP (ghosting her). That includes deleting and/or blocking all contact. You may not believe it now, but most likely your BW will not tolerate anything less than that 100% effort and absolutely no contact. Spend a little time reading in any other forum on this site and I guarantee that you'll find every single betrayed spouse will insisted upon 100% no contact for the duration of the Universe.

There is a window of opportunity to reconcile a marriage after infidelity and it closes very, very quickly.

Let that sink in, man. You do not have time to dick around. Now is not the time to be indecisive.

Married 2005
D-Day April, 2015
Divorced May, 2022

"The Universe is not short on wake-up calls. We're just quick to hit the snooze button." -Brene Brown

posts: 6529   ·   registered: May. 21st, 2015   ·   location: Colorado
id 8736942
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Notmine ( member #57221) posted at 1:30 AM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

I wish you peace and respite from obsessive thoughts.

I also remember repeating advice to a BS who was struggling in a similar way regarding the importance of finding a therapist to help with obsessive thinking. I think this advice would apply you as well.

A good therapist can help you with the pain of obsession. You have been given the same answer repeatedly but you do not seem to hear it. I feel that you are in pain and at the mercy of your thought processes. Please give yourself the gift of freedom by seeing an IC. Gently, I have a form of obsessive-compulsion. Your posts seem eerily familiar to mine before I got help from a qualified therapist.

You are in my prayers.

When you're going through hell, for God's sake, DON'T STOP!

posts: 709   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2017   ·   location: DC
id 8736958
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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 6:43 AM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

Going to be blunt:

In a way, im afraid of hurting AP too - It isnt nice to see you have been blocked and if you know whatsapp, you can also now tell if you have been deleted as your photo disappears. HOWEVER - I could change my photo to 'appear to anyone' setiing and then she wouldnt know, but should I even be caring about this?

Do you think its possible that she is still in my life even if we aren't speaking?


What you posted tells me that you are more concerned about yourself and your AP, than you are of your BW.

The very fact that you are not just deleting the number and any other form of contact with your AP indicates that you are still thinking about yourself. You have not even begun to empathize with your BW, as all you are doing relates to you, and how it will affect you (even thinking about how it may affect your AP, is actually thinking about how it will impact you).

You are far from being remorseful, and unless your attitude changes from inward looking to outward facing, then you will have zero chance of salvaging your M .... if that is what you want.

You do not seem to be very concerned about how your BW is feeling, as she is not factored into any of your posts (save the first one, where she is mentioned very briefly), as it is all about you. You are not concerned about your BWs well-being, just yours and your APs.

You cannot cure stupid

posts: 993   ·   registered: Aug. 12th, 2016   ·   location: South East Asia
id 8736986
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bookworm19 ( member #54871) posted at 4:05 PM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

You got a lot of feedback and time to think about it, I just wanted to know have you deleted the number yet or are you still looking for excuses?

English is not my language, sorry for mistakes and funny words...

posts: 447   ·   registered: Aug. 28th, 2016   ·   location: Europe
id 8737015
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BigMammaJamma ( member #65954) posted at 8:50 PM on Wednesday, May 25th, 2022

Yeah, agree with TheEnd. This seems extremely familiar, like dejavu even. Somebody please help (or should i say PLEASEHELP7) throwaway3692 understand this concept.

Me- born in 1984
Him- born in 1979
We both have 3 kids from previous marriages and we share a four year old. I might be a BS, but at this point, I don't know if I'll ever know.

Update: As of 5/8/2020, my WH confirmed I belong in this club

posts: 221   ·   registered: Aug. 23rd, 2018   ·   location: Deep in the Heart of Texas
id 8737069
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 12:11 AM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

Choosing to protect the AP is protecting the cocoon of intimacy around the affair. That inherently hurts your partner.

As a WS your goal is really quite simple, keep whatever kibbles you can coming from the AP and keep your spouse. That's your goal.

Until your goal is "help WS heal from the damage I have caused at whatever cost to myself and the AP" you are still in a wayward mindset.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2021   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8737104
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 1:49 AM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

I read through this entire thread, all the comments/responses and all the other threads in different forums.

I'll be blunt, this reads as you value your AP far more than your marriage/spouse. Because you seem to have put more energy into her and her number than your marriage/spouse. I've heard more about AP and her "feelings" than I have about your spouses. More telling - I've heard more about your feelings about AP and her feelings than I have about your's for your marriage/spouse.

You've reached the definition of insanity here. Asking the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result.

Choosing words carefully here, but I question if you'd mourn the loss of APs number more than you'd mourn the loss of your marriage.

Respectfully, you have decisions to make. But you do need to choose, not choosing is still a choice. Please...choose wisely.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3484   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8737126
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 throwaway3692 (original poster new member #80344) posted at 11:39 AM on Thursday, May 26th, 2022

Sorry for the silence. Needed to take sometime to try and process my behaviour and comments which I am glad to hear.
I think hearing what other people have said has really brought home what must happen, especially if I am to stay married.
I will be honest, when I saw that post on another forum where someone had said that it was fine to keep the number as long as it was never used, this threw me and I thought 'Well, I have stopped speaking to my AP so that should be enough' which then led on to me wondering what the number itself symbolized and did it show my action for the future.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:30 PM, Thursday, May 26th]

posts: 18   ·   registered: May. 23rd, 2022
id 8737172
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