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Is my wife cheating, please advise

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 CalicoJack (original poster new member #80176) posted at 4:21 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Hello Survivinginfidelity users,

I have come to you to request your opinions regarding the situation I have been in the last 6 months or so. I suspect my wife has been unfaithful and in the following paragraphs will detail as well as I can remember why I believe this. I would like your honest opinions. They will likely influence my actions in the weeks to come so please do not troll me. I am coming to you for help and support as I don't know where else to turn.

This will be full disclosure, some things will probably not put me in the best light, but I think it is important that I be as forthcoming as possible for you to properly assess the situation in order to give me the most honest responses.

First, I will let you know a bit about my wife and myself. We are both in our early 40s but we first met on vacation when we were teens. We were both each other's first love and had a long distance relationship for about 2 years (long distance for teens, only about 150 miles apart). I broke off this relationship to her dismay so that we could both experience normal adolescent relationships instead of being able to see each other every few months for a day.

Neither of us ever really forgot the other and she made a few attempts to rekindle until she got married in her early 20s. I didn't hear from her for 10 years. Then one day out of nowhere she dug me up on Facebook. She was unhappily married and had never forgotten me. Long story short her husband was a very driven guy with a bad case of NPD. He made good money but also made her miserable. It was a few years after my first divorce and not really in a good place emotionally and did nothing to dissuade her. This turned into an emotional affair that lasted a good year before her husband found out. She cut contact for a bit but not long after started talking to me again. He found out again and she cut all contact with me until about 5 years later they finally divorced.
She got back in contact with me at this point. We got together rather quickly after that and within a year were married and expecting. That was 5 years ago and enough relevant background.

Over the next few years there were a few incidents that got me to question her faithfulness that I will not get into here, but a lot of it had to do with her phone usage, notably quickly turning it off when she would hear me coming or turning off what she had been doing as I would appear. I only mention this as it has been an ongoing point of contention and we have had arguments about it in the past where she tells me there is nothing going on and its all in my head. Since these are older issues over which I had very little in the way of evidence, I will not get into them for the time being.

My first clue that something may be amiss caught my attention immediately though I didn't make the connection until a month later. A construction project was turning the area behind our home into a new neighborhood. Prior to that it was a sports field that had been abandonned for a few years. There is only one road leading from our house to the main artery that leads us to the rest of town and sometimes the construction would obstruct it. This led me to having a short conversation with the foreman early on.

One night during dinner, I believe in late September, but it may have been early October, my wife commented in I forget exactly which context that she heard the foreman was an idiot. Right away something didn't seem right about the comment. I asked her where she had heard that. Initially she ignored my question, it was only on the second or third time that I asked that she replied that she had misspoke and meant to say that he seemed like an idiot. Even that comment was out of character for her. This was the main reason I remembered this incident.

At this point construction had been going on over a year and while they had started at the far end of the lot, they were progressively getting closer to our home. The portable office all the workers used as a break room had been moved to about 30 to 40 yards away from our yard with a direct view of our bedroom. A large mound of earth seperates the office from our home at ground level but from the second floor the view is clear. A few months before all this, my wife one day said that we should get some heavy curtains to install in order to preserve our privacy as the crews got closer, since our bedroom overlooks the construction site and until then we only had light curtains not having anyone who could potentially see in, I agreed so I installed a heavy bar to hold them.

A couple weeks after the comment regarding the foreman we are getting prepared for the day. My wife comments that we should get some blur film to put on the window so that you can't see clearly in so as to protect our privacy, I found this odd since I had just installed the curtains a few weeks before. Almost immediately after the comment my wife disrobes, then goes to the window and pulls open the curtains and stretches in front of the now uncovered window practically sticking her breasts against the glass. This being mid October and 7:30 in the morning, its still dark outside. Lights are on in the bedroom. As you can imagine, everything inside can be seen from the outside. I just stand there flabbergasted watching her do this.

The next morning, as we are getting dressed she opens the curtains again. She briefly leaves the room and I look outside and see 5 or 10 guys standing around having coffee in front of the office so I pull the curtains closed again. She returns, goes straight for the window and opens the curtains again, disrobes on the side then goes and stands in front of the window bare breasted for a good 10 to 15 seconds, maybe longer. This time I call her out on it and she answers that we should put up some blurry film on the window. I remind her that is the reason we got the curtains to begin with and she denies that ever having been the reason for installing them (it specifically was and was her idea). She also said something about wanting to let in sunlight (the sun wasn't up yet).

The following Monday (the previous day was Friday) she leaves the curtains closed. Gets ready as normal and I think ok all is well. Day goes normal. She works that afternoon but has the morning off. When she comes home she is going on about how she was hot all day and needs a shower. She also complains of a sore back (she has back problems that are exacerbated by sex). First chance she gets she showers (she almost never showers outside of the morning or evening). She had disrobed in the bedroom leaving her clothes on the bed and I notice her panties are not just soaked but sticky/gooey, with a sperm like texture to them. I had to wash my hands twice to get the smell off.

I know that the following was a bad idea, but at the time I needed to know what would the reaction be on her part. I decide to see what happens if I try for sex. She performs more than willingly, enthusiastically even. As she is giving me oral she does something that in 6 years she had never done. She starts to fondle my testicles. She's also more into the oral than usual. When I go to penetrate her she tells me to be careful as she "hurt herself down there" and was a little sore. Taking into consideration her back problems I try to be as gentle as possible. She will still blame me for her back hurting the next day.

