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I donít know where to put this.

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Lostallalone posted 10/21/2020 09:11 AM

From one MH to another my heart breaks for you. We have different stories but same result. I have no wise words for you, I'm sorry. But know I'm here for support if you need it.

BraveSirRobin posted 10/21/2020 09:19 AM

However, I mean no offense to anyone, I can understand if his way of communicating made anything harder for you. I don't think that was an intention, his concerns and issues were around me.
Mmmmm... I'm not sure I buy that. Heads up, I have personal triggers on this issue, so feel free to scroll on by if that's not something you're in a place to take in.

I do remember how angry TTP got, he and Manish's Dad, over the way their wives were being treated. It was pretty clear that he thought you were wasting your time here. But at the same time, he was creating a deliberate persona, one that had contempt for the struggles of betrayed spouses here as weak assholes who couldn't either make peace with what happened or have the self-respect to walk away. It's simple, he argued. I'm going to be happy. She knows this. I'm only here because I believe she'll toe the line from now on, that she understands how completely unacceptable lying and cheating are, that I'll be fine without her. I've divorced before, and I can do it again. I don't know why anyone would ever handle it any other way.

It's pretty evident in context that this was a massive lie he was telling himself as well as everyone else. He was, in fact, completely unable to leave you, even with a golden parachute and your reluctant blessing. He was looking for you to give him a way to stay with his self-respect intact. I can sympathize with him and yet not give him a pass. It was a deliberate act to boost himself up by distancing himself from the betrayed spouses here. My own BH's principal struggle has been an inability to let go of my long ago A, even though he desperately wants to. Reading that offhanded assessment from TTP, and thinking "he can do it with a remorseful WW, why can't I" had real life consequences for him. And as in the case of what he did to you, I don't think it's that TTP didn't know that he was making the BS here feel inadequate, or didn't intend it. He needed to feel more powerful than them, different and better, and certainly not "lucky" to have a WW who gets it. (Even at the time, those comments made me wince. No BS is lucky to have a cheating spouse.)

It came from a place of pain, but it's hard for me to believe that it was unintentional.

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 09:36 AM

Yeah, I could have done with out that. I am not in a position where I should have to defend him to this forum about this forum. Out of all the shit I said, THIS is what you decided to debate about? I love you, BSR but it's too much.

It's pretty evident in context that this was a massive lie he was telling himself

Exactly. Period.

Look, he created a profile because at the time he felt I was being bullied. I do not remember the exact time frame but I was getting really nasty messages from someone and wouldn't tell the moderators. This person would also intentionally post shit about what I said and if I responded would send me a seething PM. He was pissed I was staying he just didn't see how this place could be helpful because he knew I have huge problems with self-flagellation. He didn't feel I needed more. If he had contempt for others here, it's because there were certain ones who probably gave him contempt.

He didn't spend a lot of time reading posts I was not involved in. He had no relationship to anyone here. So, if he was lashing out intentionally as you seem to think he was (I don't buy it) then it was at the people he felt were tearing me down when I was trying so hard to pick myself up.

Now, we both know that people who are like that are just in their own pain. But with his pain and mine and all the shit I was going through I think it's a little unrealistic to think he could take in the pain of the anonymous people on the internet who were accusing me of having affairs with other members, proposing I was trying to be seen by the BH's as a perfect woman, another inboxing me seething PMs, and so many other things that I don't even want to bring up because I forgive all of it. I even believe I caused *some* of it. You of all people should have understood his frustration at this time.

I know it's hard not to see someone who hurt someone you have grown to care about in the most sinister light possible, but at this point I do not see him that way. Especially over a very small role he has played in this forum. I would have to go back but I think he has had all of two threads and probably mostly otherwise participated in threads I was in.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:04 AM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

RosesandThorns posted 10/21/2020 09:36 AM

What Owl said. I was just going to make one final post about HO taking care of HO. That has been what's motivated me to post these numerous times. I'm ill equipped to analyze your WS's motives or level of remorse. You have other posters on here who understand your situation better and can offer valuable insight that I cannot.

