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Hello ASCL,

There's something really not adding up to me about your fateful night. I contrast your A to my A. Yours was going from nowhere to full-do-everything in a single night. Mine was death by a thousand cuts. I had power through the whole thing. I was a willing codirector of our movie where we continually shattered frail, paper-thin boundaries ourselves together by baby steps until real sex arrived.

You went wild on one night. You say you don't remember a lot but say the sex was great. You blanked some of it out. Did you feel like you had full power in the decision making that night or did he have power over you?

It was a short time before your fateful night that you were sexually harassed and attacked by your boss. That had to have some type of an impact on you. Are you in IC? I wonder if some professional input on your bad night would give some more context. I could be convinced easily you had a predator as an AP.

Have you been able to stay NC with your AP? You had such a long run time with him up until the fateful night.

This feels like you're saying that even if y'all stay together, that you'll still never like the sex with your H as much as you do with your AP.

If you two stay together, then you need to do everything you can to make the sex with your H the best you've ever had, and you need to let him know it.

This is likely a huge part of the issue for your H. It would be for me; no matter how much I loved my W, I could never stay under those circumstances. Yes, I realize that a lot of people reading this would think that's crazy. But it's just how I am, and it's how a lot of guys are.

Make it the "best" with him, do things you never dreamed you'd do with him, push every limit, and I promise you; if he's like me, he'll feel like he's number 1 again. Let this lie, think to yourself "yes, sex with the AP was better, but that's not really important", and it'll eat him alive forever and he'll either move on or never heal.

Yes, I'm aware that a lot of people are reading this thinking "that's so juvenile". Perhaps it is, but I think it's more common than perhaps we all want it to be. My W never cared that she wasn't the "best", it just didn't bother her at all that I'd done things with other people that I didn't do with her (offered, she was not interested). Didn't bother her that I had more intense sexual experiences with other people before we met and she had no desire to try to "top" them (even though she could have, no doubt about it). But for me, and a think a lot of men, it's different. We measure ourselves by the way we make women feel about us, and we measure that love by the sex that we have together.

It's 100% critical that if you get the opportunity, you do whatever you can to make your husband the best again. Push every limit, do things you never thought you'd do with your H and, I won't promise, but I can say with pretty good confidence that you'll "fix" this part of your relationship. And without this part, for a lot of BS's, there's no marriage to save anymore.

ASCL - So sorry you are hurting. You said a few things in your post that make me concerned for your well-being. If you are struggling and find yourself in a really dark place, please promise us you’ll call 1.800.273.TALK. Lots of people care. Please take care of yourself.

I admire you for your dedication and hard work. I admire you for your honesty throughout this hard and torturous journey you are on. Reading what you have posted about your husband leaves little doubt that he still loves you. Love and time are a powerful thing. You doing the little things like cooking food for him and your son and being there for him is amazing. I do want to see you still connected with your son and be there for him in person and I am glad that you two talked that out and hope it works out well. You read about BHs losing that special love for their spouse after an affair. I don't see that with your husband. After all he had been through he still loves you. It took five months for me and my wife to get back together and so it possible. I pray that it is possible for you too.

It matters a TON to most men, that much I can tell you. The "bigger" thing will be an ego blow, that's something that we all just have to get over. I'm sure my W has had "bigger" before me (claims the AP wasn't, but, if he was, yes, I would want to know and yes, it would bother me). But the "better" thing, man alive, that would kill me.

I'm a bit late replying to this particular tangent, but wanted to add my $.02 because I'm almost the exact opposite.

Being told the OM was "better" wouldn't bother me nearly as much. I can always make myself a better lover, whether by research, communication with my partner, practice, improving my physical strength and stamina, etc.

But "bigger" I can't really do much about, despite what the spam in my inbox would have me believe So that would bother me much more.

[This message edited by PlanNine at 9:57 AM, January 4th (Thursday)]

Ascl, As you might recall, I have a somewhat different take on this. If your husband is even halfway as compassionate and remarkable as he seems to be from what I can ascertain in your posts here, then I think it's his heart and his dignity that are where the battle is to be fought for and won, not the bedroom so much.