The next morning I setup my phone to record what she does as I shower. As soon as you can hear the water turn on, she walks to the window overlooking the construction site, opens the curtains and window and bends out the window looking off to the side behind our neighbor's house for about 10 or 15 seconds, then sits down on the bed, sends a message on her phone and quickly leaves the room leaving our unprepared son (4 at the time) alone in the room. I get out of the shower and recover my phone and stop the recording. She comes back upstairs from the garage (with a load of dry laundry in basket) several minutes later. I calculated that the whole time spent downstairs between 15 and 20 minutes. There is a rear door from the garage to the back yard and only link fencing behind the house as we had just an open field there since we moved in. I suspect this was another peep show while I was occupado, though more recently I've considered the possibility that she was just collecting the laundry which she sometimes hangs in the yard. When she came back upstairs she asked me if everything was ok, I probably looked flustered. I asked where she was and she said that she had gone to use the downstairs toilet. Keep in mind she almost never uses the toilet longer than 5 minutes at most. This may be a complete nothingburger, or not. In context at the time it seemed significant, but I was not exactly the most level headed that day.

This following part may on the surface seem paranoid, however, a few things had happened over the prior 2 months that had me questionning if she had somehow gotten my phone bugged and was spying on me. I know there are apps and services that claim to do this, so I tried out the following. The next day I type a note on my cellphone saying that I know she is cheating and that I have video of her having sex in our house and that we will not be buying a home together and I will be requesting a divorce if she does not fess up. That afternoon I come home and 2 areas, one in the dining room the other in the bedroom, that are generally heaps of mess even when everything else has been cleaned are strewn all over, partially organized, but nothing else has been straightened. My wife looks like she is seriously out of it. My son tells me that he thinks my wife's mother has died because my wife had been crying a lot. I asked her about her crying and she denied it. At a later time I checked her phone call records and saw that she had spent 90 minutes talking to one of her best friends that morning. They talk a lot, but mostly by message and when on phone it usually isn't more than a half hour or so. Also, never in the morning (I checked their full call history to make sure).

The following day she starts sending me house postings, something that we had been talking about for a while but hadn't started doing seriously. She sets up a series of visits to houses for sale starting that morning and over the next several weeks. Meanwhile she is a borderline wreck. Nothing is being done in the house that I don't do myself. Since I work full time my limited time and energy are insufficient to the task and the house becomes progressively worse. The dining room was unusable for almost a week.

Meanwhile I'm gathering my thoughts and wits to confront her about my suspicions. I write a script and learn it by heart so that I can confront her without losing my train of thought. It takes me about 10 days to work up the nerve.

I also begin to notice a few things I hadn't before. She's started wearing perfume. I don't notice this because she smells like perfume, though one time, I cannot remember when, I noticed her wearing it. I noticed because there was a bottle of perfume in the bathroom that was steadily decreasing in volume. She had maybe worn perfume on 2 or 3 occasions in the previous 6 years. The bottle she was using went down a full centimeter over the course of 2 months. At one point she out of the blue told me that she couldn't wear perfume to work because her patients are often sensitive to odor (she works with newborns and their mothers). By her own statement she was not wearing perfume when going to work, and she wasn't wearing it for me, but she was definitely wearing it a lot. Another thing I noted is that she was doing make up. Not every day but frequently. Until that point she almost never wore makeup, but she was at that time. On a couple occasions she went to work in heels, something else she almost never did up to that point.

During all this time there are a number of instances where I would walk into the room and she would flip her phone closed or close what she is doing (you can see when someone turns a window off or changes the screen they are looking at by the change in color of the light given off from the phone lighting the person's face). On a few occasions this would be accompanied by her staring intently at the phone's desktop but not doing anything. This happened at least a few times a week over this whole period including as many as 3 times in just an hour. There was also a point where I know she was having a rather intense conversation with her 2 closest friends (because I caught a glimpse of the screen while walking by) that I think was related to all this and that I absolutely wanted to read. She left her phone briefly unattended and I was trying to get a hold of it since she was about to shower. She quickly grabbed the phone on the way to the shower and by the time she was asleep the conversation was deleted in its entirety. (Prior to October I had never searched her phone for anything, but by November I was checking it every chance I could get).

In early November I finally get around to confronting her, this is about 2 weeks after the monday incident where she went straight to shower. I've prepared what I am going to say. After we put the kid to sleep I tell her I want to talk and serve us a couple mixed drinks (we drink only occasionally). Short version: I say that I know we are having problems and that I want us to work them out for our sake and the sake of our son. I tell her I know she is cheating, that I cannot allow that, that it hurts me and that I want to understand why. She denies everything. She says she appreciates my concerns and that the way I approached her is ideal but that there is nothing to be said because there is nothing going on. The conversation continues some time but she is not budging. Everything I bring up she dismisses one way or another.

Then make up sex. A week full. Every night. After one of our trists she began to sob and would not tell me why. After pressing her for a long time she told me some (what I think is total bullshit) vague story about her ex husband having been sexually abusive towards the end of their relationship (I know that much is true as it has come up in the past but I didn't believe it was the reason at the time). After another of our sexual encounters she said that it was too bad that I was circumcised, because she finds the foreskin really stimulating (there was extreme stress in her voice when she said this). According to her she has only ever had 2 sexual partners. Her ex husband who was uncircumcised and myself. I found it extremely hard to believe that this would come up at this point in our marriage or that she even remembered the sensations of sex with her ex 6 years later. Then back to regular 2 or 3 times a week for a couple weeks.