The posts I have read from you over the past year since I've joined this site lead me to believe you are an extremely intelligent, articulate woman who made some horrible, selfish choices. But you pulled your head out of your ass, and you worked hard to grow. You invested tons of time here on SI, helping people. It sounds like you started out with earlier trauma (abuse), had to heal from damage to yourself with your affair (I do think infidelity damages the WS, too), pushed and pushed and pushed yourself to be a safe partner for your spouse, to now "get to" experience this whole thing again from the other side. Not trying to paint you as a victim, just point out that you've been through A LOT. You seem very, very good at pushing yourself and trying to understand the husband, but I worry that you will put yourself last here. You CANNOT AFFORD to do that as a BS. It will eventually break you down. Mentally and physically. Please hear that.

Okay, this uninvited advice fairy is taking a break. My prayers are with you and your husband, HO.

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 09:40 AM

Thank your Roses and Thorns. I appreciate all you have said and done for me on this thread, and have read some of your posts multiple times.

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 09:46 AM

I want to add, the way my husband posted was consistent with what I know about him. His attitude about stoicism has always been there and many times and in many ways it helped us with other situations.

His concepts that he was sharing, he believed in them. They just were ineffective in helping him cope with something so huge.

RosesandThorns posted 10/21/2020 10:14 AM

Anytime, Hiking Out. I'm sorry you're in this place to begin with.

DIFM posted 10/21/2020 10:20 AM

I don't think any of what he did was to exact revenge, any more than it is to think a typical WS cheats with the intent has to hurt their BS. No, he was reacting to issues in his life and he acted in the moment on things that he thought would make him feel better. In that moment of time. There should be no excusing his behaviors or choices. He manipulated and betrayed trust......like all WS's do.

At the risk of peril and aspersions, up to that moment of making that terrible choice, he was a trauma filled BS. We have hundreds of threads that serve as a tragic window into how deep and disturbed and long enduring is the trauma from being betrayed and manipulated from a spouses infidelity. We are eager, and rightfully so, to comfort the BS relative to the insanity they will face and the almost impossible strengths it requires to even just stay functioning, during those first couple of years. We know the trauma inflicted by a selfish, cheating, manipulating WS is deep and real, which is nothing like the fake realities that a WS conjures up in their rewriting of the A.

There is never an excuse for cheating, as is the case with HO's now WS. But it is fair to acknowledge that the standard WS delusional reasons for cheating is a universe away from the reality shattering, deeply traumatic issues that HO's now WS was enduring when he made his equally wrong choice to cheat. Acknowledging it does not excuse him from being accountable for his bad choices.

A BS that becomes a WS often does so as a result of very deep, palpable injury and abuse from their WS....vs the often made up rewritten history of M problems used as a basis for justifying their abusers original infidelity.

Betraying and manipulating and cheating is always a bad choice and never justified. Having experienced the depth of pain and trauma and confusion and, quite literally, out of body torment from a cheating spouse leaves me without any sense of confusion or questions as to how he could do what he did. I don't excuse it in the least. I do understand it. No head shaking sense of how could he, from me. I would have to disregard my own pain and the pain poured out from hundreds of others to take the position that I could not possibly understand "how" the infidelity trauma and inflicted abuse he was subjected to could possibly result in his reactive choices. Terrible and damaging choices as they were. It is not incomprehensible. Just as we know why abused kids act out as they do, it does not excuse them from responsibility of their actions. Bad choices as a reaction to abuse is not incomprehensible to me. It almost seems reasonably expected. Not right. But abuse causes bad outcomes.

That takes nothing away from my genuine empathy I have for the pain HO must be experiencing. As a new BS, her pain is palpable and painful as any other BS. I know what you are feeling HO. It's hell to be cheated on.

Neanderthal posted 10/21/2020 10:21 AM

HO,

When I first came here, I went back and read everything your husband posted. I wanted what he had, I wanted that strength. To be "stoic". I was jealous of him. But that's on me, not him. I believe now he was just trying to convince himself of that narrative. Not to hurt or affect others here negatively.