Now I know that I just spoke in what is seemingly a very counterintuitive manner where most men seem to be concerned. But compassionate hearts aren't built the same as the run-of-the-mill ones that I typically run across in man-land.

You seem to struggle a LOT with being in his shoes and mind, or at least you used to earlier in in your posts. I would like to know more about your husband...I think he needs you to really FIGHT for him and the marriage but in a VERY respectful and soft, tender way. This isn't second nature to most folks,IMO, much less "waywards". But empathy and real LOVE, as well as the art of skillfully communicating such, can be learned, just like any other language. And minds and hearts CAN be joined together and made ONE as well.

I think that you can do this. And I think that he would almost certainly let you, and that he'll likely help in the effort as well. Everyone wants to be loved and respected in varying ways. You ARE loving and respecting him now within the frame of reference that you are operating within. I want to help you (and him, if possible) to redefine that frame of reference...redefine the boundaries both of you are holding to.

Obviously, you want that too, but people in conflict very often can't see anything beyond the lines they have dug themselves into. They (myself included) often don't have the vision or the heart to be creative in how they interact or negotiate with one another.

If I'm right about him, he needs his heart BACK. And I think you can help him get it back, at least in part. That may or may not mean marital reconciliation, but both of you sound like "keepers" to me. I think each of you got so blindsided by everything that y'all had forgotten how valuable you both actually are.

[This message edited by Cephastion at 10:32 AM, January 4th (Thursday)]

Okay, so here's my "diabolical plan"...

There's a verse which you will undoubtedly recall in which Christ states that wherever your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

That's my primary angle here and also what I'm considering making my tagline/signature thingy, too, incidentally.

Have you ever gone fishing? I stink at it, but it's something most guys seem to just LOVE to do (I'm also not a great fan of eating fish all that much so...). However, Christ also said that He'd make His followers "fishers of men" even though He was something of a carpenter and called Himself a Shepherd among other things.

If you're only going after one fish, rather than just using a net or dynamite, most folks use a fishing pole and some bait or a lure of some sort. Different lures work with different fish, but there's more to it than just that.

Once you get a nibble, you have to be patient and wait until they really get a taste of the bait and then you set the hook with a jerk on the line.

But even AFTER the hook's been "set" into their jaw or whatever, you often times have to "play" the fish--giving it room and space (letting some line out and releasing the tension on it's resistance) and then reel it in some until it pulls away again...

This process repeats itself until the fish either tires out from pulling, it gives up the fight, or else the line breaks from too much tension/force for the line to hold.

I think he's still on your "fishing line", but it's just too much mileage and "force" to expect him as hurt as he is and as horrific as the whole nightmare is/was to him to simply give in or let you "win" the fight on your terms. (Not that you're being demanding with him in any real way, I'm just trying to speak more from the "fish's standpoint" there). I think you need to use the little bit of connection you still have with him to "coax" him into investing in you and back into the love he's still got in his heart for what ya'll had together.

If you can get him to meet you for coffee somewhere...or do things like this meal thing you're still doing, but somehow get him to put a little ante in the thing like going with you to purchase the food or helping you prepare the meal(s)...if you can do things together with your son on neutral ground like a park or shopping...little things...things that require him to "invest" just a little of himself along with you...I think it will stir the coals and embers that are still there and glowing some.

I don't think it's even remotely fair to pressure him to go all in or have you move back in or pretend that it's all gonna be "ok" or whatever. I just think that he still loves you and you still love him and whether he can see past his own pain and your betrayal or not, you can still love him however possible and FIGHT for the little chances you can get to not only show HIM where you're at in all of this (which he likely is not in confusion or doubt about from the sound of things I'm guessing), but also to help him love you back in ways that won't hurt so much to do so.

Even if he NEVER recovers from all of this the way either of you would wish (worst case scenario) you'll still have to both look back and render an account for how you loved and tried and fought/contended for the marriage and for healing of one another...or else...for how you simply didn't. And there's a lot to be said for how far putting up a good fight for what's right and best in your own heart goes with not only YOU, but also the person you're at odds with. Even an actual ENEMY will often respect a real heartfelt struggle to survive or thrive. And he's said himself that he's no enemy. And you knew that already. So fight for your kids but also "fight" in a fisherman's gentle and wise/cunning way to get everyone back in that boat together the way a family should be. I think he needs that kinda like your son does.