I confront her again. More forcefully this time. Saying I know she is not telling me the truth. She is annoyed this time. After a long conversation that borders on argument I start to tell her I had setup a camera when I was in the shower and she got angry for the first time.

Follow another week of makeup sex like the last time. Then back to regular 2 or 3 times a week. Also after this she began to message me over the course of the day via WhatsApp since she can use it on her computer while working. This allowed us to stay in contact more closely over the next months.

Christmas is coming up and I do not want to ruin it for my son so I say nothing more for the next couple months. I decide to go about obtaining as much information as I can I get her phone and download all the information it contains to see if there is anything at all in it. Most of her conversations via WhatsApp are scrubbed, though I did find a couple of gifs that I found suspicious in her sent gifs folder (a feather tickling an eggplant and another rather suggestive image from a show) but no conversations linked to the images. I've seen my wife delete conversations in the past when she thought I was sleeping and I know she has edited her conversations as I have tried to find out who she was talking to and what she was saying at specific times I know she was on the app only to find nothing for that timeframe.

The other big thing I discovered was that there was a search for a hotel on the phone. I am familiar with the hotel in question as it is across from the supermarket we shop at and even closer to the bakery we buy our bread at, in fact directly across the street from the bakery. When I found the search it was open on the screen. I asked her why she was searching for a hotel and she told me she looked into it as a possible venue for a conference she is organizing but had dismissed it as the conference room was not big enough. She is indeed organizing a conference to take place later this year and she was looking into a number of places at the time but my understanding was that the location had already been chosen. That being said, this will be significant in a moment.

I lucked into her google maps history. It showed everywhere she had gone for the past few years. I want to preface this with a caveat however. I did some research into google maps data and the position can easily be thrown off for a number of different reasons and can show someone far away from their actual location if the structures surrounding them bounce the signal. Because of that, I can't take any of what is below at face value. I want you all to consider this when reading. I went over day by day all her movements. I was able to identify and account for all destinations but I noticed a pattern starting in late September and throughout October that was sort of unusual. There were also a couple very unusual routes. I will detail here what I found.

9/25 - At hardware center (similar to home depot) 30 mins. Then 10 mins at the supermarket referenced above across from hotel I will call G Store from here on. 20 minutes home, though it is a 10 minute drive. The 20 minute drive is one of the things that becomes a pattern during this period. Before and after, it is always a 10 minute drive.
9/28 - Goes for a 20 minute drive at 5:50 am that circles around our neighborhood going nowhere in particular, then back home. - I will later ask her about this but recieve no explanation, she doesn't remember doing that. That afternoon, she detours past the Hotel on the way to pick up our son from school which is in the opposite direction.
10/4 - Detours by the G Store after dropping son off at school but doesn't seem to stop to go in. Doesn't answer my text messages for 2 hours (unusual behavior).
10/5 - When I go on my lunch break at work, she is driving by (crazy coincidence? there is actually a good explanation but I found the timing odd since it was right at noon). We go to lunch together and she is seriously off even though normally this should be a good time. Drives to the G Store for quick shopping at 6:37 PM (this could be normal, but fits the devellopping pattern).
10/6 - 6:26 PM Drives to G Store
Nothing out of the ordinary for the next week
10/14 + 10/15 The above described window boob display over the construction site
10/18 - On the morning of the day where she goes straight to shower, after dropping off son she detours to the G Store parking lot but does not leave the car, then comes home.
10/20 - The day I put the note on my phone to see if she would react, she calls me at 6:45 PM maps shows her drive into the hotel parking lot at 7:13 to 7:20 PM. Officially she is at the bakery which is about 100 yards away.
10/21 - She goes to the "Bakery" at 6:36 PM, maps shows her in hotel parking lot across from bakery 24 minute drive.
10/22 - Doesn't answer 2 calls when she is home. Calls me back 5 minutes later but I'm working, I call her back 2 minutes later no answer. Then she calls me 1 minute later.
10/23 - Goes to G Store by way of industrial district (huge detour) and stops 5 minutes at a truck repair station. She returns to that station at least one or 2 more times on later days. Then drive home lasts 54 minutes and drives past the hotel on the way.
10/29 - Maps shows her in hotel parking lot 6:14-6:23 PM, then she goes to a KFC for 10 minutes (this is a popular ride share drop off pick up point because it is at the highway exit).
Following this, nothing until
11/10 - Maps show her all the way across town at another popular drop off pick up point for ride share, then drives straight to the hotel and it shows her in the parking lot for 11 minutes.
Nothing after this until
12/22 - A 22 minute drive to the G Store and another 20 minutes home after leaving the store. This one might be nothing, but she had been acting strange that week (I was off from work) and had tried getting dressed extra nice to go to the G Store when I told her I would go since I needed some air. I believe this is the same day.
12/31 - Gets extra dressed up with makeup and perfume. I ask her why in a WOW babe you planning something special type way. She tells me she just wants our son to have a good memory of the new year. Goes out for an hour (may have been with our son, I can't remember but there is a photo taken of our son at the park she sends at this time), but maps shows her in the hotel parking lot for 8 minutes. Now, I may have actually been with her that time, I remember having gone to the park on new years eve and it was loaded with people because it was actually quite warm that day. This just illustrates my point above about google maps possibly giving false location data. All the hotel parking lot visits may indeed have been trips to the bakery. There are trips to the bakery listed in her maps as well. The main reason I focalized on that location was the search I found and the multiple traces that show her in the parking lot at the same time for the same duration each time.