He's a very broken man with little to no coping skills. That can and did lead to awful consequences. He's a WS, not much different from the rest of us. Definitely not worse.

I see you applying logic to his actions. I completely understand that. I was the same way. Unfortunately, understanding how something can occur, doesn't lessen the hurt it causes. In our cases it can actually make it worse. Cause we blame ourselves (at least partially). Remember you don't deserve this pain. No one does. Don't ever shy away from it or feel guilty for feeling it either (I'm still working on that myself).

Please find some IRL people to lean on. I know it's complicated with your past, as it was for me. They don't need to know all the details. They just need to know you need them. My sister was a rock for me, coworkers kept me from losing my job, friends offered a good meal. I needed all of them.

Something I never really could fully grasp from here is the old mantra: "Take what you need, and leave the rest". Hopefully you will have better luck with that. I felt the need to respond, defend or fight back against any perceived slight or inaccuracy.

Continue to treat the gashing wound caused by HIS infidelity. In time, everything else can be looked at.

Please take care of yourself.

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 10:41 AM

DIFM- thank you. You eloquently explained it well. Probably in a better way than I have presences of mine to do.

Itís difficult because my affair is a factor. Itís not an excuse, it doesnít circumvent anything. Itís just has a role in his state of mind at the time. Evaluating why he didnít choose to or couldnít cop differently is going to be important. I mean he did shit too in our marriage that contributed to my mindset when I cheated. It didnít excuse it but it had a place in my mindset.

Neandrathal- yep I just went down the same rabbithole and reread all of his posts. I recognize him in all of them. He lied about why he joined, he joined because he wanted to be here to deal with some of the situations if needed. I also think there was an extra heaping of guilt as his affair was starting to happen. His KISA kicked in about what bull crap was happening in here whilst he was getting ready or already was hurting me worse than anyone else could have.

There is one post that kills me, and it was his last one. That one was a bald faced lie in the aftermath of killing everything we worked for.

I am working on deciding about a support system. I canít tell my mom because she has no boundaries and will make this worse for me. She was one of my big abusers growing up and while our relationship is fine now I donít make myself vulnerable with her. My sister and I rarely communicate, we are pretty close to estranged. We text a few times a year but nothing substantial.

Being consumed all over again is just Not a welcome feeling.

[This message edited by hikingout at 10:45 AM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

Luna10 posted 10/21/2020 10:43 AM

It is clear in this thread that you are a loved poster HO.

It is also clear that you are currently experiencing the BS fog, the one that makes you repeat ďI know my spouse and you donítĒ. And thatís ok. I remember feeling so conflicted, at home I was looking at my WH next to me and wonder who he is. On SI I was defending him because ďyou donít know my husbandĒ.

Regardless of how that worked out for me (it turns out strangers knew my WH better than I, at least during those moments, go figure) I want you to know you are appreciated here and everyone wants to make sure you have all the tools you need to deal with this. I also realise that the fact TTP reads here makes your audience wider than it should be.

Take care of yourself. Try, if you can, to rest a lot, stay hydrated, let time do itís job and post any time you need someone to hear you out.

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 10:58 AM

I am not sure Luna. I know there is an evolution to this. I feel
Like I am trying to provide clarity. In many ways to everyone else our spouses, whether they are wayward or betrayed tend to take a two dimensional form in the forum. Colored only by our own perceptions and experiences.

I donít even feel like defending him. I just heard some things last night that may be ultimately the death knell to our marriage. But people do get certain things wrong.

At the same time, I know there is no way for me to have clarity right now. I do not feel like for the most part people are attacking him. I agree with hellfire they are protecting and defending me.

My father one time in the mines had a friend killed in front of him. A kettle bottom fell on his head. Dad went over and tried to remove it because his perception didnít allow him to see how large the kettle bottom was. It was as big as a small car. He couldnít see it because his brain was protecting him. So I do understand what you are saying. I too have felt sad or frustrated when someone couldnít see something in this forum. It is so obvious when you arenít connected to the three dimensional person and the three dimensional marriage.