What does your inner sense/gut say to my post here?

RSVP

(P.S. When I end with "RSVP" that's my way of asking for direct feedback, as in: "Please respond if you would")

Hi everyone, and thank you so much for your posts! I apologize for not being on SI much today; my son has been with me today ❤️ and he still is...I’m (unsuccessfully) trying to get him to sleep (it’s hard to take a hard line stance on bedtime when he asks for “just a little more time to play” because I’ve missed seeing him so much - it’s like I’m drinking in every moment of his presence).

I have read your posts and they are very thought-provoking and I appreciate them. I will respond tomorrow; right now I’m enjoying my time with my little man.

Thank you for the thoughtful advice and I will be back. Have a wonderful night all. I think I’m going to sleep better tonight than I have in weeks now that I have my precious boy by my side.

Now THAT'S a great bedtime story!

Music to my ears as well...

Nite, nite, ASCL & son. I do wish the best for you ALL (hubby included).

Piano Guys: O Holy Night/Ava Maria w/ Lexi Walker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGHUmpUu7Gw

Hi, I'm a bs but I relate to your thread on numerous levels.

My ww and I are still married and we have a daughter together. I also have a son with an ex gf who had primary custody until 2 yrs ago and now I do. My son is on the asperger autism scale and is very difficult. His mom and I don't get along too well and have different parenting styles, concerns, etc. For instance she put him in a day ward of a psych ward w/o my legal permission and moved to another city to be with a new bf. She's had at least 4 bf live with her in 8 yrs and been married and divorced in under a yr. Yet we have to co-parent. My advice is never give up your involvement with your child. There are many different dynamics involved - you, BH, you and BH, BH and child, and you and child. All interrelate but are also somewhat stand alone. You and BH will impact the relationships with child but at the end your child needs you too.

I remember the thread where ap sexual prowess was mentioned too. I think I commented there. Its always amazed me how many ap we hear about are terrible in bed, last 3 seconds, etc. Imo I'm sure that's true for some but I think its inconceivable that it be true for all. I think for many its a "white lie". My ww insists its true for her for all 3 guys she had sex with. I don't really know. I wonder. I think if she told me what you said it would hurt but at least I'd know its true vs wondering if its yet another lie (albeit one I can't ever prove or disprove). Its difficult to put the feelings in words but I respect your honesty.

I also notice some really brutal posts. I think just because someone is a bs doesn't make them by default 'a good person'. Some are really repulsive and actually scary.

This may just be the time you have to fight the hardest for your H Instead of giving up. It was at about that same time I told my H I wanted a D. Yes, I wanted him to respect my space but he also didn't accept a D. . He fought harder when I thought he would go away. He fought harder when I thought he would give up. In my mind, he has already left me I once. I also agree that winninghim back is most likely not in the bedroom. I think it is more likely the key is held in the heart . You have expressed this fully in your thread that you love him and you sound remorseful. I suggest you make sure he knows that. It is a delicate balance, however. I wanted my H to respect my space but also if he just acquiesced I kind is thought he didn't care that much. When he disnr cry or appear in pain, I assumed he didn't have any. I think you should consider sharing your feelings with him like you have o. here. I know imit can be a deal breaker and it almost was for us. It would have been if my H had Quit when I wanted to. At least you will know that you have done everything.

I have a practical suggestion for you. You may want to discuss it with IC. My H was telling me that he would do anything. Words were empty He started showing me. Maybe you could draft a List of things you are willing to do to save the M and start doing them. You may want to share that with him and ask if he would like to add anything or perhaps you just start walking it out. Perhaps it would weaken some of his resolve if you made this offer. The most powerful thing my H said was that either way he was getting help to be a better man and father.

i

How's it going, ASCL?

Yes she said she was going to post a couple days ago, next silence! Hmmm

I’m sorry I haven’t posted.