Now, I confronted her again in January telling her I still thought she cheated and by now she was not very patient telling me this is getting old and that I should see a therapist or something. I told her that I did not tell her everything I knew and then showed her all the trips that show her location in that hotel parking lot. She reluctantly stayed through everything and told me that I was delusional and that there was never anything going on and that she was tired of being accused when she hadn't done anything and didn't really let me finish. She left and went to bed. We didn't make up until the following day. She said something along the lines of she wouldn't leave me for some younger guy or some lady (related to an older infidelity suspicion) and that I had nothing to worry about. She also asked me if I was considering divorce and I didn't answer right away but when I did I said that probably not. She also said one more thing that caught my attention. I'm paraphrasing but she said approximately "Can't you just be satisfied that things are going well now?". The "going well now" part is what caught my attention. It made me feel as if there had been something that had stopped. Or maybe I'm just reading too much into it. She also deactivated tracking on google maps a few days later after we made a couple trips to the bakery and one showed her in the parking lot of the hotel. Ever since she occasionally jokes that shes going to have a 5 minute quicky at the hotel. Thing is, I never said I thought she had sex there. The whole time I had the impression she was either picking up or dropping someone off there.

Anyhow, fastforward a couple months and she had 2 sudden big days at work close together during which she completely disappeared from electronic communications. Normally she would shoot me a message every once in a while, or I would at least see her status as being online or having checked it at such and such an hour. Both times she disappeared completely for about 3-4 hours which is not normal for her, even when working. Her maps didn't show her leaving the office, but now my concern is that she is leaving her phone behind so as not to be tracked by the GPS. It happened a third time a couple weeks ago where there was a sudden big day at work. Each time she goes AWOL for 3-4 hours had been between 11:30 and 3:30 and she is usually extremely active on her phone during the 12-2 period. Once again, maybe I'm just worried about nothing. This is why I'd like your opinions.

One final thing. This is the one that led me to decide to post here today. Last Sunday, she said she wasn't feeling well and wanted to lay down and rest, I said ok and took the kid to the living room to watch a movie. At one point he got aggrivated and I had to stop the movie and then popped out to see if my wife could take over for a bit while I take care of a problem that I needed to attend to immediately. When I came in, she had her phone on her lap, she was laying down and I didn't get a great look, but it seemed that she pulled her arms out of under the covers real fast, what I did see was her flipping the covers over her phone so as to hide what was on screen. This immediately set me off. If I hadn't been so furious I might have thought to grab the phone and see what was on screen. I did ask her about it later though. 3 times she gave me slight variations on how she was doing work but wanted to rest her eyes/tired of looking at documents when I came in so covered/turned it off. None of the versions included her covering the screen with the comforter, that is what I saw most clearly, and it seemed a panic response when I saw it. Last night we finally talked about it and she just didn't want to hear it. Tired of being accused etc. Today she was agreeable until this afternoon when she became angry with me over petty things. One specific thing she said was that this morning I slept in (20 minutes longer than usual) instead of getting up to help her do morning things, which she usually does without me. Maybe I'm in the wrong, I don't know.

Ok so have at it people, that is the gist of what there is to say. I may remember additional details at some point but I'm pretty sure I got everything. I know I don't look great in all this, but like I said I want to give my good and bad to give a full idea of where I am so I can have honest feedback, not just an echo chamber of how I am a poor abused spouse. I may be completely wrong, in fact I hope you all think I'm a fucking idiot. But I want to hear it from someone besides her and myself.

posts: 13   ·   registered: Mar. 30th, 2022
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 4:51 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I make a pretty strict distinction between what I think I know and what I'm not sure about. I wouldn't rule out a PA, but a PA may be in progress. I don't know that she's conducting an EA, but one may be in progress, though I suspect a PA is more likely.

I am pretty convinced that something unhealthy is going on ... but that something could be exhibitionism, a porn addiction, IDK what. There's a lot of 'smoke', and there' some sort of fire producing it, but IMO there are many potential sources of the fire, none of them good for your W or for your M or for you or for your son.

I'm pretty logical and straightforward. I'd confront. When I was ready to end the M over her continued stone-walling, I think I'd tell her some form of, 'I know you're stonewalling. If you don't come clean, we're done.'

I'm not saying that's easy to do. You seem to say that you're heading in the same direction, and if so, I think you're doing the best thing you can do. I also think the sooner you confront, the better for all of you, but that's an opinion, not a fact.

Understand that your W is doing whatever she's doing for her own reasons. She may be telling herself or any ap that she's being oppressed by you, but that's not why she's doing it. It's her, not you.

There may be some unhealthy dynamic between you, but that's not the source of her choices to go outside the M.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:55 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 27917   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8733691
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GreatWideOpen ( new member #69539) posted at 4:57 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Holy shit CJ. You've done your due diligence. Your wife's a big time cheater.
Might there be an old phone in a drawer you could run recovery software on to see what she was hiding in the past?
Set up a polygraph, doesn't matter if you believe in them or not, or if half the people who post a response don't either. Polygraphs elicit "parking lot confessions"
My belief is that the truth is going to stagger your reality. She became a sex toy for one or more of the construction guys.
And the using her hand during oral when she hadn't previously has only two options. She read it in a sexy novel, or she did it with another man.
Very sorry. No reasonable explanation for the mountain of evidence you have.

posts: 40   ·   registered: Jan. 24th, 2019   ·   location: USA
id 8733692
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Hippo16 ( member #52440) posted at 5:24 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

CalicoJack

You have posted a lot of information that points to activity not kosher with normal behavior.

To summarize - seems she has had an affair and/or is still of the mindset of same.