But there is value in the boiling it down and being able to see it in the two dimensional way. It means you donít miss the Forrest for the trees. So we in this forum all have an important role. If I am In bs fog, that is easy to believe. Just less than two weeks ago I was a Ws. Hard to switch gears. Especially when you spend significant tome being compassionate and helping other wsís.

I donít discount what you say but I donít think there is anything I can do about it really either. I will protect myself. I do not trust him. I will probably insist on a ploy to know this is the only one. It bothers me he was so good at it. With mine the only reason he didnít figure it out was it was camouflaged in the nervous breakdown I was having. If that hadnít been going on anyone with half a brain would have spotted it a mike a way because I wasnít good at it. He was and my alarms go off there.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:00 AM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

tushnurse posted 10/21/2020 11:01 AM

((((HO))))

I haven't posted in this thread yet, but I want to add something that not has been mentioned much.

You are newly found BS. YOU need to be taking care of you first and foremost. That means making sure you are drinking plenty of water, eating an occasional meal, even if you don't feel like you can eat, at least getting some protein shakes down you. You need to be getting some good sleep too, and if you aren't you need to talk to your Dr.

Without going into my normal level of detail as a new BS you need to do 3 things.

1. Go to an attorney, and figure out what your rights are and his obligations and what D looks like for you. You cannot choose one path or another without an informed decision. Now that you are on the other side of this, you need to go w/ that mindset, not being willing to give away whatever d/t your actions.

2. Call your Dr. Get FULL STD testing. If you aren't sleeping or find eating difficult share that as well. Again, many of us benefit from medications to help us through this trauma.
Remember being a BS is an extremely traumatic event, and you cannot diminish that based on the fact that you were a WS at one point. You are effected just like any of the rest of us here.

3. Figure out what you want and need. Get an IC I think that will help you since you haven't shared any of this mess w/ anyone in your real life. A neutral 3rd party will be helpful for you. Remember you deserve love, respect, and honesty. Just like anyone else. In other words don't accept less than anyone deserves, just because you were once upon a time a WS as well. That's not ok. Don't martyr yourself. That's super unhealthy.

((((And Strength))))

DevastatedDee posted 10/21/2020 11:08 AM

I donít discount what you say but I donít think there is anything I can do about it really either. I will protect myself. I do not trust him. I will probably insist on a ploy to know this is the only one. It bothers me he was so good at it. With mine the only reason he didnít figure it out was it was camouflaged in the nervous breakdown I was having. If that hadnít been going on anyone with half a brain would have spotted it a mike a way because I wasnít good at it. He was and my alarms go off there.

Yes. I like reading this. Not because I like anything about this situation, but because this is about taking care of you and looking out for your safety.

I remember reading his posts and wondering if maybe he had something to hide himself that would explain why he was so "healed" compared to everyone else. Guess he did. I'm hoping it was just this one affair, but you are wise to question that. It fucking sucks, though. It's awful, this part where everything comes into question. But you need to know.

crazyblindsided posted 10/21/2020 11:54 AM

hikingout just wanted to chime in and say how much I admire you. I believe you are handling the aftermath better than most. I can see your compassion and empathy for both sides. I do hope that you focus on your self-care as well. Start to build your own support system of friends (my friends helped me get through the worst of it).

You are not reacting to any of this in any knee-jerk fashion and you are taking the time to process and observe your WS. Just don't be surprised when the anger hits. That was a REALLY hard emotion for me to process.

Chili posted 10/21/2020 12:08 PM

Hey Hiking Out - BS D/S forum label here so I don't post in Wayward often at all. But I wanted to pop on with a couple thoughts I often share with other BS here.

I'm a couple steps behind tush on the general idea, but I think (naturally) that you're spending an awful lot of time in *his* head right now. I get it - dissecting and putting the narrative together of "WTF just happened" and having it try to make sense. That's your brain's way of trying to order a trauma.

But - can you press the pause button at least for a few moments here and there and get into your own head?