Have been working with the IC over some hard issues and how they are likely impacting my marriage. Been in somewhat of a funk. And my husband has been polite, but distant...I shouldn’t have expected otherwise, but I guess I did.

Struggling.

Please share.

Did you ever get your son and yourself to sleep that fine evening y'all were finally together?

Amy new terms agreed on for sharing time with him for now?

Any feedback ideas regarding my diabolical plan?

What'd you think of that m-vid I sent? I was thinking it might help you out him to sleep (if that's what you actually wanted to do )

I have so much to share. I'm working on my responses (they are long, so I will not be able to post them until later on). I appreciate all of the suggestions thus far, and I apologize for being away. This past week marked the anniversary of the date that the A happened and it has been full or triggers - on top of that, IC has been very intense. I have cried so much that I don't know if my tear ducts will be able to continue to work - but from what I've read, the first "antiversary" is always the worst?

I would like to ask that you please pray for my husband if you have a spare moment today. He started his new job today after being out of work for a few months. He is working for a family member - but he didn't get hired because of nepotism; he is qualified and competent to do the job. When I came this morning to bring him the lunch I made for him to take to work he seemed a little nervous about his first day. He didn't say anything about being nervous but I know him and I could feel it in his body language.

Please pray that he has a good day, that he will feel confident about himself and that he will know that he can do this; please pray that being able to be a breadwinner again will help him restore some of the self-esteem he lost when he was fired from the previous job (due to no fault of his own but due to being unable to focus because of learning about the A).

My husband prides himself on his ability to provide and on his work ethic and I know it was difficult for him psychologically to accept a job offer from a relative. Lots of his relatives are in business with one another, but my husband has always gone against the grain and done his own thing. But, as I have tried to tell him, this isn't a charity job offer; they didn't hire him because he was out of work and because he's family; they hired him because he will be an asset to the business. I pray that he will see that and that he will settle into his new position and that he will shine like he always does.

I have to log off as I need to get my son to PT. When I post again I intend to address the comments that you all have made; I'm sorry that I have not done so yet. Please, please pray for my husband to have a good day today - he needs this so much.

Asocalledlife.....

You speak with such pride about him.

You asked for prayers FOR him. I am so proud of you. Keep moving forward.

I pray this job helps to boost his self esteem. That he is able to feel some level of control on the chaos of you both recovering from this.

I send YOU prayers of strength & clarity.

Thats the great thing about prayer...its meant to be given to everyone.

Chin up....move forward....keep growing. Again...so proud of you ❤

ASoCalledLife,

I'm sending positive thoughts and energy to your family today. Your love for your husband is showing. It sounds like you're doing some great work.

My husband prides himself on his ability to provide and on his work ethic and I know it was difficult for him psychologically to accept a job offer from a relative. Lots of his relatives are in business with one another, but my husband has always gone against the grain and done his own thing. But, as I have tried to tell him, this isn't a charity job offer; they didn't hire him because he was out of work and because he's family; they hired him because he will be an asset to the business. I pray that he will see that and that he will settle into his new position and that he will shine like he always does.

I ran nuclear reactors in the navy for 4 years.

I also, after I got out of the navy, was hired by my father. I will tell you the pressure to prove one's self is very real. People assume you are there because you are family, and maybe you are. But there is a demand to do your best because you are assumed to be "not enough" on your merits. It will take time to prove himself to others.

I will also say that working for or with or over a relative is very difficult. You are both worker and son and he is also father and boss. Not sure your husband's relation to the business, but I'm sure there is enough there to be an issue.

Even though I had proved myself over and over in the navy, it was very difficult to feel competent in the new job I was doing.

One time I went to a sales meeting and someone jokingly said, "Ha! You thought you hit a triple but you really just were born on third base!"

That is a cruel thing to say.

Suffice to say I would have been fired many times over or my business would have gone under many times over if I wasn't good at what I do. I paid for this business every penny for what it was worth and earned every payment I made to my father. It took 12 years. Additionally, he will need good interpersonal skills to work with a relative. It is hard.

So I commend your husband to stepping into a difficult situation to support his family. He is a strong man to be able to do this. I will pray for you both. Good luck!

NP5

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 10:50 AM, January 10th (Wednesday)]