Note that folks (mostly men) in construction work live somewhere (family/house) and have to travel to where their work is. I suspect the hotel visits are related to seeing someone staying at the hotel that worked on the contruction by your house. I bet someone working at the construction site was staying at the hotel. So? Is the construction still in progress? Same foreman there? The words you exchanged with your spouse regarding the foreman should be an alarm. My $$$ is something happened with him.

Regarding coming home and immediatly taking a shower. Hindsight: You should have taken the wet panties and used "Checkmate" to see if deposit you found not from your wife. Also, semen has a rather unusual scent. You couldn't tell?

Phone usage - a dozen red flags! I suspect the 'comforter covering incident' was self sexual stimulation and the cellphone had an image on it from ?? If possible, you should do a data recovery on the phone or take it to someone who can.

You have been making a major error in telling her what you know (or think you know) and how. NEVER reveal your sources!

You should be absolutly finding out everything about your finances!!!
You should absolutly pay a visit to a divorce specialist lawyer regarding your situation. Knowledge is power.
DO NOT inform your spouse of the legal visit and what you find out.

Get that VAR (Voice activated recorder) and consider getting one that is very small and could "get lost" in the bottom of a purse. An internet search will provide sources to obtain. At 100 bucks - it can provicde either peace of mind or the evidence to corroborate your suspicion(s).

There are GPS devices that can be left in a vehicle. One (easy to find if you look) plugs into the OBD receptecle.

Many others will add suggestions so please evaluate them.

And you should permit private messages - there is a box on your profile page that needs a checkmark to enable PMs.

With a PM you can share information with others that may not be appropriate or advisable to post in your thread even though this is an anonmous site.

edit as I hit "post" to soon

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 5:34 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

Not Just Friends

posts: 699   ·   registered: Mar. 26th, 2016   ·   location: OBX
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Buck ( member #72012) posted at 5:27 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Good grief Calico, what exactly is your burden of proof? A recording, a video? I lost count at the number of red flags in your situation.

I second the polygraph suggestion. My WW took one as a condition of R. Cheaters lie, it’s a fact. Look for a poly examiner that works with law enforcement, especially one that does testing with sex offenders. Those folks have the best equipment, most training/certifications, and they know what they are doing. If your wife balks at the test, you have your answer and you file for divorce.

Right now she has no incentive to tell you the truth. You’re not necessarily believing her lies, but you’re not leaving either. She thinks you’ll eventually grow weary of the questioning and drop it entirely.

Have you spoken to her first husband? I wonder if his story differs from hers.

posts: 371   ·   registered: Nov. 4th, 2019   ·   location: Texas
id 8733696
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 CalicoJack (original poster new member #80176) posted at 6:02 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I'm going to try and respond as I can, she is out of the house for a bit but should be back soon. When she left I checked her Whatsapp on her computer and there was a vocal to her girl group about how I'm harassing her again with misplaced jealousy and if anyone has any advice about getting me couciling. This might be a setup message I think she suspects I check her Whatsapp, though one of her friends that I don't care for made some kind of response referring to me as a full grown serviable adolescent. Then comparing the situation to her and her boyfriend (who I happen to know she keeps because she needs a babysitter when she is working).

Sissoon, yeah, I have had a feeling that was smoke I've been smelling. I really don't think its porn, she's not really into it. We've discussed in the past. I'm pretty sure there was an EA several years ago with an old friend that didn't last long for whatever reason. I think there was another EA that was perhaps also PA 2 years ago, but I was never able to get any proof of either. Thats why I'm sticking to this story because its the one I have the most elements on.
I doubt she has felt oppressed by me at any point. I can't completely discount it either as I'm not in her head. I think I basically have the Nice Guy syndrome. I read No More Mr Nice Guy when I started to suspect all this and it helped me quite a bit. I've applied some of it already though I haven't been able to get through all of it. I also need to give it another read.
I'm of the logical straightforward type myself. I've already confronted 3 times with a 4th lesser confrontation last night. She has become less and less open to discussion on the subject with each subsequent confrontation. I get the impression that if I try again, right or wrong, will lead at the very least to separation. The past week has been really rough.

GreatWideOpen, now that you mention it, I think I have her old IPhone in a box somewhere. Thats a really good idea because I have suspicions that predate her android phones and was never able to check. I work in IT and am pretty good at data recovery and finding things I shouldn't. That being said, she is seriously good at covering her tracks. I hadn't mentionned this before, but my wife has an IQ in the 140-150 range. Still I think that is a really good place to check.

Hippo, hello again. I really wish you guys were telling me I have my head up my ass...
I actually had initially stashed her panties. Kept them for about a week but gave up the idea of getting them tested since my understanding is those tests will pick up any activity within a week and we'd had sex like 2 days before. As far as the odor goes, I mentionned above, I had to wash my hands twice to get it off. It definately smelled like sex. Regarding the construction workers, that is what I suspected as well. I don't believe it was the foreman though, rather a worker that said the foreman is an idiot. I also believe it was someone under 30 since she made some comment about the workers all being in their 20s and too young for her (I walk by the site every day on my way to work, about half of them are in their 40s to 50s but there are younger ones). Another detail that I intentionally left out was that after I confronted her, maybe one or 2 days later, as I was walking by the construction site, all the workers were looking at me, something they had never done before or since. A day or 2 later the Foreman was along the route I was walking with one of the workers and the 2 of them waved me hello. Something they don't normally do either. I think that was the guy. I'm looking at VARs and a GPS tracker and have been for a couple weeks. Haven't chosen yet. Will activate PM when done this reply.