You know none of this is going to be "figured out" in a day, so what can you do with each of those days to make sure you keep your mental and emotional health as strong as possible?

Another poster mentioned running. Some have recommended IC and finding a support group. But also allowing yourself to take off the weighted blanket you're dragging around and truly rest for a nap. Or turn on some good music, get lost in it and I don't know - re-paint a room. Slogging through to the other side of whatever-it's-going-to-be requires a shit-ton of self love and care.

You not giving it every nanosecond of your attention doesn't mean you're pretending it doesn't exist. But you do have to take breaks from the spinning or you risk falling right on your ass.

DIFM posted 10/21/2020 13:25 PM

There is one post that kills me, and it was his last one. That one was a bald faced lie in the aftermath of killing everything we worked for.

Just to keep in mind, your A was a bald face lie to him in killing you M. Yet, you were able to right that part of you that was able to rationalize that marriage lie. Perhaps he is capable of the same personal growth, mindfulness, and healing. Perhaps. Time will tell.

sisoon posted 10/21/2020 13:58 PM

I've heard from a few WSes who have made me rethink my recommendation to post in G and R.

Probably you will get more support as a BS by posting in WS.

*****

I'm concerned that forgiveness of the WS has come up. You can R without forgiving. You can D even if you forgive.

But my reco - which I can't see ever withdrawing - is keep forgiveness over on the side. It's neither here nor there. Really.

Forgiving yourself for being a BS is important for a lot of us, though.

*****

I urge you to follow tush's advice to the letter.

[This message edited by sisoon at 1:58 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 14:00 PM

Diff - No, in this case itís gets to stand alone and suck separately from my affair.

On the whole I can understand some of where he was if I am hearing the truth. At this point I donít know the truth. I can accept my affair precipitated his pain that may have *contributed* to him acting out. I stress contributes because there is a load of shit here that is completely on him.

Him keeping this from me for 18+ months and buying me an RV for a nee beginning with no confession and no resolution to his affair? No that part stands on him. It was a lie. And maybe one of the things that is hard to see lacking maliciousness. He had to know I was going to find out.

Whether he makes retributions and does work remains to be seen. But no I do t want to squash how I feel about the individual things he did everytime with my affair.

I will see it in the bigger picture but the pain is in the details.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:01 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

hikingout posted 10/21/2020 14:15 PM

Sisoon- I am glad others might see why I was hesitant to put this anywhere else.

I am not even thinking about forgiveness. I donít know I ever forgave myself either but that didnít stiop me from
Feeling like I had mostly healed in having compassion again for myself. This not being a new concept I see everything is really in the distance.

I have gotten a lot of advice about self care. I chuckle a little because I greet a lot of ws the same way. I have even given my h the speech. I Did make an IC appt. and I am thinking over the weekend I will make some tome and reach out to the person I have chosen to spill everything to. I havenít ran but I am starting to crave it.

I forgot to address what someone asked yesterday about me telling no one of my affair. The reasoning evolved over tome. H never said I couldnít tell but he didnít want our girls to know. I was ashamed for a while, but mostly I didnít feel the need. I did IC religiously and rattled On in here like a crazy person. I have it enough energy that I just didnít
Want to mess with trying to bring anyone on on it. Seeing how I think that was a mistake for my bs not to talk about it until our employees were the only ones, it just makes me know I need to get these things established.

Sometimes I am okay. Honestly as the ws I always knew that he could want to divorce over my affair. I feel like mentally I would go through what I would do and how I would be starting over. I donít know if that is normal. But I intermittently feel like I just donít want to go on without him itís overwhelming. But more often than not I feel like well this sucks but I have the resources to start over. Itís a hot/cold thing.

And in the aftermath of my affair I couldnít focus on anything. How I kept my job is anyoneís guess. I feel the opposite now. I would rather lose myself in working or getting other things done. I had trouble sleeping after my affair but other than some late night talks I have not. Not even when he was living in the camper.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:35 PM, October 21st (Wednesday)]

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