Buck, my burden of proof is something that can not be refuted. I thought I had it with the map data but she blew that off and it is now an ongoing joke for her. Last night it came up as a "Oh you're not doing the hotel story again".

I'm thinking requesting the polygraph may be the way to go at this point. I have to figure a way to bring that up.

Thank you all for your advice. I'll be back on when I can, maybe tomorrow at work if I get time.

posts: 13   ·   registered: Mar. 30th, 2022
id 8733701
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 6:29 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Remember – we are hammers and we are trying to see a nail in your info!

You post a lot of info that could indicate infidelity. However, like the phone usage… could be a gaming addiction, a betting addiction…
In my world infidelity is amongst the top 2 worst things to happen in my life. I don’t want to add to our membership if there is no infidelity. I’m not denying it might be but anyone telling your outright that you have enough… is wrong.

What is clear is that you need to get to the truth, and to do so in a conclusive way. Just keep constantly in mind that your mission isn’t to find an affair – your mission is to find out what’s going on. That might be an affair, it might all be in your head, it might be she’s joined a cult or is meeting family or whatever.

There are some basics in investigation that you can follow:

Follow the money. How does she pay for stuff? Where is she making withdrawals? Is she buying gas or coffee at sites that are outside your normal routine? If you have online banking or access to records – at what dates and times are withdrawals made. Are there gaps in your accounts you can’t explain? I remember a poster whose wife made cash-withdrawals at an ATM in a hotel lobby to pay cash for the room.

Affairs need communications. Even if primarily done using messaging, then there will also be phone calls and such. Where does she feel safe to talk? Often, it is in the car, or in the home when you are not there or where she’s private (like in the bathroom). It is easy to use VAR’s or even apps on smartphones to catch conversations.

People in affairs tend to collect mementos or hold something close that has no logical value. Could be something simple like a cheap bracelet, or a keyring or whatever. Or they hide things associated with the affair, like a woman might hide the sexy lingerie or the sex-toys that are associated to the lover. Have you done a good search in your home?

Are her patterns logical? Like if she says she is going to her female friend does she put on? Does she wear the sexy black knickers? Does she carry a bag (other than the typical female handbag)? What is in that bag? Does she take toiletries (as in to freshen up at the hotel/lover’s place)? If she says she is going to the gym, does she then place used sports-clothes in the laundry? Basically – do her actions equal her words. If she says she is going to the store and is away 2 hours and comes back with one container of milk… doesn’t match up.
Does she head for the shower on some days when she get’s home? Does she avoid you those days?
Heck… it is a dirty job but monitor the laundry, monitor her underwear drawer. People tend to want to be clean if they are going for a date, and tend to want to remove evidence, smell and marks once they get home.
Same with trash. If you have a trashcan in the bathroom, go through it every now and then, same if you have a home-office, or in the bedroom. Will not necessarily find a steaming love-letter, but if she is shredding stuff excessively then she’s hiding something.

Have you searched her car? Anything in the ashtray, glove compartment, on the floor? What about milage. If she claims she is only driving to and from work and that’s 20 miles per day, but the odometer is showing 40…

Where does she go? Using a gps you can see where she has been. If you notice a pattern – like most Thursdays at six she drops off at a certain location – you can try being there ahead of her next Thursday.

If shes havin a sexual affair they will want a place to be. If hes single it makes sense that it’s his place, if not then to keep secrecy it is generally hotels or motels. Sex in cars get’s tired and sleazy, as does quickies in the workplace bathroom. It’s highly unlikely that she having sex in the back row of the Home Depo parkinglot. Try to find the place – for example with the gps.

Remember that the only one you need to convince is you. You do not need to catch her in the act or any drama like that. If she is having an affair, it will eventually come out. Only follow this basic rule: Investigate to discover what is going on, and not to find an affair. You MIGHT find an affair but find the truth rather than a predetermined conclusion.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 11167   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8733703
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 6:32 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

When she left I checked her Whatsapp on her computer and there was a vocal to her girl group about how I'm harassing her again with misplaced jealousy and if anyone has any advice about getting me couciling. This might be a setup message I think she suspects I check her Whatsapp,


This is typical of what I warn about:
Because she mentioned this your conclusion is that it’s probably a rouse to sidestep you.
Hadn’t she mentioned it your conclusion might have been that she’s hiding the affair.

DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!
IF you think she knows you are monitoring her WhatsApp, FB or whatever then she WON’T put anything usable there. Plus she will be on her guard.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 11167   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8733705
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This0is0Fine ( member #72277) posted at 6:59 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

VAR in the car. Also consider one for yourself.

Love is not a measure of capacity for pain you are willing to endure for your partner.

posts: 2175   ·   registered: Dec. 11th, 2019
id 8733707
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 7:50 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

CJ, as a fWW, I can say a TON of her behaviors match mine during my A.

She's VERY likely having an A, or a several.

Look, the panties alone are enough. Even after 2 days the "leftovers" from your lovemaking would not have been leaving a smelly residue in her panties. That WASN'T YOURS.

The exhibitionism is disturbing too. Why would she show her boobs to other construction dudes like that?

Please, get a VAR in her car and put a GPS on her vehicle.

A VAR in your bedroom when you're out would be useful too.

Sorry you're here, but... you need to be.

WW/BW Dday July 2019. BH/WH- multiple EA's. Back at it again- bantering w the younger woman. Lied about blocking phone calls and deleted texts. Carried on with her. Financial infidelity again- who says you only cheat with lovers?

posts: 902   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8733714
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humantrampoline ( member #61458) posted at 8:22 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

First, I'm sorry you are in this position. There are people in pain here, but no one intends to troll. Most here understand and have been through similar situations.

The two following things will influence the responses that you get here, for better or worse.

1. You have requested honest opinions.
2. You are on a website with persons who have experienced infidelity.

With your wife, there are facts and actions that you know. There are those that you suspect. I would ask myself what is the gap in information or evidence between them that would allow me to be comfortable acting on the suspected items as fact or not fact. How can you gather that specific information or evidence?

I don't think that's an easy question to answer. Marriage is based on trust, and your instinct is to trust your wife. Personally I think that's healthy. Giving the benefit of doubt, being patient and kind as you have been are admirable qualities. So is confronting with open concern and communication as you have done. Your character is wonderful, and you have been a loving and trusting husband.

The thing is that if it is infidelity, there are lies and lots of them. The good character traits and open communication that is admirable doesn't word anymore.

Based on past behavior, I don't think your wife will admit anything that you can't directly see, and she may deny that. I mean that literally. She will, and has, denied things you actually know for a fact. I don't think she will agree to a polygraph. This is based on her past behavior and your acceptance of that. To date, this strategy has worked for her.

What you do with further evidence and how much emphasis you put on it is important going forward. It's something only you can answer. If you hire a private investigator, and he/she takes a picture of your wife going into a hotel room for an hour and coming out with a man. What will you do with that? She might say they were checking out a room for a conference event or working. The PI may get pictures of her masturbating in the window. She'll say that she didn't realize the curtains were open. My opinion is you need to consider what evidence you want or need and how you will act upon it.

posts: 590   ·   registered: Nov. 17th, 2017
id 8733718
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Underserving ( member #72259) posted at 8:25 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Sorry to be crude, but semen has a very distinct smell. Did it smell like that, or more like "her”? If it was Semen, that’s really all the proof you need. I have never experienced "leaking" 2 days after sex. I even did a quick search and it’s only considered normal up to a day after.

All I had was a gut feeling about my husband’s affair. Turns out it was right.

[This message edited by Underserving at 8:26 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

BW (32)Found out 3 years post end of AD-day 12-9-19In R

Infidelity brings out the cuss in me. I’m not as foul mouthed in real life. ;)

posts: 775   ·   registered: Dec. 9th, 2019
id 8733720
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Jameson1977 ( member #54177) posted at 8:29 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I replied to your other thread, but wanted to say listen to what MIgander has said!!

posts: 807   ·   registered: Jul. 16th, 2016
id 8733721
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HalfTime2017 ( member #64366) posted at 8:32 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I read no verifiable proof of cheating, but there are instances that should be red flags.

First, the whole standing naked at the window thing is just weird to me. Most women don't try to share with the world their goods, especially constructions guys next door. I think its too early to know if she might have cheated with one of those guys, but at the very least she is an exhibitionist.

I agree with the others. You need to Var her car and your bedroom. Her car is a great place b/c she will probably talk to her friends in her car.

I think that you need to build a better case before you confront her again. If you're incline, it would behoove you to hire a PI after you try with the VAR first. If she has not cheated, she should be furious with you, I know I would be. I'm not saying she did, or didnt. I just think you need more proof before going ahead at this time. All those little red flags got you here, now you need to lean into the investigative work.

posts: 1383   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2018   ·   location: Cali
id 8733722
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DoinBettr ( member #71209) posted at 9:02 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I would say she is doing something. The flashing the construction workers is her showing off.
She probably is still at it online, just editing things. just install a keylogger on her phone. It should be easy, but you have to install it on the phone's root.
The cleaning and crying thing are suspicious. She has something on your cell phone potentially, so put the key logger to a website you can review online.
Lastly, the goo in the panties could be a yeast infection. The problem is that points to her having sex and potentially not peeing afterward. It could be another guy which would explain the new sexual moves. That is by far the most smoking gun. Ladies don't learn new moves out of the blue. Sorry gals, but you aren't researching how to get your guy off better. You think you get us done, so you are the champions at sex. It is usually you learning more about getting yourself off during sex or feeling desired.
The hiding the phone is stupid and sounds like she has a real problem trusting you in general.
A person who wasn't cheating would be worried more about how you are feeling and less about putting you down to make you stop. Why isn't she seeing all the investigating and frustration you have and fixing it. That is classic cheater with the only I matter in this relationship attitude.
Drop the straight to R. That will always backfire. Everyone here will tell you that. You need to come in hard and with lots of evidence.

posts: 715   ·   registered: Aug. 7th, 2019   ·   location: Midwest
id 8733730
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RealityBlows ( member #41108) posted at 9:44 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

A lot of circumstantial evidence, nothing actionable. I would stop confronting. Each confrontation is driving, whatever is happening-if anything, further underground.

The exhibition activity is very concerning and strange she did it right in front of you (if I perceive that correctly).

If you could get a hold of her phone for 20 mins and run a Dr Fone scan that might be revealing. Also there are teen monitoring apps that monitor all text traffic including text apps.

The Google GPS tracking is very crude and unreliable. There are better stand alone tracking devices out there.

If all surveillance fails to reveal anything substantive, I would then have a sit down discussion about certain behavior that have concerned you and then try and push for more transparency in your relationship, more discretion and have a talk about boundaries.

It’s poor boundaries and discretion for her to disparage you IFO her girlfriends or talk about intimate marital issues with others outside the sanctity of marriage.

It’s very poor discretion and boundaries to put on an exhibition IFO a construction worksite. Not smart at all. I would be pissed if I caught my wife doing something so foolish.

Not cool to have untraceable text apps (WhatsApp) when in a marriage when standard texting works just fine-if not better. With WhatsApp and Snapchat etc, you can’t see text traffic on the phone bill.

PS: look for a burner phone. Look under the car seats. Also, check her phone’s App Store "Purchased Apps" history section and see if she’s shuttering certain apps. (Download-use-delete-download again-use again-delete again).

Also check her data usage. It will break down data usage by App and length of time.

Also, check her "Screen Time" located in Settings.

posts: 1008   ·   registered: Oct. 25th, 2013
id 8733738
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ChamomileTea ( Guide #53574) posted at 9:47 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

The bottom line is that you don't trust your wife. Whether she's actually cheating or not, I couldn't begin to say. You've been REALLY looking though and you haven't found any solid evidence of it, so there's that. Bear in mind that we're a big bag of hammers here at SI, so everything looks like a nail to us. I don't think you can infer anything from whatever opinions you collect here.

There are a couple of things you can do though. You can insist on a polygraph test and follow through with it. You can hire a PI. A good way to minimize costs is to set up a day or weekend when you can be out of town on business or something. Giving her lots of lead time to organize a tryst when she's pretty sure she won't be caught will save you money since the PI will have a set window of time to look at. Kind of, "when the cat's away" scenario. OR.. you can just go ahead and divorce her out of hand. Because... the bottom line is that you don't trust your wife, and that's no way to live.

It's unfortunate that you two got together via a cheating scenario. You've literally watched her cheat and lie, so now you know she's capable of it. Typically, it takes quite a bit of therapy to correct that, and not just for her, for you too. Cheating isn't about the circumstances of the marriage. Her cheating had nothing to do with her ex being a narc and everything to do with her lack of integrity and boundaries. Cheating didn't solve her narc problem, did it? Ex was still a narc, right? LEAVING fixed her narc problem because that's what put him out of her life. We have plenty of alternative choices when we're unhappy in a marriage. We can talk to our partner. We can insist on counseling. We can separate. We can divorce. But cheating?.. that's not a solution and it's not because of anyone else. No one can make you throw your integrity away. No one can MAKE you behave in ways that are counter to your character. Your wife cheated with you because there was NOTHING inside her providing a hard stop. No core value/beliefs. No boundaries. And THAT is what needed to be repaired before she got back into a committed relationship again.

If you don't want a D... I'd suggest you both into therapy and figure out what your values and boundaries are, and whether you're in agreement or not on these issues. Whether she's cheating or not, you don't trust her, and that's no way to live.

BW: 2004(online EAs), 2014 (multiple PAs)Married 38 years; in R with fWH for 7

No one can make you into a liar but you.

posts: 6192   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2016   ·   location: U.S.
id 8733739
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Ariopolis ( member #75786) posted at 10:18 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I read your post a couple of times and came to a few conclusions.

I have no idea what's going on other than the inexcusable exhibition at the windows.

Your wife could be doing nothing other than acting out with her friends to piss you off if she feels confined by something you might be doing.

Your wife could be having an EA, a PA, serial As, with one or many guys. A neighbor, construction worker, grocery shop bagger, who knows.

She could have discovered sexting or she could be prostituting herself.

I have no idea.

I'd be interested in having a VAR in the bedroom, and maybe an apple watch that's synched to her phone.

But you really need a PI to follow her and determine once and for all what she's doing.

And have the self discipline not to tip her off, skew the results, or spook her this time.

posts: 257   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2020
id 8733746
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 10:48 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

I would put hidden cameras (kinds that look like pens or something innocuous) in your bedroom and a few other places and put a real gps tracker on her car. You are not going to be able to let this go until you know.

Perhaps hiring a PI to follow her for a few weeks is the best use of money.

I’d say you are barking up the wrong tree but the exhibitionism in front of the workers right while you are watching her is ridiculous.

Also if you can clone her phone it would be Interesting to get her messaging real time. You’d need passwords tho.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:49 PM, Thursday, May 5th]

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3478   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
id 8733754
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grubs ( member #77165) posted at 11:10 PM on Thursday, May 5th, 2022

Your wife cheated with you because there was NOTHING inside her providing a hard stop. No core value/beliefs. No boundaries. And THAT is what needed to be repaired before she got back into a committed relationship again.

This is the primary problem especially when combined with your history with infidelity. You know she's capable of it. She knows your past. The way your marriage is going appears to paint you as incompatible with each other at this time regardless of any infidelity. That may be fixable if you both want. It may not be.
Go to therapy with someone with infidelity experience. Regardless of how your marriage will work out it will be to your benefit to get help. After a session or two to help clarify your mind and put her at ease, I'd ask for a polygraph. Just say I regret not acting on the red flags from my first marriage and I can't let this go. Will you take a polygraph? After placing Vars. That should at least give you some idea of whether or not your marriage is salvageable. What you have been doing so far isn't working.


This following part may on the surface seem paranoid, however, a few things had happened over the prior 2 months that had me questionning if she had somehow gotten my phone bugged and was spying on me. I know there are apps and services that claim to do this, so I tried out the following. The next day I type a note on my cellphone saying that I know she is cheating and that I have video of her having sex in our house and that we will not be buying a home together and I will be requesting a divorce if she does not fess up.

You can tell whether or not your phone has a consumer available spy app on it. You might need to dig a bit but they leave traces. If you really think this, factory reset you phone, change your passwords(any used on the phones) and passcode.

posts: 1373   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2021
id 8733759
Topic is Sleeping.
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